16:00:58 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:00:58 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-html-a11y-irc
16:01:00 RRSAgent, make logs world
16:01:00 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
16:01:02 Zakim, this will be 2119
16:01:02 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
16:01:03 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:01:03 Date: 29 January 2015
16:01:10 zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:01:10 sorry, LJWatson, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
16:01:15 zakim, this will be 2119
16:01:15 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
16:01:22 zakim,
16:01:22 I don't understand '', LJWatson
16:01:23 who is on the phone?
16:01:25 zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:25 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
16:01:27 On IRC I see RRSAgent, paulc, LJWatson, ShaneM, chaals, zecho, janina, MarkS, liam, joanie, cabanier, sivoais, trackbot
16:01:33 newtron has joined #html-a11y
16:01:49 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
16:01:49 ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM already started
16:01:57 JF has joined #html-a11y
16:01:57 zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:57 On the phone I see ShaneM, ??P15, [IPcaller], JF, [Microsoft]
16:02:02 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:02:03 +paulc; got it
16:02:05 zakim, ??P15 is me
16:02:05 +janina; got it
16:02:22 is on mute
16:02:46 zakim, [IPca is Leonie
16:02:47 +Leonie; got it
16:02:57 Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:02:59 zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:59 On the phone I see ShaneM, janina, Leonie, JF, paulc
16:03:05 zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:03:06 sorry, LJWatson, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
16:03:11 rubys has joined #html-a11y
16:03:16 +Judy
16:03:22 +Sam
16:03:39 agenda?
16:04:36 Chair: Chaals
16:04:36 agenda+ agenda additions?
16:04:36 agenda+ face to face meeting
16:04:36 agenda+ Alt document (bugs, status, plan)
16:04:36 agenda+ Action item review https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:04:38 agenda+ Work Plan http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
16:04:41 agenda+ Wishlist items http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist
16:05:07 zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:07 On the phone I see ShaneM, janina, Leonie, JF, paulc, Judy, Sam
16:05:17 +Liam
16:05:35 scribe: JF
16:05:41 +David_MacDonald
16:05:41 zakim, call chaals-es
16:05:42 ok, chaals; the call is being made
16:05:42 +Chaals
16:05:49 zakim, take up item 1
16:05:49 agendum 1. "agenda additions?" taken up [from janina]
16:06:30 CM: anything missing from agenda?
16:06:38 zakim, close item 1
16:06:38 agendum 1, agenda additions?, closed
16:06:39 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:39 2. face to face meeting [from janina]
16:06:47 zakim, take up item 2
16:06:48 agendum 2. "face to face meeting" taken up [from janina]
16:07:04 David has joined #html-a11y
16:07:27 CM: survey for HTML F2F meeting - HTML folk favored Redmond, and WepApps faovred Spain
16:07:43 no appetite to split meeting however, so wondering next steps
16:08:11 CM: stay tuned. Reminder if there are topics to bring up, speak up to get added to agenda
16:08:17 q+
16:08:24 ack ju
16:08:42 JB: thought there were already 1 or 2 items already surfaced for that agenda.
16:08:54 There is no F2F Wiki yet
16:09:03 So nothing has been recorded.
16:09:09 CM: not made a formal request to add anything to agenda
16:09:15 JS: me either
16:09:28 CM: discussed keyboard navigation focus stuff as a potential topic
16:09:49 JS: may have a better sense later today/this week
16:10:35 CM: assumption that there would be 1 breakout room, but assuming if we had any issues that they would be discussed more broadly
16:10:44 zakim, take up next item
16:10:44 agendum 3. "Alt document (bugs, status, plan)" taken up [from janina]
16:11:29 CM: observation that bugs were filed across multiple places. Liam was to bring feedback.
16:11:54 LQ: slightly delayed, but have been reviewing the documents and suggesting some edits
16:12:17 LQ: Shane and I had a brief call to discuss this, and Shane is making some progress
16:12:43 SM: have been working on that. Discussion around creating a new component or not (being discouraged to do so)
16:13:00 ACTION: Liam to rationalise alt doc bugs to a single component/etc
16:13:01 Created ACTION-302 - Rationalise alt doc bugs to a single component/etc [on Liam Quin - due 2015-02-05].
16:13:06 LQ: confusion around last call and tentative req
16:13:44 CM: sounds like review is imminent - that we should be actively looking at your work
16:13:59 LQ: propose to add to next weeks agenda
16:14:04 [nods around the table]
16:14:25 ACTION: shane to present alt doc changes
16:14:25 Created ACTION-303 - Present alt doc changes [on Shane McCarron - due 2015-02-05].
16:14:40 zakim, take up next item
16:14:40 agendum 4. "Action item review https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
16:15:02 close action-92
16:15:02 Closed action-92.
16:15:29 action-273?
