IRC log of forms on 2014-12-03
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:58:14 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/03-forms-irc
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- RRSAgent, make logs public
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- Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
- 15:58:18 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
- 15:58:19 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
- 15:58:19 [trackbot]
- Date: 03 December 2014
- 15:58:38 [Steven]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Dec/0001
- 15:58:47 [Steven]
- Steven has changed the topic to: AgendaL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Dec/0001
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- Chair: Steven
- 15:58:57 [Steven]
- Regrets: Nick
- 15:59:45 [pfennell]
- pfennell has joined #forms
- 16:00:17 [ebruchez]
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- 16:00:34 [Zakim]
- IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
- 16:00:44 [Zakim]
- +??P35
- 16:00:49 [Steven]
- zakim, I am ?
- 16:00:49 [Zakim]
- +Steven; got it
- 16:01:04 [Zakim]
- +pfennell
- 16:03:16 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:03:17 [alain]
- Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
- 16:03:17 [Zakim]
- ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
- 16:04:18 [pfennell]
- The UK Government will be using XForms for the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG).
- 16:04:23 [Zakim]
- +ebruchez
- 16:05:48 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:48 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:48 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:48 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:48 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:49 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:49 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:49 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:49 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:49 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:05:49 [Steven]
- Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
- 16:06:21 [Steven]
- Steven: As I was just saying to Philip, I am chairing a meeting in London hosted by the UK Cabinet Office
- 16:06:48 [Steven]
- ... (a part of govt). The UK govt has decided to use ODF instead of MS Office
- 16:07:04 [Steven]
- ... and I am chairing that meeting (and talking about XForms)
- 16:07:14 [Steven]
- ... I won't be back in time for the call.
- 16:07:29 [Steven]
- http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2014-london/
- 16:07:58 [Steven]
- ... Good news all round.
- 16:08:34 [Steven]
- Topic: ACTION-1986 - Investigate dealing with excess namespace nodes in
- 16:08:34 [Steven]
- section 3.2 the instance element
- 16:08:34 [Steven]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Dec/0000.html
- 16:08:49 [Steven]
- (Nick's not here, so there are a number of items we can't handle today)
- 16:09:35 [Steven]
- Erik: [walks through the email]
- 16:16:31 [Steven]
- Steven: So you copy namespace nodes to the root of the instance for contained elements and attributes that have ns bindings, but NOT for namespaces in content?
- 16:16:36 [Steven]
- Erik: Right
- 16:18:12 [Steven]
- Steven: So if we adopted the backward-incompatible way, the only forms that would potential break would be those with namespace prefixes in content.
- 16:18:41 [ebruchez]
- Steven it seems the others can still hear me
- 16:18:46 [Steven]
- Steven Anyone else hear him?
- 16:19:26 [Steven]
- s/Steven Anyone else hear him?//
- 16:20:16 [Steven]
- Erik: Yes, namespaces in content, or for people who needed the namespaces to be in scope.
- 16:20:21 [Steven]
- Steven: Example?
- 16:21:14 [Steven]
- Erik: An instance that inherits a namespace node, that the form ends up using by creating nodes that use them...
- 16:21:56 [Steven]
- Alain: another possibility is when the forms are automatically created.
- 16:25:03 [Steven]
- Steven: Do we have a preference for backwards-compatibility/incompatibility?
- 16:25:17 [Steven]
- ... since the incompatible one is the one that is likely to occur more often.
- 16:25:36 [Steven]
- Erik: It is a broader compatibility issue, as raised by Nick.
- 16:25:50 [Steven]
- ... We can control that with @version
- 16:26:20 [Steven]
- ... I think that the default being the new behaviour is the better choice
- 16:27:48 [Steven]
- Erik: I prefer the incompatibility route
- 16:27:52 [Steven]
- Philip: Agree
- 16:27:59 [Steven]
- s/Erik/Alain/
- 16:28:21 [Steven]
- STeven: I can live with that
- 16:28:26 [Steven]
- s/ST/St/
- 16:28:43 [Steven]
- Erik: I think that's OK
- 16:29:28 [Steven]
- Steven: It means old forms have to have a textual change if they are affected, but there aren't many of those
- 16:30:02 [Steven]
- ... and let them be more explicit about the namespaces being used by copying them to the root element of the instance
- 16:30:52 [Steven]
- RESOLUTION: Adopt the "Backwards incompatible" version of namespace usage in instances
- 16:31:24 [Steven]
- ACTION: Erik to write text for new instance namespaces processing
- 16:31:24 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1990 - Write text for new instance namespaces processing [on Erik Bruchez - due 2014-12-10].
