IRC log of aria on 2015-07-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:26:31 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria
- 16:26:31 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-irc
- 16:26:33 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 16:26:33 [Zakim]
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- Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
- 16:26:35 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 16:26:36 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
- 16:26:36 [trackbot]
- Date: 02 July 2015
- 16:26:44 [janina]
- present+ Janina
- 16:30:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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- 16:31:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- chair: Rich
- 16:31:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
- 16:31:23 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 16:31:36 [clown]
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- 16:32:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jul/0016.html
- 16:33:36 [Stefasn]
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- 16:33:55 [clown]
- present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 16:34:07 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 16:35:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- present+ Joanie_Diggs
- 16:37:03 [Stefasn]
- present+ STefan_Schnabel
- 16:37:20 [MichaelC]
- present+ MichaelC
- 16:37:22 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- present+ Janina
- 16:39:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- q?
- 16:40:21 [janina]
- scribe: janina
- 16:40:31 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Topic: Action 1493 and 1606 Joseph Scheumammer
- 16:40:53 [clown]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0181.html
- 16:40:54 [janina]
- action-1493?
- 16:40:54 [trackbot]
- action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
- 16:40:54 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
- 16:41:21 [janina]
- rs: I see no issues with your text, Joseph
- 16:41:44 [janina]
- js: I was asked to add to Sec 7.6 attrib processing
- 16:41:51 [janina]
- js: Discussed Mar 26
- 16:42:10 [janina]
- js: Aslo what to do for default values
- 16:42:18 [janina]
- js: Email for review out Monday
- 16:42:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#state_property_processing
- 16:42:28 [janina]
- js: Only one response
- 16:43:00 [janina]
- rs: Anyone not looked at this? Please do see now
- 16:43:12 [janina]
- s/see/so/
- 16:43:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- present+ Bryan
- 16:44:25 [janina]
- rs: Any objections?
- 16:44:48 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Adopt Joseph's proposal for Action-1493
- 16:45:11 [janina]
- rs: Did you change other things, too? Slider?
- 16:45:39 [janina]
- js: ARIA- values are required on sliders, spin button ...
- 16:45:41 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1493/aria/aria.html#slider
- 16:46:18 [janina]
- js: summarizes changes ....
- 16:46:26 [bgaraventa1979]
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- present+ Bryan_Garaventa
- 16:47:01 [janina]
- rs: Is there text in Core for this?
- 16:47:05 [janina]
- js: Will be fixing
- 16:47:20 [janina]
- js: Author Errors sec has values, but needs updating
- 16:47:48 [jamesn]
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- 16:48:10 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
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- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html jamesn
- 16:48:45 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action: Joseph modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and Slider to update author error section for default values
- 16:48:45 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1670 - Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and slider to update author error section for default values [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
- 16:48:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action-1670?
- 16:48:59 [trackbot]
- Action-1670 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify, scrollbar, spinbutton and slider to update author error section for default values -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN
- 16:48:59 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1670
- 16:49:02 [MichaelC]
- present+ JamesN
- 16:49:39 [janina]
- jn: What about infinitely scrollable?
- 16:49:57 [janina]
- js: Listed as required state --
- 16:50:21 [janina]
- js: This is already in ARIA-1.0
- 16:50:45 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action-1493?
- 16:50:45 [trackbot]
- Action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
- 16:50:45 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
- 16:52:31 [jamesn]
- ISSUE: need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown value for aria-valuemax
- 16:52:31 [trackbot]
- Created ISSUE-718 - Need to allow scrollbars to specify an unknown value for aria-valuemax. Please complete additional details at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/718/edit>.
- 16:52:56 [janina]
- mc: Do we need Joanie to do the merge? What about Joseph?
- 16:52:58 [janina]
- js: Sure
- 16:53:10 [janina]
- js: Slight chance not by Monday
- 16:53:49 [jamesn]
- fyi I just updated issue-718 I just logged to ARIA 2.0
- 16:53:52 [janina]
- mc: If Monday, that's OK, but need to know if issue
- 16:54:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1606
- 16:54:39 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Close Action-1606
- 16:55:17 [janina]
- js: Note new Issue 718
- 16:55:47 [janina]
- jd: Don't think it needs unknown max, just that the max keeps changing
- 16:55:53 [janina]
- jd: But I always think desktop
- 16:56:15 [janina]
- jn: That may indeed be OK
- 16:56:27 [janina]
- jn: And we simply need to document that
- 16:56:56 [janina]
- action-1591?
- 16:56:56 [trackbot]
- action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 16:56:56 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591
- 16:56:59 [clown]
- action-1591?
