IRC log of shapes on 2015-01-15
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 18:59:05 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #shapes
- 18:59:05 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-shapes-irc
- 18:59:07 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs rdf-data-shapes
- 18:59:07 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #shapes
- 18:59:09 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be SHAPES
- 18:59:09 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
- 18:59:10 [trackbot]
- Meeting: RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference
- 18:59:10 [trackbot]
- Date: 15 January 2015
- 18:59:53 [Arnaud]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 18:59:53 [Zakim]
- DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM has not yet started, Arnaud
- 18:59:55 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, kcoyle, SimonSteyskal, TallTed, Arnaud, rhiaro, sandro, ericP, trackbot
- 19:00:00 [Arnaud]
- zakim, this is shapes
- 19:00:00 [Zakim]
- ok, Arnaud; that matches DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM
- 19:00:13 [Arnaud]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 19:00:13 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P1, +1.510.435.aaaa, Arnaud
- 19:00:17 [Dimitris]
- Dimitris has joined #shapes
- 19:00:29 [SimonSteyskal]
- zakim; ??P1 is me
- 19:00:30 [kcoyle]
- Zakim, aaaa is me
- 19:00:30 [Zakim]
- +kcoyle; got it
- 19:00:33 [Zakim]
- +ericP
- 19:00:37 [SimonSteyskal]
- zakim, ??P1 is me
- 19:00:37 [Zakim]
- +SimonSteyskal; got it
- 19:00:40 [Zakim]
- + +30694579aabb
- 19:00:57 [Dimitris]
- zakim +30694579aabb is me
- 19:00:59 [labra]
- labra has joined #shapes
- 19:01:19 [pfps]
- pfps has joined #shapes
- 19:01:23 [Zakim]
- +pfps
- 19:01:27 [Zakim]
- +OpenLink_Software
- 19:01:34 [TallTed]
- Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
- 19:01:34 [Zakim]
- +TallTed; got it
- 19:01:37 [TallTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 19:01:37 [Zakim]
- TallTed should now be muted
- 19:01:39 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 19:01:49 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller.a]
- 19:01:52 [hknublau]
- hknublau has joined #shapes
- 19:02:01 [Zakim]
- +Arthur_Ryman
- 19:02:19 [Arnaud]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 19:02:19 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see SimonSteyskal, kcoyle, Arnaud, ericP, +30694579aabb, pfps, TallTed (muted), [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a], Arthur_Ryman
- 19:02:32 [hknublau]
- zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
- 19:02:32 [Zakim]
- +hknublau; got it
- 19:02:32 [Dimitris]
- zakim, +30694579aabb is me
- 19:02:33 [Zakim]
- +Dimitris; got it
- 19:03:23 [ArthurRyman]
- ArthurRyman has joined #shapes
- 19:04:04 [ericP]
- Zakim, hknublau is really labra
- 19:04:04 [Zakim]
- +labra; got it
- 19:04:20 [ericP]
- Zakim, [IPcaller] is hknublau
- 19:04:20 [Zakim]
- +hknublau; got it
- 19:05:23 [SimonSteyskal]
- scribe: SimonSteyskal
- 19:05:27 [SimonSteyskal]
- chair: Arnaud
- 19:05:33 [SimonSteyskal]
- TOPIC: approve minutes
- 19:05:34 [pfps]
- the minutes look fine to me
- 19:06:00 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: minutes from last week are approved -> no objections
- 19:06:25 [SimonSteyskal]
- TOPIC: tracking of actions and issues
- 19:06:37 [pfps]
- q+
- 19:07:05 [Arnaud]
- ack hknublau
- 19:07:07 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: should we close open issues?
- 19:07:22 [Arnaud]
- ack pfps
- 19:07:33 [SimonSteyskal]
- pfps: resource shapes description is there; i cannot understand it based on the description only
- 19:07:36 [Anamitra]
- Anamitra has joined #shapes
- 19:07:54 [SimonSteyskal]
- ...: description should be more elaborated
- 19:07:56 [ArthurRyman]
- q+
- 19:08:05 [Arnaud]
- ack ArthurRyman
- 19:08:16 [SimonSteyskal]
- ArthurRyman: i will respond to peters comments
- 19:08:35 [Zakim]
- + +1.978.899.aacc
- 19:08:40 [SimonSteyskal]
- ericP: keep issue open till peter has no furter objections
- 19:08:41 [pfps]
- it's not that the description of Resource Shapes needs to be elaborated, it's that there should be a description of how you use Resource Shapes for validation
- 19:09:05 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: issue 8-9 are closed -.> no objections
- 19:09:44 [SimonSteyskal]
- ...: simon and karen are working on a document capturing use cases and requirments
- 19:10:11 [SimonSteyskal]
- ...: w3c is moving to github, eric has set up a repo
- 19:10:22 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 19:10:24 [SimonSteyskal]
- q+
- 19:10:34 [ArthurRyman]
- q+
- 19:11:10 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: requuest for everyone -> create userid on github and get in touch with eric to get access
- 19:11:12 [Arnaud]
- ack kcoyle
- 19:11:49 [Arnaud]
- ack SimonSteyskal
- 19:12:26 [Arnaud]
- ack ArthurRyman
- 19:12:30 [SimonSteyskal]
- ArthurRyman: what we are using github for?
