12:53:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg-a11y
12:53:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-irc
12:53:34 <LJWatson> zakim, this will be 2742
12:53:34 <Zakim> ok, LJWatson; I see WAI_SVGTF()9:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
12:53:46 <LJWatson> Meeting: SVG A11y TF telecon
12:54:33 <LJWatson> agenda+ Feedback from CSUN
12:56:01 <LJWatson> agenda+ Requirements and use cases
12:56:12 <LJWatson> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
12:56:22 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
12:56:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
12:57:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #svg-a11y
12:57:28 <Zakim> WAI_SVGTF()9:00AM has now started
12:57:35 <Zakim> +fesch
12:57:57 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
13:00:44 <Zakim> + +1.512.238.aaaa
13:00:52 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:01:06 <LJWatson> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:01:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see fesch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.512.238.aaaa, [IPcaller]
13:01:20 <LJWatson> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:01:20 <Zakim> +LJWatson; got it
13:01:57 <fesch> fesch has joined #svg-a11y
13:02:09 <fesch> chair: fesch
13:03:57 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
13:04:02 <Zakim> + +1.609.759.aabb
13:05:31 <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR has joined #svg-a11y
13:05:52 <chaals> chaals has joined #svg-a11y
13:06:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:07:35 <Zakim> +??P29
13:07:43 <chaals> zakim, [ip is me
13:07:43 <Zakim> +chaals; got it
13:07:58 <AmeliaBR> zakim, ??P29 is me
13:07:58 <Zakim> +AmeliaBR; got it
13:08:19 <chaals> [+1 to Doug - in general people think we are on the right path]
13:09:21 <LJWatson> scribenick: LJWatson
13:09:27 <LJWatson> zakim, take up item 1
13:09:27 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Feedback from CSUN" taken up [from LJWatson]
13:09:52 <LJWatson> DS: We had lots of good feedback. People think we're on the right path.
13:11:16 <LJWatson> JW: Interesting work in similar areas being done, like web components and data representation.
13:11:27 <LJWatson> DS: Also with haptics.
13:12:23 <LJWatson> DS: Think the haptics stuff could end up in CSS. Also chart.ml was interesting - a format neutral chart framework for different media.
13:12:57 <cpandhi> cpandhi has joined #svg-a11y
13:13:21 <AmeliaBR> http://www.onsaito.com/csdv/doc/ChartML.pdf
13:13:35 <LJWatson> DS: We should co-ordinate to make sure what we're doing here doesn't conflict.
13:13:48 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
13:13:48 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Requirements and use cases" taken up [from LJWatson]
13:13:56 <chaals> q+
13:14:29 <fesch> ack chaals
13:14:32 <LJWatson> zakim, take up item 1
13:14:32 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Feedback from CSUN" taken up [from LJWatson]
13:15:04 <LJWatson> CMN: Increasing awareness of cognitive accessibility, and note this is an area where we can do a lot of good or a lot of harm, so we should track.
13:15:46 <LJWatson> RS: CSUN is a much larger gathering of people with disabilities, than blind/low vision people.
13:16:47 <LJWatson> DS: We should include cognitive requirements in the documentation we provide. Should co-ordinate with the Cognitive TF.
13:17:29 <LJWatson> FE: Tried to reach out to James Jackson. PhD candidate doing research into Dyslexia.
13:18:37 <LJWatson> zakim, take up item 2
13:18:37 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Requirements and use cases" taken up [from LJWatson]
13:19:02 <LJWatson> FE: Let's walk through the requirements to see whether we have enough.
13:19:17 <LJWatson> ABR: Need to make sure we haven't missed anything.
13:19:18 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #svg-a11y
13:19:23 <fesch> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility#Color_blind_users
13:19:30 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
13:19:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
13:20:27 <LJWatson> FE reads through requirements for blind people.
13:21:43 <LJWatson> FE: No requirement to visit items that represent data and get values?
13:22:10 <LJWatson> DS: Should add it in.
13:22:26 <LJWatson> FE reads requirements for colour-blind people.
