IRC log of pf on 2015-01-21
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:45:38 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #pf
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-irc
- 16:45:40 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs member
- 16:45:40 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #pf
- 16:45:42 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
- 16:45:42 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
- 16:45:43 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
- 16:45:43 [trackbot]
- Date: 21 January 2015
- 16:45:54 [janina]
- Meeting: PFWG telecon
- 16:45:54 [janina]
- Chair: Janina
- 16:45:54 [janina]
- agenda: this
- 16:45:54 [janina]
- agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
- 16:45:54 [janina]
- agenda+ Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html
- 16:45:56 [janina]
- agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open
- 16:45:59 [janina]
- agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html#tr_LCWD
- 16:46:01 [janina]
- agenda+ Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/
- 16:46:04 [janina]
- agenda+ MAUR Final & Media Subteam [See Below]
- 16:46:06 [janina]
- agenda+ ARIA.Next Items; AAP; AAPI; D-Pub; ARIA; SVG
- 16:46:09 [janina]
- agenda+ Other Task Force Updates; COGA; HTML-A11Y;
- 16:46:11 [janina]
- agenda+ CSS Device Adaptation http://www.w3.org/TR/css-device-adapt/
- 16:46:14 [janina]
- agenda+ Enhanced Mail Archiver https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013AprJun/0442.html
- 16:46:17 [janina]
- agenda+ Other Business
- 16:46:19 [janina]
- agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
- 16:46:22 [janina]
- agenda+ be done
- 16:49:03 [maryjom_]
- maryjom_ has joined #pf
- 16:53:37 [janina]
- 16:54:29 [Zakim]
- WAI_PF()12:00PM has now started
- 16:54:34 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 16:54:40 [janina]
- zakim, ??P5 is me
- 16:54:40 [Zakim]
- +janina; got it
- 16:54:48 [janina]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 16:54:48 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
- 16:57:58 [JF]
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- 16:58:47 [Zakim]
- +JF
- 17:01:22 [Zakim]
- +Mary_Jo_Mueller
- 17:02:18 [Zakim]
- +Joanmarie_Diggs
- 17:03:11 [Zakim]
- +Fred_Esch
- 17:03:17 [JF]
- zakim, who's here?
- 17:03:17 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch
- 17:03:19 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see JF, maryjom_, Zakim, RRSAgent, asurkov, MarkS, yatil, MichaelC, janina, joanie, trackbot
- 17:03:33 [JF]
- agenda?
- 17:03:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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- 17:03:51 [JF]
- scribe
- 17:04:18 [janina]
- scribe: jf
- 17:04:18 [Zakim]
- +??P28
- 17:04:21 [fesch]
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- 17:04:33 [Zakim]
- +James_Nurthen
- 17:05:04 [Zakim]
- +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 17:05:21 [JF]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 17:05:21 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
- 17:06:17 [JF]
- JS: any comments? Around the table
- 17:07:18 [JF]
- RS: SVG a11y TF will be doing a walk-through of the a11y mapping on friday at 9:00 AM Boston
- 17:08:07 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:08:07 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html" taken up [from janina]
- 17:08:36 [JF]
- RESOLUTION: publish last week's minutes as submitted
- 17:08:41 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:08:41 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 was just opened, JF
- 17:08:46 [JF]
- zakim, close item 2
- 17:08:46 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html, closed
- 17:08:49 [Zakim]
- I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 17:08:49 [Zakim]
- 3. Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open [from janina]
- 17:08:50 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:08:50 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
- 17:09:04 [cpandhi]
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- 17:09:09 [JF]
- MC: no spec actions that are recent
- 17:09:16 [JF]
- js: ONE ON cYN, DID THAT GET DONE?
- 17:09:44 [JF]
- MC: believe she relied on list - the action is closed
- 17:10:09 [JF]
- (MC quoting Cyn's response)
- 17:10:38 [Zakim]
- + +1.512.238.aaaa
- 17:10:51 [MichaelC]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2015Jan/0004.html
- 17:11:58 [JF]
- JS: welcomes Cho Pandhi, from IBM
- 17:12:04 [MichaelC]
- zakim, aaaa is Charu_Pandhi
- 17:12:04 [Zakim]
- +Charu_Pandhi; got it
- 17:12:22 [JF]
- JS: will pause and do a round-table introduction
- 17:12:38 [JF]
- [intros all around]
- 17:13:19 [janina]
- fzakim, who's on the phone?