16:15:29 action-273 -- Léonie Watson to Look more closely at https://www.w3.org/bugs/public/show_bug.cgi?id=13508 and add comments -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
16:15:29 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/273
16:15:31 Action-273
16:15:31 Action-273 -- Léonie Watson to Look more closely at https://www.w3.org/bugs/public/show_bug.cgi?id=13508 and add comments -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
16:15:31 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/273
16:15:41 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13508
16:16:09 LW: nothing left to be done - bug can be closed (and action item too)
16:16:15 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:16:28 close action-273
16:16:28 Closed action-273.
16:16:32 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:16:36 LW: turns out support is quite reasonable - down to filing bugs at vendors, and not against spec
16:16:41 RESOLUTION: close bug 13508
16:17:09 CM: asking Judy if Josh Meile has seen the MAUR
16:17:12 close action-295
16:17:12 Closed action-295.
16:17:32 JB: yes, know that Janina and Josh have also been introduced
16:17:42 JS: yes have had some back-and-forth via email
16:17:50 action-296 due in 1 week
16:17:50 Set action-296 Present substantive alt note bugs due date to 2015-02-05.
16:17:53 he will get back to us
16:17:57 Q+
16:18:08 q+ to ask about how long we need to wait
16:18:14 ack john
16:18:15 JS: hope to have more news by next week
16:18:32 ack jf
16:19:10 ack sha
16:19:10 ShaneM, you wanted to ask about how long we need to wait
16:19:11 JB: Josh is ensuring that good guidance on Video Description - time is urgent(ish)
16:19:25 SM: wondering how long we need to wait
16:19:45 JB: initially took connecting Janina and Josh was 3 days
16:19:58 if JF can connect with Josh quickly that would be good
16:21:05 JS: we have a bit of time left still, so waiting on Josh is not a huge issue. M. Cooper and JS have agreed on a publishing schedule which may give us some extra time
16:21:33 JS: going through a new process, so forcasting is still inaccurate
16:21:52 CM: remaining action items on Chaals - delayed
16:22:04 JB: can the TF help any?
16:22:25 CM: there are 2 urgent ones, not huge, but will take some time still
16:22:42 CM and another one that still has some time
16:22:45 zakim, take up next item
16:22:45 agendum 5. "Work Plan http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force" taken up [from janina]
16:23:34 CM: sent out a message talking about current work plan, and it is not clear if that is what we will continue to work on
16:24:07 CM: one is longdesc - question whether that needs to be revised - but does not feel like a high-priority work effort
16:24:25 CM: html platform accessibility guide
16:24:36 JS: can I give an update?
16:25:00 CM: they don't appear to be topics we are focused on - not on calls nor via list
16:25:16 by definition, if it is in HTML, it is open to the TF for review
16:25:49 s/html platform accessibility guide/"html to platform accessibility APIs" and "using aria in HTML" - do we work on them?
16:25:56 JS: useful that it is reviewed here - we can create a category of PF horizontal reviews, but question the usefulness
16:26:00 q+
16:26:05 ack me
16:26:28 JS: response from Steve that he is still working on using aria in HTML
16:26:50 JS: may be a time lapsing issue - maybe some reminders needed
16:27:31 CM: question is, should we be working on these things directly, or leave them out?
16:27:52 CM: Steve F isn't on the call, but has suggested that he is happy working directly inside the HTML WG
16:27:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014May/0062.html
16:28:08 q+
16:28:17 CM: we should coordinate with Steve - we can move items to this group easily enough
16:28:34 CM: Stronger feeling that we NOT look at work outside of the HTML WG scope
16:29:07 CM: this has impacts on things like Patent Policy, which matters
16:29:18 CM: so we should not be taking on items out of scope
16:29:29 JS: we have addressed this in the past (see URL)
16:29:46 JS: not acceptable to PF that these be HTML only work efforts
16:30:13 q+
16:30:18 ack jan
16:30:22 Judy_alt has joined #html-a11y
16:30:27 +Cynthia_Shelly
16:31:03 ACTION-299?
16:31:03 ACTION-299 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Work with richs and make sure html/tf know about plans for accessiiblity mapping documents. -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
16:31:03 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/299
16:31:04 ack pa
16:31:07 JS: Steve has been working on this on his time, but work on html to platform accessibility APIs for example continues
16:31:19 JS: notes that Rich has been working on the document as well
16:31:33 PC: last time we discussed this, we had best advise HTML WG
16:31:37 q+
16:31:53 PC: very little of the HTML work happening on this list or the HTML list
16:32:21 PC: so suggest that if publication is coming, that perhaps someone else did it
16:32:25 Judy_ has joined #html-a11y
16:32:29 it would be good if PF did it directly
16:32:46 CM: sounds like PF wants them on our work plan or a PF work plan
16:32:58 q+
16:33:15 CM: historically, PF has done work on these things - and so perhaps that is good - that PF continues to own this
16:33:19 ack me
16:33:22 ack ju
16:33:34 JB: to +1 on coordination with PF
16:34:17 CM: to return to list of topic items
16:34:29 CM: the alt document - it seems that it belongs here for now
16:34:41 CM: any dissent?
