14:03:59 RRSAgent has joined #wpay 14:03:59 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-irc 14:04:01 present+ Ian 14:04:02 Present+ collier-matthew 14:04:11 present+ Zach 14:04:39 zakim, take up agendum 1 14:04:39 agendum 1. "Charter Update" taken up [from AdrianHB] 14:04:55 topic: Charter update 14:05:15 http://w3c.github.io/webpayments-ig/latest/charters/payments-wg-charter.html 14:05:31 AdrianHB, great comments thanks to those who took the time to review 14:05:42 I think I have responded to all comments, if not please advise 14:06:06 Please continue discussion re charter via mailing 14:06:19 we're on track to finish on schedule 14:06:52 AdrianHB, while ian was away, a copy was made from CVS to github 14:07:09 ChaoDuan has joined #wpay 14:07:09 Ian is linking to latest document 14:07:22 Ian will review latest drafts 14:07:54 AdrianHB, comments on roadmap, glossary and charter should have been received yesterday 14:08:29 Ian, was thrilled to excited to see lots of activity while on vacation 14:08:53 From minutes of meeting 13: 14:08:54 July 13th: All comments for use cases are due. 14:08:55 July 15th: Time stamped editor's draft of Use Cases. 14:08:55 All comments for Roadmap are due. 14:08:55 All comments for Glossary are due. 14:08:56 All comments for Web Payments Charter are due. 14:08:56 July 17th: Time stamped editor's draft of Roadmap. 14:08:56 Time stamped editor's draft of Glossary. 14:08:56 July 20th: Final draft of Web Payments Charter. 14:08:56 All comments for Capabilities are due. 14:08:56 July 27th: Time stamped editor's draft of Capabilities. 14:08:57 Aug 12th: FPWD of Capabilities. 14:09:21 AdrianHB, anyone who wants to comment any further? 14:09:32 AdrianHB, there have been many changes in the last few days. 14:09:40 http://w3c.github.io/webpayments-ig/latest/charters/payments-wg-charter.html 14:10:05 Ian, was there anything controversial that merits attention. 14:10:21 AdrianHB, I don't think so, but check the mailing list. 14:10:48 there is a request from mountie to include escrow use cases in charter. 14:10:57 mountie has submitted a draft use case 14:11:56 Ian, open question formalize a registration 14:12:04 AdrianHB, registration is now a requirement 14:12:15 DJackson has joined #wpay 14:12:22 AdrianHB, there are questions surrounding the use of the word 'wallet' 14:12:32 AdrianHB, not enough debate to hold up charter 14:12:47 AdrianHB, there will likely be further discussion about wallet terminology 14:13:05 Ian, if there is controversy around the definition... 14:13:29 Agreed with Adrian 14:13:45 AdrianHB, definition of wallet in the charter does not constrain 14:13:54 and should not constrain 14:14:16 Ian, language regarding wallet should not constrain the group. 14:14:44 -1 to its own section 14:14:45 AdrianHB, definition is in an aside now, with a definition that allows for expansion 14:15:12 From the charter: "This definition of wallet may expand in the future to include other items people find in physical wallets such as digital receipts and digital credentials. What the group defines today as a wallet service may in future offer new functionality that even makes the wallet metaphor entirely inappropriate. Therefor the label "wallet", while appropriate today, should not imply any limitation on the functionality that this service may be 14:15:12 expected to provide under future versions of any standards produced by the group." 14:15:19 Ian, minor objection to putting wallet in its own section 14:15:32 also, this breaks the charter template 14:15:47 no good reason to break the charter template 14:15:56 it's a matter of scope 14:16:17 AdrianHB, perhaps we can discuss this matter further when manu joins the call 14:16:26 IJ suggests putting back in scope (since about scope) with clear language about "not constraining" 14:16:45 IJ: Kudos to the group! 14:16:47 AdrianHB, my suggestion would be that Ian is the last person who needs to review latest drafts 14:17:07 AdrianHB, if no more questions, we can move on to next agenda item. 14:17:14 zakim take up next 14:17:20 zakim, take up next 14:17:20 agendum 2. "Use Cases" taken up [from AdrianHB] 14:17:32 topic: use cases 14:18:00 AdrianHB, asks ian if he has looked at latest draft of use cases 14:18:03 Ian, no 14:18:24 AdrianHB, manu has been working on use cases to incorporate comments from numerous sources 14:18:35 AdrianHB, use cases doc is looking good 14:18:52 AdrianHB, any discussion needed about use cases? 