14:59:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcls
14:59:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-hcls-irc
14:59:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcls
14:59:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HCLS
14:59:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:45 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
14:59:45 <trackbot> Date: 26 May 2015
15:00:11 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started
15:00:15 <rhausam> rhausam has joined #HCLS
15:00:18 <Zakim> +DBooth
15:01:09 <Zakim> +ericP
15:01:56 <Zakim> + +1.801.949.aaaa
15:02:19 <dbooth> zakim, aaaa is rhausam
15:02:19 <Zakim> +rhausam; got it
15:03:06 <Lloyd> Lloyd has joined #HCLS
15:03:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:23 <Lloyd> zakim, ipcaller is lloyd
15:03:23 <Zakim> +lloyd; got it
15:05:09 <Tony> Tony has joined #HCLS
15:05:36 <Zakim> + +1.978.794.aabb
15:05:52 <dbooth> zakim, aabb is Tony
15:05:52 <Zakim> +Tony; got it
15:06:30 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Marc_Twagirumukiza has joined #HCLS
15:06:44 <Zakim> +??P6
15:07:13 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Zakim, ??P6 is Marc_Twagirumukiza
15:07:13 <Zakim> +Marc_Twagirumukiza; got it
15:11:32 <dbooth> Topic: Side-by-side example of two FHIR RDF approaches (Tony Mallia)
15:14:05 <dbooth> Scribe: Marc_Twagirumukiza
15:14:28 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=File:FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:14:59 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: We had been working on this also in small group
15:15:20 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: there are line number which can help in the document
15:15:47 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: section 2.1 (see L25-28)
15:16:24 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: saw that the github version changed
15:16:46 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> I had originally done this, the value has no specific domain
15:17:24 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: FHIR primitives
15:18:30 <dbooth> s/I had/Tony: I had/
15:18:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:19:00 <Rafael> Rafael has joined #HCLS
15:19:15 <Rafael> Rafael here
15:19:21 <dbooth> zakim, IPcaller is Rafael
15:19:21 <Zakim> +Rafael; got it
15:20:26 <dbooth> dbooth: Line 25 .coding is supposed to be a predicate URI TBD?
15:20:34 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: section 1.2 and sub-section
15:22:26 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: The original github was wrong... it has been corrected
15:22:44 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ericP: That means the algorythm was wrong?
15:23:23 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: section 1.2.2 shows it
15:24:38 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... the FHIR sting has a value which is a FHIR primitive
15:24:57 <dbooth> Tony: coding.code.value needs to be an object property, not a datatype property, for extensibility -- to allow other properties to be attached.
15:25:53 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... section 2 line 79
15:26:00 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... and following
15:26:42 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... there is a problem of BN, some inferences work some others not
15:26:56 <dbooth> s/BN/bnodes
15:27:48 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... this the first step L130
15:28:11 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Lloyd: can you explain more--- don't understand well
15:29:07 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: L115 un-labelled BN and L130 labelled BN
15:30:28 <dbooth> q+
15:31:33 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Lloyd: I can have 2 different codings
15:32:16 <Zakim> -Rafael
15:32:26 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: they can have different declarations
15:32:43 <dbooth> Tony: the same singleton URI can have different declarations in different places
15:33:02 <ericP> q+
15:33:11 <Lloyd> q+
15:33:26 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> dbooth: It would help if we differentiate  things here
15:33:37 <dbooth> ack dbooth
15:33:43 <dbooth> ack ericP
15:34:24 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ericP: if we have a single term and we need to have extension we would not go to the single term
15:34:39 <dbooth> eric: If we attach extra properties to a singleton URI at all, we're saying that they are true everywhere.  We'll instead want a node that is *related* to that singleton, so that we can attached extensions to that intermediate node.
15:34:46 <dbooth> ack Lloyd
15:35:11 <Zakim> -lloyd
15:35:13 <dbooth> lloyd: We can have 5,000 instances, each referring to the same code, but each one must independent.
15:35:19 <dbooth> tony: why?
15:35:22 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Lloyd: ech term has to be completery different from each other
15:35:27 <dbooth> q+
15:35:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:35:47 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: why they need to be separated?
15:36:12 <dbooth> ack dbooth
15:37:10 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Lloyd: I think I agree with you
15:37:23 <dbooth> lloyd: why do we need a singleton at all?  why not have a class?
15:38:09 <dbooth> ... we could have an inference rule that sees that class.
