14:25:25 RRSAgent has joined #wpay 14:25:25 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-wpay-irc 14:25:36 zakim, code? 14:25:36 sorry, manu, I don't know what conference this is 14:25:41 zakim, this is wpay 14:25:41 sorry, manu, I do not see a conference named 'wpay' in progress or scheduled at this time 14:25:44 zakim, this is #wpay 14:25:44 sorry, manu, I do not see a conference named '#wpay' in progress or scheduled at this time 14:25:56 zakim, room for 15 for 90 minutes? 14:25:57 ok, manu; conference Team_(wpay)14:25Z scheduled with code 9729 (WPAY) for 90 minutes until 1555Z 14:28:08 Ya, good question 14:28:44 (although I should finish my action item :( ) 14:28:54 items ;( 14:29:10 s/items ;(// 14:29:11 s/Ya, good question// 14:29:25 s/(although I should finish my action item :( )// 14:29:29 s/(although I should finish my action item :( )// 14:29:34 padler has joined #wpay 14:30:06 Team_(wpay)14:25Z has now started 14:30:13 +Erik 14:30:31 + +1.312.322.aaaa 14:30:35 zakim, code? 14:30:35 the conference code is 9729 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), manu 14:30:37 +Davd_Ezell 14:30:44 Zakim, aaaa is me 14:30:44 +padler; got it 14:30:48 zakim, davd is me 14:30:48 +dezell; got it 14:30:56 +[IPcaller] 14:31:00 +Ian 14:31:03 zakim, I am [IPc 14:31:03 ok, manu, I now associate you with [IPcaller] 14:31:07 zakim, who is on the call? 14:31:07 On the phone I see Erik, padler, dezell, [IPcaller], Ian 14:31:35 jean-yves has joined #wpay 14:32:02 +Katie_Haritos-Shea 14:32:08 Ryladog_ has joined #wpay 14:32:58 + +33.6.51.24.aabb 14:33:11 scribenick: manu 14:33:14 scribe: manu 14:33:22 * Zakim, aabb is me 14:33:30 zakim, aabb is jean-yves 14:33:30 +jean-yves; got it 14:33:35 zakim, who is on the call? 14:33:35 On the phone I see Erik, padler, dezell, [IPcaller], Ian, Katie_Haritos-Shea, jean-yves 14:33:57 +[IPcaller.a] 14:33:59 dezell: We have a new streamlined agenda. 14:34:05 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0009.html] 14:34:09 zakim, [ipcaller.a is me 14:34:09 +chaals; got it 14:34:11 zakim, [IPcaller.a] is chaals 14:34:11 sorry, manu, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller.a]' 14:34:36 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0009.html 14:34:46 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0049.html 14:34:59 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0049.html 14:35:19 dezell: Any changes to the agenda? 14:35:21 +Dsr 14:35:23 No changes 14:35:39 Topic: Proposal for ongoing minutes management 14:35:44 dezell: Any questions about agenda as proposed? 14:35:51 s/about agenda/about proposal/ 14:35:52 +1 to the proposal for managing minutes 14:35:56 dezell: Any objections on adopting it? 14:36:03 manu: +1 to proposal for managing minutes 14:36:20 RESOLVED: Accept new minutes management proposal located here: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0023.html 14:36:33 Topic: Review group goals 14:36:37 dezell: Any updates on this? 14:36:43 chaals: in process - working on it now. 14:36:50 dezell: This is what we discussed in Utrecht? 14:37:14 chaals: yes, there is a need to clarify some of the points, obviously, but I'll send a cleaner email out... it's straight-forward stuff. 14:37:30 chaals: And it's only aspirational - this is what we want to achieve. 14:37:52 dezell: Two any other business topics - face-to-face and telecon times... waiting until then to discuss. 14:37:57 Topic: Work Review 14:38:19 dezell: Lots of pointers any updates, Manu? 14:38:22 scribenick: Ian 14:38:34 manu: I feel like we are making good progress. 14:38:49 ...we have good feedback from Laurent; Ian is looking at template; overall we are making progress 14:38:56 q+ to restate where the requirements went 14:38:57 evert has joined #wpay 14:39:06 ...only concern I have is we need to iterate quickly over template. 14:39:28 manu: We are also attempting to put the glossary in one place and be able to import it into the use cases...that work is ongoing 14:39:47 ...there's a lot of work to be done, but iterations happening rapidly. 14:40:21 ...my proposal is to have the templates nailed down, figure out what to do with examples, then decide when to get to FPWD 14:40:36 q? 14:40:43 +??P18 14:40:44 zakim, who's making noise? 