22:58:15 RRSAgent has joined #auto 22:58:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/17-auto-irc 22:58:20 Zakim has joined #auto 23:03:12 urata has joined #auto 23:03:21 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2015Mar/0010.html 23:03:38 Qing_An has joined #auto 23:03:51 Abramski has joined #auto 23:04:23 has the meeting started? 23:04:56 not yet 23:05:15 is webex link working? i seem to be waiting for someone to start the meeting. 23:05:16 Paul has joined #auto 23:05:27 ok thanks Ted 23:05:40 Kepeng has joined #auto 23:05:41 I'm sitting in a training course so will be listening in 23:05:43 Hello... I apologize but I had to switch meeting coordinates due to conflict 23:05:49 1. Please join my meeting. https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/863829085 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone. Dial +1 (646) 749-3112 Access Code: 863-829-085 Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting Meeting ID: 863-829-085 GoToMeeting® Online Meetings Made Easy® 23:05:52 hey guys 23:06:10 Please use the ones I just sent 23:06:13 djensen47 has joined #auto 23:06:28 ok, thanks 23:06:49 Cindy_Lewis has joined #auto 23:07:17 djensen47 has left #auto 23:07:27 cmatichuk-pandora has joined #auto 23:07:30 djensen4_ has joined #auto 23:07:37 sam has joined #auto 23:08:03 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/863829085 23:08:33 Go To Meeting is showing "Waiting for Organizer" 23:08:46 <_07236> _07236 has joined #auto 23:08:46 Justin_LGE has joined #auto 23:08:54 Introductions Review Charter (http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/charter) Scope Deliverables Milestones Existing Spec Overview http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/vehicle_spec.html http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/data_spec.html Next Steps Schedule Detailed Spec Review Meeting Proposals/Suggestions for Realizing Deliverables (specs) General Meeting Schedule Potential Members 23:09:12 :) 23:09:50 Please switch to your GoToMeeting to this 23:09:51 https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/863829085 23:09:59 Seonman has joined #auto 23:14:16 Present: Paul, Adam, Greg, Cindy, Craig, Dave, Josh, Justin, Kaz, Kepeng, Paul_Wheller, Qing, Seonman, Urata 23:15:21 Present+ So 23:17:17 just listening :) 23:17:28 Present+ Ted, Raj 23:17:44 Present+ Vadim 23:18:21 -> http://www.w3.org/blog/auto/ Auto WG homepage 23:18:41 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/charter Auto WG Charter 23:18:50 scribenick: ted 23:18:51 Paul: any questions regarding the charter 23:19:29 ... it basically lays out the deliverables. primary are the vehicle api and data spec. what we produce can varying but will be based on this starting off point 23:19:48 ... there may be non-normative documents such as use cases, guidelines etc 23:20:08 ... we are expected to be at REC (W3C Recommendation) status by Q3 of 2016 23:20:25 ... with other milestones in between 23:21:31 ... one of the challenges in the Business Group (BG) as Alibaba noted is depth of use cases as that is based on who will be implementing 23:21:58 ... also the data availabe may be varied. what is exposed even varies within a single OEM 23:22:19 ... if you are looking at the charter, there are a number of liaisons listed with a number of other W3C WG 23:22:58 ... such as Geo, Media... 23:23:31 Raj_Openstream_ has joined #auto 23:23:31 ted: kaz is the contact for tv and geo 23:23:48 ... there is a TV Control API CG as well 23:24:10 ... they're working on TV control API 23:25:21 ted: @@@ on coordination and logistics 23:25:27 i/contact/team contact/ 23:25:35 s/contact/team contact/ 23:25:48 Paul: we are also coordinating extensively with Genivi, @@@ and AutoSAR on different levels 23:25:51 i/kaz is/scribenick: kaz/ 23:26:16 i/on coordination/scribenick: ted/ 23:26:30 ... we are here to really focus on getting data out of the vehicle. things like security clearly need to be addressed 23:26:37 s/@@@ and/AGL and/ 23:26:41 ... the group might identify other areas 23:27:22 Greg: a quick question regarding BG and WG. Do you believe we have buy-in from OEMs? 23:27:39 Paul: there are two OEM on the call, GM and JLR 23:28:12 ... Vadim, can you answer that OEM intend to implement 23:28:23 ... I cannot give a universal yes 23:28:26 q+ to make sure the minutes from this group will be public based on the charter 23:28:49 Vadim: probably