- 19:12:45 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: for working on documents collaboratively
- 19:13:10 [SimonSteyskal]
- ...: if anyone wants to work with mercurial instead, you are free to do so
- 19:13:41 [SimonSteyskal]
- ...: no issues were raised, but many issues have pending review
- 19:14:06 [pfps]
- q+
- 19:14:15 [Arnaud]
- https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/pendingreview
- 19:14:34 [Arnaud]
- ack pfps
- 19:14:40 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... proposal to close some of the issues
- 19:14:54 [SimonSteyskal]
- pfps: issue 6 brings up an interesting
- 19:15:19 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... thing; that shexc is part of oslc
- 19:16:51 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... this little partial solutions in our stories should be really solutions and if shexc needs oslc to propose a solution than it should be stated so
- 19:17:57 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... i got a shape/something and a graph
- 19:18:14 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... and i want that all the "something" have a particular shape
- 19:19:06 [SimonSteyskal]
- ...i cannot read the shexc example and then look in the wiki to understand it
- 19:20:07 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: i wanted the authors of the stories to adress issues which were raised against them
- 19:20:14 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... no marking them as pending review
- 19:21:10 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... we should let issue 6 open but i propose to close all the others
- 19:21:38 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... close issue 7/10/18/19
- 19:22:00 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... no urge to close them, leave them open till next week
- 19:22:40 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... is group ok with peter closing the issues if he was able to check/review them
- 19:22:47 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... (yes)
- 19:23:32 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... if you address issue mark them as pending review
- 19:23:44 [SimonSteyskal]
- TOPIC: User Stories/Use cases status
- 19:23:58 [SimonSteyskal]
- q+
- 19:24:35 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: before we get into use cases we should start writing stories
- 19:24:42 [Arnaud]
- ack SimonSteyskal
- 19:24:57 [SimonSteyskal]
- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp-ucr.html
- 19:27:20 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: editors took the lead in creating content of the document
- 19:27:28 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 19:27:37 [BartvanLeeuwen]
- BartvanLeeuwen has joined #shapes
- 19:27:43 [Arnaud]
- ack kcoyle
- 19:28:19 [SimonSteyskal]
- kcoyle: big differences are number of user stories in both WGs we are comparing (shapes & ldp)
- 19:28:31 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... maybe we should reduce the number?
- 19:29:00 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 19:29:14 [BartvanLeeuwen]
- Zakim, ??P5 is me
- 19:29:14 [Zakim]
- +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
- 19:29:23 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: we have all the stories we have accepted, i dont know how much duplication we have and how much people would care if their story gets removed
- 19:30:09 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... editors could try to perform some merge/grey them out and the group could discuss that
- 19:31:44 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... most likely some issues will come up (authors brace yourselves)
- 19:31:52 [SimonSteyskal]
- +1
- 19:31:53 [kcoyle]
- ok with me
- 19:31:59 [Zakim]
- - +1.978.899.aacc
- 19:32:40 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... holger added a story and we should talk about that
- 19:33:09 [hknublau]
- +q
- 19:33:19 [Arnaud]
- ack hknublau
- 19:33:30 [Arnaud]
- https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/User_Stories#S8:_Checking_RDF_node_type
- 19:33:59 [SimonSteyskal]
- hknublau: story about rdf node type (whether something is a URI, blank node... )
- 19:34:56 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: hoölger added S8 to the document and questions is if group accepts this story
- 19:35:04 [SimonSteyskal]
- s/hölger/holger
- 19:35:09 [SimonSteyskal]
- s/hoölger/holger
- 19:35:32 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... we could wait to next week to formally approve it
- 19:36:03 [ArthurRyman]
- q+
- 19:36:11 [pfps]
- I don't like the story, but it is a story that should be considered.
