IRC log of html-a11y on 2015-05-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:47:48 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y

14:47:48 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-irc

14:47:50 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:47:50 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #html-a11y

14:47:52 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 2119

14:47:52 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 47 minutes ago

14:47:53 [trackbot]

Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

14:47:53 [trackbot]

Date: 28 May 2015

14:47:58 [chaals]

zakim, agenda?

14:47:58 [Zakim]

I see nothing on the agenda

14:48:36 [chaals]

agenda+ Agenda Edits & Additions

14:48:36 [chaals]

agenda+ Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Mark, Janina, Paul?

14:48:36 [chaals]

agenda+ Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam

14:48:36 [chaals]

agenda+ Transcript Support Update -- John, Chaals

14:48:37 [chaals]

agenda+ TF Open Actions  http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track

14:48:37 [chaals]

agenda+Other Business

14:49:05 [chaals]

agenda+ Tab Panels, Léonie - http://bkardell.github.io/common-panel/index-ljw.html

14:59:59 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started

15:00:05 [chaals]

chair: chaals

15:00:06 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:00:13 [chaals]

zakim, [ip is me

15:00:13 [Zakim]

+chaals; got it

15:00:19 [Zakim]

+[Microsoft]

15:01:12 [paulc]

paulc has joined #html-a11y

15:01:20 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:01:25 [Zakim]

+??P6

15:01:33 [paulc]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:01:33 [Zakim]

On the phone I see chaals, [Microsoft], [IPcaller], ??P6

15:01:40 [paulc]

zakim, [Microsoft] is me

15:01:41 [Zakim]

+paulc; got it

15:01:47 [Zakim]

+BrianKardell

15:01:55 [chaals]

zakim, [IP is Léonie

15:01:55 [Zakim]

+Léonie; got it

15:02:07 [chaals]

zakim, ??p6 is janina

15:02:07 [Zakim]

+janina; got it

15:02:10 [Zakim]

+JF

15:02:11 [LJWatson]

LJWatson has joined #html-a11y

15:02:12 [chaals]

agenda+ webex…

15:02:27 [chaals]

agenda?

15:02:33 [janina]

janina has joined #html-a11y

15:03:23 [bkardell_]

bkardell_ has joined #html-a11y

15:03:29 [janina]

present+ janina

15:03:33 [JF]

JF has joined #html-a11y

15:03:43 [chaals]

zakim, take up item 1

15:03:43 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Agenda Edits & Additions" taken up [from chaals]

15:03:54 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:03:58 [chaals]

CMN: for 2 minutes while we wait for people…

15:04:09 [chaals]

Present+ IanP

15:04:10 [IanPouncey]

Zakim, IPcaller is me

15:04:10 [Zakim]

+IanPouncey; got it

15:04:27 [chaals]

Present+ PaulC, JF, Léonie, BrianK

15:04:39 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

15:04:39 [Zakim]

On the phone I see chaals, paulc, Léonie, janina, BrianKardell, JF, IanPouncey

15:04:41 [Zakim]

On IRC I see JF, bkardell_, janina, LJWatson, paulc, Zakim, RRSAgent, chaals, IanPouncey, ShaneM, MarkS, sivoais, joanie, cabanier, trackbot, liam

15:04:51 [janina]

zakim, mute me

15:04:51 [Zakim]

janina should now be muted

15:04:53 [chaals]

i/CMN:/scribe: chaals/

15:05:04 [Zakim]

+Judy

15:05:12 [chaals]

Present+ Judy

15:05:33 [chaals]

zakim, close item 1

15:05:33 [Zakim]

agendum 1, Agenda Edits & Additions, closed

15:05:34 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:05:34 [Zakim]

2. Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Mark, Janina, Paul? [from chaals]

15:05:45 [chaals]

zakim, take up item 2

15:05:45 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Mark, Janina, Paul?" taken up [from chaals]

15:05:51 [chaals]

Topic: Canvas 2D

15:06:15 [chaals]

CMN: Where are we? Last call has 2 weeks to run, we need testing plan for the new stuff, and Rich is on vacation this week.

