18:59:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #shapes
18:59:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-shapes-irc
18:59:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs rdf-data-shapes
18:59:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #shapes
18:59:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SHAPES
18:59:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
18:59:10 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference
18:59:10 <trackbot> Date: 15 January 2015
18:59:53 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:59:53 <Zakim> DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM has not yet started, Arnaud
18:59:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, kcoyle, SimonSteyskal, TallTed, Arnaud, rhiaro, sandro, ericP, trackbot
19:00:00 <Arnaud> zakim, this is shapes
19:00:00 <Zakim> ok, Arnaud; that matches DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM
19:00:13 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
19:00:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1, +1.510.435.aaaa, Arnaud
19:00:17 <Dimitris> Dimitris has joined #shapes
19:00:29 <SimonSteyskal> zakim; ??P1 is me
19:00:30 <kcoyle> Zakim, aaaa is me
19:00:30 <Zakim> +kcoyle; got it
19:00:33 <Zakim> +ericP
19:00:37 <SimonSteyskal> zakim, ??P1 is me
19:00:37 <Zakim> +SimonSteyskal; got it
19:00:40 <Zakim> + +30694579aabb
19:00:57 <Dimitris> zakim +30694579aabb is me
19:00:59 <labra> labra has joined #shapes
19:01:19 <pfps> pfps has joined #shapes
19:01:23 <Zakim> +pfps
19:01:27 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
19:01:34 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
19:01:34 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
19:01:37 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
19:01:37 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
19:01:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:01:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
19:01:52 <hknublau> hknublau has joined #shapes
19:02:01 <Zakim> +Arthur_Ryman
19:02:19 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
19:02:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see SimonSteyskal, kcoyle, Arnaud, ericP, +30694579aabb, pfps, TallTed (muted), [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a], Arthur_Ryman
19:02:32 <hknublau> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
19:02:32 <Zakim> +hknublau; got it
19:02:32 <Dimitris> zakim, +30694579aabb is me
19:02:33 <Zakim> +Dimitris; got it
19:03:23 <ArthurRyman> ArthurRyman has joined #shapes
19:04:04 <ericP> Zakim, hknublau is really labra
19:04:04 <Zakim> +labra; got it
19:04:20 <ericP> Zakim, [IPcaller] is hknublau
19:04:20 <Zakim> +hknublau; got it
19:05:23 <SimonSteyskal> scribe: SimonSteyskal
19:05:27 <SimonSteyskal> chair: Arnaud
<SimonSteyskal> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2015.01.15 
19:05:33 <SimonSteyskal> TOPIC: Admin
19:05:34 <pfps> the minutes look fine to me
19:06:00 <SimonSteyskal> RESOLVED: minutes from 8 January 2015 approved without objections http://www.w3.org/2015/01/08-shapes-minutes.html
19:06:25 <SimonSteyskal> TOPIC: Tracking of Actions and Issues
19:06:37 <pfps> q+
19:07:05 <Arnaud> ack hknublau
19:07:07 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: should we close open issues?
19:07:22 <Arnaud> ack pfps
19:07:33 <SimonSteyskal> pfps: resource shapes description is there; i cannot understand it based on the description only
19:07:36 <Anamitra> Anamitra has joined #shapes
19:07:54 <SimonSteyskal> ...: description should be more elaborated
19:07:56 <ArthurRyman> q+
19:08:05 <Arnaud> ack ArthurRyman
19:08:16 <SimonSteyskal> ArthurRyman: i will respond to peters comments
19:08:35 <Zakim> + +1.978.899.aacc
19:08:40 <SimonSteyskal> ericP: keep issue open till peter has no furter objections
19:08:41 <pfps> it's not that the description of Resource Shapes needs to be elaborated, it's that there should be a description of how you use Resource Shapes for validation
19:09:05 <SimonSteyskal> RESOLVED: issue 8-9 are closed with no objections
19:09:44 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: simon and karen are working on a document capturing use cases and requirments
19:10:11 <SimonSteyskal> ...: w3c is moving to github, eric has set up a repo
19:10:22 <kcoyle> q+
19:10:24 <SimonSteyskal> q+
19:10:34 <ArthurRyman> q+
19:11:10 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: request for everyone who wants write access -> create userid on github and get in touch with eric to get access
19:11:12 <Arnaud> ack kcoyle
19:11:49 <Arnaud> ack SimonSteyskal
19:12:26 <Arnaud> ack ArthurRyman
19:12:30 <SimonSteyskal> ArthurRyman: what we are using github for?
