16:58:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
16:58:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/30-aria-apg-irc
16:58:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
16:58:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria-apg
16:58:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:58:40 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
16:58:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:58:41 <trackbot> Date: 30 March 2015
16:58:56 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has now started
16:59:04 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
16:59:07 <jamesn> s/Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference/Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
16:59:28 <jamesn> rrsagent, make log world
17:00:03 <Zakim> +Matt_King
17:00:33 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
17:00:47 <Zakim> + +1.512.459.aaaa
17:01:16 <annabbott> annabbott has joined #aria-apg
17:01:17 <jamesn> Agenda+  John's Spin button example http://jongund.github.io/aria-examples/slider/slider-1.html
17:01:17 <jamesn> Agenda+ Example coding practices
17:01:17 <jamesn> Agenda+ Planning for next public wor
17:01:25 <Zakim> + +1.217.244.aabb
17:02:00 <annabbott> zakim, aaaa is Ann Abbott
17:02:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaaa is Ann Abbott', annabbott
17:02:21 <annabbott> zakim, aaaa is AnnAbbott
17:02:22 <Zakim> +AnnAbbott; got it
17:02:32 <jemma> jemma has joined #aria-apg
17:02:44 <jamesn> zakim, aabb is Jemma
17:02:45 <Zakim> +Jemma; got it
17:02:57 <jamesn> agenda?
17:06:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:06:59 <mattking> scribe: Mmatt_king
17:07:09 <jamesn> zakim, IPcaller is LJWatson
17:07:09 <Zakim> +LJWatson; got it
17:07:28 <jamesn> scribe:mattking
17:07:34 <mattking> zakim, next item
17:07:34 <Zakim> agendum 1. "John's Spin button example http://jongund.github.io/aria-examples/slider/slider-1.html" taken up [from jamesn]
17:07:58 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
17:10:03 <mattking> JN: nit... headingsabove tables should be captions
17:10:20 <mattking> jg: should you be able to use aria-labelledby to set captions
17:10:44 <mattking> JN: yes; guess need to update my checking tool
17:11:03 <mattking> jg: seems to be3 common pattern; preferred by devs over caption
17:11:27 <mattking> jg: OAA also checks for these
17:11:44 <mattking> jg: aria-described should map to summary?
17:11:45 <mattking> JN: yes
17:12:12 <mattking> jg: summary attribute is depricated in html5
17:13:43 <mattking> mk: I think the question of what to do with aria-describedby on table needs to be raised with ARIA WG
17:14:01 <mattking> AA: Why is it required on these tables?
17:14:13 <mattking> JN: that is just what the tool we use requires
17:16:01 <mattking> MK: I want to discuss keyboard behaviors
17:16:25 <mattking> MK: is orientation specified
17:16:33 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria-apg
17:16:34 <mattking> jg: required?
17:16:47 <mattking> jn: not for a horizontal; it is the default
17:17:10 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
17:17:10 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
17:17:28 <jamesn> scribeNick:jamesn
17:18:01 <jamesn> MK: left decreases, right increases. I would expect down to increase and up to decrease but the opposite is happening
17:18:43 <jamesn> MK: down is moving further ahead in a document so would increase the value. I would have though right, down and pagedown and end would all move in the same direction
17:19:03 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-apg
17:19:04 <jamesn> BG: that follows the paradigm I have used in the past
17:19:30 <jamesn> AA: That is exactly the opposite of what we have in the current authoring practices
17:20:29 <jamesn> JN: if we honeslty believe it is wrong I would like to get wider input
17:21:28 <jamesn> BG: if you have a vertical slider then down arrow moves the slider down. but if you have a horizontal slider
17:21:32 <jamesn> BG: it moves it opposite
17:21:35 <jamesn> q+
17:21:51 <jamesn> MK: certain keys move you forward, and others move you backwards
17:22:15 <jamesn> MK: think of it in document context. Down and right move you later, up and left move you earlier
17:22:35 <jamesn> MK: what i am most concerned about is that those groups of keys are all alligned with each other
17:23:14 <jamesn> mk: I don't want to associate a direction with an increase of decrease
17:23:18 <Zakim> -LJWatson
17:23:30 <jamesn> q?