15:06:29 [janina]

zakim, unmute me

15:06:29 [Zakim]

janina should no longer be muted

15:06:41 [chaals]

PC: Have been doing some work on this. Cannot find previous canvas tests :(

15:07:19 [chaals]

… asking for help. Also working with previous editors to see how we handle LC comments. Most important thing from the TF is to confirm status of two new accessibility features in implementation

15:07:58 [chaals]

ACTION: CMN check with Rich next week on testing of new accessibility features

15:07:59 [trackbot]

Error finding 'CMN'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/users>.

15:08:13 [chaals]

ACTION: chaals to check with Rich next week on testing of new accessibility features

15:08:13 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-322 - Check with rich next week on testing of new accessibility features [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-06-04].

15:08:48 [chaals]

JS: My concern, under old process, is that we don't leave last call and go to CR still having problems. Want to make sure we don't find that in testing new accessibility features.

15:09:21 [chaals]

zakim, close this item

15:09:21 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

15:09:22 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:09:22 [Zakim]

3. Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam [from chaals]

15:09:29 [chaals]

zakim, take up item 3

15:09:29 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam" taken up [from chaals]

15:09:35 [chaals]

Topic: Alt Guidance

15:09:59 [LJWatson]

CMN: We're waiting for Liam to sync his changes to the editor's draft.

15:10:08 [chaals]

... including a statement that the goal

15:10:31 [LJWatson]

... Liam says it should be done this week. So that's where to file issues/Github.

15:11:12 [chaals]

-> https://github.com/w3c/alt-techniques/ draft repository

15:11:28 [chaals]

-> http://rawgit.com/w3c/alt-techniques/master/index.html as a document…

15:11:37 [chaals]

zakim, close this item

15:11:37 [Zakim]

agendum 3 closed

15:11:38 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:11:38 [Zakim]

4. Transcript Support Update -- John, Chaals [from chaals]

15:11:43 [chaals]

zakim, take up item 4

15:11:43 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Transcript Support Update -- John, Chaals" taken up [from chaals]

15:12:04 [bkardell_]

better url? http://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/

15:12:05 [paulc]

WG Note: http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/NOTE-html-alt-techniques-20150521/

15:12:23 [bkardell_]

or is that branch out of sync maybe... nm

15:12:45 [LJWatson]

PC: Thought we agreed to file issues against the HTML spec. Why the editor's draft?

15:13:22 [LJWatson]

CMN: We agreed to work on a draft within the TF, then propose changes to the HTML spec.

15:13:39 [Zakim]

+Liam

15:13:50 [LJWatson]

... We'll send proposed text, and the HTML editors can merge it into the HTML spec if agreeable.

15:14:28 [LJWatson]

PC: So the second link is a copy of part of the HTML spec?

15:14:59 [Zakim]

+Cynthia_Shelly

15:15:13 [LJWatson]

CMN: It's indeterminate until Liam syncs the changes.

15:15:28 [chaals]

Present+ Liam, Cynthia

15:16:02 [LJWatson]

LQ: It will have a statement to indicate the goal more clearly.

15:16:19 [LJWatson]

... I'm doing what may be a fairly big reorganisation to make it more usable.

15:16:42 [LJWatson]

... Then will issue a pull request if the TF agrees the content is an improvement on the current spec text.

15:17:20 [LJWatson]

PC: Thinking about a single pull request for a mass of changes.

15:17:30 [LJWatson]

CMN: That's an understood problem.

15:17:46 [LJWatson]

LQ: Can't do pull requests on small changes when the doc has been reogganised.

15:17:55 [LJWatson]

CMN: We'll provide enough detail for review.

15:18:02 [chaals]

Topic: Transcript

15:18:29 [JF]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Full_Transcript

15:18:37 [LJWatson]

CMN: Given use cases, we have a roughly workable approach. Need to draft spec text, but JF and I have not done so.

15:18:50 [chaals]

ACTION: chaals to draft a transcript extension specification

15:18:50 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-323 - Draft a transcript extension specification [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-06-04].

15:19:00 [LJWatson]

JF: At the F2F in Seattle, Paul recommended we circulate the proposed solution more widely.

15:19:34 [LJWatson]

... Question is what we do?

15:19:56 [LJWatson]

CMN: We should note that finding a name for the element is still an issue.