14:40:50 zakim, mute erik 14:40:50 Erik should now be muted 14:40:55 zakim, ??p18 is me 14:40:55 +evert; got it 14:40:57 Ian, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dezell (61%), Erik (48%), Ian (33%) 14:41:15 dezell: Any time frame for finishing the template 14:41:25 manu: by next week. 14:41:29 ...Ian and I are speaking today 14:41:40 IJ: I would ask for next week. 14:41:53 manu: Once that happens, it's a matter of crunching through the use cases to make them fit 14:42:04 ...at the use cases telconf next week 14:42:12 i/dezell: Two any other/@@@ 14:42:32 scribenick: manu 14:42:38 q+ 14:42:40 s|@@@|-> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/ExecSummary Chaals first draft of 'what we are aiming for'| 14:42:41 ack dezell 14:42:41 dezell, you wanted to restate where the requirements went 14:42:59 dezell: Just to be clear - just because we've removed requirements for now, and put in preconditions/postconditions, that doesn't mean that requirements will be gone forever. 14:43:10 dezell: Requirements are soft unless you have glossary figured out. 14:43:16 ack ian 14:43:44 Ian: There are a bunch of actions listed in the agenda items - wonder if we think any of those can be closed? 14:44:22 manu: I don't think many can be closed rightness 14:44:25 manu: I can respond to the mailing list and recommend closing them. 14:44:25 s/rightness/right now 14:44:43 dezell: If you click on Use Case task force - you can see all in order. 14:45:17 manu: Don't want to spend telecon time closing them - we can do via email. 14:45:58 dezell: Any pending questions from the use cases task force? 14:46:05 manu: Not yet - we need to figure out the use cases template. 14:46:24 [IJ: Suggest people reply to action status by email to speed things up[ 14:46:31 zakim, who's here? 14:46:31 On the phone I see Erik (muted), padler, dezell, [IPcaller], Ian, Katie_Haritos-Shea, jean-yves, chaals, Dsr, evert 14:46:33 On IRC I see evert, Ryladog_, jean-yves, padler, RRSAgent, Zakim, dezell, chaals, dsr, wseltzer, Erik, Ian, dlehn, Karen, manu 14:46:45 manu: I propose that we go with what the use cases task force template for FPWD... if people have objections that's fine, we should still publish unless they are very strong objections. 14:47:21 dezell: Is it okay if we can integrate this glossary conversation with use cases, Evert? 14:47:34 evert: That's fine, I've been adding graphics/images to glossary. 14:47:37 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Context 14:48:17 evert: At this point in time - these are drawings and economic transaction steps that we've discussed. Basic plan is to write a narrative around that. What are elements in a payment? They should be neutral to use cases, just describe the roles. 14:48:24 evert: Then we can see if roles/objects make sense. 14:48:32 q+ to discuss integration with use cases. 14:48:33 + +33.1.55.01.aacc 14:48:46 Laurent_ has joined #wpay 14:48:47 evert: So glossary is a set of definitions - context part should give a generic feel on steps/roles. 14:48:50 q+ to ask about combined meeting 14:48:55 zakim, unmute erik 14:48:55 Erik should no longer be muted 14:49:13 zakim, [IPcaller] is Manu 14:49:13 +Manu; got it 14:49:45 zakim, mute Erik 14:49:45 Erik should now be muted 14:50:22 manu: Re glossary, ok to work in the wiki for now, but we will need to move it to an HTML doc and import the terms into the use cases doc and other places as well (shared glossary) 14:50:28 q+ 14:50:33 ...and a mechanical question of how we integrate into the tools we are using. 14:50:40 ack IPcaller 14:50:45 ack [IPcaller] 14:50:45 [IPcaller], you wanted to discuss integration with use cases. 14:51:03 q+ to say glossary is as much a tool as a publication… the goal is to minimise it in the end. 14:51:08 evert: not sure how the process should work. 14:52:09 manu: All you'll need to do is ensure the html doc is up-to-date, and we'll import. 14:52:31 evert: Are you going to be able to be on the call on Thursday? 14:52:42 dezell: Can we defer this to that meeting? 14:52:48 s/evert:/dezell: Evert, / 14:52:53 evert: I will be able to be on that call. 14:53:04 q? 14:53:08 ack dezell 14:53:08 dezell, you wanted to ask about combined meeting 14:53:54 chaals: One of the reasons of having a glossary is to understand what we're writing - we should be using terms consistently, but where possible, to identify terms that we should replace w/ actual english that people should understand. 