IRC log of shapes on 2015-01-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:59:05 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #shapes
18:59:05 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-shapes-irc
18:59:07 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs rdf-data-shapes
18:59:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #shapes
18:59:09 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SHAPES
18:59:09 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
18:59:10 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference
18:59:10 [trackbot]
Date: 15 January 2015
18:59:53 [Arnaud]
zakim, who's on the phone?
18:59:53 [Zakim]
DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM has not yet started, Arnaud
18:59:55 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, kcoyle, SimonSteyskal, TallTed, Arnaud, rhiaro, sandro, ericP, trackbot
19:00:00 [Arnaud]
zakim, this is shapes
19:00:00 [Zakim]
ok, Arnaud; that matches DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM
19:00:13 [Arnaud]
zakim, who's on the phone?
19:00:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P1, +1.510.435.aaaa, Arnaud
19:00:17 [Dimitris]
Dimitris has joined #shapes
19:00:29 [SimonSteyskal]
zakim; ??P1 is me
19:00:30 [kcoyle]
Zakim, aaaa is me
19:00:30 [Zakim]
+kcoyle; got it
19:00:33 [Zakim]
+ericP
19:00:37 [SimonSteyskal]
zakim, ??P1 is me
19:00:37 [Zakim]
+SimonSteyskal; got it
19:00:40 [Zakim]
+ +30694579aabb
19:00:57 [Dimitris]
zakim +30694579aabb is me
19:00:59 [labra]
labra has joined #shapes
19:01:19 [pfps]
pfps has joined #shapes
19:01:23 [Zakim]
+pfps
19:01:27 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
19:01:34 [TallTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
19:01:34 [Zakim]
+TallTed; got it
19:01:37 [TallTed]
Zakim, mute me
19:01:37 [Zakim]
TallTed should now be muted
19:01:39 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
19:01:49 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
19:01:52 [hknublau]
hknublau has joined #shapes
19:02:01 [Zakim]
+Arthur_Ryman
19:02:19 [Arnaud]
zakim, who's on the phone?
19:02:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see SimonSteyskal, kcoyle, Arnaud, ericP, +30694579aabb, pfps, TallTed (muted), [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a], Arthur_Ryman
19:02:32 [hknublau]
zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
19:02:32 [Zakim]
+hknublau; got it
19:02:32 [Dimitris]
zakim, +30694579aabb is me
19:02:33 [Zakim]
+Dimitris; got it
19:03:23 [ArthurRyman]
ArthurRyman has joined #shapes
19:04:04 [ericP]
Zakim, hknublau is really labra
19:04:04 [Zakim]
+labra; got it
19:04:20 [ericP]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is hknublau
19:04:20 [Zakim]
+hknublau; got it
19:05:23 [SimonSteyskal]
scribe: SimonSteyskal
19:05:27 [SimonSteyskal]
chair: Arnaud
19:05:33 [SimonSteyskal]
TOPIC: approve minutes
19:05:34 [pfps]
the minutes look fine to me
19:06:00 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: minutes from last week are approved -> no objections
19:06:25 [SimonSteyskal]
TOPIC: tracking of actions and issues
19:06:37 [pfps]
q+
19:07:05 [Arnaud]
ack hknublau
19:07:07 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: should we close open issues?
19:07:22 [Arnaud]
ack pfps
19:07:33 [SimonSteyskal]
pfps: resource shapes description is there; i cannot understand it based on the description only
19:07:36 [Anamitra]
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19:07:54 [SimonSteyskal]
...: description should be more elaborated
19:07:56 [ArthurRyman]
q+
19:08:05 [Arnaud]
ack ArthurRyman
19:08:16 [SimonSteyskal]
ArthurRyman: i will respond to peters comments
19:08:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.978.899.aacc
19:08:40 [SimonSteyskal]
ericP: keep issue open till peter has no furter objections
19:08:41 [pfps]
it's not that the description of Resource Shapes needs to be elaborated, it's that there should be a description of how you use Resource Shapes for validation
19:09:05 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: issue 8-9 are closed -.> no objections
19:09:44 [SimonSteyskal]
...: simon and karen are working on a document capturing use cases and requirments
19:10:11 [SimonSteyskal]
...: w3c is moving to github, eric has set up a repo
19:10:22 [kcoyle]
q+
19:10:24 [SimonSteyskal]
q+
19:10:34 [ArthurRyman]
q+
19:11:10 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: requuest for everyone -> create userid on github and get in touch with eric to get access
19:11:12 [Arnaud]
ack kcoyle
19:11:49 [Arnaud]
ack SimonSteyskal
19:12:26 [Arnaud]
ack ArthurRyman
19:12:30 [SimonSteyskal]
ArthurRyman: what we are using github for?