13:22:55 <LJWatson> ACTION: Léonie to add requirement for data values to requirements.
13:22:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1594 - Add requirement for data values to requirements. [on Léonie Watson - due 2015-03-20].
13:23:43 <LJWatson> DS: Going back to requirements for blind people... do we need a requirement for finding the styling of elements/geometry of elements?
13:24:28 <LJWatson> JW: To understand how something is represented and/or for communicating with others, it's useful to query. Written description is only useful if information is included.
13:24:31 <chaals> [+1 to being able to access style/geometry info of an object… ]
13:24:57 <chaals> q+
13:25:36 <chaals> q-
13:25:53 <LJWatson> ABR: Good idea for a requirement.
13:26:29 <chaals> q+
13:26:44 <LJWatson> JW: Restricted to elements with semantic value.
13:27:23 <LJWatson> ACTION: Léonie to add requirement for querying style/geometry information, for blind and colour-blind people.
13:27:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1595 - Add requirement for querying style/geometry information, for blind and colour-blind people. [on Léonie Watson - due 2015-03-20].
13:28:23 <LJWatson> CMN: Use case colour blind user trying to follow a non-colour-blind user's instruction to choose the red button.
13:28:52 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
13:28:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
13:31:29 <LJWatson> ABR: We can give author's advice, but also need browser support for querying information.
13:31:36 <LJWatson> CMN: Editing the wiki now.
13:32:01 <LJWatson> JW: Could be a browser extension to pull out colour information.
13:32:09 <LJWatson> RS: YOu want that, or authoring advice?
13:32:12 <LJWatson> JW: Both.
13:32:51 <chaals> q+
13:33:13 <LJWatson> DS: An authoring requirement that says people should describe colours seems unlikely. Should be a UA requirement if anything.
13:33:23 <chaals> q-
13:33:58 <AmeliaBR> There are color-finding plugins for design purposes, e.g.: http://www.colorzilla.com/
13:34:57 <LJWatson> RS: We need to include personalisation.
13:35:18 <LJWatson> RS: Have a proposal for schema.org integration relating to personalisation.
13:35:43 <LJWatson> JW: Should co-ordinate with IndieUI.
13:36:29 <LJWatson> FE reads through requirements for low vision people who don't use an AT.
13:36:46 <LJWatson> RS: Pan and zoom capability would be good.
13:37:23 <chaals> [+1 - pan and zoom is really important]
13:37:26 <LJWatson> DS: Might also be a useful requirement for cognitive disabilities, zoom in to remove extraneous information from view.
13:37:47 <LJWatson> JW: With tactile graphics also might want to limit the amount of information presented.
13:38:46 <LJWatson> DS: A snapshot feature is being discussed for SVG. Possible we could define print requirements, so only the content in the viewport is printed.
13:39:34 <LJWatson> ABR: Zoom/pan is currently dependent on browser capability, and the entire content would be printed regardless of current zoom level.
13:39:57 <LJWatson> DS: Also a rotate feature.
13:40:00 <chaals> [+1 to rotate…]
13:41:40 <LJWatson> DS: When Firefox and other UA were introducing SVG support, there was resistance to interface behaviours being defined.
13:42:01 <LJWatson> ABR: Things have changed in 10 years, might be worth looking at this again.
13:42:19 <LJWatson> FE: We can ask.
13:42:32 <LJWatson> DS: We don't want non-interoperability.
13:43:26 <AmeliaBR> s/in 10 years,/in 10 years, for example video and audio elements require browsers to add user interface controls;/
13:43:26 <LJWatson> DS: Without consistency, people won't know how to interact with SVG from one example to another.
13:43:37 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
13:43:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
13:44:19 <LJWatson> FE: THink pan/zoom/rotate should be a general requirement?
13:44:30 <LJWatson> ABR: As long as it's in there somewhere.
13:45:02 <LJWatson> ACTION: Léonie to add zoom/pan/rotate requirement to wiki.
13:45:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1596 - Add zoom/pan/rotate requirement to wiki. [on Léonie Watson - due 2015-03-20].
