20:56:28 RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:56:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/18-indie-ui-irc
20:56:30 RRSAgent, make logs public
20:56:30 Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:56:32 Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:56:33 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
20:56:33 Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:56:33 Date: 18 March 2015
20:56:37 zakim, agenda?
20:56:37 I see nothing on the agenda
20:56:43 Chair: Janina_Sajka
20:56:43 agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
20:56:43 agenda+ WBS on IndieUI Rechartering https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/
20:56:46 agenda+ Future of the IndieUI WG & TF -- Janina
20:56:49 agenda+ Schema.org Mappings -- Rich & Andy [See Below]
20:56:51 agenda+ Checkin with Web Apps' Editing TF [See below]
20:56:54 agenda+ Editors' Reports
20:56:56 agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:56:59 agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:57:02 agenda+ Other Business
20:57:05 agenda+ Be Done
20:57:13 zakim, call janina-mobile
20:57:13 ok, janina; the call is being made
20:57:14 WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
20:57:15 +Janina
20:57:57 zakim, who's here?
20:57:57 On the phone I see Janina
20:57:59 On IRC I see RRSAgent, kurosawa, andy, richardschwerdtfeger, MichaelC, MarkS, janina, hober, joanie, koji, trackbot
20:59:25 +??P0
20:59:32 kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
20:59:41 zakim, unmute me
20:59:41 Janina was not muted, janina
20:59:59 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:00:29 +??P2
21:00:31 +Joanmarie_Diggs
21:00:50 +Katie
21:01:13 +??P4
21:01:15 + +1.609.759.aaaa
21:01:46 zakim, aaaa is Jason_White
21:01:46 +Jason_White; got it
21:02:06 jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:02:09 zakim, ??P4 is Andy_Heath
21:02:09 +Andy_Heath; got it
21:02:12 zakim, mute andy
21:02:12 Andy_Heath should now be muted
21:02:29 zakim, who is on the phone?
21:02:29 On the phone I see Janina, ??P0, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Joanmarie_Diggs, Katie, Jason_White, Andy_Heath (muted)
21:02:32 +[Apple]
21:02:37 zakim, ??P0 is me
21:02:37 +kurosawa; got it
21:02:39 Zakim, Apple is jcraig
21:02:39 +jcraig; got it
21:03:14 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2015Mar/0007.html
21:03:19 zakim, mute me
21:03:19 Janina should now be muted
21:03:30 Zakim, choose a victim
21:03:30 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose kurosawa
21:03:41 Zakim, choose a victi,
21:03:41 I don't understand 'choose a victi,', jcraig
21:03:48 Zakim, choose a vicitm
21:03:48 I don't understand 'choose a vicitm', jcraig
21:03:57 scribe: MichaelC
21:04:22 zakim, unmute me
21:04:22 Janina should no longer be muted
21:04:31 zakim, next item
21:04:31 agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:04:34 zakim, take up item 1
21:04:34 agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:04:51 nothing
21:04:52 zakim, close this item
21:04:52 agendum 1 closed
21:04:53 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:04:53 2. WBS on IndieUI Rechartering https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/ [from janina]
21:05:02 zakim, next item
21:05:02 agendum 2. "WBS on IndieUI Rechartering https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/" taken up [from janina]
21:05:27 how can I unmute me
21:05:32 s/nothing/jw: favorable comments at CSUN towards personalization; rs: general industry favor
21:05:57 +Andy
21:06:07 q+Andy
21:06:46 == on previous topic ==
21:06:52 rs: greater focus on cognitive and learning
21:07:12 now that issues surfacing, excitement
21:07:21 will have collisions between needs of different users
21:07:27 personalization is the only way to resolve
21:07:36 can´t have 1-size-fits-all solutions
21:07:44 this is not new in the Mobile space
21:08:28 khs: 503 regulation from Labor will require federal contractors to have 7% PWD
21:08:51 depends on self identification, which depends on no negative repercussions
21:08:51 ack and
21:09:24 ah: asked to write paper on IndieUI and future of Web for a spanish journal
21:09:28 anybody want to join?