19:12:45 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: for working on documents collaboratively
19:13:10 [SimonSteyskal]
...: if anyone wants to work with mercurial instead, you are free to do so
19:13:41 [SimonSteyskal]
...: no issues were raised, but many issues have pending review
19:14:06 [pfps]
q+
19:14:15 [Arnaud]
https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/pendingreview
19:14:34 [Arnaud]
ack pfps
19:14:40 [SimonSteyskal]
... proposal to close some of the issues
19:14:54 [SimonSteyskal]
pfps: issue 6 brings up an interesting
19:15:19 [SimonSteyskal]
... thing; that shexc is part of oslc
19:16:51 [SimonSteyskal]
... this little partial solutions in our stories should be really solutions and if shexc needs oslc to propose a solution than it should be stated so
19:17:57 [SimonSteyskal]
... i got a shape/something and a graph
19:18:14 [SimonSteyskal]
... and i want that all the "something" have a particular shape
19:19:06 [SimonSteyskal]
...i cannot read the shexc example and then look in the wiki to understand it
19:20:07 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: i wanted the authors of the stories to adress issues which were raised against them
19:20:14 [SimonSteyskal]
... no marking them as pending review
19:21:10 [SimonSteyskal]
... we should let issue 6 open but i propose to close all the others
19:21:38 [SimonSteyskal]
... close issue 7/10/18/19
19:22:00 [SimonSteyskal]
... no urge to close them, leave them open till next week
19:22:40 [SimonSteyskal]
... is group ok with peter closing the issues if he was able to check/review them
19:22:47 [SimonSteyskal]
... (yes)
19:23:32 [SimonSteyskal]
... if you address issue mark them as pending review
19:23:44 [SimonSteyskal]
TOPIC: User Stories/Use cases status
19:23:58 [SimonSteyskal]
q+
19:24:35 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: before we get into use cases we should start writing stories
19:24:42 [Arnaud]
ack SimonSteyskal
19:24:57 [SimonSteyskal]
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp-ucr.html
19:27:20 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: editors took the lead in creating content of the document
19:27:28 [kcoyle]
q+
19:27:37 [BartvanLeeuwen]
BartvanLeeuwen has joined #shapes
19:27:43 [Arnaud]
ack kcoyle
19:28:19 [SimonSteyskal]
kcoyle: big differences are number of user stories in both WGs we are comparing (shapes & ldp)
19:28:31 [SimonSteyskal]
... maybe we should reduce the number?
19:29:00 [Zakim]
+??P5
19:29:14 [BartvanLeeuwen]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
19:29:14 [Zakim]
+BartvanLeeuwen; got it
19:29:23 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: we have all the stories we have accepted, i dont know how much duplication we have and how much people would care if their story gets removed
19:30:09 [SimonSteyskal]
... editors could try to perform some merge/grey them out and the group could discuss that
19:31:44 [SimonSteyskal]
... most likely some issues will come up (authors brace yourselves)
19:31:52 [SimonSteyskal]
+1
19:31:53 [kcoyle]
ok with me
19:31:59 [Zakim]
- +1.978.899.aacc
19:32:40 [SimonSteyskal]
... holger added a story and we should talk about that
19:33:09 [hknublau]
+q
19:33:19 [Arnaud]
ack hknublau
19:33:30 [Arnaud]
https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/User_Stories#S8:_Checking_RDF_node_type
19:33:59 [SimonSteyskal]
hknublau: story about rdf node type (whether something is a URI, blank node... )
19:34:56 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: hoölger added S8 to the document and questions is if group accepts this story
19:35:04 [SimonSteyskal]
s/hölger/holger
19:35:09 [SimonSteyskal]
s/hoölger/holger
19:35:32 [SimonSteyskal]
... we could wait to next week to formally approve it
19:36:03 [ArthurRyman]
q+
19:36:11 [pfps]
I don't like the story, but it is a story that should be considered.
