16:45:38 RRSAgent has joined #pf 16:45:38 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-irc 16:45:40 RRSAgent, make logs member 16:45:40 Zakim has joined #pf 16:45:42 Zakim, this will be WAI_PF 16:45:42 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes 16:45:43 Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference 16:45:43 Date: 21 January 2015 16:45:54 Meeting: PFWG telecon 16:45:54 Chair: Janina 16:45:54 agenda: this 16:45:54 agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes 16:45:54 agenda+ Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html 16:45:56 agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open 16:45:59 agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html#tr_LCWD 16:46:01 agenda+ Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/ 16:46:04 agenda+ MAUR Final & Media Subteam [See Below] 16:46:06 agenda+ ARIA.Next Items; AAP; AAPI; D-Pub; ARIA; SVG 16:46:09 agenda+ Other Task Force Updates; COGA; HTML-A11Y; 16:46:11 agenda+ CSS Device Adaptation http://www.w3.org/TR/css-device-adapt/ 16:46:14 agenda+ Enhanced Mail Archiver https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013AprJun/0442.html 16:46:17 agenda+ Other Business 16:46:19 agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273 16:46:22 agenda+ be done 16:49:03 maryjom_ has joined #pf 16:53:37 16:54:29 WAI_PF()12:00PM has now started 16:54:34 +??P5 16:54:40 zakim, ??P5 is me 16:54:40 +janina; got it 16:54:48 zakim, take up item 1 16:54:48 agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina] 16:57:58 JF has joined #PF 16:58:47 +JF 17:01:22 +Mary_Jo_Mueller 17:02:18 +Joanmarie_Diggs 17:03:11 +Fred_Esch 17:03:17 zakim, who's here? 17:03:17 On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch 17:03:19 On IRC I see JF, maryjom_, Zakim, RRSAgent, asurkov, MarkS, yatil, MichaelC, janina, joanie, trackbot 17:03:33 agenda? 17:03:48 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf 17:03:51 scribe 17:04:18 scribe: jf 17:04:18 +??P28 17:04:21 fesch has joined #pf 17:04:33 +James_Nurthen 17:05:04 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger 17:05:21 zakim, take up item 1 17:05:21 agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina] 17:06:17 JS: any comments? Around the table 17:07:18 RS: SVG a11y TF will be doing a walk-through of the a11y mapping on friday at 9:00 AM Boston 17:08:07 zakim, next item 17:08:07 agendum 2. "Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html" taken up [from janina] 17:08:36 RESOLUTION: publish last week's minutes as submitted 17:08:41 zakim, next item 17:08:41 agendum 2 was just opened, JF 17:08:46 zakim, close item 2 17:08:46 agendum 2, Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html, closed 17:08:49 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:08:49 3. Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open [from janina] 17:08:50 zakim, next item 17:08:50 agendum 3. "Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina] 17:09:04 cpandhi has joined #pf 17:09:09 MC: no spec actions that are recent 17:09:16 js: ONE ON cYN, DID THAT GET DONE? 17:09:44 MC: believe she relied on list - the action is closed 17:10:09 (MC quoting Cyn's response) 17:10:38 + +1.512.238.aaaa 17:10:51 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2015Jan/0004.html 17:11:58 JS: welcomes Cho Pandhi, from IBM 17:12:04 zakim, aaaa is Charu_Pandhi 17:12:04 +Charu_Pandhi; got it 17:12:22 JS: will pause and do a round-table introduction 17:12:38 [intros all around] 17:13:19 fzakim, who's on the phone? 17:13:51 zakim. who's on the phone? 17:14:01 zakim, who is on the phone? 17:14:03 On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Charu_Pandhi 17:14:04 zakim, who's here 17:14:06 JF, you need to end that query with '?' 17:18:05 JS: should follow up with web notifications folk to wnsure they have what they need 17:18:16 s/wnsure/ensure 17:18:29 JS: will take that on 17:18:53 ACTION: Janina to follow up with web notifications folk on Cyn's response 17:18:53 Created ACTION-1566 - Follow up with web notifications folk on cyn's response [on Janina Sajka - due 2015-01-28]. 17:19:01 zakim, nest item 17:19:01 I don't understand 'nest item', JF 17:19:07 zakim, next item 17:19:07 agendum 4. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html#tr_LCWD" taken up [from janina] 17:19:54 MC: there are no new LCs - there is something on web performance, but likely not useful for us 17:20:25 scribe: janina 17:20:36 jf: WebVTT looking for evidence of wide review 17:20:54 jf: Discussion about styling support as described in MAUR 17:21:34 jf: Current proposed approach is styling info in head of WebVTT doc 17:21:55 halindrome has joined #pf 17:22:04 jf: Additional info in email post ... 