14:18:59 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/ED/use-cases/2015-07-15/index.html 14:19:30 AdrianHB, we were expecting to have all comments submitted by Monday. 14:19:37 q+ 14:19:46 ack ian 14:19:46 AdrianHB, working draft to be released next week. 14:20:01 Ian, one thing I think is missing is list of changes from previous draft 14:20:15 Ian, it might be useful to start a section to track changes 14:20:30 Ian, it would be nice for readers to see what has changed 14:20:38 AdrianHB, that came up on the charter as well 14:20:51 manu was going to help AdrianHB with a diff version 14:21:09 Ian, the diff tool is for people who saw the previous one 14:21:26 Ian, diff is only necessary if group feels like it is 14:21:41 Ian, we should document changes between working drafts 14:22:27 AdrianHB, if anyone wants to see changes on latest, changes were posted as separate commits 14:22:43 commits were made based on single suggestions 14:23:35 Ian, that document should allow you to generate a diff document that could be saved 14:24:00 AdrianHB, outstanding task for use cases is a set of changes since last working draft 14:24:19 action: Ian to request to Manu to create a diff document and summary of changes (appendix) 14:24:20 Created ACTION-128 - Request to manu to create a diff document and summary of changes (appendix) [on Ian Jacobs - due 2015-07-23]. 14:24:34 Ian, we have two things - a diff generated document, then a summary in the draft 14:25:31 AdrianHB, the use cases document in now closed for comment. 14:25:53 Ian, my expectation is that the document is available for the AC review. 14:25:57 which starts in August 14:26:20 topic: roadmap 14:26:32 AdrianHB, should we address this topic without manu on the call? 14:26:33 zakim, take up next 14:26:33 agendum 3. "Roadmap" taken up [from AdrianHB] 14:26:38 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/ED/roadmap/2015-07-17/index.html 14:27:00 AdrianHB, document now includes a diagram that was intended only for the mailing list 14:28:02 AdrianHB, I would like to think that what we have here is creating a high level flow of messages and messaging standard 14:28:07 that allows for new schemes 14:28:14 will not require payment network 14:28:28 will allow for an agnostic web payment scheme 14:28:40 Ian, what discussion has been happening regarding this? 14:28:50 q+ to ask about settlement CG 14:29:18 AdrianHB, community group has been created 14:29:38 q+ to say hi. 14:29:44 AdrianHB, group looks at payment schemes 14:30:03 AdrianHB, 'internet of value' community group 14:30:12 part is web settlement 14:30:38 my understanding is that interest group has broad view 14:30:54 this group is about flows 14:31:06 keeping it's eye on security and authentication 14:31:22 future work done by paments group would include work from credentials and security 14:31:43 comment was made that in the future it will be easier to re-charter in a year to increase scope 14:31:56 than to think about web-commerce working group 14:32:05 or chartering other new groups 14:32:06 ack Ian 14:32:06 Ian, you wanted to ask about settlement CG 14:32:21 Ian, I don't think it's off topic at all 14:32:28 you've helped me understand the roadmap 14:32:51 Ian, diagram description should set expectation that groups are much fuzzier than the first two 14:33:08 zkoch has left #wpay 14:33:11 Ian, I haven't read closely enough, I don't mind pictures shows a particular vision 14:33:23 but it should specify clearly the phases of development 14:33:37 Ian, i'm referring to the coordination picture 14:33:51 AdrianHB, that's the 4th iteration of Pat's picture 14:34:03 Ian, we need really clear status information about the groups. 14:34:14 manu, yes I agree with you Ian 14:34:25 manu, worked on showing status information 14:34:41 manu, we need to be clear about the status of the various groups 14:34:55 Ian, it could be something like 'now', 'future' 14:34:59 q+ to suggest using colour 14:35:04 ack manu 14:35:04 manu, you wanted to say hi. 14:35:07 Ian, it's nice to have a big picture 14:35:17 manu, the google doc is open 14:35:35 Ian, will be focusing on charter 14:35:44 manu, will update diagram 14:36:04 manu, where are we on the agenda? 