19:36:24 [Arnaud]
ack ArthurRyman
19:37:12 [SimonSteyskal]
... S8 took over an old story slot
19:37:25 [SimonSteyskal]
... thus the "low" number
19:38:22 [SimonSteyskal]
... if people have questions regarding this story, ask questions and we will approve it(or not) next week
19:38:42 [ArthurRyman]
+1 for S8
19:39:00 [SimonSteyskal]
TOPIC: Requirements
19:39:28 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: we have this wikipage where we have collected some requirements
19:40:10 [SimonSteyskal]
... we agreed to only talk about reqs. which were endorsed by more than 2 people
19:41:22 [SimonSteyskal]
... instead of voting during the call we should vote in the wiki
19:41:58 [Arnaud]
https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Requirements
19:42:02 [ArthurRyman]
where do we put the votes?
19:42:18 [SimonSteyskal]
... if you object to certain reqs than elaborate on that
19:42:37 [pfps]
I'm assuming that the "default" vote is +1
19:42:39 [labra]
+1
19:42:45 [Dimitris]
+1
19:42:49 [SimonSteyskal]
... are people ok in approving this proposal?
19:42:51 [SimonSteyskal]
+1
19:43:09 [kcoyle]
+1
19:43:46 [SimonSteyskal]
... i will monitor the reqs list and will propose to accept all of those which have no -1 votes on them
19:44:23 [SimonSteyskal]
... we could start discussing some of the requirements now
19:44:29 [Arnaud]
https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Requirements#Declarations_of_Property_Value_Type_.28Range.29
19:45:44 [SimonSteyskal]
ericP: my issue was that declaration of property value types is unambiquitious
19:46:07 [SimonSteyskal]
... 3 different cases we should consider
19:46:12 [pfps]
YUK!
19:46:17 [pfps]
q+
19:46:35 [Arnaud]
ack pfps
19:47:30 [SimonSteyskal]
pfps: i see no difference in being 5 an integer and dick cheney a ??
19:48:43 [SimonSteyskal]
ericP: OWL makes a sharp distinction between object and datatype properties
19:49:16 [ArthurRyman]
q+
19:50:01 [SimonSteyskal]
pfps: ease of use is a very seductive insent
19:51:17 [SimonSteyskal]
pfps: form vs. meaning
19:51:31 [Arnaud]
ack ArthurRyman
19:51:55 [SimonSteyskal]
ArthurRyman: i didnt understand we peter thought that resource shapes are broken?
19:52:17 [SimonSteyskal]
pfps: because it confuses form and meaning (actual syntax = meaning)
19:53:36 [SimonSteyskal]
ArthurRyman: resource shapes were defined to check interface contracts (oslc)
19:54:00 [SimonSteyskal]
... there is a difference between int and integer
19:55:09 [SimonSteyskal]
... rs are defined to specify interfaces for applications
19:57:26 [ericP]
FILTER (sameNode("5"^^xsd:byte, "5"^^xsd:integer)) => false
19:57:26 [SimonSteyskal]
(some discussion on whether "5"^^xsd:int and "5"^^xsd:integer is/should be the same thing)
19:57:38 [ericP]
FILTER ("5"^^xsd:byte = "5"^^xsd:integer) => true
19:59:14 [ArthurRyman]
q+
19:59:20 [Arnaud]
ack ArthurRyman
20:00:03 [ericP]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#operandDataTypes SPARQL's use of the XSD numeric types
20:00:46 [ericP]
note that XSD doesn't have another category analagous to numerics
20:01:35 [SimonSteyskal]
Arnaud: maybe we should follow erics suggestion and split that req. up
20:01:54 [SimonSteyskal]
... but leave it with that by now
20:02:28 [SimonSteyskal]
... if you do have objections, mark them so that we can discuss them
20:02:49 [Zakim]
-BartvanLeeuwen
20:03:01 [BartvanLeeuwen]
bye
20:03:03 [Zakim]
-TallTed
20:03:05 [Zakim]
-Arthur_Ryman
20:03:07 [Zakim]
-hknublau
20:03:08 [Zakim]
-SimonSteyskal
20:03:08 [Zakim]
-pfps
20:03:10 [Zakim]
-Arnaud
20:03:11 [Zakim]
-Dimitris
20:03:13 [Zakim]
-kcoyle
20:03:13 [Zakim]
-labra
20:03:15 [Zakim]
-ericP
20:03:17 [Zakim]
DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM has ended
20:03:17 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.510.435.aaaa, Arnaud, kcoyle, ericP, SimonSteyskal, pfps, TallTed, Arthur_Ryman, Dimitris, labra, hknublau, +1.978.899.aacc, BartvanLeeuwen
20:04:32 [hknublau]
hknublau has left #shapes
20:07:09 [Dimitris]
Dimitris has left #shapes