- 16:56:59 [trackbot]
- action-1591 -- Joanmarie Diggs to checkbox role doesn't list aria-readonly -- due 2015-03-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 16:56:59 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1591
- 16:57:23 [clown]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jun/0177.html
- 16:57:34 [janina]
- jd: Believe I have this in a branch, but no responses
- 16:57:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#aria-readonly
- 16:59:33 [janina]
- jd: Believe I changed some inheritance
- 17:00:11 [clown]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-1591/aria/aria.html#radio
- 17:01:24 [janina]
- rs: Looks fine. Any issues?
- 17:02:27 [janina]
- jd: Asking to re-consider inheritance ...
- 17:02:32 [janina]
- rs: Should be a separate Action
- 17:02:53 [janina]
- jd: Would think it useful for the heartbeat
- 17:02:57 [janina]
- rs: Won't have time to review
- 17:03:26 [janina]
- rs: We need to review it separately. Can we tie to Action?
- 17:03:29 [janina]
- jd: Yes, will do
- 17:04:25 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Action 1591 is complete
- 17:05:16 [janina]
- topic: Switch Role ...
- 17:05:39 [janina]
- jd: I believe Alex was asking for string substitution ...
- 17:06:17 [janina]
- rs: So, no resolution yet ...
- 17:07:42 [janina]
- rs: Should state mixed value is invalid and will default to false
- 17:07:53 [janina]
- rs: Then we flag in test tools
- 17:08:29 [janina]
- rs: Current text says "not supported," but should say "invalid"
- 17:11:38 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RESOLUTION:
- 17:11:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Change this text:
- 17:11:40 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- The mixed value is not supported, and user agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for this role.
- 17:11:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- To:
- 17:11:42 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- The mixed value is invalid, and user agents MUST treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for this role.
- 17:12:21 [janina]
- Action-1592?
- 17:12:21 [trackbot]
- Action-1592 -- Joanmarie Diggs to switch role shouldn't say about mixed value mapping. -- due 2015-03-04 -- OPEN
- 17:12:21 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1592
- 17:12:42 [janina]
- Also has associated Issue
- 17:13:10 [janina]
- scribe note: Above ediscussion is on this action-1592
- 17:15:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action: Joseph address error handling in aria-checked with a value of “mixed” for a switch role
- 17:15:40 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1671 - Address error handling in aria-checked with a value of “mixed” for a switch role [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
- 17:17:17 [janina]
- rs: Anything with localized role description?
- 17:17:21 [janina]
- jd: Believe pending review
- 17:17:27 [janina]
- topic: Action-1417
- 17:17:55 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: Action-1417 is complete and also close Issue-636
- 17:18:56 [janina]
- issue-171?
- 17:18:57 [trackbot]
- issue-171 -- Menu discuss separator and group -- closed
- 17:18:57 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/171
- 17:19:05 [janina]
- oops
- 17:19:05 [clown]
- issue=717
- 17:19:09 [janina]
- topic: issue-717?
- 17:19:14 [janina]
- issue-717?
- 17:19:14 [trackbot]
- issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and aria-dropeffect? -- open
- 17:19:14 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717
- 17:19:15 [clown]
- issue-717
- 17:19:15 [trackbot]
- issue-717 -- Should we deprecate aria-grabbed and aria-dropeffect? -- open
- 17:19:15 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/717
- 17:19:59 [janina]
- rs: Used for GWT
- 17:20:10 [janina]
- rs: Should we deprecate?
- 17:21:26 [janina]
- js: Also Fluid, but only in demos
- 17:21:38 [janina]
- js: Also GPII ...
- 17:21:43 [jnurthen]
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- 17:24:57 [janina]
- See new Issue-719
- 17:24:57 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/719
- 17:26:47 [clown]
- FYI: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaGrabbedTrue
- 17:27:59 [janina]
- jd: Shouldn't we also deprecate presentation role?
- 17:28:06 [janina]
- rs: Indeed!
- 17:28:18 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action: Michael Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and provide reference definition of derprecated
- 17:28:19 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1672 - Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and provide reference definition of derprecated [on Michael Cooper - due 2015-07-09].
- 17:28:51 [janina]
- jn: Why deprecate presentation?
- 17:29:04 [janina]
- jn: Are we ever dropping support for it?
- 17:29:07 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- action-1672?
- 17:29:07 [trackbot]
- action-1672 -- Michael Cooper to Mark aria-grabbed, aria-dropeffect, and the presentation role as deprecated and provide reference definition of derprecated -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN
- 17:29:07 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1672
- 17:30:10 [janina]
- jn: Concern on retro support for none ... still advise presentation
- 17:31:59 [janina]
- General concern that "presentation" is far too widely used
- 17:32:09 [janina]
- mc: So, perhaps an issue to consider during 2.0?
- 17:35:08 [clown]
- issue-683
- 17:35:08 [trackbot]
- issue-683 -- The aria-level attribute is not required for role=heading within the spec, but should be. -- open
- 17:35:08 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/683
- 17:35:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Topic: ssue 683, 689, 655, 670 Make aria-level a required attribute for
- 17:35:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- role="heading". Also discuss values of "auto" and "subsection".