13:45:41 <LJWatson> FE: Should there be a requirement for playing well with high-contrast mode?
13:45:57 <LJWatson> ABR: "Should play well" is a good broad requirement.
13:46:04 <LJWatson> +1 to playing well with HCM.
13:46:58 <LJWatson> RS: Are aural style sheets dead?
13:47:14 <LJWatson> DS: Pretty much, yes.
13:48:03 <chaals> q+ to suggest that controls can be positioned and adjusted independently of zoom/pan… (as we do for things like maps already, because it's necessary)
13:48:04 <LJWatson> DS: Haptic style sheets, audio style sheets (not aural) with things like the Web Audio API, might revive the idea.
13:48:33 <LJWatson> RS: We think in single modality/visual. Need to think differently - about alternative modalities.
13:49:28 <LJWatson> ABR: There is also cross-over - smart phone tools that read pages are not AT.
13:49:51 <LJWatson> RS: So either audio style sheets, or programmatic access to speech?
13:50:03 <LJWatson> DS: Would need a champion within CSS.
13:50:11 <LJWatson> ABR: Plus implementation support.
13:50:21 <LJWatson> FE: What does an audio style sheet do?
13:50:45 <LJWatson> CMN: It lets you adapt speech output, switch accents, alter volume etc.
13:52:01 <chaals> close action-1596
13:52:01 <trackbot> Closed action-1596.
13:52:12 <LJWatson> FE: Do we need a category for low vision people who do use AT?
13:52:48 <LJWatson> DS: Should we list different kinds of low vision users?
13:53:08 <chaals> [I am going to go ahead and scribble in the wiki about this, so we can look at it next week too]
13:53:16 <LJWatson> DS: For example someone who has narrow scope of vision will have different requirements from someone who has poor colour differentiation.
13:54:58 <LJWatson> FE: We don't have time to look at requirements for cognitive disabilities today. There are visual requirements that will be important for them though.
13:55:22 <LJWatson> ABR: This is an argument for browser/personalisation.
13:55:49 <LJWatson> FE: Yes. Like the GPII thing for example.
13:56:23 <AmeliaBR> s/them though./them though, such as avoiding high-contrast black and white./
13:56:29 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
13:56:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
13:57:06 <AmeliaBR> s/personalisation/personalisation, because some user requirements are conflicting (high or low contrast)/
13:57:45 <LJWatson> FE: Need more requirements for people with mobility disabilities. For example they don't get tooltips.
13:57:55 <LJWatson> ABR: That's an issue on touch devices too.
13:58:43 <LJWatson> zakim, list participants
13:58:43 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been fesch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.512.238.aaaa, LJWatson, Doug_Schepers, +1.609.759.aabb, [IPcaller], chaals, AmeliaBR
13:59:09 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
13:59:33 <Zakim> -LJWatson
13:59:34 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
13:59:34 <Zakim> -chaals
13:59:36 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
13:59:36 <Zakim> - +1.512.238.aaaa
13:59:38 <Zakim> -fesch
13:59:41 <Zakim> - +1.609.759.aabb
13:59:44 <Zakim> -AmeliaBR
13:59:45 <cpandhi> cpandhi has left #svg-a11y
13:59:45 <Zakim> WAI_SVGTF()9:00AM has ended
13:59:45 <Zakim> Attendees were fesch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.512.238.aaaa, LJWatson, Doug_Schepers, +1.609.759.aabb, [IPcaller], chaals, AmeliaBR
14:00:01 <LJWatson> zakim, please part
14:00:01 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg-a11y
14:00:09 <LJWatson> rrsagent, please part
14:00:09 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-actions.rdf :
14:00:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Léonie to add requirement for data values to requirements. [1]
14:00:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-irc#T13-22-55
14:00:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Léonie to add requirement for querying style/geometry information, for blind and colour-blind people. [2]
14:00:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-irc#T13-27-23
14:00:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Léonie to add zoom/pan/rotate requirement to wiki. [3]
14:00:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/13-svg-a11y-irc#T13-45-02
14:00:13 <AmeliaBR> Thanks for scribing again, Leonie