16:26:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:26:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-irc
16:26:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:26:33 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
16:26:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:26:35 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
16:26:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:26:36 <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015
16:26:44 <janina> present+ Janina
16:30:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aria
16:31:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
16:31:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
16:31:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
16:31:36 <clown> clown has joined #aria
16:32:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0016.html
16:33:36 <Stefasn> Stefasn has joined #aria
16:33:55 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
16:34:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:35:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Joanie_Diggs
16:37:03 <Stefasn> present+ STefan_Schnabel
16:37:20 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC
16:37:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Janina
16:39:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
16:40:21 <janina> scribe: janina
16:40:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer
16:40:53 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0181.html
16:40:54 <janina> action-1493?
16:40:54 <trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
16:40:54 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
16:41:21 <janina> rs: I see no issues with your text, Joseph
16:41:44 <janina> js: I was asked to add to Sec 7.6 attrib processing
16:41:51 <janina> js: Discussed Mar 26
16:42:10 <janina> js: Aslo what to do for default values
16:42:18 <janina> js: Email for review out Monday
16:42:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#state_property_processing
16:42:28 <janina> js: Only one response
16:43:00 <janina> rs: Anyone not looked at this? Please do see now
16:43:12 <janina> s/see/so/
16:43:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Bryan
16:44:25 <janina> rs: Any objections?
16:44:48 <janina> RESOLUTION: Adopt Joseph's proposal for Action-1493
16:45:11 <janina> rs: Did you change other things, too? Slider?
16:45:39 <janina> js: ARIA- values are required on sliders, spin button ...
16:45:41 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#slider
16:46:18 <janina> js: summarizes changes ....
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16:46:51 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
16:47:01 <janina> rs: Is there text in Core for this?
16:47:05 <janina> js: Will be fixing
16:47:20 <janina> js: Author Errors sec has values, but needs updating
16:47:48 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
16:48:10 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:48:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html jamesn
16:48:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and Slider to update author error section for default values
16:48:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1670 - Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and slider to update author error section for default values [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
16:48:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1670?
16:48:59 <trackbot> Action-1670 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and slider to update author error section for default values -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN
16:48:59 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1670
16:49:02 <MichaelC> present+ JamesN
16:49:39 <janina> jn: What about infinitely scrollable?
16:49:57 <janina> js: Listed as required state --
16:50:21 <janina> js: This is already in ARIA-1.0
16:50:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action-1493?
16:50:45 <trackbot> Action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
16:50:45 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
16:52:31 <jamesn> ISSUE: need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown value for aria-valuemax
16:52:31 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-718 - Need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown value for aria-valuemax.  Please complete additional details at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/718/edit>.
16:52:56 <janina> mc: Do we need Joanie to do the merge? What about Joseph?
16:52:58 <janina> js: Sure
16:53:10 <janina> js: Slight chance not by Monday
16:53:49 <jamesn> fyi I just updated issue-718 I just logged to ARIA 2.0
16:53:52 <janina> mc: If Monday, that's OK, but need to know if issue
16:54:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1606
16:54:39 <janina> RESOLUTION: Close Action-1606
16:55:17 <janina> js: Note new Issue 718
16:55:47 <janina> jd: Don't think it needs unknown max, just that the max keeps changing
16:55:53 <janina> jd: But I always think desktop
16:56:15 <janina> jn: That may indeed be OK
16:56:27 <janina> jn: And we simply need to document that
16:56:56 <janina> action-1591?
16:56:56 <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:56:56 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591
16:56:59 <clown> action-1591?
16:56:59 <trackbot> action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:56:59 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591
16:57:23 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0177.html
16:57:34 <janina> jd: Believe I have this in a branch, but no responses
16:57:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#aria-readonly
16:59:33 <janina> jd: Believe I changed some inheritance
17:00:11 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#radio
17:01:24 <janina> rs: Looks fine. Any issues?
