IRC log of pf on 2015-01-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:45:38 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #pf
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-irc
16:45:40 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
16:45:40 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #pf
16:45:42 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:45:42 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
16:45:43 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:45:43 [trackbot]
Date: 21 January 2015
16:45:54 [janina]
Meeting: PFWG telecon
16:45:54 [janina]
Chair: Janina
16:45:54 [janina]
agenda: this
16:45:54 [janina]
agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
16:45:54 [janina]
agenda+ Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html
16:45:56 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open
16:45:59 [janina]
agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html#tr_LCWD
16:46:01 [janina]
agenda+ Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/
16:46:04 [janina]
agenda+ MAUR Final & Media Subteam [See Below]
16:46:06 [janina]
agenda+ ARIA.Next Items; AAP; AAPI; D-Pub; ARIA; SVG
16:46:09 [janina]
agenda+ Other Task Force Updates; COGA; HTML-A11Y;
16:46:11 [janina]
agenda+ CSS Device Adaptation http://www.w3.org/TR/css-device-adapt/
16:46:14 [janina]
agenda+ Enhanced Mail Archiver https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013AprJun/0442.html
16:46:17 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
16:46:19 [janina]
agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
16:46:22 [janina]
agenda+ be done
16:49:03 [maryjom_]
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16:53:37 [janina]
16:54:29 [Zakim]
WAI_PF()12:00PM has now started
16:54:34 [Zakim]
+??P5
16:54:40 [janina]
zakim, ??P5 is me
16:54:40 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
16:54:48 [janina]
zakim, take up item 1
16:54:48 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
16:57:58 [JF]
JF has joined #PF
16:58:47 [Zakim]
+JF
17:01:22 [Zakim]
+Mary_Jo_Mueller
17:02:18 [Zakim]
+Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:11 [Zakim]
+Fred_Esch
17:03:17 [JF]
zakim, who's here?
17:03:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch
17:03:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see JF, maryjom_, Zakim, RRSAgent, asurkov, MarkS, yatil, MichaelC, janina, joanie, trackbot
17:03:33 [JF]
agenda?
17:03:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf
17:03:51 [JF]
scribe
17:04:18 [janina]
scribe: jf
17:04:18 [Zakim]
+??P28
17:04:21 [fesch]
fesch has joined #pf
17:04:33 [Zakim]
+James_Nurthen
17:05:04 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:05:21 [JF]
zakim, take up item 1
17:05:21 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
17:06:17 [JF]
JS: any comments? Around the table
17:07:18 [JF]
RS: SVG a11y TF will be doing a walk-through of the a11y mapping on friday at 9:00 AM Boston
17:08:07 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:08:07 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html" taken up [from janina]
17:08:36 [JF]
RESOLUTION: publish last week's minutes as submitted
17:08:41 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:08:41 [Zakim]
agendum 2 was just opened, JF
17:08:46 [JF]
zakim, close item 2
17:08:46 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Previous Meeting Minutes https://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-pf-minutes.html, closed
17:08:49 [Zakim]
I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:08:49 [Zakim]
3. Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open [from janina]
17:08:50 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:08:50 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
17:09:04 [cpandhi]
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17:09:09 [JF]
MC: no spec actions that are recent
17:09:16 [JF]
js: ONE ON cYN, DID THAT GET DONE?
17:09:44 [JF]
MC: believe she relied on list - the action is closed
17:10:09 [JF]
(MC quoting Cyn's response)
17:10:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.238.aaaa
17:10:51 [MichaelC]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2015Jan/0004.html
17:11:58 [JF]
JS: welcomes Cho Pandhi, from IBM
17:12:04 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaaa is Charu_Pandhi
17:12:04 [Zakim]
+Charu_Pandhi; got it
17:12:22 [JF]
JS: will pause and do a round-table introduction
17:12:38 [JF]
[intros all around]
17:13:19 [janina]
fzakim, who's on the phone?
17:13:51 [fesch]
zakim. who's on the phone?