- 17:36:12 [janina]
- rs: Not complete consensus, but ...
- 17:36:37 [janina]
- jn: Agree that's the consensus, even though I don't participate in it!
- 17:37:24 [janina]
- rs: auto and subsection values, would 2.0 be soone enough?
- 17:37:32 [janina]
- mc: Yes
- 17:37:51 [clown]
- q+ to point out that if aria-level is a required property for role heading, then heading role needs a "implicit value for role" entry.
- 17:38:47 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: ARIA-LEVEL is required for role=heading
- 17:38:59 [jnurthen]
- just for the minutes - I still disagree with this but accept the consensus opinion
- 17:39:26 [janina]
- rs: Proposing to add Issue for auto and subsection for 2.0
- 17:39:44 [Stefasn]
- I agree
- 17:40:40 [janina]
- New issue-721
- 17:41:40 [janina]
- jd: Notes that we need default value -- consensus seemed to be thatit's "2"
- 17:42:00 [janina]
- rs: Can we live with that?
- 17:42:07 [janina]
- [no objection]
- 17:43:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RESOLUTION: aria-level defaults to a value of “2” for role=“heading”
- 17:43:15 [janina]
- RESOLUTION: ARIA-Level defaults to value of 2 for role=heading
- 17:43:38 [janina]
- action-1657?
- 17:43:38 [trackbot]
- action-1657 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Make aria-level a required attribute for role=“heading” -- due 2015-06-25 -- OPEN
- 17:43:38 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1657
- 17:44:01 [janina]
- rs: Updating the action
- 17:45:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action: Joseph modify the Core mapping spec. to handle the error condition of when aria-level is not present for role “heading” and it defaults to “2”
- 17:45:37 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1673 - Modify the core mapping spec. to handle the error condition of when aria-level is not present for role “heading” and it defaults to “2” [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-09].
- 17:46:58 [janina]
- topic: aria-uinvalid issue-651
- 17:47:00 [janina]
- issue-651?
- 17:47:00 [trackbot]
- issue-651 -- Allow aria-invalid to specify more types of errors including custom errors -- raised
- 17:47:00 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/651
- 17:47:36 [janina]
- rs: need to treat error differently from help
- 17:47:52 [janina]
- rs: also want to categorize importance
- 17:48:23 [janina]
- rs: we could mark role=error and provide importance level ... one proposal
- 17:48:31 [janina]
- jd: don't believe this needs to be complicated
- 17:48:48 [janina]
- jd: aria-invalid is currently string
- 17:49:02 [janina]
- jd: require that author needs to localize whatever they put ...
- 17:49:04 [janina]
- rs: not a string
- 17:49:14 [janina]
- js: tokenized
- 17:49:25 [janina]
- js: value outsied of tokens mapps to "true"
- 17:49:31 [clown]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaInvalidUnknown
- 17:50:08 [janina]
- jd: I propose "pass it along," screen reader will speak it
- 17:50:32 [janina]
- js: 1.0 sayse "expose as given"
- 17:50:39 [janina]
- js: jc said can't do
- 17:51:13 [janina]
- rs: aren't we trying to overload this?
- 17:51:23 [janina]
- rs: point is to show the actual message, whatever it is
- 17:51:56 [janina]
- rs: so another relationship? another role?
- 17:52:08 [janina]
- rs: could have importance levels
- 17:52:17 [janina]
- rs: could be live region ... another approach
- 17:52:20 [janina]
- jd: like live
- 17:52:26 [janina]
- jd: but still thinking
- 17:53:14 [janina]
- rs: live has polite, assertive, off. is that enough?
- 17:54:31 [janina]
- rs: Thoughts?
- 17:54:51 [Stefasn]
- Don't mix things
- 17:54:51 [janina]
- js: cool with aria-error to point to it
- 17:55:01 [janina]
- rs: should they be live regions?
- 17:55:08 [janina]
- js: do they come and go?
- 17:55:13 [janina]
- rs: live not necessarily
- 17:56:45 [janina]
- rs: option is to put a proposl on list for further consideration
- 17:57:37 [janina]
- rs: certainly errors should be announced
- 17:57:51 [janina]
- jn: but necessarily always
- 17:58:02 [janina]
- s/but/but not/
- 17:58:18 [clown]
- http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-live
- 18:01:37 [janina]
- jd: Like the live region, but concerned how connected
- 18:02:26 [janina]
- rs: We're proposing an area where errors are presented, and this area is live region
- 18:03:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action: Rich Write proposal to the list for error message referencs to live region
- 18:03:39 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1674 - Write proposal to the list for error message referencs to live region [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-07-09].
- 18:04:11 [janina]
- zakim, bye
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- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:04:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-aria-minutes.html janina
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