14:55:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #socialig
14:55:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-socialig-irc
14:55:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #socialig
14:55:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 76244
14:55:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Interest Group Teleconference
14:55:21 <trackbot> Date: 22 April 2015
14:55:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:35 <AdamB> AdamB has joined #socialig
14:56:08 <guangyuan> guangyuan has joined #socialig
14:56:39 <elf-pavlik> harry, oops! i used wrong channel :(
14:56:46 <Loqi> *sniff*
14:57:13 <johnbreslin> johnbreslin has joined #socialig
14:57:32 <elf-pavlik> hi guangyuan
14:57:38 <elf-pavlik> hi JHaag
14:57:47 <elf-pavlik> rhiaro will you join us today?
14:57:57 <elf-pavlik> hi johnbreslin
14:58:04 <johnbreslin> Hi there elf
14:58:14 <elf-pavlik> will you join telecon
14:58:36 <Zakim> T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:38 <Zakim> T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM has ended
14:58:38 <johnbreslin> Yes, just booting up my Avaya phone (Application starting…)
14:58:40 <Zakim> Attendees were
14:58:46 <guangyuan> hi
14:58:57 <johnbreslin> Hi Guangyuan
14:59:02 <elf-pavlik> harry? ^
14:59:10 <guangyuan> Hi john
14:59:28 <harry> trackbot, start meeting
14:59:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 76244
14:59:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Interest Group Teleconference
14:59:33 <trackbot> Date: 22 April 2015
15:00:01 <Zakim> T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM has now started
15:00:06 <Zakim> +??P6
15:00:07 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:15 <AnnB> AnnB has joined #socialig
15:01:18 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
15:01:41 <harry> ok, it appears dial-in works
15:01:50 <elf-pavlik> harry yes, thanks!
15:01:57 <Zakim> +??P19
15:01:57 <harry> sorry for the issues with Zakim last time, it was some sort of system-wide bug
15:02:06 <Zakim> + +1.314.705.aabb
15:02:10 <elf-pavlik> agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-04-22
15:02:17 <AdamB> Zakim, .aabb is me
15:02:18 <Zakim> sorry, AdamB, I do not recognize a party named '.aabb'
15:02:46 <AdamB> Zakim, aabb is me
15:02:46 <Zakim> sorry, AdamB, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:02:58 <Zakim> +Ann
15:03:07 <elf-pavlik> harry ^ ?
15:03:28 <Zakim> +??P20
15:03:55 <AdamB> i'll have to drop early, sorry
15:04:11 <guangyuan> Zakim, ??P19 is me
15:04:11 <Zakim> +guangyuan; got it
15:04:48 <johnbreslin> Been a while since I did some IRC waving, better than being slapped with a trout I guess!
15:04:50 <AnnB> ok, thanks
15:05:08 <elf-pavlik> TOPIC: Introducing Jason Haag
15:05:41 <AnnB> scribe: AnnB
15:05:46 <elf-pavlik> AnnB++
15:05:48 <Loqi> AnnB has 23 karma
15:05:51 <AnnB> Jason Haag intros self
15:06:26 <AdamB> glad to hear that Jason is going to be able to share some paint points they are experiencing with Activity Streams
15:06:27 <AnnB> just started study group for RDF / Linked Data for <all kinds of reasons>'
15:06:44 <Zakim> -elf-pavlik
15:06:44 <johnbreslin> White Paper Jason referred to: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zBPKryuF1tXHTI-AYjXd0ctdWoq4o4P-Uq9SAhJfus0/edit?pli=1
15:06:51 <AnnB> ... lots of vocab work
15:07:02 <AnnB> ... overlap with Social Web IG
15:07:26 <AnnB> ... Advanced Distributed Learning Initiative / USA Dept of Defense research activity
15:07:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:07:34 <AnnB> .... created SCORM years ago
15:07:55 <AnnB> ... standard for e-learning software
15:08:14 <elf-pavlik> http://www.adlnet.gov/
15:08:22 <AnnB> ... ADL research org focused on education and training
15:08:37 <dromasca> dromasca has joined #socialIG
15:08:41 <AnnB> ... their boss at Pentagon is head of training and readiness for all of US military
15:09:26 <Zakim> +dromasca
15:10:00 <AnnB> welcomes Dan Romascanu
15:10:13 <AnnB> ... usually has conflict at this time
15:10:19 <AnnB> .... works for Avaya
15:10:41 <AnnB> ... works in business services; connecting social networking interfaces
15:11:08 <AnnB> John Breslin intros
15:11:32 <guangyuan> I muted myself now
15:11:38 <dromasca> i muted
15:11:43 <AnnB> ... at former DERI
15:11:51 <AnnB> ... now Insight Centre for Analytics
15:11:58 <AnnB> ... Univ Ireland, Galway
15:12:27 <elf-pavlik> http://sioc-project.org/
15:12:27 <AnnB> ... involved for long time with Semantic Web / Linked Data
15:12:46 <AnnB> ... 10-15 years ago set up discussion forum for "social"
15:13:00 <AnnB> .... saw the need for social vocabulary .. thus started SIOC
15:13:14 <AnnB> ... been working on it ~10 years
15:13:24 <AnnB> ... W3C submission in ~2007
15:13:34 <AnnB> ... still being discussed
15:14:26 <AnnB> Guangyuan introduces self
15:14:55 <AnnB> ... PhD student with John Breslin
15:14:56 <johnbreslin> Some problems with your audio Guangyuan
15:15:23 <AnnB> <sorry, bad audio>
15:15:34 <AnnB> could you please type a few lines about your interests, into IRC?
15:15:54 <guangyuan> I’m phd student in John’s group and interested in social vocab and social web user modeling
15:16:09 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-04-22#Social_Vocabulary
15:16:19 <AnnB> thanks guangyuan! looking forward to meeting (without echo!) in Paris
15:16:39 <AnnB> elf-pavlik: now, meeting of Vocabulary TF
15:16:55 <AnnB> ... schema.org and microformats are "living" standards
15:17:09 <Zakim> -guangyuan
15:17:10 <AnnB> ... thus hard to establish dependencies
15:17:48 <AnnB> ... diagrams: activities to <this and that>
15:18:19 <AnnB> ... calls on rhiaro to talk about mapping to microformats
15:18:25 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/rhiaro/mf2rdf
15:18:49 <AnnB> rhiaro describes her work
15:19:01 <AnnB> ... <sorry, can't understand well enough to scribe>
15:19:01 <Zakim> +??P13
15:19:16 <rhiaro> Sorry AnnB
15:19:19 <guangyuan> Zakim, ??P13 is me
15:19:19 <Zakim> +guangyuan; got it
15:19:21 <rhiaro> I'll post a link to a blog post
15:19:26 <AnnB> ok, thanks
15:19:30 <AnnB> sounds interesting
15:19:30 <rhiaro> (which needs publishing)
15:19:52 <elf-pavlik> http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/post-and-activity-types
15:20:04 <rhiaro> I've had more thoughts  on that since ^
15:20:08 <rhiaro> have had some good responses
15:20:16 <AnnB> cool .. interested to hear
15:20:19 <rhiaro> will be posting a follow up post soon
15:20:41 <AnnB> elf-pavlik: how do activities relate to sioc items to <etc>
15:20:49 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab
15:21:43 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Follow
15:21:46 <AnnB> ... classes:  activity, qualified-relation
15:22:32 <AnnB> ... in "Follow" link, elf diagrams terms and concepts
15:22:46 <AnnB> ... invites others to explore this visualizing technique
15:22:54 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Join
15:23:24 <AnnB> ... another example, exploring vocabularies related to "joining"
15:24:14 <AdamB> are you looking for additional "sub activity" types?
15:24:27 <AnnB> ... when he has diagrams of "containers" that will show relationships between activities
15:24:38 <AnnB> <did I capture that correctly?>
15:24:43 <Zakim> + +1.541.410.aacc
15:25:55 <Zakim> - +1.541.410.aacc
15:26:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:26:13 <AdamB> zakim, mute all
15:26:14 <Zakim> sorry, AdamB, I do not know which phone connection belongs to all
15:26:25 <Zakim> + +1.541.410.aadd
15:26:52 <Zakim> -johnbreslin
15:26:54 <johnbreslin> Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
15:26:54 <Zakim> sorry, johnbreslin, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
15:27:18 <johnbreslin> Zakim, +IPcaller is me
15:27:18 <Zakim> sorry, johnbreslin, I do not recognize a party named '+IPcaller'
15:27:31 <johnbreslin> third time lucky ;-) ta elf-pavlik
15:28:20 <johnbreslin> via rhiaro: since elf-pavlik has used http*s*://rhiaro.co.uk in all the diagrams, I should probably get an ssl cert for rhiaro.co.uk
15:28:39 <AnnB> thanks johnbreslin
15:28:40 <AnnB> yes, I was saying that your /me comment about elf won't go into minutes
15:28:43 <AnnB> bye Adam
15:28:47 <Zakim> -AdamB
15:29:07 <AnnB> ok johnbreslin ... noted you won't see IRC
15:29:38 <AnnB> jhaag: could you give more detail about the purpose of qualified relation
15:30:08 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/blob/master/property/follows
15:30:21 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/qualified-relation/Following
15:30:35 <Lloyd_Fassett> Lloyd_Fassett has joined #Socialig
15:31:02 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/blob/master/activity/Follow
15:31:38 <AnnB> elf-pavlik: "follows" is a dead-end, whereas "follow" has many options
15:31:41 <AnnB> ... one is an edge
15:32:07 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab
15:32:29 <AnnB> ... read the "read me" in that link
15:32:50 <AnnB> ... will try same pattern for containers
15:33:07 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/99
15:33:34 <AnnB> ... example from James Snell (IBM), in Social Working Group
15:33:55 <AnnB> rrsagent, make minutes
15:33:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-socialig-minutes.html AnnB
15:34:27 <AnnB> ... trying to look at existing vocabs, and take common patterns
15:34:27 <Zakim> -guangyuan
15:34:44 <AnnB> ... some vocabs are simple, others more complicated
15:34:53 <AnnB> jhaag: I like the diagrams; very helpful
15:35:37 <AnnB> elf-pavlik:  I want to show the "state" of graph before and after an action or API call
15:35:44 <AnnB> ... and what changes resulted
15:37:01 <JHaag>  really like the visualization to go with it elf!
15:37:04 <AnnB> AnnB: curious to hear from John Breslin how this relates to his work with SIOC
15:37:09 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Travel
15:37:09 <AnnB> <no answer; must be not hearing>
15:37:15 <JHaag> what tool did you use to model it?
15:37:33 <AnnB> elf-pavlik: early work on "travel"
15:39:01 <AnnB> ... if you just look at json or turtle, you might miss that some things don't make sense
15:39:09 <Zakim> -johnbreslin
15:39:17 <AnnB> ... was really helpful to do this diagram
15:39:24 <elf-pavlik> http://vowl.visualdataweb.org/webvowl/index.html
15:39:29 <AnnB> ... use google drawing, but plan to switch to another tool
15:39:43 <AnnB> AnnB suggests somethign that puts out SVG
15:39:56 <AnnB> s/json/json-ld/
15:40:22 <AnnB> ... next steps:  first I plan to make diagrams for all the data modeling I use on my own home page
15:41:11 <AnnB> ... then I'll look at web credentials for one's accomplishments (e.g., university degrees, achievements..)
15:41:20 <AnnB> ... more real-world use cases
15:41:48 <AnnB> AnnB: how much relationship is there between the various vocabularies?
15:42:02 <JHaag> not much
15:42:07 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Sicialig/Vocabulary_TF/Mapping_API_User_Stories_to_Vocabulary_terms
15:42:10 <JHaag> there is little overlap
15:42:22 <JHaag> some basic things like title, description, etc.
15:42:51 <JHaag> some overlap with FOAF and dublin core metadata
15:43:40 <AnnB> elf-pavlik: that's why I was trying to map between vocabulary "systems"
15:43:49 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison
15:45:04 <AnnB> ... collection comparison: that's trying to summarize the overlaps
15:47:45 <AnnB> ... aiming at 2 containers: people I follow and people who follow me
15:48:08 <AnnB> ... purpose of diagrams is to better understand and make it easier to exlain
15:48:16 <AnnB> s/exlain/explain/
15:49:25 <AnnB>  ... unfortunately Lynn Foster couldn't attend today; she uses a lot of diagrams
15:49:36 <AnnB> ... in Open Value Network
15:50:14 <AnnB> AnnB: how can people help?