17:25:46 <jamesn> jn: leads to a potential conflict with spinbutton
17:25:49 <jamesn> q+
17:26:07 <jamesn> q+ to ask what does type=range do in the browsers
17:27:10 <jamesn> <discussions on various controls....>
17:30:07 <jamesn> jn: what does input type=range
17:33:16 <mattking> scribe: matt_king
17:33:59 <mattking> JN: fre fox and chrome: up arrow moves right page up moves right; down arrow and page down move left
17:35:24 <mattking> jn: up moves right; page up not implemented
17:36:12 <mattking> jn: in IE, home goes to left and end to right
17:38:06 <mattking> jn: windows slider for fonts, opposite of browsers: in win 8.1
17:38:26 <mattking> jn: win 8.1 up moving left and down moving right
17:38:59 <mattking> jn: sound slider is opposite of the font, up moves it right
17:40:11 <mattking> mk: with all the current  implementation, changing current practice to get consistency is probably not worthwhile battle
17:41:22 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
17:41:55 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
17:46:52 <mattking> jn: Add a note to the effect that real world example exist where pgup/pgdn/up/down are opposite of recommendation and there agood reasons for this in some circumstances
17:48:07 <jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28376
17:49:30 <mattking> jn: are we comfortable putting this in apg even though it doesn't work in IOS?
17:49:50 <mattking> jn: role=slider is completely broken in ios; input type=range works
17:50:07 <mattking> mk: Yes, I think we should put in the guide; it is IOS bug
17:50:34 <mattking> jn: I am in process of creating ios bug
17:50:51 <mattking> zakim, next topic
17:50:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next topic', mattking
17:51:00 <mattking> zakim, next item
17:51:00 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, mattking
17:51:32 <mattking> q?
17:52:05 <jamesn> ack me
17:52:05 <Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to ask what does type=range do in the browsers
17:52:16 <mattking> zakim, next item
17:52:16 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Example coding practices" taken up [from jamesn]
17:53:20 <mattking> jg: AT testing results is advisory. I think this is useful. A lot of developers do not have much AT experience
17:53:32 <mattking> AA: maintenance night mare, perhaps
17:53:43 <mattking> jg: we do not have to change it as AT changes
17:54:13 <mattking> aa: if you call out problem with certain combo, you should date it
17:55:15 <mattking> mmk: I don't think we should call out AT problems
17:55:28 <mattking> jg: maybe we just log observed behaviors
17:56:34 <mattking> mk: Maybe we just put in info about observed behaviors for AT that work
17:56:49 <mattking> mk: not sure we should put in any issues like bugs
18:00:33 <mattking> mk: if we are going to do this, i think it should be consistent across all examples.
18:00:58 <mattking> jg: this info could be in json objects so it is reusable
18:02:18 <mattking> mk: not sure if that is worthwhile at this time; nice idea but not sure if the AT info would be relavant without the attached example
18:02:39 <mattking> jg: could help us with our own maintenance of the examples
18:03:28 <mattking> jg: I will next work on a vertical slider, e.g., thermostat
18:09:35 <mattking> mk: can we put role/property/state in one column
18:09:46 <mattking> AA: still lot of people do not know which is which
18:09:57 <mattking> jemma: i like sepaate column
18:10:51 <mattking> mk: could put something like slider (role) in a combined column
18:12:59 <mattking> mk: we should provide links to the spec for the roles, states, and properties
18:16:19 <mattking> mk: there is duplication with the guide itself
18:16:44 <mattking> jn: however every example does not implement all features so this helps people understand what is implemented
18:17:08 <mattking> bg: or in cases where there is more than one way, to use or not to use active descendant
18:17:21 <mattking> jn: really like the example and the supporting info
18:18:03 <mattking> jg: should we put the source in the page?
18:18:23 <mattking> jn: could you just link to it in github
18:19:02 <mattking> mk: if you link to it in github, then you get the whole page vs just the widget
18:22:14 <mattking> rrsagent, make minutes
18:22:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/30-aria-apg-minutes.html mattking
18:22:40 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
18:23:21 <mattking> rrsagent, make log public
18:24:36 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
18:25:21 <Zakim> -AnnAbbott
18:25:50 <Zakim> -Jemma
18:26:10 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
18:26:11 <Zakim> -Matt_King
18:26:13 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has ended
18:26:13 <Zakim> Attendees were Jon_Gunderson, Matt_King, James_Nurthen, +1.512.459.aaaa, +1.217.244.aabb, AnnAbbott, Jemma, LJWatson, Bryan_Garaventa
18:26:23 <mattking> zakim, bye
18:26:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:26:39 <mattking> rrsagent, make minutes
18:26:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/30-aria-apg-minutes.html mattking