- 17:13:51 [fesch]
- zakim. who's on the phone?
- 17:14:01 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:14:03 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Charu_Pandhi
- 17:14:04 [JF]
- zakim, who's here
- 17:14:06 [Zakim]
- JF, you need to end that query with '?'
- 17:18:05 [JF]
- JS: should follow up with web notifications folk to wnsure they have what they need
- 17:18:16 [JF]
- s/wnsure/ensure
- 17:18:29 [JF]
- JS: will take that on
- 17:18:53 [JF]
- ACTION: Janina to follow up with web notifications folk on Cyn's response
- 17:18:53 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1566 - Follow up with web notifications folk on cyn's response [on Janina Sajka - due 2015-01-28].
- 17:19:01 [JF]
- zakim, nest item
- 17:19:01 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'nest item', JF
- 17:19:07 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:19:07 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html#tr_LCWD" taken up [from janina]
- 17:19:54 [JF]
- MC: there are no new LCs - there is something on web performance, but likely not useful for us
- 17:20:25 [janina]
- scribe: janina
- 17:20:36 [janina]
- jf: WebVTT looking for evidence of wide review
- 17:20:54 [janina]
- jf: Discussion about styling support as described in MAUR
- 17:21:34 [janina]
- jf: Current proposed approach is styling info in head of WebVTT doc
- 17:21:55 [halindrome]
- halindrome has joined #pf
- 17:22:04 [janina]
- jf: Additional info in email post ...
- 17:24:06 [Zakim]
- +ShaneM
- 17:24:48 [janina]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Jan/0036.html
- 17:24:50 [ShaneM]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:24:50 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Charu_Pandhi, ShaneM
- 17:24:52 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see ShaneM, cpandhi, fesch, richardschwerdtfeger, JF, maryjom_, Zakim, RRSAgent, asurkov, MarkS, yatil-afk, MichaelC, janina, joanie, trackbot
- 17:25:10 [JF]
- scribe: JF
- 17:25:18 [JF]
- JS: we need to ensure that there is a good review
- 17:28:42 [Zakim]
- -James_Nurthen
- 17:28:44 [Zakim]
- +James_Nurthen
- 17:29:00 [JF]
- WebVTT Draft: http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/
- 17:29:24 [JF]
- JS: we need to follow up on this, but looking for ideas
- 17:30:23 [JF]
- JS: will watch this.
- 17:30:29 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:30:29 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/" taken up [from janina]
- 17:30:57 [JF]
- MC: looking for new Community groups more than 3 months old
- 17:31:16 [MichaelC]
- -> www.w3.org/community/exploresemdata/ Exploration of Semantic Data CG
- 17:31:54 [JF]
- JS: suspect we can let that one ride
- 17:32:10 [MichaelC]
- -> www.w3.org/community/browserobo/ Browsers and Robotics CG
- 17:33:21 [JF]
- MC: sees a link to a11y, but unless there is interest at our end...
- 17:33:32 [JF]
- JS: looks like they are not doing anything
- 17:33:36 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:33:36 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "MAUR Final & Media Subteam" taken up [from See Below]
- 17:34:27 [JF]
- JS: I have been distracted - have had discussions with Josh Meille (Smith Kettlewell), but have not yet had a chance to have a conference call with him/them
- 17:34:55 [JF]
- JS: also note that an ISO WG is spending a lot of time looking at captions and sub-titles
- 17:35:18 [JF]
- JS: appears to be complimentary, although there seems to be a clash of terms
- 17:35:40 [JF]
- (descriptive audio versus described media)
- 17:35:51 [JF]
- SC: ready for review
- 17:35:57 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:35:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "ARIA.Next Items; AAP; AAPI; D-Pub; ARIA; SVG" taken up [from janina]
- 17:36:11 [JF]
- JS: things are rolling
- 17:36:37 [JF]
- RS: lots happening. SVG TF is working out taxonomies approach - good progress, good participation
- 17:37:03 [JF]
- RS: digital publishing work is also underway - working with academia (etc)
- 17:37:32 [JF]
- RS: lots of good progress across the board
- 17:38:12 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:38:12 [Zakim]
- agendum 8. "Other Task Force Updates; COGA; HTML-A11Y;" taken up [from janina]
- 17:38:56 [JF]
- JS: COGA document was first published last thursday - it is their research and background context for the next step (gap analysis)
- 17:39:46 [janina]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2015JanMar/0010.html
- 17:40:13 [JF]
- JS: comments/review widely requested
- 17:40:36 [JF]
- JS: other issues is last steps for @longdesc
- 17:41:10 [JF]
- Comments period for AC ended last week, including one objection pointing to the old Apple objection - not sure how that will play out
- 17:41:29 [JF]
- JS: will review next week
- 17:41:38 [JF]
- zakim, next item
- 17:41:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 9. "CSS Device Adaptation http://www.w3.org/TR/css-device-adapt/" taken up [from janina]
- 17:41:53 [JF]
- JS: Rich was making some progress,...
