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<trackbot> Date: 07 May 2015
<Kathy> invite rrsagent
<Kathy> meeting: Mobile A11Y TF
<Kathy> chair: Kathy
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Perceivable_Techniques
Kathy: Perceivable techniques and
WebEx today
... last week we talked about smaller screen size, this week
zoom/modification and linear layout
... we've incorporated the techniques that we had in the
techniques list from a while back as well as things from the
note as well as other things that have come up in
conversation
... go through each one of those, should they be best practice
or technique, then identify anything else within zoom or
magnification that's important to add
Kathy: what are your thoughts on ensuring that the menu can be zoomed to 200% – is that a technique we should have in here, is it more of a situational best practice?
Marc: is 200% measurable or testable on mobile?
Kathy: in a responsive design you can lock the viewport size into maximum scale of 2.0 with 200% so you can look at the viewport settings, which is the next one down. So within the viewport we got a way of testing because it's the maximum you can get it to. I don't know if we have a way of measuring on an app though other than ball parking
Jon: physically measure, if you look at accessibility zoom or pinch zoom – accessibility zoom has a slider that you can actually do 200%
Kathy: there's three different levels – the OS magnification that you can set, we've also got browser functions, and then we've got pinch Zoom all based on the viewport settings
Jon: font page hard to tell us something is 18.5 or 14 so you can match
Kathy: would screen size come
into play or pixel size or is 200% same across devices
... WCAG guideline is 200%
... Greg comments of things we should be thinking about
especially in terms of large text. I'm going through those now.
Maybe he has some ideas. There was discussion back and forth –
breakpoints, dots per inch
... sizes overall going to be a challenge with everything we
are doing on mobile because there's not a good way to benchmark
it
... getting back to Jon's comment about Jim Thatcher's page,
that was easy to set up. Drawing the lines to see what's 200%,
that might be a good way
Marc: the menu one – that wouldn't work
Jon: event.scale property on
pinch function, does DOM keep track, but does app follow that
we don't know for sure
... if you go into a larger text there's a slider, and well
that doesn't show magnification level it does show you
different examples of text
... so you could compare them but that's it
... in Firefox there are plug-ins
... I didn't find a lot for mobile browsers, but maybe that's
changing
Kathy: is it something we can write or have one of the groups write and then reference in a guideline if we can come up with something
Jon: if you look at the actual sufficient technique it has that same challenge
Kathy: any insight on the WCAG
discussions that went around that?
... as far as writing a best practice or technique is it
important to have one that calls out a menu specifically
Jeanne: more important to be able to go higher than 200% – 200% on the phone as much at all. For some webpages especially ones that are not responsive design you have to go 1000%
Jon: we could put a statement in
their we're not saying that by going to 200% your making
content accessible, using because that's WCAG, but we are not
saying that means that it's going to be accessible to people
with low vision. Same with contrast
... we don't want to imply that this is somehow a number that
makes it accessible. It's more of a threshold that we have to
realistically say once you get to too big you have a very small
number of characters or words that appear on the screen so for
that reason we don't test above that
Kathy: maybe we change that –
note explicitly stating what you and Jeanne just said. I think
it's much more beyond the menu. I see problems where only part
of the screen magnifies
... what everybody be okay with just stating that we need to
have zoom to 200% and a note saying magnification would likely
be beneficial to those with low vision
Jon: when it talks about menus it says when you increase the font size menus may look odd to users. I think the concern is that sometimes- on a normal page you might scroll but menus might be fixed size container, may be pushed off screen or disappear
Kathy: we need to add notes into
our page reflecting that
... keep it as is but address the navigation that is specific
to mobile
... maybe we should say to at least 200% instead of 200%
<jon_avila> Menus in particular may present unique challenges when content is magnified to 200%. This may occur because menus often appear vertically and accessing menu items that scroll out of the viewable area may be truncated and/or may present challenges such as menus may disappear when the user scrolls the viewable area.
Kathy: what about supporting the characteristic properties the platform, zoom, larger font, captions, also darkened colors. A lot coming that work on apps but not necessarily on the webside. Thoughts?
Marc: no issues with this one – for including
Kathy: to what extent should we talk about the characteristic properties.