17:24:06 +ShaneM 17:24:48 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Jan/0036.html 17:24:50 zakim, who is here? 17:24:50 On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Charu_Pandhi, ShaneM 17:24:52 On IRC I see ShaneM, cpandhi, fesch, richardschwerdtfeger, JF, maryjom_, Zakim, RRSAgent, asurkov, MarkS, yatil-afk, MichaelC, janina, joanie, trackbot 17:25:10 scribe: JF 17:25:18 JS: we need to ensure that there is a good review 17:28:42 -James_Nurthen 17:28:44 +James_Nurthen 17:29:00 WebVTT Draft: http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/ 17:29:24 JS: we need to follow up on this, but looking for ideas 17:30:23 JS: will watch this. 17:30:29 zakim, next item 17:30:29 agendum 5. "Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/" taken up [from janina] 17:30:57 MC: looking for new Community groups more than 3 months old 17:31:16 -> www.w3.org/community/exploresemdata/ Exploration of Semantic Data CG 17:31:54 JS: suspect we can let that one ride 17:32:10 -> www.w3.org/community/browserobo/ Browsers and Robotics CG 17:33:21 MC: sees a link to a11y, but unless there is interest at our end... 17:33:32 JS: looks like they are not doing anything 17:33:36 zakim, next item 17:33:36 agendum 6. "MAUR Final & Media Subteam" taken up [from See Below] 17:34:27 JS: I have been distracted - have had discussions with Josh Meille (Smith Kettlewell), but have not yet had a chance to have a conference call with him/them 17:34:55 JS: also note that an ISO WG is spending a lot of time looking at captions and sub-titles 17:35:18 JS: appears to be complimentary, although there seems to be a clash of terms 17:35:40 (descriptive audio versus described media) 17:35:51 SC: ready for review 17:35:57 zakim, next item 17:35:57 agendum 7. "ARIA.Next Items; AAP; AAPI; D-Pub; ARIA; SVG" taken up [from janina] 17:36:11 JS: things are rolling 17:36:37 RS: lots happening. SVG TF is working out taxonomies approach - good progress, good participation 17:37:03 RS: digital publishing work is also underway - working with academia (etc) 17:37:32 RS: lots of good progress across the board 17:38:12 zakim, next item 17:38:12 agendum 8. "Other Task Force Updates; COGA; HTML-A11Y;" taken up [from janina] 17:38:56 JS: COGA document was first published last thursday - it is their research and background context for the next step (gap analysis) 17:39:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2015JanMar/0010.html 17:40:13 JS: comments/review widely requested 17:40:36 JS: other issues is last steps for @longdesc 17:41:10 Comments period for AC ended last week, including one objection pointing to the old Apple objection - not sure how that will play out 17:41:29 JS: will review next week 17:41:38 zakim, next item 17:41:38 agendum 9. "CSS Device Adaptation http://www.w3.org/TR/css-device-adapt/" taken up [from janina] 17:41:53 JS: Rich was making some progress,... 17:42:34 TOPIC: CSS Flexbox 17:43:20 RS: Did review of flexbox, and fundemental problem is that author can define order in boxes, so tht they can be rendered on screen. However, need to preserve order 17:43:48 If the regions used landmark markup, then there should not be an a11y issue 17:44:27 BUT if the sequence of content is meaningful - ie the "boxes" need to be rendered in a linear fashion: affects low viz and blind (and coga) 17:45:06 DOM order presents sequence (tab indesing, etc.), but if yo uchange the box order, it looses context for tab-navigating users 17:45:24 lots of push back from the browser vendors, who had a certain way they wanted to do this 17:45:49 so require a means of declaring the need for meaningful sequence 17:46:15 the other issue is with WCAG - which talks about logical order, but never speaks directly to meaningful sequence 17:46:42 working through/with CSS WG - some get it others don't 17:47:00 possible F2F meeting coming up (in sydney) 17:47:36 however, appears that some progress is being made. CSS WG needs to start thinking about a11y, as things are now going beyond just visual rendering 17:48:04 eg: CSS is now injecting content - content needs to be discoverable and testable for a11y content/compliance 17:48:27 many testing tools cannot/ do not detect issues (injection issues) 17:49:16 many of the AT vendors are reliant on DOM parsing - now tools can find images with alt text, taht doesn't exist 17:49:41 strong possibility that AT won't be able to access content, and the test tools won't find it 17:49:56 also, what of a11y mapping? doesn't exist (yet) 17:50:35 there are a number of strategic issues going forward. CSS WG needs to understand what they are 'breaking', and how/why 17:51:16 a lot of folks at AT industry seem to beleive they can sit back - but if they aren't sitting at the table its a huge problem 17:52:20 planning on doing a presentation for mapping, need to do similar for CSS 17:52:42 but having CSS WG aware of the box model issue now is big progress 17:53:24 JS: comments, questons? 17:54:02 JN: while we need to support IE, we also recommend other browsers when a11y is critical 17:54:27 RS: looking to have AI Square to speak to this 17:54:49 JN: this is becoming less of an issue - can be addressed through the contract language 17:55:10 s/AI Square/JAWS/ 17:55:44 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf 17:55:56 s/JAWS/Freedom Scientific 17:56:03 ack me 17:56:04 JS: any other issues? 17:56:53 jamesn has joined #pf 17:57:00 JS: adjourned for the day 17:57:14 rrsagent, make logs public 17:57:18 -Fred_Esch 17:57:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:57:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-minutes.html JF 17:58:08 zakim, please part 17:58:08 leaving. As of this point the attendees were janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.512.238.aaaa, 17:58:08 Zakim has left #pf 17:58:12 ... Charu_Pandhi, ShaneM 17:58:18 rrsagent, please part 17:58:18 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-actions.rdf : 17:58:18 ACTION: Janina to follow up with web notifications folk on Cyn's response [1] 17:58:18 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-irc#T17-18-53