17:05:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:05:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-aria-apg-irc
17:05:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:05:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria-apg
17:05:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:05:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
17:05:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:05:08 <trackbot> Date: 01 June 2015
17:05:41 <jamesn> s/Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference/Meeting: APG TF/
17:05:45 <jamesn> regrets+ Leonie
17:07:30 <annabbott> annabbott has joined #aria-apg
17:08:06 <jamesn> present+ Ian
17:08:11 <jamesn> present+ James
17:08:16 <jamesn> present+ Matt
17:08:20 <jamesn> present+ Ann
17:08:39 <mattking> Agenda+ New example development planning wiki page (James)
17:08:41 <mattking> Agenda+ Listbox pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#Listbox
17:08:42 <mattking> Agenda+ menubutton pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#menubutton
17:09:14 <jamesn> scribe: jamesn
17:09:23 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 1
17:09:23 <Zakim> agendum 1. "New example development planning wiki page (James)" taken up [from mattking]
17:09:26 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 2
17:09:26 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Listbox pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#Listbox" taken up [from mattking]
17:14:34 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria-apg
17:15:01 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
17:15:24 <mattking> Listbox pattern bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28085
17:16:41 <jamesn> JN: we looked at some of it
17:16:50 <jamesn> MK: Did something with the checkboxes section
17:17:23 <jamesn> MK: It was worded very differently before.
17:17:35 <jamesn> MK": was very different before and wanted people to take a look atg it
17:18:06 <jamesn> MK: there was previosuly a bunch of text explaining the selection style in listboxes where you see a check next to list items
17:18:41 <jamesn> MK: It was written in such a way that it was confusing in that it made it sound like theyu were checkboxes not options
17:21:52 <jamesn> http://www.jqueryrain.com/?Bxwy2bPt
17:25:33 <jamesn> JN: I guess this is a combobox not a listbox
17:25:47 <jamesn> JN: sorry for derailing the topic...
17:28:08 <jamesn> MK: Is the description ok? and is the structure ok?
17:30:21 <jamesn> AA: should we state what to do if you need interactive elements in a listbox
17:30:32 <jamesn> MK: don't have a widget
17:31:27 <jamesn> JN: we use F2 to switch to an interactive mode for the option
17:32:20 <jamesn> BG: doesn't talk about aria-activedescendent working for focus on listboxes
17:40:10 <mattking> If focus is set to the container with role listbox then aria-activedescendant must be used to refer to the option that has the visual focus indicator.
17:43:33 <jamesn> MK: I think we need a section on navigation between widgets like we have on navigation within widgets
17:50:43 <jamesn> BG: in the case where you havea  single select list of options which have checkable states such as in settings dialogs. Same concept as in tree
17:53:26 <jamesn> so aria-checked is simply a state of an option but doesn't indicate anything about the selection of the listbox
17:55:27 <jamesn> MK: In a multi-select if you use selection model 1 then we should stick to aria-selected to mean selected
17:55:41 <jamesn> BG: yes i think they should be kept seperate
17:56:08 <jamesn> MK: If you are displaying a checkbox then perhaps a dev would think you should just set aria-checked
17:56:34 <jamesn> BG: actually works better in IE. Wouldn't necessarially have the same functionality as in the design pattern
17:56:49 <jamesn> BG: they should be treated seperately
17:57:19 <jamesn> MK: I don't think there are very many people who get hung up on a screen reader saying checked or selected
17:57:59 <jamesn> BG: if it conveys that muliple items are checked or selected. The weird thing for developers will be the implementation details.
17:58:05 <jamesn> MK: on the same page there
17:58:27 <jamesn> MK: what i am wondering is whether there should be any mention of aria-checked here
17:59:25 <jamesn> JN: what we are saying is that it is good as it is
17:59:47 <jamesn> MK: avoiding aria-checked is a good thing as it adds to confusion
18:00:01 <jamesn> BG: the reason I bring it up is that i have seen devs do this
18:00:16 <jamesn> BG: I have seen themm stuickl a real checkbox inside the option element
18:04:55 <jamesn> JN: perhaps worry more about ahving a good exmaple with checkboxes that does it correctly
18:31:12 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:31:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
18:31:17 <jamesn> zakim, please part
18:31:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:31:22 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:31:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn