IRC log of socialig on 2015-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:16 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #socialig
14:55:16 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-socialig-irc
14:55:18 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:18 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #socialig
14:55:20 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 76244
14:55:21 [trackbot]: Meeting: Social Interest Group Teleconference
14:55:21 [trackbot]: Date: 22 April 2015
14:55:22 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:35 [AdamB]: AdamB has joined #socialig
14:56:08 [guangyuan]: guangyuan has joined #socialig
14:56:39 [elf-pavlik]: harry, oops! i used wrong channel :(
14:56:46 [Loqi]: *sniff*
14:57:13 [johnbreslin]: johnbreslin has joined #socialig
14:57:32 [elf-pavlik]: hi guangyuan
14:57:38 [elf-pavlik]: hi JHaag
14:57:47 [elf-pavlik]: rhiaro will you join us today?
14:57:57 [elf-pavlik]: hi johnbreslin
14:58:04 [johnbreslin]: Hi there elf
14:58:14 [elf-pavlik]: will you join telecon
14:58:36 [Zakim]: T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:38 [Zakim]: T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM has ended
14:58:38 [johnbreslin]: Yes, just booting up my Avaya phone (Application starting…)
14:58:40 [Zakim]: Attendees were
14:58:46 [guangyuan]: hi
14:58:57 [johnbreslin]: Hi Guangyuan
14:59:02 [elf-pavlik]: harry? ^
14:59:10 [guangyuan]: Hi john
14:59:28 [harry]: trackbot, start meeting
14:59:30 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:32 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 76244
14:59:32 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:33 [trackbot]: Meeting: Social Interest Group Teleconference
14:59:33 [trackbot]: Date: 22 April 2015
15:00:01 [Zakim]: T&S_SOCIG()11:00AM has now started
15:00:06 [Zakim]: +??P6
15:00:07 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:01:15 [AnnB]: AnnB has joined #socialig
15:01:18 [Zakim]: + +3539149aaaa
15:01:41 [harry]: ok, it appears dial-in works
15:01:50 [elf-pavlik]: harry yes, thanks!
15:01:57 [Zakim]: +??P19
15:01:57 [harry]: sorry for the issues with Zakim last time, it was some sort of system-wide bug
15:02:06 [Zakim]: + +1.314.705.aabb
15:02:10 [elf-pavlik]: agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-04-22
15:02:17 [AdamB]: Zakim, .aabb is me
15:02:18 [Zakim]: sorry, AdamB, I do not recognize a party named '.aabb'
15:02:46 [AdamB]: Zakim, aabb is me
15:02:46 [Zakim]: sorry, AdamB, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:02:58 [Zakim]: +Ann
15:03:07 [elf-pavlik]: harry ^ ?
15:03:28 [Zakim]: +??P20
15:03:55 [AdamB]: i'll have to drop early, sorry
15:04:11 [guangyuan]: Zakim, ??P19 is me
15:04:11 [Zakim]: +guangyuan; got it
15:04:48 [johnbreslin]: Been a while since I did some IRC waving, better than being slapped with a trout I guess!
15:04:50 [AnnB]: ok, thanks
15:05:08 [elf-pavlik]: TOPIC: Introducing Jason Haag
15:05:41 [AnnB]: scribe: AnnB
15:05:46 [elf-pavlik]: AnnB++
15:05:48 [Loqi]: AnnB has 23 karma
15:05:51 [AnnB]: Jason Haag intros self
15:06:26 [AdamB]: glad to hear that Jason is going to be able to share some paint points they are experiencing with Activity Streams
15:06:27 [AnnB]: just started study group for RDF / Linked Data for <all kinds of reasons>'
15:06:44 [Zakim]: -elf-pavlik
15:06:44 [johnbreslin]: White Paper Jason referred to: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zBPKryuF1tXHTI-AYjXd0ctdWoq4o4P-Uq9SAhJfus0/edit?pli=1
15:06:51 [AnnB]: ... lots of vocab work
15:07:02 [AnnB]: ... overlap with Social Web IG
15:07:26 [AnnB]: ... Advanced Distributed Learning Initiative / USA Dept of Defense research activity
15:07:32 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:07:34 [AnnB]: .... created SCORM years ago
15:07:55 [AnnB]: ... standard for e-learning software
15:08:14 [elf-pavlik]: http://www.adlnet.gov/
15:08:22 [AnnB]: ... ADL research org focused on education and training
15:08:37 [dromasca]: dromasca has joined #socialIG
15:08:41 [AnnB]: ... their boss at Pentagon is head of training and readiness for all of US military
15:09:26 [Zakim]: +dromasca
15:10:00 [AnnB]: welcomes Dan Romascanu
15:10:13 [AnnB]: ... usually has conflict at this time
15:10:19 [AnnB]: .... works for Avaya
15:10:41 [AnnB]: ... works in business services; connecting social networking interfaces
15:11:08 [AnnB]: John Breslin intros
15:11:32 [guangyuan]: I muted myself now
15:11:38 [dromasca]: i muted
15:11:43 [AnnB]: ... at former DERI
15:11:51 [AnnB]: ... now Insight Centre for Analytics
15:11:58 [AnnB]: ... Univ Ireland, Galway
15:12:27 [elf-pavlik]: http://sioc-project.org/
15:12:27 [AnnB]: ... involved for long time with Semantic Web / Linked Data
15:12:46 [AnnB]: ... 10-15 years ago set up discussion forum for "social"
15:13:00 [AnnB]: .... saw the need for social vocabulary .. thus started SIOC
15:13:14 [AnnB]: ... been working on it ~10 years
15:13:24 [AnnB]: ... W3C submission in ~2007
15:13:34 [AnnB]: ... still being discussed
15:14:26 [AnnB]: Guangyuan introduces self
15:14:55 [AnnB]: ... PhD student with John Breslin
15:14:56 [johnbreslin]: Some problems with your audio Guangyuan
15:15:23 [AnnB]: <sorry, bad audio>
15:15:34 [AnnB]: could you please type a few lines about your interests, into IRC?
15:15:54 [guangyuan]: I’m phd student in John’s group and interested in social vocab and social web user modeling
15:16:09 [elf-pavlik]: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-04-22#Social_Vocabulary
15:16:19 [AnnB]: thanks guangyuan! looking forward to meeting (without echo!) in Paris
15:16:39 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: now, meeting of Vocabulary TF
15:16:55 [AnnB]: ... schema.org and microformats are "living" standards
15:17:09 [Zakim]: -guangyuan
15:17:10 [AnnB]: ... thus hard to establish dependencies
15:17:48 [AnnB]: ... diagrams: activities to <this and that>
15:18:19 [AnnB]: ... calls on rhiaro to talk about mapping to microformats
15:18:25 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/rhiaro/mf2rdf
15:18:49 [AnnB]: rhiaro describes her work
15:19:01 [AnnB]: ... <sorry, can't understand well enough to scribe>
15:19:01 [Zakim]: +??P13
15:19:16 [rhiaro]: Sorry AnnB
15:19:19 [guangyuan]: Zakim, ??P13 is me
15:19:19 [Zakim]: +guangyuan; got it
15:19:21 [rhiaro]: I'll post a link to a blog post
15:19:26 [AnnB]: ok, thanks
15:19:30 [AnnB]: sounds interesting
15:19:30 [rhiaro]: (which needs publishing)
15:19:52 [elf-pavlik]: http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/post-and-activity-types
15:20:04 [rhiaro]: I've had more thoughts on that since ^
15:20:08 [rhiaro]: have had some good responses
15:20:16 [AnnB]: cool .. interested to hear
15:20:19 [rhiaro]: will be posting a follow up post soon
15:20:41 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: how do activities relate to sioc items to <etc>
15:20:49 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab
15:21:43 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Follow
15:21:46 [AnnB]: ... classes: activity, qualified-relation
15:22:32 [AnnB]: ... in "Follow" link, elf diagrams terms and concepts
15:22:46 [AnnB]: ... invites others to explore this visualizing technique
15:22:54 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Join
15:23:24 [AnnB]: ... another example, exploring vocabularies related to "joining"
15:24:14 [AdamB]: are you looking for additional "sub activity" types?