21:09:39 js: would offer feedback
21:09:44 jgw: same
21:10:10 ah: could use help writing the Event model half
21:11:46 js: also note, need to sort out JGW GitHub access
21:12:24 zakim, take up item 2
21:12:24 agendum 2. "WBS on IndieUI Rechartering https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/" taken up [from janina]
21:12:35 == now here for reals ==
21:13:45 q+
21:15:11 js: please complete the survey
21:15:26 zakim, next item
21:15:26 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina
21:15:29 q?
21:15:32 ack a
21:15:36 zakim, close this item
21:15:36 agendum 2 closed
21:15:37 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:15:37 3. Future of the IndieUI WG & TF -- Janina [from janina]
21:15:37 q-
21:15:42 zakim, next item
21:15:42 agendum 3. "Future of the IndieUI WG & TF -- Janina" taken up [from janina]
21:15:58 js: IndieUI WG charter expires 30 April
21:16:23 management has changed procedure and won´t issue extensions unless super-good reason
21:16:43 if this isn´t sorted by the time of expiry, we can´t publish, and people can´t join
21:16:43 the survey above explores options
21:17:03 including moving portions of our specs to other places
21:17:15 seems general support for that
21:17:31 but less clear what we should do with the portions not taken up by other groups
21:18:03 q+
21:18:18 we also might ask how other groups would prioritize things
21:18:37 maybe some work would get taken up quickly but other slowly, when we would want it to go more quickly
21:19:26 ack j
21:19:31 q?
21:19:32 q?
21:19:59 jc: IndieUI was first proposed as part of HTML or CSS or WebApps
21:20:20 all the drafts specifically mentioned we hoped the features would be picked up by those specs
21:20:44 q+
21:20:59 in particular some media features fit well with CSS media
21:21:15 one reason User Context was separate because there is no security model for CSS media features
21:21:25 ack r
21:21:30 CSS WG has since identified that´s something they need to work on
21:21:38 so I think it desirable to work on there
21:21:50 rs: would like a TF between PF and CSS to deliver the features
21:21:59 don´t care specifics of e.g., media queries
21:22:07 but do want to make sure features will get taken up
21:22:16 e.g., some schema.org features haven´t yet been implemented
21:22:26 what else has CSS picked up?
21:22:32 jc: doesn´t happen overnight
21:22:35 -Janina
21:22:38 I've lost audio
21:22:43 font size in queue
21:22:44 zakim, drop janina
21:22:44 sorry, janina, I do not see a party named 'janina'
21:22:54 zakim, call janina-mobile
21:22:54 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:22:55 +Janina
21:23:11 user @@
21:23:15 contrast settings
21:23:21 zakim, drop janina
21:23:21 Janina is being disconnected
21:23:23 -Janina
21:23:35 Working on it
21:23:53 user color
21:23:59 as media feature and css variable
21:24:09 so all the first section until subtitle stuff
21:24:27 subtitle-language key is first that doesn´t fit in
21:24:38 that should be a javascript API, not a CSS media feature
21:24:50 but some others about color and audio description are on the table
21:24:54 rs: so it´s all over the place
21:25:00 can´t point to a single place
21:26:18 jc: most will fit into CSS
21:26:24 but critical waiting on security model
21:26:43 rs: we need a WAI task force to coordinate getting these features with other groups
21:26:44 +Janina
21:26:55 jc: TF instead of just email list?
21:27:05 rs: need to coordinate across multiple entities
21:27:26 jc: we should work on CSS stuff within CSS WG
21:27:42 the security model is the only reason we needed a separate spec
21:28:28 rs: take flexbox - there has been a long discussion in the WG about an approach that might not work there
21:28:42 q?