15:20:07 [LJWatson]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:20:07 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson

15:21:09 [chaals]

zakim, close this item

15:21:09 [Zakim]

agendum 4 closed

15:21:10 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:21:10 [Zakim]

5. TF Open Actions  http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track [from chaals]

15:21:18 [chaals]

zakim, take up item 7

15:21:18 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "Tab Panels, Léonie - http://bkardell.github.io/common-panel/index-ljw.html" taken up [from chaals]

15:21:25 [chaals]

Topic: Tab Panels

15:22:27 [chaals]

BK: There are a number of common interface metaphors on the web which boil down to a set of "panels"…

15:22:37 [chaals]

… some of them are described through ARIA.

15:23:27 [chaals]

… They are currently difficult to implement - requiring a collection of JS, CSS, etc, and they can be fragile especially with respect to accessibility.

15:24:07 [chaals]

… We have put together a proposal that provides elements "panelset", "panel", … and DOM apis etc, that would provide a simple markup-based approach, stylable with CSS.

15:24:49 [chaals]

… This becomes quite valuable in supporting responsive design, enabling the same content to transform from a carousel to an accordion, for example, depending on media characteristics.

15:25:00 [chaals]

-> http://bkardell.github.io/common-panel/index-ljw.html Current proposal

15:25:16 [chaals]

… And thus World Peace and silver unicorns...

15:25:57 [chaals]

BK: There is a prototype that shows this functioning so you can play with it. Please do, and file bugs.

15:26:10 [chaals]

… we would like to drive this through the new incubator group for HTML.

15:26:13 [chaals]

q+

15:26:47 [chaals]

… this is a good opportunity to demonstrate a path for bringing an experiment into HTML, with necessary input along the way

15:27:06 [chaals]

CMN: Next steps? should this go from TF to the HTML group directly?

15:27:42 [newtron]

newtron has joined #html-a11y

15:27:47 [chaals]

BK: Want to get a lot of people looking and testing this…

15:28:07 [paulc]

q+

15:28:31 [Zakim]

-Judy

15:29:21 [Zakim]

+Judy

15:29:25 [chaals]

BK: I am using this. If I start with something accessible it is easier not to break that, which is nice. Please look at it and test it. I've seen it simplify things we need to do, but is that true for people outside my organisation?

15:29:28 [chaals]

ack pa

15:30:20 [chaals]

PC: HTML group is only chartered for another month. Not obvious that it will continue in its current form for much longer. I'd like to suggest in-depth discussions contniue in the TF where there is critical mass, and tell the WG what you are doing when you are happy with that.

15:30:48 [chaals]

… seems TFs are the short-term place for getting work done on HTML - but please also make sure you share the information.

15:30:56 [chaals]

ack me

15:31:17 [bkardell_]

it is listed on https://specs.webplatform.org/ btw

15:31:54 [chaals]

ACTION: Chaals to work with Brian and Léonie, with discussion in TF but telling the rest of the world about tab panels.

15:31:54 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-324 - Work with brian and léonie, with discussion in tf but telling the rest of the world about tab panels. [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-06-04].

15:32:07 [chaals]

zakim, close this item

15:32:07 [Zakim]

agendum 7 closed

15:32:08 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:32:08 [Zakim]

5. TF Open Actions  http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track [from chaals]

15:32:42 [chaals]

Topic: Webex

15:32:52 [chaals]

CMN: How many people on this call are now happy using webex?

15:33:03 [liam]

+1

15:33:05 [IanPouncey]

+1

15:33:10 [chaals]

-1

15:33:11 [LJWatson]

+1

15:33:16 [bkardell_]

is there an alternative? I _can_ use it

15:33:28 [chaals]

CS: +1

15:33:31 [janina]

+1 to able; -1 to happy

15:33:50 [JF]

+0 (ambivalent)

15:34:36 [chaals]

Question: Are you able to functionally use webex

15:35:39 [JF]

Q+

15:35:46 [chaals]

CMN: Seems like I am the one who cannot make webex work.

15:36:11 [chaals]

JB: There are accessibility issues it seems. Please capture those if you run into them.

15:36:24 [chaals]

ack jf

15:36:32 [bkardell_]

web rtc?

15:36:36 [Zakim]

liam, you wanted to ask if anyone has not tried webex

15:36:52 [chaals]

JF: Haven't used it yet directly. Dial-in audio is poor.