- 16:31:39 [Steven]
- Topic: Review section 9
- 16:31:39 [Steven]
- https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#Container_Form_Controls
- 16:32:13 [Steven]
- Steven: Alain sent a message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Dec/0002.html
- 16:32:47 [Steven]
- Steven: A good point.
- 16:33:42 [Steven]
- Erik: Isn't the goal of caseref and indexref to control the behaviour via an instance?
- 16:35:25 [Steven]
- Alain: toggle would not be possible with casevalue
- 16:35:30 [Steven]
- Erik: I see.
- 16:35:35 [Steven]
- ... that could work.
- 16:36:16 [Steven]
- Steven: So casevalue would calculate to a string which would select one of the IDs?
- 16:36:19 [Steven]
- Alain: Yes.
- 16:36:38 [Steven]
- Steven: Replacing caseref?
- 16:36:43 [Steven]
- Alain: No because of toggle.
- 16:37:13 [Steven]
- Erik: We already allow ref attributes to point to atomic values.
- 16:37:21 [ebruchez]
- @caseref="...compute the selected case..."
- 16:37:38 [Steven]
- ... there is nothing that would prevent us from having a caseref that returns a string.
- 16:38:28 [Steven]
- ... so we might not need another attribute
- 16:38:40 [Steven]
- Alain: But then we could deprecate output/@value
- 16:39:14 [Steven]
- Steven: I'd like longer to consider the ramifications; OK we put it off to nexxt call?
- 16:39:19 [Steven]
- s/xx/x/
- 16:39:37 [Steven]
- Steven: I had a couple of comments
- 16:40:21 [Steven]
- ... case has label as content, so it should have a label as attribute as well.
- 16:41:00 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/#ui-switch-module
- 16:42:06 [Steven]
- Erik: I'm not sure what we do with that label...
- 16:43:03 [Steven]
- Steven: case does not have help hint or alert on the other hand. It is not a control.
- 16:43:29 [Steven]
- Erik: It is not unreasonable that Case have a label (or even help and hint)
- 16:44:00 [Steven]
- ... it should either have none or all of them.
- 16:44:23 [Steven]
- Steven: We need to decide, and while we are about it, dialog has the same problem.
- 16:45:56 [Steven]
- s/same/similar/
- 16:46:08 [Steven]
- Erik: Dialog should have them all.
- 16:46:25 [Steven]
- Steven: dialog is much more clearly a control than case is
- 16:46:29 [Steven]
- Erik: Exactly.
- 16:46:48 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to add help hint alert elements to dialog
- 16:46:48 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1991 - Add help hint alert elements to dialog [on Steven Pemberton - due 2014-12-10].
- 16:47:26 [Steven]
- Steven: Back to <case>
- 16:47:34 [Steven]
- ... do we think of it as a control?
- 16:48:22 [Steven]
- Steven: So you think it is valid that it has a label
- 16:48:30 [Steven]
- Alain: Agree
- 16:48:41 [Steven]
- Steven: So we should add them all?
- 16:48:45 [Steven]
- Alain: Right
- 16:49:00 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to add help hint alert elements, and attributes to <case>
- 16:49:00 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1992 - Add help hint alert elements, and attributes to <case> [on Steven Pemberton - due 2014-12-10].
- 16:49:46 [Steven]
- Steven: I moved itemset and copy as agreed last week. All other comments from me are editorial.
- 16:50:59 [Steven]
- Steven: I propose we discuss section 10 at the call in two weeks time.
- 16:51:13 [Steven]
- Topic: AOB
- 16:51:18 [Steven]
- [None]
- 16:51:25 [Zakim]
- -pfennell
- 16:51:26 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 16:51:27 [Zakim]
- -ebruchez
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- -[IPcaller]
- 16:51:28 [Zakim]
- IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
- 16:51:28 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Steven, pfennell, [IPcaller], ebruchez
- 16:51:32 [Steven]
- Next call in two weeks
- 16:51:35 [Steven]
- [ADJOURN
- 16:51:39 [Steven]
- s/N/N]
- 16:51:46 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:51:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/03-forms-minutes.html Steven
- 16:52:21 [Steven]
- s/Net week/Next week/
- 16:52:22 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:52:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/03-forms-minutes.html Steven
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