15:24:27 [AnnB]: ... when he has diagrams of "containers" that will show relationships between activities
15:24:38 [AnnB]: <did I capture that correctly?>
15:24:43 [Zakim]: + +1.541.410.aacc
15:25:55 [Zakim]: - +1.541.410.aacc
15:26:01 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:26:13 [AdamB]: zakim, mute all
15:26:14 [Zakim]: sorry, AdamB, I do not know which phone connection belongs to all
15:26:25 [Zakim]: + +1.541.410.aadd
15:26:52 [Zakim]: -johnbreslin
15:26:54 [johnbreslin]: Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
15:26:54 [Zakim]: sorry, johnbreslin, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
15:27:18 [johnbreslin]: Zakim, +IPcaller is me
15:27:18 [Zakim]: sorry, johnbreslin, I do not recognize a party named '+IPcaller'
15:27:31 [johnbreslin]: third time lucky ;-) ta elf-pavlik
15:28:20 [johnbreslin]: via rhiaro: since elf-pavlik has used http*s*://rhiaro.co.uk in all the diagrams, I should probably get an ssl cert for rhiaro.co.uk
15:28:39 [AnnB]: thanks johnbreslin
15:28:40 [AnnB]: yes, I was saying that your /me comment about elf won't go into minutes
15:28:43 [AnnB]: bye Adam
15:28:47 [Zakim]: -AdamB
15:29:07 [AnnB]: ok johnbreslin ... noted you won't see IRC
15:29:38 [AnnB]: jhaag: could you give more detail about the purpose of qualified relation
15:30:08 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/blob/master/property/follows
15:30:21 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/qualified-relation/Following
15:30:35 [Lloyd_Fassett]: Lloyd_Fassett has joined #Socialig
15:31:02 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/blob/master/activity/Follow
15:31:38 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: "follows" is a dead-end, whereas "follow" has many options
15:31:41 [AnnB]: ... one is an edge
15:32:07 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab
15:32:29 [AnnB]: ... read the "read me" in that link
15:32:50 [AnnB]: ... will try same pattern for containers
15:33:07 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/99
15:33:34 [AnnB]: ... example from James Snell (IBM), in Social Working Group
15:33:55 [AnnB]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:33:55 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-socialig-minutes.html AnnB
15:34:27 [AnnB]: ... trying to look at existing vocabs, and take common patterns
15:34:27 [Zakim]: -guangyuan
15:34:44 [AnnB]: ... some vocabs are simple, others more complicated
15:34:53 [AnnB]: jhaag: I like the diagrams; very helpful
15:35:37 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: I want to show the "state" of graph before and after an action or API call
15:35:44 [AnnB]: ... and what changes resulted
15:37:01 [JHaag]: really like the visualization to go with it elf!
15:37:04 [AnnB]: AnnB: curious to hear from John Breslin how this relates to his work with SIOC
15:37:09 [elf-pavlik]: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Travel
15:37:09 [AnnB]: <no answer; must be not hearing>
15:37:15 [JHaag]: what tool did you use to model it?
15:37:33 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: early work on "travel"
15:39:01 [AnnB]: ... if you just look at json or turtle, you might miss that some things don't make sense
15:39:09 [Zakim]: -johnbreslin
15:39:17 [AnnB]: ... was really helpful to do this diagram
15:39:24 [elf-pavlik]: http://vowl.visualdataweb.org/webvowl/index.html
15:39:29 [AnnB]: ... use google drawing, but plan to switch to another tool
15:39:43 [AnnB]: AnnB suggests somethign that puts out SVG
15:39:56 [AnnB]: s/json/json-ld/
15:40:22 [AnnB]: ... next steps: first I plan to make diagrams for all the data modeling I use on my own home page
15:41:11 [AnnB]: ... then I'll look at web credentials for one's accomplishments (e.g., university degrees, achievements..)
15:41:20 [AnnB]: ... more real-world use cases
15:41:48 [AnnB]: AnnB: how much relationship is there between the various vocabularies?
15:42:02 [JHaag]: not much
15:42:07 [elf-pavlik]: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Sicialig/Vocabulary_TF/Mapping_API_User_Stories_to_Vocabulary_terms
15:42:10 [JHaag]: there is little overlap
15:42:22 [JHaag]: some basic things like title, description, etc.