17:02:27 <janina> jd: Asking to re-consider inheritance ...
17:02:32 <janina> rs: Should be a separate Action
17:02:53 <janina> jd: Would think it useful for the heartbeat
17:02:57 <janina> rs: Won't have time to review
17:03:26 <janina> rs: We need to review it separately. Can we tie to Action?
17:03:29 <janina> jd: Yes, will do
17:04:25 <janina> RESOLUTION: Action 1591 is complete
17:05:16 <janina> topic: Switch Role ...
17:05:39 <janina> jd: I believe Alex was asking for string substitution ...
17:06:17 <janina> rs: So, no resolution yet ...
17:07:42 <janina> rs: Should state mixed value is invalid and will default to false
17:07:53 <janina> rs: Then we flag in test tools
17:08:29 <janina> rs: Current text says "not supported," but should say "invalid"
17:11:38 <richardschwerdtfeger>  RESOLUTION:
17:11:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> Change this text:
17:11:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is not supported, and user agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for this role.
17:11:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> To:
17:11:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> The mixed value is invalid, and user agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for this role.
17:12:21 <janina> Action-1592?
17:12:21 <trackbot> Action-1592 -- Joanmarie Diggs to switch role shouldn't say about mixed value mapping. -- due 2015-03-04 -- OPEN
17:12:21 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1592
17:12:42 <janina> Also has associated Issue
17:13:10 <janina> scribe note: Above ediscussion is on this action-1592
17:15:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Joseph address error handling in aria-checked with a value of “mixed” for a switch role
17:15:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1671 - Address error handling in aria-checked with a value of “mixed” for a switch role [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
17:17:17 <janina> rs: Anything with localized role description?
17:17:21 <janina> jd: Believe pending review
17:17:27 <janina> topic: Action-1417
17:17:55 <janina> RESOLUTION: Action-1417 is complete and also close Issue-636
17:18:56 <janina> issue-171?
17:18:57 <trackbot> issue-171 -- Menu discuss separator and group -- closed
17:18:57 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/171
17:19:05 <janina> oops
17:19:05 <clown> issue=717
17:19:09 <janina> topic: issue-717?
17:19:14 <janina> issue-717?
17:19:14 <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and aria-dropeffect? -- open
17:19:14 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717
17:19:15 <clown> issue-717
17:19:15 <trackbot> issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and aria-dropeffect? -- open
17:19:15 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717
17:19:59 <janina> rs: Used for GWT
17:20:10 <janina> rs: Should we deprecate?
17:21:26 <janina> js: Also Fluid, but only in demos
17:21:38 <janina> js: Also GPII ...
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17:24:57 <janina> See new Issue-719
17:24:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/719
17:26:47 <clown> FYI:  http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaGrabbedTrue
17:27:59 <janina> jd: Shouldn't we also deprecate presentation role?
17:28:06 <janina> rs: Indeed!
17:28:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and provide  reference definition of derprecated
17:28:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1672 - Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and provide  reference definition of derprecated [on Michael Cooper - due 2015-07-09].
17:28:51 <janina> jn: Why deprecate presentation?
17:29:04 <janina> jn: Are we ever dropping support for it?
17:29:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> action-1672?
17:29:07 <trackbot> action-1672 -- Michael Cooper to Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and provide reference definition of derprecated -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN
17:29:07 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1672
17:30:10 <janina> jn: Concern on retro support for none ... still advise presentation
17:31:59 <janina> General concern that "presentation" is far too widely used
17:32:09 <janina> mc: So, perhaps an issue to consider during 2.0?
17:35:08 <clown> issue-683
17:35:08 <trackbot> issue-683 -- The aria-level attribute is not required for role=heading within the spec, but should be. -- open
17:35:08 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/683
17:35:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute for
17:35:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> role="heading". Also discuss values of "auto" and "subsection".
17:36:12 <janina> rs: Not complete consensus, but ...
17:36:37 <janina> jn: Agree that's the consensus, even though I don't participate in it!