15:38:14 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: L131
15:38:56 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... BN could be a unique URI
15:38:57 <ericP> http://piratepad.net/hcls2
15:40:55 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: the nice thing here the label is attached to the name of the class and the label is propagated to the instances
15:41:07 <dbooth> q+
15:41:28 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> .. in SNOMED f.eg is attached to the Class
15:41:52 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> If you change the name of L135 the label will go
15:42:59 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: If you don't declare the individual,.... I dont think you can infer the label
15:43:22 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Lloyd: we need to investigate what cause this
15:43:43 <dbooth> dbooth: Would help to separate out the question of punning.   It's a convenience that can be used, but doesn't do anything you could not do with separate URIs.
15:44:28 <rhausam> rhausam has joined #HCLS
15:44:53 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: property chain seems to work with the reasoner
15:45:34 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> dbooth: ... named individuals Vs BN
15:46:43 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... we have to figure out if we need unique IRI
15:47:28 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> correct not IRI but URI
15:48:11 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> dbooth: How are we going to proceed?
15:48:42 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ericP: we need to figure out if we need to something there
15:48:57 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> dbooth: we need exemples
15:49:21 <ericP> -> http://piratepad.net/hcls example of BNode differentiation
15:49:25 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: Lets' use the exemples we have there
15:50:27 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... We can start with an assumption that the BN works
15:52:08 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ericP: Using the exemples I had before
15:52:28 <dbooth> ACTION: David to ask Michel Dumontier about bnode inference problem
15:52:28 <trackbot> 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dbooth, dderour, dhansen2, dnewman, dshotton, dwild).
15:52:36 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> dbooth: to create an action
15:53:50 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: I don't see the direction, I would take it back to BN
15:55:45 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... Concept Binding Internal-- Section 3
15:56:56 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> dbooth: I don't see the class at L294
15:57:21 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... I was expecting allergy confirmed there L294
15:58:11 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: see line 300 is there
15:58:23 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> ... there is a Class
15:59:33 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Lloyd: L299 has to be URI
16:01:29 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Tony: am in favour not to use the reasoner for that, it's not scalable
16:04:06 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> q+
16:04:18 <dbooth> ack dbooth
16:04:49 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> q-
16:04:58 <dbooth> ack ericP
16:05:02 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> -
16:05:10 <dbooth> Scribe: dbooth
16:05:13 <Zakim> -Marc_Twagirumukiza
16:06:10 <dbooth> eric: tony wants a single pass; lloyd wants a clear def of what the RDF is.  We could say that the transformation does two things.
16:06:57 <dbooth> lloyd: My understanding of the requirements is that we will not inject any information other than what is in the instance data.  Nothing else can use it in round tripping.
16:07:19 <dbooth> tony: It's part of the valueset definition.
16:07:39 <dbooth> lloyd: valueset definitions don't give you URLs for SNOMED concepts.
16:08:42 <dbooth> ... There are no SNOMED concept URIs in the def.
16:09:17 <dbooth> ... When you convert FHIR XML to RDF, you cannot introduce the SNOMED URIs.
16:09:25 <dbooth> q+
16:11:39 <dbooth> lloyd: Cannot add info except what's in the metadata that is part of the resource definition.
16:12:01 <dbooth> ... The resource defn knows cardinality, etc.   but not about SNOMED URIs.
16:12:17 <dbooth> ... Therefore the SNOMED URIs cannot be a part of the round tripping process.
16:12:38 <dbooth> ... But it *can* be introduced later by an ontology, by SPARQL rules, by many other ways.
16:13:37 <dbooth> ... The reference transformations between FHIR XML and FHIR RDF can only use the FHIR XML instance data and resource definitions, but nothing else.
16:14:11 <dbooth> ... We might make an exception for FHIR-maintained code systems, but cannot do it with anything else, because there are so many of them and they're always changing.
16:16:07 <Zakim> -Tony
16:16:10 <Zakim> -DBooth
16:17:03 <dbooth> tony: No standard way to form vocab URIs from the combination of Coding.system URI and Coding.code .
16:17:09 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
16:18:20 <ericP> http://piratepad.net/hcls2
16:33:03 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:33:08 <Zakim> -ericP
16:38:09 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, rhausam, in SW_HCLS()11:00AM
16:38:11 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
16:38:11 <Zakim> Attendees were DBooth, ericP, +1.801.949.aaaa, rhausam, lloyd, +1.978.794.aabb, Tony, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Rafael, [IPcaller]
17:12:22 <dbooth> Present:  David Booth, EricP, Rob Hausam, Lloyd McKenzie, Tony Mallia, Rafael Richards, Marc_Twagirumukiza
17:12:30 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth
17:12:36 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:12:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:17:46 <dbooth> s/BN/bnode/g
17:17:48 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:17:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:20:39 <dbooth> s|s/BN/bnode/g||
17:20:46 <dbooth> s/bnode/blank node/g
17:20:52 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:20:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
18:37:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #hcls