21:28:43 we need something that won´t cost lots of cycles
21:28:54 jc: everybody has other responsibilities
21:29:02 having a task force to talk about making it happen doesn´t make it happen
21:29:11 need dedicated individuals involved in the work
21:29:15 rs: but need coordination
21:29:22 more than just writing spec text
21:29:26 work with product teams
21:29:36 coord across areas of interest
21:29:55 so for instance, PF and SVG joint task force is leading to things happening
21:30:11 jc: monochrome CSS existed a long time but wasn´t implemented until recently
21:30:22 but still, seeing the progress
21:30:54 this tied to the major operating systems
21:31:07 it took having this within the CSS WG to make it happen
21:31:21 I would rather focus my efforts there where it´s working
21:31:28 rather than spend energy where it isn´t
21:31:49 rs: worried about a piecemeal approach to features
21:31:51 want a more strategic plan
21:31:58 it takes more than just people in the WGs
21:32:06 need people working on examples
21:32:09 putting in toolkits
21:32:17 demonstrating to UA vendors that people will use it
21:32:23 so need a TF
21:32:31 q?
21:32:39 part of the TF is to make sure there are people are in those groups
21:32:40 -Jason_White
21:32:46 don´t think we need our own group, just the TF for coordination
21:33:03 js: @@
21:33:17 q+
21:33:19 requires getting spec written and done in a manner we can promote
21:33:59 rs: we could have a focus group work on e.g., epub
21:34:06 but if they then have to work with CSS...
21:34:19 we´re broadening the points we have to get consensus from
21:34:43 so do we have to join the CSS WG? form sub-teams?
21:34:43 don´t want to wait 3 - 4 years
21:34:44 jc: never done a CSS WG call
21:34:50 met them at TPAC
21:34:54 and worked via email
21:35:01 balance between persistence and providing a good solution
21:35:11 not being so persistent you nag and get sidelined
21:35:21 rs: what if you´re willing to write that portion of the spec?
21:35:28 jc: their editors have been doing it
21:35:38 I didn´t write spec language, but gave substantial details
21:35:52 their editors worked in
21:36:01 q?
21:36:16 rs: so CSS limits editors?
21:36:21 jc: I didn´t ask for editor status
21:36:27 don´t have time
21:36:44 and have been able to get my feature requests attended by the current set of editors
21:36:46 ack r
21:37:12 ack r
21:37:16 zakim, next item
21:37:16 agendum 4. "Schema.org Mappings -- Rich & Andy" taken up [from See Below]
21:37:24 js: this discussion underlines the importance of completing the WBS
21:37:27 ===
21:37:30 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pb92piOlud5sXQadXYnbmtp9LCut26gv8ku-qqZTwec/edit#gid=0
21:38:00 you all know what schema.org is right?
21:38:04 s/you/rs: you/
21:38:14 we want to provide preferences that map to schema.org metadata
21:38:17 could use for search
21:38:43 harmonize vocabulary for determining content with that used by search engine providers
21:38:56 have mapped preference data to this
21:39:23 basically we want interoperable content that supports AAPI
21:39:37 zakim, mute me
21:39:37 Janina should now be muted
21:40:10 interoperability settings category shows how this is achieved
21:40:25 don´t have a clear answer on whether this should also drive search
21:40:34 zakim, unmute me
21:40:34 Janina should no longer be muted
21:40:49 ARIA for example can be used for more than just screen readers
21:40:51 voice input
21:40:53 search engines
21:41:11 these values came out of schema.org
21:41:32 js: in early Feb we agreed we want search
21:41:58 rs: a platform could easily provide this to application
21:42:08 have not decided whether it should fall under security model
21:42:16 should it be user-accessibility-api?
21:42:33 khs: the schema.org setting?
21:42:50 rs: yes - i.e., only provide to a site if security model permits
21:43:11 js: some media features are exposed by default because no concerns about PII
21:43:23 but things about AT use are too personal to expose by default
21:43:43 subtitles is in between, so needs case by case setting
21:43:52 rs: think anything with user- controlled by security features?
21:43:55 jc: not necessarily
21:44:04 is to differentiate from author-provided settings
21:45:03