17:37:24 <janina> rs: auto and subsection values, would 2.0 be soone enough?
17:37:32 <janina> mc: Yes
17:37:51 <clown> q+ to point out that if aria-level is a required property for role heading, then heading role needs a "implicit value for role" entry.
17:38:47 <janina> RESOLUTION: ARIA-LEVEL is required for role=heading
17:38:59 <jnurthen> just for the minutes - I still disagree with this but accept the consensus opinion
17:39:26 <janina> rs: Proposing to add Issue for auto and subsection for 2.0
17:39:44 <Stefasn> I agree
17:40:40 <janina> New issue-721
17:41:40 <janina> jd: Notes that we need default value -- consensus seemed to be thatit's "2"
17:42:00 <janina> rs: Can we live with that?
17:42:07 <janina> [no objection]
17:43:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: aria-level defaults to a value of “2” for role=“heading”
17:43:15 <janina> RESOLUTION: ARIA-Level defaults to value of 2 for role=heading
17:43:38 <janina> action-1657?
17:43:38 <trackbot> action-1657 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Make aria-level a required attribute for role=“heading” -- due 2015-06-25 -- OPEN
17:43:38 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1657
17:44:01 <janina> rs: Updating the action
17:45:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to handle the error condition of when aria-level is not present for role “heading” and it defaults to “2”
17:45:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1673 - Modify the core mapping spec. to handle the error condition of when aria-level is not present for role “heading” and it defaults to “2” [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
17:46:58 <janina> topic: aria-uinvalid issue-651
17:47:00 <janina> issue-651?
17:47:00 <trackbot> issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types of errors including custom errors -- raised
17:47:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651
17:47:36 <janina> rs: need to treat error differently from help
17:47:52 <janina> rs: also want to categorize importance
17:48:23 <janina> rs: we could mark role=error and provide importance level ... one proposal
17:48:31 <janina> jd: don't believe this needs to be complicated
17:48:48 <janina> jd: aria-invalid is currently string
17:49:02 <janina> jd: require that author needs to localize whatever they put ...
17:49:04 <janina> rs: not a string
17:49:14 <janina> js: tokenized
17:49:25 <janina> js: value outsied of tokens mapps to "true"
17:49:31 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaInvalidUnknown
17:50:08 <janina> jd: I propose "pass it along," screen reader will speak it
17:50:32 <janina> js: 1.0 sayse "expose as given"
17:50:39 <janina> js: jc said can't do
17:51:13 <janina> rs: aren't we trying to overload this?
17:51:23 <janina> rs: point is to show the actual message, whatever it is
17:51:56 <janina> rs: so another relationship? another role?
17:52:08 <janina> rs: could have importance levels
17:52:17 <janina> rs: could be live region ... another approach
17:52:20 <janina> jd: like live
17:52:26 <janina> jd: but still thinking
17:53:14 <janina> rs: live has polite, assertive, off. is that enough?
17:54:31 <janina> rs: Thoughts?
17:54:51 <Stefasn> Don't mix things
17:54:51 <janina> js: cool with aria-error to point to it
17:55:01 <janina> rs: should they be live regions?
17:55:08 <janina> js: do they come and go?
17:55:13 <janina> rs: live not necessarily
17:56:45 <janina> rs: option is to put a proposl on list for further consideration
17:57:37 <janina> rs: certainly errors should be announced
17:57:51 <janina> jn: but necessarily always
17:58:02 <janina> s/but/but not/
17:58:18 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-live
18:01:37 <janina> jd: Like the live region, but concerned how connected
18:02:26 <janina> rs: We're proposing an area where errors are presented, and this area is live region
18:03:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Rich Write proposal to the list for error message referencs to live region
18:03:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1674 - Write proposal to the list for error message referencs to live region [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-07-09].
18:04:11 <janina> zakim, bye
18:04:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
18:04:15 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
18:04:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html janina
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