19:12:45 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: for working on documents collaboratively
19:13:10 <SimonSteyskal> ...: if anyone wants to work with mercurial instead, you are free to do so
19:13:41 <SimonSteyskal> ...: no issues were raised, but many issues have pending review
19:14:06 <pfps> q+
19:14:15 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/pendingreview
19:14:34 <Arnaud> ack pfps
19:14:40 <SimonSteyskal> ... proposal to close some of the issues
19:14:54 <SimonSteyskal> pfps: issue 6 brings up an interesting
19:15:19 <SimonSteyskal> ... thing; that shexc is part of oslc
19:16:51 <SimonSteyskal> ... this little partial solutions in our stories should be really solutions and if shexc needs oslc to propose a solution than it should be stated so
19:17:57 <SimonSteyskal> ... I got a shape/something and a graph
19:18:14 <SimonSteyskal> ... and I want that all the "something" have a particular shape
19:19:06 <SimonSteyskal> ...I cannot read the shexc example and then look in the wiki to understand it
19:20:07 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: I wanted the authors of the stories to adress issues which were raised against them
19:20:14 <SimonSteyskal> ... no marking them as pending review
19:21:10 <SimonSteyskal> ... we should let issue 6 open but i propose to close all the others
19:21:38 <SimonSteyskal> ... close issue 7/10/18/19
19:22:00 <SimonSteyskal> ... no urge to close them, leave them open till next week
19:22:40 <SimonSteyskal> ... is group ok with peter closing the issues if he was able to check/review them
19:22:47 <SimonSteyskal> ... (yes)
19:23:32 <SimonSteyskal> ... if you address issue mark them as pending review
19:23:44 <SimonSteyskal> TOPIC: User Stories/Use cases status
19:23:58 <SimonSteyskal> q+
19:24:35 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: decided that before we get into use cases we should start writing stories
19:24:42 <Arnaud> ack SimonSteyskal
19:24:57 <SimonSteyskal> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp-ucr.html
19:27:20 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: editors should take the lead in creating content of the document
19:27:28 <kcoyle> q+
19:27:37 <BartvanLeeuwen> BartvanLeeuwen has joined #shapes
19:27:43 <Arnaud> ack kcoyle
19:28:19 <SimonSteyskal> kcoyle: big differences are number of user stories in both WGs we are comparing (shapes & ldp)
19:28:31 <SimonSteyskal> ... maybe we should reduce the number?
19:29:00 <Zakim> +??P5
19:29:14 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??P5 is me
19:29:14 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
19:29:23 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: we have all the stories we have accepted, I dont know how much duplication we have and how much people would care if their story gets removed
19:30:09 <SimonSteyskal> ... editors could try to perform some merge/grey them out and the group could review that
19:31:44 <SimonSteyskal> ... most likely some issues will come up (authors brace yourselves)
19:31:52 <SimonSteyskal> +1
19:31:53 <kcoyle> ok with me
19:31:59 <Zakim> - +1.978.899.aacc
19:32:40 <SimonSteyskal> ... holger added a story and we should talk about that
19:33:09 <hknublau> +q
19:33:19 <Arnaud> ack hknublau
19:33:30 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/User_Stories#S8:_Checking_RDF_node_type
19:33:59 <SimonSteyskal> hknublau: story about rdf node type (whether something is a URI, blank node... )
19:34:56 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: hoölger added S8 to the document and questions is if group accepts this story
19:35:04 <SimonSteyskal> s/hölger/holger
19:35:09 <SimonSteyskal> s/hoölger/holger
19:35:32 <SimonSteyskal> ... we could wait to next week to formally approve it
19:36:03 <ArthurRyman> q+
19:36:11 <pfps> I don't like the story, but it is a story that should be considered.
19:36:24 <Arnaud> ack ArthurRyman
19:37:12 <SimonSteyskal> ... S8 took over an old story slot
19:37:25 <SimonSteyskal> ... thus the "low" number
19:38:22 <SimonSteyskal> ... if people have questions regarding this story, ask questions and we will approve it(or not) next week
19:38:42 <ArthurRyman> +1 for S8
19:39:00 <SimonSteyskal> TOPIC: Requirements
19:39:28 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: we have this wikipage where we have collected some requirements
19:40:10 <SimonSteyskal> ... we agreed to only talk about reqs. which were endorsed by more than 2 people
19:41:22 <SimonSteyskal> ... instead of voting during the call we should vote in the wiki
19:41:58 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Requirements
19:42:02 <ArthurRyman> where do we put the votes?