- 17:42:34 [JF]
- TOPIC: CSS Flexbox
- 17:43:20 [JF]
- RS: Did review of flexbox, and fundemental problem is that author can define order in boxes, so tht they can be rendered on screen. However, need to preserve order
- 17:43:48 [JF]
- If the regions used landmark markup, then there should not be an a11y issue
- 17:44:27 [JF]
- BUT if the sequence of content is meaningful - ie the "boxes" need to be rendered in a linear fashion: affects low viz and blind (and coga)
- 17:45:06 [JF]
- DOM order presents sequence (tab indesing, etc.), but if yo uchange the box order, it looses context for tab-navigating users
- 17:45:24 [JF]
- lots of push back from the browser vendors, who had a certain way they wanted to do this
- 17:45:49 [JF]
- so require a means of declaring the need for meaningful sequence
- 17:46:15 [JF]
- the other issue is with WCAG - which talks about logical order, but never speaks directly to meaningful sequence
- 17:46:42 [JF]
- working through/with CSS WG - some get it others don't
- 17:47:00 [JF]
- possible F2F meeting coming up (in sydney)
- 17:47:36 [JF]
- however, appears that some progress is being made. CSS WG needs to start thinking about a11y, as things are now going beyond just visual rendering
- 17:48:04 [JF]
- eg: CSS is now injecting content - content needs to be discoverable and testable for a11y content/compliance
- 17:48:27 [JF]
- many testing tools cannot/ do not detect issues (injection issues)
- 17:49:16 [JF]
- many of the AT vendors are reliant on DOM parsing - now tools can find images with alt text, taht doesn't exist
- 17:49:41 [JF]
- strong possibility that AT won't be able to access content, and the test tools won't find it
- 17:49:56 [JF]
- also, what of a11y mapping? doesn't exist (yet)
- 17:50:35 [JF]
- there are a number of strategic issues going forward. CSS WG needs to understand what they are 'breaking', and how/why
- 17:51:16 [JF]
- a lot of folks at AT industry seem to beleive they can sit back - but if they aren't sitting at the table its a huge problem
- 17:52:20 [JF]
- planning on doing a presentation for mapping, need to do similar for CSS
- 17:52:42 [JF]
- but having CSS WG aware of the box model issue now is big progress
- 17:53:24 [JF]
- JS: comments, questons?
- 17:54:02 [JF]
- JN: while we need to support IE, we also recommend other browsers when a11y is critical
- 17:54:27 [JF]
- RS: looking to have AI Square to speak to this
- 17:54:49 [JF]
- JN: this is becoming less of an issue - can be addressed through the contract language
- 17:55:10 [janina]
- s/AI Square/JAWS/
- 17:55:44 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf
- 17:55:56 [JF]
- s/JAWS/Freedom Scientific
- 17:56:03 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 17:56:04 [JF]
- JS: any other issues?
- 17:56:53 [jamesn]
- jamesn has joined #pf
- 17:57:00 [JF]
- JS: adjourned for the day
- 17:57:14 [JF]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 17:57:18 [Zakim]
- -Fred_Esch
- 17:57:24 [JF]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:57:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-minutes.html JF
- 17:58:08 [JF]
- zakim, please part
- 17:58:08 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.512.238.aaaa,
- 17:58:08 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #pf
- 17:58:12 [Zakim]
- ... Charu_Pandhi, ShaneM
- 17:58:18 [JF]
- rrsagent, please part
- 17:58:18 [RRSAgent]
- I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-actions.rdf :
- 17:58:18 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Janina to follow up with web notifications folk on Cyn's response [1]
- 17:58:18 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-irc#T17-18-53