15:50:26 <AnnB> elf-pavlik: go look at the repos
15:50:52 <AnnB> ... make "Issues" to ask questions, or comments, such as "this doesn't make sense"
15:51:23 <AnnB> ... all the people working on modeling, can contribute from their point-of-view
15:51:40 <AnnB> ... also to explain how they do <action> in their own model
15:52:07 <AnnB> ... or to ask questions about differences between vocabularies or models
15:53:03 <AnnB> AnnB: thanks so much to elf-pavlik for doing all this work; for establishing such a good foundation
15:53:07 <rhiaro> elf-pavlik, my immediate reaction is why do we need qualified relations *and* activities? the start and end dates etc could be attached to the activity, right? since activity is an object. Maybe I just haven't looked at enough examples yet, and also I can't hear properly. Also also I have to go now. I'll follow up on github after I've had a more thorough look at all of the diagrams.
15:53:27 <AnnB> ok, thanks rhiaro
15:54:05 <rhiaro> but the original folllow activity still exists?
15:54:08 <rhiaro> and a new unfollow activity
15:54:13 <AnnB> (for new folks... "rhiaro" is Amy Guy, a PhD student in Edinburgh)
15:55:06 <rhiaro> elf-pavlik: okay cool, I'll think about it some more
15:55:11 <rhiaro> I'll also start making some data available
15:55:28 <rhiaro> really have to run now, catch you later!
15:55:36 <Zakim> -rhiaro
15:55:39 <AnnB> ok, ciao
15:56:02 <elf-pavlik> ciao rhiaro o/
15:56:03 <Lloyd_Fassett> +?
15:56:33 <elf-pavlik> +q
15:56:36 <elf-pavlik> -q
15:56:38 <elf-pavlik> q+
15:56:40 <elf-pavlik> q-
15:56:43 <AnnB> AnnB: there will be a lot of vocabulary specialists in Paris .. should be an agenda item
15:57:15 <AnnB> Lloyd: wonders about qualified relationships
15:57:25 <AnnB> .... we have multiple types of relationships
15:57:32 <AnnB> ... how to define
15:58:00 <AnnB> elf-pavlik: I'm going to try to explore that using the relations I've got on my own web site
15:58:11 <AnnB> ... going to diagram those this week
15:59:30 <AnnB> Lloyd: Amy's question prompted my thinking on that
15:59:45 <AnnB> ... will be interesting to see your work on this
15:59:54 <AnnB> ... seems like she's trying to get at "context"
16:00:11 <tantek> tantek has joined #socialig
16:02:10 <AnnB> elf-pavlik: seeking ways to discuss this, rather than define "ONE" way
16:03:38 <AnnB> Lloyd: <missed your point .. in case you can type it in; sorry>
16:05:07 <Lloyd_Fassett> I think we're drilling in how actors can relate to each other and domain specific 'nouns'.  I expect that our 'vocabulary' is different by type, which is a good thing.
16:05:13 <Zakim> -JHaag
16:05:21 <AnnB> <sorry to point out that we are out of time>
16:05:41 <AnnB> elf-pavlik:  would really like help with feedback on github
16:06:01 <Zakim> -dromasca
16:06:03 <Zakim> -Lloyd
16:06:03 <AnnB> trackbot, end meeting
16:06:03 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:06:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been elf-pavlik, JHaag, +3539149aaaa, johnbreslin, +1.314.705.aabb, AdamB, Ann, rhiaro, guangyuan, dromasca, +1.541.410.aacc, +1.541.410.aadd,
16:06:04 <elf-pavlik> AnnB++
16:06:06 <Loqi> AnnB has 24 karma
16:06:07 <Zakim> ... Lloyd
16:06:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:06:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-socialig-minutes.html trackbot
16:06:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:06:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items