14:36:20 Ian, summarizes meeting 14:37:12 manu, will work on the diff and changes discussed earlier in the meeting. 14:37:20 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/ED/use-cases/2015-07-15/diff-20150416.html 14:37:34 manu, I still need to add the summary of changes. 14:37:56 Ian, I don't have strong preference as to where changes are placed in the document. 14:38:02 ack AdrianHB 14:38:02 AdrianHB, you wanted to suggest using colour 14:38:33 AdrianHB, color could be used to indicate status of groups 14:38:43 regarding diagram 14:39:00 manu, will try implementing color in the diagram 14:39:09 stealing++ 14:39:27 manu, the three major changes to roadmap 14:39:32 terminology/glossary 14:39:49 we have a unified glossary now 14:39:52 thanks to shane 14:39:53 shaneM++ 14:40:05 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/ED/roadmap/2015-07-17/index.html#goals 14:40:17 coordination with the roadmap. 14:40:21 q+ 14:40:32 manu, it still needs some work 14:40:57 manu, has some questions for AdrianHB about the diagram. 14:41:15 AdrianHB, will make correction to diagram 14:41:26 AdrianHB, would appreciate comments about flow 14:41:35 q? 14:41:36 ack Ian 14:41:40 manu, hasn't reviewed closely 14:41:51 Ian, what is origin of diagram? 14:42:10 people want to know what's different and how it adds value. 14:42:36 q+ to say why one diagram is very useful over 4 ones for each flow (in the Roadmap document) 14:42:38 high level we're helping to integrate existing payment schemes into web and browsers. 14:43:04 Does diagram help illustrate what is missing today and what the new standards will add. 14:43:12 AdrianHB, we can annotate further. 14:43:32 yaso_ has joined #wpay 14:43:33 missing parts of the diagram: it's not obvious that messages are proxied via web API 14:43:59 as soon as we get into a lot of detail, it tends towards a single use case. 14:44:15 Ian, another way to comment... 14:45:06 Ian, the deliverable section of charter talks about 3 deliverables 14:45:29 is it possible to annotate diagram so that it illustrates what wp 1.0 will deliver 14:45:53 diagram should illustrate what is new, and how it's a benefit 14:46:25 AdrianHB, we wanted to accomodate use cases where the user agent is not a browser, possibly web based. 14:46:45 it may not be easy to indicate where APIs exist 14:46:53 Ian, it's a question that will come up 14:47:04 we may want additional diagrams for more specific cases 14:47:23 in use cases document, there are more specific flows 14:47:48 possibly having additional diagrams for use cases 14:47:58 q? 14:48:04 yaso_ are you here? 14:48:04 AdrianHB, is happy to work with Ian on diagrams 14:48:18 Ian, yaso is working on diagrams 14:48:29 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/track/actions/113 14:48:32 Ian, she has action 113 14:48:45 she is supposed to organize a flow diagram 14:48:51 ack manu 14:48:51 manu, you wanted to say why one diagram is very useful over 4 ones for each flow (in the Roadmap document) 14:49:05 manu, responding to Ian's comments 14:49:17 manu, I chose this diagram because it's high level 14:49:26 answers questions about the overall flow in a simple way 14:49:53 we may want to have another diagram illustrating the deliverables 14:50:26 manu if we can share diagrams that would be good 14:50:46 manu, simplifying the diagram further would be good 14:51:07 dezell has joined #wpay 14:51:10 +1 to phases 14:51:11 manu, 'version' has been replaced with 'phases' 14:51:25 section 4.2 and 4.3 did not change 14:51:33 not sure what to do about capabilities document 14:51:38 it will not be complete 14:51:43 q+ 14:51:44 before roadmap 14:52:24 at end is an informative reference 14:52:33 for cross-referencing documents 14:52:53 ack Ian 14:53:00 manu, the main question is... capabilities needs work, what do we want to do with the capabilities section? 14:53:35 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/ED/roadmap/use-cases/index.html#uc-website 14:54:17 Ian, the capabilities document... 14:54:22 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/latest/capabilities/index.html 14:54:42 one thing I recall is the relationship with other docs section 14:54:52 should the roadmap have that section as well? 14:55:11 these are materials we're presenting to AC 14:55:19 here's a vision, roadmap, use cases. 