19:42:18 <SimonSteyskal> ... if you object to certain reqs than elaborate on that
19:42:37 <pfps> I'm assuming that the "default" vote is +1
19:42:39 <labra> +1
19:42:45 <Dimitris> +1
19:42:49 <SimonSteyskal> ... are people ok in approving this proposal?
19:42:51 <SimonSteyskal> +1
19:43:09 <kcoyle> +1
19:43:46 <SimonSteyskal> ... I will monitor the reqs list and will propose to accept all of those which have no -1 votes on them
19:44:23 <SimonSteyskal> ... we could start discussing some of the requirements now
19:44:29 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Requirements#Declarations_of_Property_Value_Type_.28Range.29
19:45:44 <SimonSteyskal> ericP: my issue was that declaration of property value types is unambiquitious
19:46:07 <SimonSteyskal> ... 3 different cases we should consider
19:46:12 <pfps> YUK!
19:46:17 <pfps> q+
19:46:35 <Arnaud> ack pfps
19:47:30 <SimonSteyskal> pfps: I see no difference in being 5 an integer and dick cheney a ??
19:48:43 <SimonSteyskal> ericP: OWL makes a sharp distinction between object and datatype properties
19:49:16 <ArthurRyman> q+
19:50:01 <SimonSteyskal> pfps: ease of use is a very seductive insent
19:51:17 <SimonSteyskal> pfps: form vs. meaning
19:51:31 <Arnaud> ack ArthurRyman
19:51:55 <SimonSteyskal> ArthurRyman: I didnt understand why peter thought that resource shapes are broken?
19:52:17 <SimonSteyskal> pfps: because it confuses form and meaning (actual syntax = meaning)
19:53:36 <SimonSteyskal> ArthurRyman: resource shapes were defined to check interface contracts (oslc)
19:54:00 <SimonSteyskal> ... there is a difference between int and integer
19:55:09 <SimonSteyskal> ... rs are defined to specify interfaces for applications
19:57:26 <ericP> FILTER (sameNode("5"^^xsd:byte, "5"^^xsd:integer)) => false
19:57:26 <SimonSteyskal> (some discussion on whether "5"^^xsd:int and "5"^^xsd:integer is/should be the same thing)
19:57:38 <ericP> FILTER ("5"^^xsd:byte = "5"^^xsd:integer) => true
19:59:14 <ArthurRyman> q+
19:59:20 <Arnaud> ack ArthurRyman
20:00:03 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#operandDataTypes SPARQL's use of the XSD numeric types
20:00:46 <ericP> note that XSD doesn't have another category analagous to numerics
20:01:35 <SimonSteyskal> Arnaud: maybe we should follow eric's suggestion and split that req. up
20:01:54 <SimonSteyskal> ... but leave it with that by now
20:02:28 <SimonSteyskal> ... if you do have objections, mark them so that we can discuss them
20:02:49 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
20:03:01 <BartvanLeeuwen> bye
20:03:03 <Zakim> -TallTed
20:03:05 <Zakim> -Arthur_Ryman
20:03:07 <Zakim> -hknublau
20:03:08 <Zakim> -SimonSteyskal
20:03:08 <Zakim> -pfps
20:03:10 <Zakim> -Arnaud
20:03:11 <Zakim> -Dimitris
20:03:13 <Zakim> -kcoyle
20:03:13 <Zakim> -labra
20:03:15 <Zakim> -ericP
20:03:17 <Zakim> DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM has ended
20:03:17 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.510.435.aaaa, Arnaud, kcoyle, ericP, SimonSteyskal, pfps, TallTed, Arthur_Ryman, Dimitris, labra, hknublau, +1.978.899.aacc, BartvanLeeuwen
<SimonSteyskal> present: Arnaud, kcoyle, ericP, SimonSteyskal, pfps, TallTed, Arthur_Ryman, Dimitris, labra, hknublau, +1.978.899.aacc, BartvanLeeuwen
20:04:32 <hknublau> hknublau has left #shapes
20:07:09 <Dimitris> Dimitris has left #shapes