14:54:02 q+ on the magnified importance of the glossary for this IG 14:54:11 chaals: In that sense - the glossary is tool for understanding if we're communicating correctly w/ the outside world. 14:54:12 ack chaals 14:54:12 chaals, you wanted to say glossary is as much a tool as a publication… the goal is to minimise it in the end. 14:54:16 q- 14:54:23 chaals: It's a useful discipline to try and help people understand what our work is about. 14:54:30 ack dezell 14:54:30 dezell, you wanted to comment on the magnified importance of the glossary for this IG 14:55:17 dezell: The glossary in our case is more important in our case that most other W3C WGs. W3C membership can't really come back and criticize our terminology, but as we expose the work to the outside world - it's really important that we get it right. 14:55:18 dezell: Anything else to say about use cases / glossary? 14:55:35 Topic: Payment Agent 14:55:41 q+ 14:55:49 ack padler 14:55:53 dezell: Any updates? 14:56:11 padler: I just want to bring up - Joerg has been out, trying to refine diagrams. 14:56:26 padler: As I was reviewing the use cases - there was some indication in use cases - user would select payment agent. 14:56:36 padler: You would select a payment agent associated w/ particular payment type. 14:56:44 padler: The payment agent might contain multiple payment instruments. 14:56:50 q+ 14:57:01 padler: So, don't want to go into details - but there is some misalignment here and we need to discuss. 14:57:10 padler: We need to clean up expectations around that area. 14:57:20 q+ to mention that this is a problem. 14:57:29 dezell: There is a harmonization issue? 14:57:52 q+ to ask about an action for coordination 14:57:56 padler: Don't know if it's harmonization or if there is an issue w/ clarifying stuff - divergence could be a bad thing here. 14:58:04 ack Laurent 14:58:29 Laurent: I sent something out to the mailing list to discuss - there may be multiple payment instruments per payment agent, multiple payment agents per device. 14:58:49 +1 14:58:51 Laurent_: I don't know if it's best to do it in use case task force or payment agent task force. 14:59:05 padler: Yeah, it's in the middle of payment agent and use cases. 14:59:39 padler: You could have multiple browsers - each running a payment agent - there are some concepts - the wallet encapsulates multiple payment agents. 15:00:17 Laurent_: I think we need to focus on what the payment agent has to be. 15:00:30 [IJ Thinks people should start to write down their views so we can read and compare] 15:00:34 +1 15:00:41 +1 to Laurent's comment that people write down what they have in mind 15:00:47 Laurent_: Give a bit of perspective on what people mean when they say "payment agent". 15:00:49 ack manu 15:00:49 Manu, you wanted to mention that this is a problem. 15:01:20 +1 to have discussion in use case task force 15:01:24 manu: I think people who will be talking about this stuff will be in both groups 15:02:10 +1 to the description of multiple payment instruments per payment agent and multiple payment agents per device... 15:02:19 q+ 15:02:20 ack dezell 15:02:20 dezell, you wanted to ask about an action for coordination 15:02:55 q- 15:02:55 dezell: Per Ians comment - there is a coordination need between both task forces. Let's take this to email 15:03:49 dezell: We had a coordination meeting on Monday - we need clear goals. One thing that's clear to us is that the use cases are the thing that drives the other documents. We need to make sure these concepts are ensconced properly in the use cases document. 15:04:02 dezell: Let's try to coordinate as best we can. 15:04:15 dezell: Any other payment agent discussion? 15:04:48 dezell: One more thing about Payment Agent - Pascal - Laurents compatriot - joined us for a non-task force meeting. Pascal is going to be involved in that work. Laurent, you might make sure he signs up to the task force. 15:04:53 Topic: Security 15:05:17 Laurent: Life has got in the way - need volunteers. 15:05:28 manu: I can volunteer to provide feedback... can't do more calls. 15:05:50 q+ 15:06:10 ack padler 15:06:27 padler: I think there are a couple of people as US Fed that may be a good fit for that group. 