not every OEM is committed to this. as long as there is no standard it is a free for all 23:29:16 ... if they are not following this then they have to create their own APIs and that will likely cost them more in the long run 23:29:37 ... GM is very interested in working these out and there is a unified ecosystem 23:30:06 Paul: i work with Mazda who is interested but not a Member. Paul from JLR has already done some exploratory 23:30:38 PaulW: we will be mixed initially with standard and custom but intend to be more web standard based 23:31:00 Vadim: it might be a combination based on the different developer (eg tier 1 & 2) communities 23:31:11 q? 23:31:32 and the only way a spec can go to final state is if we have 2 or more implementations of the spec 23:31:42 Kepeng: is the right way to go ahead with use cases on the wiki or do you recommend something else? 23:32:57 Paul: yes, we want people enthusiastically contributing these. some might not get agreement by the rest, they might be considered out of scope 23:33:26 q+ 23:33:39 ... for example we want to avoid being domain specific about navigation use cases within the scope of the vehicle api specification 23:33:58 ... the navigation use cases should be aligned with a navigation api when we take that up 23:34:13 Vadim: one of the challenges is how granular we get into use cases 23:35:03 ... each api is a self describing use case. they are useful in a large scale solution in a bigger infrastructure than at a lower level api 23:35:19 ... that is probably why the BG did not spend that much time exploring them 23:35:33 Paul: does that make sense? 23:35:43 Kepeng: yes, and we will try to improve the use cases 23:36:17 Paul: i want to encourage that work because it is helpful for broader discussions 23:36:48 ... i am fine with the format you chose and provided another alternate that seemed useful 23:36:48 q? 23:36:58 l 23:37:00 kaz, you wanted to make sure the minutes from this group will be public based on the charter and to 23:37:32 Kaz: there are already some use case wikis from other groups and we should agree on the template 23:38:02 ... the Web & TV IG were unclear on how to contribute to theirs and how to avoid conflict from different editors 23:38:26 ... each use case should include who contributed to it 23:38:53 Paul: there seems to be multiple ways of doing it and no one prescribed way 23:39:09 ... to me the challenge is when there are multiple parties contributing 23:40:17 Ted: i think Kaz just wants to be clear on contributor in case there are clarifying questions 23:41:02 Paul: indeed, author and commenters should both identify themselves 23:42:20 Kaz: charter says all the meeting minutes should be public and just want to clear on that 23:42:22 i/indeeed/kaz: right. we can simply assign one specific author and one specific reviewer, and the commenters should clarify their themselves/ 23:42:32 i/indeed/kaz: right. we can simply assign one specific author and one specific reviewer, and the commenters should clarify their themselves/ 23:42:59 Ted: your call whether to have the meeting invites visible public or not. if we get many interloppers you may want to send logistics to member list but minutes and other proceedings should generally be public 23:43:47 Paul: Adam chose to initially start with specs from Genivi, Tizen, AutoSar @@@ 23:44:03 ... those were the starting points for the BG reports 23:44:22 ... evolved during f2f and teleconference meetings 23:44:31 Present+ hirabayashi 23:45:04 ... we have a laundry list of data elements (about 200) that were considered in addition to the vehicle api spec 23:45:34 ... this is fairly fully implemented in Tizen by Kevron and others 23:46:06 Greg: i just want to be sure about the documents 23:46:20 rrsagent, make log public 23:46:24 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/data_spec.html Data Spec 23:46:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 23:46:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/17-auto-minutes.html kaz 23:46:30 https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/ 23:46:39 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/vehicle_spec.html Vehicle API 23:46:56 Paul: yes you can find them linked from the BG homepage 23:47:26 ... methods for accessing the data and second for the data 23:47:41 Greg: is this an exhaustive list of the data that this group is interested in accessing? 