15:42:51 [JHaag]: some overlap with FOAF and dublin core metadata
15:43:40 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: that's why I was trying to map between vocabulary "systems"
15:43:49 [elf-pavlik]: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison
15:45:04 [AnnB]: ... collection comparison: that's trying to summarize the overlaps
15:47:45 [AnnB]: ... aiming at 2 containers: people I follow and people who follow me
15:48:08 [AnnB]: ... purpose of diagrams is to better understand and make it easier to exlain
15:48:16 [AnnB]: s/exlain/explain/
15:49:25 [AnnB]: ... unfortunately Lynn Foster couldn't attend today; she uses a lot of diagrams
15:49:36 [AnnB]: ... in Open Value Network
15:50:14 [AnnB]: AnnB: how can people help?
15:50:26 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: go look at the repos
15:50:52 [AnnB]: ... make "Issues" to ask questions, or comments, such as "this doesn't make sense"
15:51:23 [AnnB]: ... all the people working on modeling, can contribute from their point-of-view
15:51:40 [AnnB]: ... also to explain how they do <action> in their own model
15:52:07 [AnnB]: ... or to ask questions about differences between vocabularies or models
15:53:03 [AnnB]: AnnB: thanks so much to elf-pavlik for doing all this work; for establishing such a good foundation
15:53:07 [rhiaro]: elf-pavlik, my immediate reaction is why do we need qualified relations *and* activities? the start and end dates etc could be attached to the activity, right? since activity is an object. Maybe I just haven't looked at enough examples yet, and also I can't hear properly. Also also I have to go now. I'll follow up on github after I've had a more thorough look at all of the diagrams.
15:53:27 [AnnB]: ok, thanks rhiaro
15:54:05 [rhiaro]: but the original folllow activity still exists?
15:54:08 [rhiaro]: and a new unfollow activity
15:54:13 [AnnB]: (for new folks... "rhiaro" is Amy Guy, a PhD student in Edinburgh)
15:55:06 [rhiaro]: elf-pavlik: okay cool, I'll think about it some more
15:55:11 [rhiaro]: I'll also start making some data available
15:55:28 [rhiaro]: really have to run now, catch you later!
15:55:36 [Zakim]: -rhiaro
15:55:39 [AnnB]: ok, ciao
15:56:02 [elf-pavlik]: ciao rhiaro o/
15:56:03 [Lloyd_Fassett]: +?
15:56:33 [elf-pavlik]: +q
15:56:36 [elf-pavlik]: -q
15:56:38 [elf-pavlik]: q+
15:56:40 [elf-pavlik]: q-
15:56:43 [AnnB]: AnnB: there will be a lot of vocabulary specialists in Paris .. should be an agenda item
15:57:15 [AnnB]: Lloyd: wonders about qualified relationships
15:57:25 [AnnB]: .... we have multiple types of relationships
15:57:32 [AnnB]: ... how to define
15:58:00 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: I'm going to try to explore that using the relations I've got on my own web site
15:58:11 [AnnB]: ... going to diagram those this week
15:59:30 [AnnB]: Lloyd: Amy's question prompted my thinking on that
15:59:45 [AnnB]: ... will be interesting to see your work on this
15:59:54 [AnnB]: ... seems like she's trying to get at "context"
16:00:11 [tantek]: tantek has joined #socialig
16:02:10 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: seeking ways to discuss this, rather than define "ONE" way
16:03:38 [AnnB]: Lloyd: <missed your point .. in case you can type it in; sorry>
16:05:07 [Lloyd_Fassett]: I think we're drilling in how actors can relate to each other and domain specific 'nouns'. I expect that our 'vocabulary' is different by type, which is a good thing.
16:05:13 [Zakim]: -JHaag
16:05:21 [AnnB]: <sorry to point out that we are out of time>
16:05:41 [AnnB]: elf-pavlik: would really like help with feedback on github
16:06:01 [Zakim]: -dromasca
16:06:03 [Zakim]: -Lloyd
16:06:03 [AnnB]: trackbot, end meeting
16:06:03 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
16:06:04 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been elf-pavlik, JHaag, +3539149aaaa, johnbreslin, +1.314.705.aabb, AdamB, Ann, rhiaro, guangyuan, dromasca, +1.541.410.aacc, +1.541.410.aadd,
16:06:04 [elf-pavlik]: AnnB++
16:06:06 [Loqi]: AnnB has 24 karma
16:06:07 [Zakim]: ... Lloyd
16:06:12 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:06:12 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-socialig-minutes.html trackbot
16:06:13 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
16:06:13 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items