15:06:33 padler: Stay tuned, will try to get folks. 15:07:05 dezell: There are several possible missions for this task force - identify requirements related to security. The other role for this Task Force is in trying to keep finger on pulse of what's going on out there. 15:07:21 dezell: We are more or less in sync w/ that. We should talk about that whenever you organize the call. 15:07:33 Topic: Communications Strategy 15:07:53 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Communications_Strategy_Task_Force 15:08:09 Ian: I've pasted into IRC a wiki where we've started to do work. 15:08:31 Ian: I don't think we're done w/ the action item - need another week - haven't made a more formal announcement, wanted a more solid proposal in place. 15:08:57 Ian: Going to talk about timeline in a second - some notes about messages. 15:09:24 Ian: People need to go around and talk about this work - we need a shared view for that to happen. 15:09:41 ---- 15:09:42 Drive payments industry acceptance of the the value of the Open Web Platform for achieving some of their goals for ubiquity, security, and usability, as expressed in the use cases developed by industry representatives. 15:09:42 Help the group create deliverables that are understandable and useful to both payments industry specialists and the Web community at W3C. 15:09:43 --- 15:09:48 Ian: This is the direction we're going in - still lots of work to do. One thing is that we've identified goals - we should socialize those. 15:10:21 +10 to Ian for all the effort on this front!! 15:10:28 +10 as well! 15:10:41 s/+10 as well!/manu: +10 as well!/ 15:11:18 Ian: The outcome of this group - you should be able to go to security group, have constructive conversations w/ them, or to ISO and have a conversation w/ them. Those are our communications goals. Comments on all of this are very welcome. 15:11:39 Ian: So, end results will be focused on how to speak at conferences and to the media. We also want to discuss timeline. 15:11:44 Ian: What are we doing and when are we doing it? 15:11:53 Ian: We want to socialize this - see if we can achieve it. 15:12:17 Ian: We can't take it seriously until we dive down into the details. Timeline mixes a number of things - calendar for deliverables, along w/ communications. 15:12:23 Ian: I'm going to filter it out for you here - 15:12:31 Ian: Idea is first draft of use cases are March 18th 15:12:35 q+ 15:13:01 Ian: Use cases task force needs to figure out if that is a realistic date and what to we need to get there? 15:13:28 Ian: Second use cases published about a month later - maybe before Payments 2015. 15:13:37 * padler suggests using both... maybe multilple times... 15:14:04 Ian: In May - we would have W3C's Advisory Committee meeting in paris - let's get competing visions on paper - iron out the differences, maybe there. 15:14:23 Ian: In June - solid first draft of payment agent architecture document. use cases are gelling - architecture is being circulated. 15:14:32 Ian: By august - everyone is on vacation... :P 15:14:59 Ian: By september, we have a roadmap document together - articulated requirements based on draft architecture - W3C please get this work done, or make other groups get the work done. 15:15:22 manu: I think the timeline is great - very aggressive, but clear. 15:15:26 q+ 15:15:30 ack dezell 15:15:40 ack manu 15:15:51 definitely ambitious :) 15:16:19 manu: This timeline is great - thank you Ian. 15:16:35 q+ 15:16:44 dezell: I'm in awe of having someone that can put together a clear message, thank you Ian. 15:16:44 ack Ian 15:17:36 Ian: Looking forward to work with Pat on this - some of these things are under way - had some chats w/ other folks in payments industry wrt. interviews. Capital One and Tyfone are saying they need web payments, we have an interview wrt. that. 15:18:15 Ian: I need to do planning - what does it take to do FPWD drafts... All Task Force leads - I need to work with you on planning to make this proposal real. 15:19:11 Ian: I'm trying to get up to speed - this is all just structure - what's really going on here - it's slow going - reading a lot - thanks to everyone that's pointing me to thing to read. I'll stumble a bit on messaging. Because I'm such a newbie - looking at use cases is important - I still don't get use cases because I'm not deeply embedded in the industry. 