- 19:36:24 [Arnaud]
- ack ArthurRyman
- 19:37:12 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... S8 took over an old story slot
- 19:37:25 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... thus the "low" number
- 19:38:22 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... if people have questions regarding this story, ask questions and we will approve it(or not) next week
- 19:38:42 [ArthurRyman]
- +1 for S8
- 19:39:00 [SimonSteyskal]
- TOPIC: Requirements
- 19:39:28 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: we have this wikipage where we have collected some requirements
- 19:40:10 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... we agreed to only talk about reqs. which were endorsed by more than 2 people
- 19:41:22 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... instead of voting during the call we should vote in the wiki
- 19:41:58 [Arnaud]
- https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Requirements
- 19:42:02 [ArthurRyman]
- where do we put the votes?
- 19:42:18 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... if you object to certain reqs than elaborate on that
- 19:42:37 [pfps]
- I'm assuming that the "default" vote is +1
- 19:42:39 [labra]
- +1
- 19:42:45 [Dimitris]
- +1
- 19:42:49 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... are people ok in approving this proposal?
- 19:42:51 [SimonSteyskal]
- +1
- 19:43:09 [kcoyle]
- +1
- 19:43:46 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... i will monitor the reqs list and will propose to accept all of those which have no -1 votes on them
- 19:44:23 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... we could start discussing some of the requirements now
- 19:44:29 [Arnaud]
- https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Requirements#Declarations_of_Property_Value_Type_.28Range.29
- 19:45:44 [SimonSteyskal]
- ericP: my issue was that declaration of property value types is unambiquitious
- 19:46:07 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... 3 different cases we should consider
- 19:46:12 [pfps]
- YUK!
- 19:46:17 [pfps]
- q+
- 19:46:35 [Arnaud]
- ack pfps
- 19:47:30 [SimonSteyskal]
- pfps: i see no difference in being 5 an integer and dick cheney a ??
- 19:48:43 [SimonSteyskal]
- ericP: OWL makes a sharp distinction between object and datatype properties
- 19:49:16 [ArthurRyman]
- q+
- 19:50:01 [SimonSteyskal]
- pfps: ease of use is a very seductive insent
- 19:51:17 [SimonSteyskal]
- pfps: form vs. meaning
- 19:51:31 [Arnaud]
- ack ArthurRyman
- 19:51:55 [SimonSteyskal]
- ArthurRyman: i didnt understand we peter thought that resource shapes are broken?
- 19:52:17 [SimonSteyskal]
- pfps: because it confuses form and meaning (actual syntax = meaning)
- 19:53:36 [SimonSteyskal]
- ArthurRyman: resource shapes were defined to check interface contracts (oslc)
- 19:54:00 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... there is a difference between int and integer
- 19:55:09 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... rs are defined to specify interfaces for applications
- 19:57:26 [ericP]
- FILTER (sameNode("5"^^xsd:byte, "5"^^xsd:integer)) => false
- 19:57:26 [SimonSteyskal]
- (some discussion on whether "5"^^xsd:int and "5"^^xsd:integer is/should be the same thing)
- 19:57:38 [ericP]
- FILTER ("5"^^xsd:byte = "5"^^xsd:integer) => true
- 19:59:14 [ArthurRyman]
- q+
- 19:59:20 [Arnaud]
- ack ArthurRyman
- 20:00:03 [ericP]
- -> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#operandDataTypes SPARQL's use of the XSD numeric types
- 20:00:46 [ericP]
- note that XSD doesn't have another category analagous to numerics
- 20:01:35 [SimonSteyskal]
- Arnaud: maybe we should follow erics suggestion and split that req. up
- 20:01:54 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... but leave it with that by now
- 20:02:28 [SimonSteyskal]
- ... if you do have objections, mark them so that we can discuss them
- 20:02:49 [Zakim]
- -BartvanLeeuwen
- 20:03:01 [BartvanLeeuwen]
- bye
- 20:03:03 [Zakim]
- -TallTed
- 20:03:05 [Zakim]
- -Arthur_Ryman
- 20:03:07 [Zakim]
- -hknublau
- 20:03:08 [Zakim]
- -SimonSteyskal
- 20:03:08 [Zakim]
- -pfps
- 20:03:10 [Zakim]
- -Arnaud
- 20:03:11 [Zakim]
- -Dimitris
- 20:03:13 [Zakim]
- -kcoyle
- 20:03:13 [Zakim]
- -labra
- 20:03:15 [Zakim]
- -ericP
- 20:03:17 [Zakim]
- DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM has ended
- 20:03:17 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.510.435.aaaa, Arnaud, kcoyle, ericP, SimonSteyskal, pfps, TallTed, Arthur_Ryman, Dimitris, labra, hknublau, +1.978.899.aacc, BartvanLeeuwen
- 20:04:32 [hknublau]
- hknublau has left #shapes
- 20:07:09 [Dimitris]
- Dimitris has left #shapes