Marc: has to be open-ended because of the differences among devices
Jon: as a developer you're creating for android, but different hardware
Kathy: on android there's a large variety of settings. IOS it's more version numbers
Jeanne: approach it to say write your code so that if the manufacturer exposes it that is taken first, then have your own setting as a backup if you can't get it from the manufacturer, the platform. And then finally if there's a known bug in the platform don't code around it so you don't break it for other situations– well maybe that one should be separate because that's a separate issue
Kathy: thinking about the actual implementation if we look at mobile web we are thinking about with the browser is doing too. UAAG – something about honoring OS settings?
Jeanne: yes – by section
<jeanne> Jeanne: If the platform exposes the settings, use them. Otherwise, provide an appropriate default setting.
Kathy: what are specific challenges we are seeing around this in terms of text size, larger font, zoom things. What are things we are finding on the mobile website that would be impacted by setting characteristic properties or something that would prevent this from working
Jon: on Safari, font face, but other information I don't know if developer has control over, but as long as you meet contrast requirements. Provide an option for improved contrast beyond what may be available. That gets down to user preference. Is there a current WCAG technique for user preference
Kathy: there's also user preference within the browsers
Jeanne: I would think this is more applicable to apps than to websites. Websites are at the mercy of does the browser pick up the OS settings – I suppose some APIs that could do it but mostly. But for apps is a different story
Kathy: except if you use the Apple system font you get the larger font size in Safari because then dynamic text takes effect
Jon: in CSS
... I would be fine just limiting it to software. As far as
captions I don't know if a webpage would be able to get to a
user's caption preferences in OS? Automatically if you use a
default video player? If you use the default video player and
it does bring over the caption preferences for a webpage we
have a strong case to say as a developer you need to provide
more options
... I'll test that and get back to the group
Kathy: Kevin Earl may have some
more information that we can get directly where he has done
testing
... summing up – more applicable to apps and media players
Jon: Silverlight text elements – you something similar
Kathy: very specific case – anything to add or others that are similar?
Jon: I noticed this – once I
zoomed in when I moved around a thought I was scrolling the
page so is difficult to access the truncated content
... it's my understanding that the idea in general would be
problematic
Kathy: straightforward – any comment? Is there anything that's not in this list?
Kathy: is there anything else we
need to consider as far as contrast on mobile? Could make a
note that it would be beneficial for some users to be higher
than 4.51, but shouldn't require higher
... WCAG requirement is 1.2 times default, so were not doing
anything different here.
Jon: does not say in actual
standards, it's in the guidance, and that's not normative
... G114, G145 all in understanding document
Kathy: I do think it would be
helpful if we had some tools to reference but I don't know many
tools that are out there
... on the tool they were developing is this something that
they would consider scanning for?
Jeanne: something they were looking at don't know how much detail they were going into
Jon: iOS HTML 5, videos always seem to open up to the platform player
Marc: on this contrast one just having that default text size – is there a stated default text size on the IOS
Jon: it's based on the default size for the page
Jeanne: the email has the link
for the call. You can have it call you or you can connect to
the meeting with your computer or you can dial in directly.
I'll put the phone number in the meeting agenda. If you are
calling in you call in and put in your code
... when I was running test last week if the host wasn't there
you couldn't get in
... background – for 20 years MIT has hosted the zakim bridge.
They've switched over. They've offered us the use of their
WebEx system. We will lose some features – see who's on call,
raise your hand from your phone, but if you are you are using
IRC you can use the queue there. WebEx has some good tricks –
screen sharing, although not accessibly. It allows video. We
are not...
... running the...
... latest version. MIT has promised they will upgrade to a new
version that is supposed to be more accessible but have not
done it yet.
... what it does well video, slides, clarity is good, voice
over IP. You can have it call you doesn't matter where in the
world, no restriction on being called by the system.
<jeanne> https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m53b1b60a6036509754cc27dae8b39a88
<jeanne> 646 316 248
<jeanne> +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number
Jeanne: set it up to start next week. Key thing is when you login and it downloads the little app – it does it every time. Large audio button, click, options use computer, call me
Kathy: we will try to use this next week, we expect there will be problems getting in, but we will work with everybody on trying to get this set up
Jeanne: we Zakim as a backup if you can't get in on WebEx - still using chat. Type present+
Kathy: we will send out instructions to get this to work next week
Jeanne: we have until the end of June to work out the kinks.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: Kim Inferring Scribes: Kim Default Present: Kathy_Wahlbin, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, jon_avila, Kenny, Marc_Johlic Present: Kathy_Wahlbin Kim_Patch Jeanne jon_avila Kenny Marc_Johlic Regrets: Henny Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015May/0001.html Found Date: 07 May 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/05/07-mobile-a11y-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]