IRC log of svg-a11y on 2015-06-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 12:55:56 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #svg-a11y
- 12:55:56 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-svg-a11y-irc
- 12:55:58 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 12:55:58 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #svg-a11y
- 12:56:00 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
- 12:56:00 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 12:56:00 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- chair: Rich
- 12:56:01 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
- 12:56:01 [trackbot]
- Date: 19 June 2015
- 12:56:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- chair: Fred
- 12:56:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Meeting: SVG Accessibility Task Force
- 12:57:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 12:58:15 [LJWatson]
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- 13:01:55 [fesch]
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- 13:06:34 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/access.html
- 13:10:32 [shepazu]
- https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m2f65b5e71b964e48bd1274721ab964e6
- 13:11:11 [fesch]
- Supports the ‘a’ element, enablign authors to supply the link purpose both from its content.
- 13:12:10 [fesch]
- zakim, who's here?
- 13:12:10 [Zakim]
- sorry, fesch, I don't know what conference this is
- 13:12:12 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see fesch, LJWatson, Zakim, RRSAgent, richardschwerdtfeger, Tav, chaals, shepazu, MichaelC, nikos, trackbot
- 13:12:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- present+ Rich
- 13:12:38 [chaals]
- Present+ chaals
- 13:12:48 [fesch]
- present+ Fred
- 13:13:07 [chaals]
- Present+ Jason
- 13:13:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/access.html
- 13:15:01 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- scribenick: Rich
- 13:15:47 [chaals]
- q+
- 13:15:48 [fesch]
- Topic: Actions
- 13:15:54 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- q?
- 13:16:32 [chaals]
- action-1589?
- 13:16:32 [trackbot]
- action-1589 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update the accessibility appendix in the main svg specs, to link back to the relevant content -- due 2015-02-27 -- OPEN
- 13:16:32 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1589
- 13:16:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Topic: Action 1589
- 13:16:37 [jasonjgw]
- jasonjgw has joined #svg-a11y
- 13:16:47 [chaals]
- close action-1589
- 13:16:47 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1589.
- 13:17:10 [chaals]
- action-1600
- 13:17:10 [trackbot]
- action-1600 -- Léonie Watson to Get with doug to build a starting navigation strategy for charts -- due 2015-03-27 -- OPEN
- 13:17:10 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1600
- 13:17:31 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- fred: Start doing a navigation strategy for charts
- 13:17:35 [chaals]
- action-1600 due in 3 weeks
- 13:17:35 [trackbot]
- Set action-1600 Get with doug to build a starting navigation strategy for charts due date to 2015-07-10.
- 13:18:10 [chaals]
- action-1602?
- 13:18:10 [trackbot]
- action-1602 -- Jason White to Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases -- due 2015-03-27 -- OPEN
- 13:18:10 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1602
- 13:18:29 [chaals]
- assign action-1602 to chaals
- 13:18:38 [chaals]
- action-1602 on chaals
- 13:18:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Jason: I have put together a preliminary document and sent it to Charles who will put it up on a wiki
- 13:19:16 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- action-1603?
- 13:19:16 [trackbot]
- action-1603 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Work with jasonw, markkuh and the universe to discover how people do interaction… -- due 2015-07-17 -- OPEN
- 13:19:16 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1603
- 13:20:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Topic: New Documents
- 13:21:09 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: Please look at the revised SVG accessibility appendix and send me comments: https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/access.html
- 13:21:28 [fesch]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html
- 13:21:38 [AmeliaBR]
- AmeliaBR has joined #svg-a11y
- 13:21:52 [fesch]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html
- 13:22:06 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- fred: Let’s start talking about roles
- 13:22:31 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- fred: This one area that is talking about SVG in the third person
- 13:22:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- s/This/There/
- 13:22:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- amelia: We should edit the co-evolution of WAI-ARIA and host languages
- 13:24:18 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action: Rich update preliminaries in the SVG spec to better focus on SVG vs. legacy HTML
- 13:24:19 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1659 - Update preliminaries in the svg spec to better focus on svg vs. legacy html [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-06-26].
- 13:26:31 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- fred: Let’s look at section 4.1 where there are 2 new graphics roles g-icon and g-symbol
- 13:28:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: I think the intro needs to more clearly emphasize the action
- 13:29:51 [chaals]
- q+
- 13:29:58 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: We don’t want to encourage people to support interactivity where it needs to be interactive
- 13:30:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: I will update the example
- 13:30:31 [LJWatson]
- present+ LJWatson
- 13:30:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Jason: I suggest we make it look like the ARIA Spec. in terms of its position in the taxonmy
- 13:32:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: we need to require the name
- 13:32:31 [chaals]
- q-
- 13:33:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: Let’s discuss symbol
- 13:33:24 [AmeliaBR]
- Link to repo: https://github.com/w3c/aria
- 13:33:35 [AmeliaBR]
- Link to rawgit: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html
- 13:34:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: I will play around with the definition of symbol
- 13:34:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: The symbol element will never be in the accessibility tree
- 13:34:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: we need to apply symbol to <use>
- 13:35:09 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: you have one of these text icon on an element witthin a group. …
- 13:35:30 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: were we coing to ask for something linked from a symbol?