16:34:56 q+
16:34:57 DM: wondering if we need to talk to WCAG about this?
16:35:03 CM: very important
16:35:16 JB: strong interest in that as well from the co-chairs
16:35:35 ACTION: chaals to contact WCAG chairs and work out how to coordinate discussion on alt doc
16:35:35 Created ACTION-304 - Contact wcag chairs and work out how to coordinate discussion on alt doc [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-02-05].
16:35:36 JB: have been encouraging Andrew and Josh to attend these meetings, or add to their agenda
16:35:46 action-304 due in 4 days
16:35:46 Set action-304 Contact wcag chairs and work out how to coordinate discussion on alt doc due date to 2015-02-02.
16:36:16 CM: there are 4 items on the wish list
16:36:26 Focus management (aka accesskey)
16:36:40 transcripts, menus and footnotes
16:36:51 [Judy emphasizes giving them a specific meeting or portion of meeting to attend should be helpful]
16:36:58 are 4 topics we are looking at - none are really documents yet, but may become so
16:37:17 CM: any there we should dismiss? anything that isn't there that we should be working on?
16:37:26 http://davidmacd.com/blog/html51-footnotes.html footnotes
16:37:37 JS: thought we had created a list, but not sure
16:38:00 CM: it maps to the things we agreed - or that some have volunteered to work on
16:38:12 CM: think that date-pickers should be worked on
16:38:26 CM: we may also may want to look at "common panels" work - leonie?
16:38:50 LW: would be good to get some imput from the TF - input would be welcome
16:39:19 CM: can assume that work will happen outside of TF and PF
16:39:29 CM: both - it is straight HTML work
16:40:13 CM: that gives us a sense of where we are headed - goal is to establish a scope for next 6 months of work
16:40:54 CM: hoping for resolution from director on longdesc by no later than end of Feb.
16:41:01 JB: seems to be on track
16:41:10 q?
16:41:17 ack ju
16:41:34 zakim, take up next item
16:41:34 agendum 6. "Wishlist items http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist" taken up [from janina]
16:41:55 CM: anyone want to talk about anything specific on this list?
16:41:56 q+
16:42:05 q+ re date pickers
16:42:14 ack me
16:42:58 CM: the ARIA implementation guidance piles loads of javascript examples for keyboard trapping - so with regard to date-pickers we need to involve the ARIA folk
16:43:11 cyns has joined #html-a11y
16:43:23 s/seems to be on track/I am encouraging a timely resolution, and happy to convey your comment on that./
16:43:36 CM: assertion is that lots of people are spending time making keyboard shortcuts with JS - not very efficient
16:43:48 CM: wondering if anyone here can comment further
16:44:01 JS: ARIA is moving away from specificity to generality
16:44:04 url?
16:44:24 RS: the one area that is "most expensive" to support a11y is the keyboard implementation
16:44:40 RRS: did fill gaps to make things focusable without putting into tab order
16:45:03 [keyboard implementation is problematic outside accessibility, too… we have been trying to deal with it in DOM for a decade or so without success]
16:45:13 RS; what we lack is an easier way to do this - to make it easier for authors to not have to support keyboards all the time
16:45:36 RS; we need a design pattern that is less dependant on modality, and focused on outcome
16:45:47 q+
16:46:20 RS: in Indie UI WG there has been a hiccup as we've lost some people, but goal is to abstract a further to aid authors
16:46:41 CM: there are bits and pieces gathering all over - task to track them down and house in one place
16:47:27 CM: example component will show a demo of HTML, CSS, and a ton of JS built on top of jQuery - feels very heavy weight and is addressed to keyboard stuff
16:47:29 ack cyns
16:47:41 CS: presume you are talking with Ben Peters
16:47:52 CM: yes
16:48:33 RS: It would be really good if we bring all efforts into one spot, as I beleive it ties into webapps
16:48:37 +1 to RS
16:48:39 ack jan
16:48:39 janina, you wanted to discuss date pickers
16:48:45 [+1 to RS]
16:49:10 JS: continue to be interested in date-pickers - don't want to work alone, but happy to bird-dog work effort
16:49:26 q+
16:49:36 CM: was under impression that this wasn't a priority earlier, but seems that may no longer be the case
16:50:01 JS: happy to be involved around that if we are moving it forward now
16:50:23 ack me
16:50:24 LW: have been working on an internal doc around date-pickers, so can start working on that here
16:52:00 scribe: chaals
16:52:31 Is there a summary of the work items that Charles will add to the work statement?
16:52:38 q+
16:52:52 JF_ has joined #html-a11y
16:53:04 Q+
16:53:33