17:14:01 [MichaelC]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:14:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Charu_Pandhi
17:14:04 [JF]
zakim, who's here
17:14:06 [Zakim]
JF, you need to end that query with '?'
17:18:05 [JF]
JS: should follow up with web notifications folk to wnsure they have what they need
17:18:16 [JF]
s/wnsure/ensure
17:18:29 [JF]
JS: will take that on
17:18:53 [JF]
ACTION: Janina to follow up with web notifications folk on Cyn's response
17:18:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1566 - Follow up with web notifications folk on cyn's response [on Janina Sajka - due 2015-01-28].
17:19:01 [JF]
zakim, nest item
17:19:01 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'nest item', JF
17:19:07 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:19:07 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html#tr_LCWD" taken up [from janina]
17:19:54 [JF]
MC: there are no new LCs - there is something on web performance, but likely not useful for us
17:20:25 [janina]
scribe: janina
17:20:36 [janina]
jf: WebVTT looking for evidence of wide review
17:20:54 [janina]
jf: Discussion about styling support as described in MAUR
17:21:34 [janina]
jf: Current proposed approach is styling info in head of WebVTT doc
17:21:55 [halindrome]
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17:22:04 [janina]
jf: Additional info in email post ...
17:24:06 [Zakim]
+ShaneM
17:24:48 [janina]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Jan/0036.html
17:24:50 [ShaneM]
zakim, who is here?
17:24:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Charu_Pandhi, ShaneM
17:24:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ShaneM, cpandhi, fesch, richardschwerdtfeger, JF, maryjom_, Zakim, RRSAgent, asurkov, MarkS, yatil-afk, MichaelC, janina, joanie, trackbot
17:25:10 [JF]
scribe: JF
17:25:18 [JF]
JS: we need to ensure that there is a good review
17:28:42 [Zakim]
-James_Nurthen
17:28:44 [Zakim]
+James_Nurthen
17:29:00 [JF]
WebVTT Draft: http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/
17:29:24 [JF]
JS: we need to follow up on this, but looking for ideas
17:30:23 [JF]
JS: will watch this.
17:30:29 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:30:29 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/" taken up [from janina]
17:30:57 [JF]
MC: looking for new Community groups more than 3 months old
17:31:16 [MichaelC]
-> www.w3.org/community/exploresemdata/ Exploration of Semantic Data CG
17:31:54 [JF]
JS: suspect we can let that one ride
17:32:10 [MichaelC]
-> www.w3.org/community/browserobo/ Browsers and Robotics CG
17:33:21 [JF]
MC: sees a link to a11y, but unless there is interest at our end...
17:33:32 [JF]
JS: looks like they are not doing anything
17:33:36 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:33:36 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "MAUR Final & Media Subteam" taken up [from See Below]
17:34:27 [JF]
JS: I have been distracted - have had discussions with Josh Meille (Smith Kettlewell), but have not yet had a chance to have a conference call with him/them
17:34:55 [JF]
JS: also note that an ISO WG is spending a lot of time looking at captions and sub-titles
17:35:18 [JF]
JS: appears to be complimentary, although there seems to be a clash of terms
17:35:40 [JF]
(descriptive audio versus described media)
17:35:51 [JF]
SC: ready for review
17:35:57 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:35:57 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "ARIA.Next Items; AAP; AAPI; D-Pub; ARIA; SVG" taken up [from janina]
17:36:11 [JF]
JS: things are rolling
17:36:37 [JF]
RS: lots happening. SVG TF is working out taxonomies approach - good progress, good participation
17:37:03 [JF]
RS: digital publishing work is also underway - working with academia (etc)
17:37:32 [JF]
RS: lots of good progress across the board
17:38:12 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:38:12 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Other Task Force Updates; COGA; HTML-A11Y;" taken up [from janina]
17:38:56 [JF]
JS: COGA document was first published last thursday - it is their research and background context for the next step (gap analysis)
17:39:46 [janina]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2015JanMar/0010.html
17:40:13 [JF]
JS: comments/review widely requested
17:40:36 [JF]
JS: other issues is last steps for @longdesc
17:41:10 [JF]
Comments period for AC ended last week, including one objection pointing to the old Apple objection - not sure how that will play out
17:41:29 [JF]
JS: will review next week
17:41:38 [JF]
zakim, next item
17:41:38 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "CSS Device Adaptation http://www.w3.org/TR/css-device-adapt/" taken up [from janina]
17:41:53 [JF]
JS: Rich was making some progress,...