14:55:40 the capabilities work is ongoing 14:56:20 capabilities may not need to be in the roadmap 14:56:30 capabilities feel like implementation 14:56:40 +1 for taking out capabilities 14:56:43 roadmap is about 'what', not 'how' 14:56:52 +1 to take out capabilities out of Roadmap 14:57:00 if someone would like to know 'how' they can review capabilities document. 14:57:17 manu, I think the text could be improved 14:58:21 Proposed /Payments/Roadmap with Editor's Draft look 14:58:38 manu, how should doc be styled 14:58:43 Ian, as an editors draft 14:59:10 Ian, one thing I wanted to do was add vision link to IG homepage 14:59:34 manu, in the next week... 14:59:41 we still need an updated working draft 15:00:06 Ian, chairs can say we would like to publish draft on a particular date. 15:00:21 manu, roadmap will be placed into payments IG, along with vision. 15:00:38 manu, what's going on with the charter? 15:00:50 Ian, is going to be reviewing recent work today... 15:01:00 +1 to Ian 15:01:38 manu, re wallet, did not intend for wallet to be moved out. 15:01:57 AdrianHB, the wallet can go wherever Ian recommends 15:02:14 Ian, will copy github version for management team. 15:02:33 AdrianHB, the only outstanding item for the charter is to incorporate final comments from mountie 15:02:57 q+ to request any agenda feedback for Monday's telcon. 15:03:03 Ian, I will wait until Monday to send anything to management team. 15:03:11 ack dezell 15:03:11 dezell, you wanted to request any agenda feedback for Monday's telcon. 15:03:34 dezell, I want to put marker down for feedback 15:03:44 thanks to the team 15:04:06 manu, do we need another call tomorrow or better to sync offline? 15:05:07 rrsagent, make minutes 15:05:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html Ian 15:05:10 rrsagent, set logs team 15:05:13 Present+ DavidE 15:05:16 rrsagent, set logs member 15:05:26 rrsagent, make logs public 15:05:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:05:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:05:47 Present+ MattCollier 15:05:49 Present+ Ian 15:05:53 Present+ Adrian 15:05:55 Present+ Manu 15:06:02 Present+ Zach 15:06:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:06:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:06:40 those are the folks I'm aware of 15:06:49 s/those are the folks I'm aware of// 15:09:39 Arie 15:09:49 Present+ Arie 15:10:06 yew 15:10:26 yes 15:10:33 just reading up on the notes 15:14:24 meeting: Web Payments Interest Group Use Cases Task Force 15:14:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:14:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html collier-matthew 15:14:38 ShaneM has joined #wpay 15:14:55 chaals has joined #wpay 15:16:15 present- collier-matthew 15:16:19 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:16:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:17:36 chair: Everyone 15:18:33 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:18:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html collier-matthew 15:19:35 s/AdrianHB, /AdrianHB: /g 15:20:17 s/Ian, /Ian: /g 15:20:19 s/manu, /manu: /g 15:20:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:20:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:20:42 s/dezell, /dezell: /g 15:21:46 s/I think I have/... I think I have/ 15:21:58 s/Please continue discussion/... Please continue discussion/ 15:22:06 s/we're on track/... we're on track/ 15:22:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:22:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:24:37 s/Arie// 15:25:32 s/yew// 15:26:09 s/yes// 15:26:20 s/just reading up on the notes// 15:26:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:26:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html collier-matthew 15:27:27 s/Arie// 15:27:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:27:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:28:14 s/topic: roadmap/Topic: Roadmap/ 15:28:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:28:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:29:40 rrsagent, bye 15:29:40 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-actions.rdf : 15:29:40 ACTION: Ian to request to Manu to create a diff document and summary of changes (appendix) [1] 15:29:40 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/16-wpay-irc#T14-24-19