23:48:05 Paul: interested in others' opinions. this is a start. we started with a superset and whittled down, it can grow 23:48:34 ... the JLR guys did an analysis about what they could access due to legal, logistic or other constraints 23:49:00 ... we did the same excercise at OpenCar and were limited to about 90 with the vehicles we are implementing around 23:49:17 ... there is plenty that didn't make the list that is available on a CAN bus 23:49:35 ... it would be useful to go through the exercise of what is missing and desired 23:49:39 Is that JLR presentation available? 23:50:03 @@link to JLR presentation 23:50:50 Is it the "JLR Ann Arbor Presentation"? 23:50:57 Vadim: there is some work that from other data sources besides sensors or CAN that is desireable such as navigation or from entertainment system 23:51:25 Paul: does that answer your question? 23:51:56 Greg: yes. there is perhaps a different more extensive list and as noted varied by OEM 23:52:29 s|@@link to|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-autowebplatform/2014Dec/att-0000/JLR_to_W3C_Presentation_presented_at_genivi.pdf| 23:52:50 s/JRL presentation/JRL presentation (Member only) 23:53:07 ... curious going forward what sort of extraction capabilites are being discussed. it might be useful to identify types of data instead of specific actual data points 23:53:43 Paul: we're talking primarily CAN for now. there are something like 3,000 data elements available 23:53:52 s/desireable/desirable/ 23:54:23 q? 23:54:29 ... one of the starting areas for discussion is identifying the sources of the data (so it can be grouped together rationally) 23:54:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 23:54:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/17-auto-minutes.html kaz 23:55:31 s/JLR presentation/JLR presentation (Member only)/ 23:55:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 23:55:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/17-auto-minutes.html kaz 23:55:38 @@@: would it just be for cataloging purposes or also for improving 23:55:48 Paul: certainly we can improve upon it during review 23:57:05 ... we are going to have nearly the same call next week for those in different timezones. i'll send a poll out to see who is interested in review of data spec 23:57:56 q+ 23:58:18 we need a call for editors as well in this group 23:58:18 Ted: i think more frequently initially and can later have different breakout groups 00:00:06 we have a preso on wed morning 00:00:11 at the GENIVI AMM 00:00:29 q? 00:00:59 [discussion on group size, prospects and genivi being a good venue] 00:01:24 q+ 00:02:12 Kaz: regarding inviting people from the BG to the WG, that is OK 00:02:30 ... as observer status 00:03:09 -> http://www.w3.org/2003/12/22-pp-faq.html#non-participants patent policy faq 00:03:10 Paul: the WG F2F is the 23rd and BG is on the 24th 00:03:25 ... my understanding is that rooms are filling up 00:04:24 q? 00:04:56 Kepeng: I noticed we need editors, I support this proposal and suggest we find volunteers 00:05:11 ... I am interested in security aspects for interest 00:05:27 we could do this over email as well 00:05:32 +1 00:05:32 I can do that Paul 00:05:52 yes and discuss at the F2F 00:06:28 I have a preso that discusses what the R&R of an editor is and that would be helpful I think 00:06:44 Ted: i encourage people to follow Paul's example and send an intro to the mailing list and give your specifics interests 00:07:42 s/as observer status/as observer status. Note that we need to make sure all the observers are aware of the W3C Patent Policy./ 00:09:06 [discussion on access control and permissions on the registration] 00:09:25 we're dependent on GENIVI and the hotel for a phone, I can ask but it's unlikely 00:10:46 Ted can you send me an email on what your needs are and I can check with GENIVI 00:11:20 Abramski, just an ethernet drop. ideally public IP and not behind NAT 00:11:33 ok thanks 00:11:38 fyi, I always bring my loud speaker and microphone to f2f meetings :) 00:12:22 see you all 00:12:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 00:12:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/17-auto-minutes.html ted 00:12:27 Thanks 00:13:33 s|s/JRL presentation/JRL presentation (Member only)|| 02:08:01 Zakim has left #auto 02:17:00 kaz has joined #auto 03:15:10 kaz has joined #auto 04:06:02 asad has joined #auto 04:12:09 sam has joined #auto 04:49:42 sam has joined #auto