15:37:07 [chaals]

[poor audio fro phones is a known issue]

15:37:16 [bkardell_]

FWIW, I regularly have to dial in to webex and the audio seems acceptable to me

15:37:18 [chaals]

ack li

15:37:39 [chaals]

LQ: We have some influence over configuration, but do not own our setup

15:37:53 [chaals]

JB: We also have access to Cisco who are interested in improving accessibility.

15:38:07 [chaals]

JS: Improving PSTN codecs would be helpful in particular.

15:38:22 [bkardell_]

q+

15:38:43 [chaals]

ack BK: No webRTC solution?

15:38:46 [chaals]

[not yet]

15:39:28 [chaals]

[There are known platform problems…]

15:39:32 [chaals]

zakim, close this topic

15:39:32 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'close this topic', chaals

15:39:38 [chaals]

zakim, close this item

15:39:38 [Zakim]

I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals

15:39:47 [chaals]

agenda?

15:39:56 [chaals]

Topic: action items

15:40:39 [chaals]

close action-314

15:40:39 [trackbot]

Closed action-314.

15:40:41 [LJWatson]

CMN: JF you have three actions relating to transcript?

15:40:44 [chaals]

close cation-315

15:40:52 [chaals]

close action-315

15:40:52 [trackbot]

Closed action-315.

15:41:56 [Judy]

Judy has joined #html-a11y

15:42:00 [Zakim]

-Judy

15:42:32 [chaals]

CMN: My outstanding item is outstanding :(

15:42:43 [chaals]

CS: I won't get to mine for a while :(

15:42:50 [Zakim]

+Judy

15:42:51 [chaals]

close action-316

15:42:52 [trackbot]

Closed action-316.

15:42:58 [bkardell_]

Please let us know if you have any feedback at all on the panels/panelsets

15:43:30 [Zakim]

-Léonie

15:43:36 [Zakim]

-chaals

15:43:38 [Zakim]

-janina

15:43:38 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelly

15:43:39 [Zakim]

-Judy

15:43:44 [Zakim]

-BrianKardell

15:43:45 [Zakim]

-IanPouncey

15:43:51 [Zakim]

-JF

15:43:54 [chaals]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:43:54 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-minutes.html chaals

15:43:55 [Zakim]

-Liam

15:44:21 [Zakim]

-paulc

15:44:22 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended

15:44:22 [Zakim]

Attendees were chaals, paulc, BrianKardell, Léonie, janina, JF, IanPouncey, Judy, Liam, Cynthia_Shelly

15:44:52 [chaals]

s/or is that branch out of sync maybe... nm//

15:46:25 [chaals]

s/Topic: Alt Guidance//

15:46:30 [chaals]

s|ACTION: CMN check with Rich next week on testing of new accessibility features [recorded inhttp://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01%5D||

15:46:42 [chaals]

s|Error finding 'CMN'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/users>.||

15:46:46 [chaals]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:46:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-minutes.html chaals

15:48:05 [chaals]

s/ACTION: CMN check with Rich next week on testing of new accessibility features [recorded in//

15:48:16 [chaals]

s|http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01%5D||

15:48:44 [chaals]

s|better url? http://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/||

15:49:22 [chaals]

i/CMN: We're waiting for Liam/scribeNick: LJWatson

15:50:16 [chaals]

s|agendum 7. "Tab Panels, Léonie - http://bkardell.github.io/common-panel/index-ljw.html" taken up [from chaals]||

15:50:52 [chaals]

s/Topic: Tab Panels/scribe: chaals

15:51:00 [chaals]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:51:00 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-minutes.html chaals

15:52:03 [chaals]

[adjourned]

15:52:09 [chaals]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:52:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-minutes.html chaals

15:52:15 [chaals]

rrsagent, bye

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-actions.rdf :

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: CMN check with Rich next week on testing of new accessibility features [1]

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-irc#T15-07-58

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: chaals to check with Rich next week on testing of new accessibility features [2]

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-irc#T15-08-13

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: chaals to draft a transcript extension specification [3]

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-irc#T15-18-50

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Chaals to work with Brian and Léonie, with discussion in TF but telling the rest of the world about tab panels. [4]

15:52:15 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-html-a11y-irc#T15-31-54