- 13:35:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: I am going to spend to day working on this. We can go over edits to the mapping spec. next week
- 13:36:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: Were there roles that we missed and agreed to put in
- 13:36:28 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: there is the figure role and the structured graphical component
- 13:36:38 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: That mean it is like a group or something?
- 13:36:47 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: Any other comments on the document so far.
- 13:37:13 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: Is everyone ok for me puttng in fallback role information?
- 13:37:27 [fesch]
- q?
- 13:37:36 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: Yes if is informative notes
- 13:38:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Topic: Taxonomy
- 13:38:45 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: We have some pretty aggressive schedules.
- 13:40:46 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Doug: The SVG working group is going to have another face to face in Paris in the fall.
- 13:41:10 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Doug: Looking to CR version of SVG in Q!16
- 13:43:15 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: I would like to see the chart roles in SVG2
- 13:45:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: Would like to also see roles needed fo native host language semantics as well as needed states and properties to synch with HTML as well
- 13:45:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: There is an aria-roledescription going into ARIA 1.1
- 13:46:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: Trying to get ARIA 1.1 locked down too
- 13:46:46 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: let’s talk about the graphical group role and what to call it
- 13:47:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Doug: I would like to see g-group
- 13:47:27 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: is there a definition for that on the wiki?
- 13:47:52 [AmeliaBR]
- https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_roles_for_graphics#Structured_Graphical_Component
- 13:48:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: Graphica components can be nested. These should be the default roles in SVG.
- 13:49:13 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: If you put a title on this group it maps to a new role
- 13:49:37 [AmeliaBR]
- s/default roles/default role for <svg> and <g>/
- 13:49:46 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: Before we said we were going to explicitly define roles … I wanted to put a label on a group to have it participate in navigation
- 13:50:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: Do I need to put a role on that?
- 13:50:09 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: no it maps automatically
- 13:50:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: if you have alternative text on it
- 13:51:50 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: looking at the stack bar chart and we want to be able to navigate up and down the stacks. To make it navigable we don’t need to put a role on it.
- 13:52:06 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: … we don’t need to put tabindex on everything
- 13:52:30 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: I thought we had an explicit thing on it we need to put a role on it.
- 13:52:36 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: no
- 13:52:54 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: there is a set of about 5 things that trigger whether it is in the accessibility tree.
- 13:53:09 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: it makes polyfills a little harder
- 13:53:16 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: that is great
- 13:54:18 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Rich: The important thing is does the role of the object reflect its purpose
- 13:54:54 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: The one thing I wanted to clarify is that if we are going to refer to graphical group it will be the main role for an entire SVG.
- 13:55:36 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: We need to have a way that they have switchted into a graphics (graphical group) and it may trigger a new graphical navigation mode.
- 13:55:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: right now we have document and widget navigation modes
- 13:56:18 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: if we are going to have new graphical navigation modes then we need to let the browser and AT to know that you have now entered into a graphical navigation mode.
- 13:56:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: If you have SVG can you have a role of icon?
- 13:56:51 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: that means you could not navigate inside
- 13:56:52 [fesch]
- q?
- 13:57:23 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: We said you need to be able to navigate based on the visual layout (left, right, top, down) … to deal with things like charts and maps
- 13:57:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: We are going to navigate a table
- 13:57:52 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: if we are going to investigate new navigation options
- 13:58:05 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: there is navigating like a tree
- 13:58:20 [fesch]
- q?
- 13:58:26 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Leonie: I don’t relish the work having to adjust to this as a user
- 13:58:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Charles: visual navigation is a way to get around what you can’t see.
- 13:58:58 [AmeliaBR]
- s/We are going to/Similar to the way you/
- 13:59:02 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Charles: it is a mechanism that is extremely limiting at best.
- 13:59:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Leonie: from an unsighted perspective spacial navigation is difficult.
- 14:00:00 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Amelia: We don’t want to tab through a 100 things to get to something
- 14:00:26 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Fred: I think you could just support both so that the user has a way to pick the navigation mode they want
- 14:00:45 [AmeliaBR]
- s/We don't/It's more for sighted keyboard users, who don't/
- 14:01:20 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Jason: Graphical group might trigger a different navigation mode. If someone is using SVG to create their own widget set. … What you are doing is creating a whole set of child nodes that effect your accessibility tree
- 14:01:35 [chaals]
- s/is a way/is not an easy way/
- 14:01:38 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Jason: You may not want an explicit group there
- 14:01:56 [chaals]
- [chaals leaves]
- 14:01:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Jason: … non-presentational child elements
- 14:02:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 14:02:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-svg-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
- 14:02:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 14:02:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 14:02:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-svg-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
- 14:05:19 [AmeliaBR]
- s/scribenick: Rich/scribenick: richardschwerdtfeger/
- 14:05:28 [AmeliaBR]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 14:05:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-svg-a11y-minutes.html AmeliaBR
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