15:19:25 Ian: I have the advantage of being ignorant about details of the industry, so that'll help us make this output digestable. 15:19:30 [apologies, standing conflict…] 15:19:33 q? 15:19:34 [chaals leaves] 15:19:40 -chaals 15:19:55 dezell: Yes, great work Ian - much appreciated - how do we move as quickly as possible. 15:19:58 q+ 15:20:05 ack ian 15:20:30 q+ 15:21:27 Ian: We've had some good luck with stories we've published about the work lately. 15:21:28 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Relevant_Conferences_for_the_IG 15:21:46 Ian: We have a few large companies that said that they'd like to get involved in the work as a result, so that's always good to see. 15:22:04 Ian: Those are all the conferences coming up - make a note of it - if you're speaking, make a note of it there. 15:22:20 Ian: It helps us to know when people are speaking - we can reuse their slides, hook into their message, etc. 15:22:39 ack padler 15:25:49 q+ 15:26:13 ack dezell 15:26:19 *may the force be with us... :) 15:26:34 dezell: Any last questions for the communications task force? 15:26:41 Topic: Any Other Business 15:27:04 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73816/wpaytelco/results 15:27:40 dezell: From this poll, the best time for this group is Wednesday at 11:30am ET. It's a bit late for Europe, of all the entries, it has the fewest "Don't want"s. 15:28:04 dezell: So, that's the new telecon time - any violent opposition to this? The new meeting time will take effect next Wednesday. 15:28:10 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73816/wpay201506/results 15:28:15 dezell: Next up - answer this questionnaire... 15:28:21 is it possible to get invites for the calls? 15:28:34 RESOLUTION: Weekly meeting is now 11:30am ET on Wednesdays, starting 3 March 15:28:38 manu: Laurent - you should be getting invites. 15:28:44 (Agenda is invite) 15:28:52 (If you want ics, please ask the chair :) 15:29:20 dezell: The preliminary date seems like June 16th-18th at Bloomberg offices. 15:29:44 Ian: please complete questionnaire - you have until close of day Sunday to fill out this poll - please do so. 15:30:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:30:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:30:15 -padler 15:30:18 -Katie_Haritos-Shea 15:30:19 - +33.1.55.01.aacc 15:30:21 -evert 15:30:21 -Manu 15:30:22 -dezell 15:30:24 * Have a great day All!!! 15:30:26 -jean-yves 15:30:32 -padler 15:30:35 -Ian 15:30:37 -Erik 15:31:41 zakim, who is on the call? 15:31:41 On the phone I see Dsr 15:31:52 zakim, disconnect dsr 15:31:52 Dsr is being disconnected 15:31:53 Team_(wpay)14:25Z has ended 15:31:53 Attendees were Erik, +1.312.322.aaaa, Davd_Ezell, padler, dezell, Ian, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +33.6.51.24.aabb, jean-yves, chaals, Dsr, evert, +33.1.55.01.aacc, Manu 15:32:26 Laurent_ has joined #wpay 15:34:19 Ya 15:35:34 rrsagent, make logs public 15:35:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:35:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:43:50 evert has joined #wpay 15:54:35 Present: Erik, Pat, David_Ezell, Pat_Adler, Ian, Katie, Jean-Yves, Chaals, David_Raggett, Evert, Manu 15:54:56 Chair: David_Ezell 15:55:48 s/* Zakim, aabb is me// 15:56:12 s/* Have a great day All!!!// 15:56:15 s/Ya// 15:56:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:56:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-wpay-minutes.html manu 15:58:21 ShaneM has joined #wpay 15:59:18 zakim, room for 4? 15:59:20 sorry, Ian; could not schedule an adhoc conference; passcode overlap; if you do not have a fixed code you may try again 16:34:57 evert has joined #wpay 16:37:38 evert has left #wpay 17:22:31 ShaneM has joined #wpay 17:24:54 ShaneM_ has joined #wpay 17:35:37 evert has joined #wpay 17:36:25 evert has left #wpay 18:01:38 Zakim has left #wpay 18:55:58 evert has joined #wpay 18:56:03 evert has left #wpay 19:12:24 dsr has joined #wpay 19:14:54 Meeting: Web Payments IG Use Cases Task Force 19:14:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 19:14:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-wpay-minutes.html manu