17:42:34 [JF]
TOPIC: CSS Flexbox
17:43:20 [JF]
RS: Did review of flexbox, and fundemental problem is that author can define order in boxes, so tht they can be rendered on screen. However, need to preserve order
17:43:48 [JF]
If the regions used landmark markup, then there should not be an a11y issue
17:44:27 [JF]
BUT if the sequence of content is meaningful - ie the "boxes" need to be rendered in a linear fashion: affects low viz and blind (and coga)
17:45:06 [JF]
DOM order presents sequence (tab indesing, etc.), but if yo uchange the box order, it looses context for tab-navigating users
17:45:24 [JF]
lots of push back from the browser vendors, who had a certain way they wanted to do this
17:45:49 [JF]
so require a means of declaring the need for meaningful sequence
17:46:15 [JF]
the other issue is with WCAG - which talks about logical order, but never speaks directly to meaningful sequence
17:46:42 [JF]
working through/with CSS WG - some get it others don't
17:47:00 [JF]
possible F2F meeting coming up (in sydney)
17:47:36 [JF]
however, appears that some progress is being made. CSS WG needs to start thinking about a11y, as things are now going beyond just visual rendering
17:48:04 [JF]
eg: CSS is now injecting content - content needs to be discoverable and testable for a11y content/compliance
17:48:27 [JF]
many testing tools cannot/ do not detect issues (injection issues)
17:49:16 [JF]
many of the AT vendors are reliant on DOM parsing - now tools can find images with alt text, taht doesn't exist
17:49:41 [JF]
strong possibility that AT won't be able to access content, and the test tools won't find it
17:49:56 [JF]
also, what of a11y mapping? doesn't exist (yet)
17:50:35 [JF]
there are a number of strategic issues going forward. CSS WG needs to understand what they are 'breaking', and how/why
17:51:16 [JF]
a lot of folks at AT industry seem to beleive they can sit back - but if they aren't sitting at the table its a huge problem
17:52:20 [JF]
planning on doing a presentation for mapping, need to do similar for CSS
17:52:42 [JF]
but having CSS WG aware of the box model issue now is big progress
17:53:24 [JF]
JS: comments, questons?
17:54:02 [JF]
JN: while we need to support IE, we also recommend other browsers when a11y is critical
17:54:27 [JF]
RS: looking to have AI Square to speak to this
17:54:49 [JF]
JN: this is becoming less of an issue - can be addressed through the contract language
17:55:10 [janina]
s/AI Square/JAWS/
17:55:44 [richardschwerdtfeger]
richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf
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s/JAWS/Freedom Scientific
17:56:03 [MichaelC]
ack me
17:56:04 [JF]
JS: any other issues?
17:56:53 [jamesn]
jamesn has joined #pf
17:57:00 [JF]
JS: adjourned for the day
17:57:14 [JF]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:57:18 [Zakim]
-Fred_Esch
17:57:24 [JF]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:57:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-minutes.html JF
17:58:08 [JF]
zakim, please part
17:58:08 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were janina, JF, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Esch, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.512.238.aaaa,
17:58:08 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #pf
17:58:12 [Zakim]
... Charu_Pandhi, ShaneM
17:58:18 [JF]
rrsagent, please part
17:58:18 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-actions.rdf :
17:58:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Janina to follow up with web notifications folk on Cyn's response [1]
17:58:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-pf-irc#T17-18-53