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15:58:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/03-forms-irc
15:58:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:58:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:58:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:19 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:58:19 <trackbot> Date: 03 December 2014
15:58:38 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Dec/0001
15:58:47 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: AgendaL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Dec/0001
15:58:53 <Steven> Chair: Steven
15:58:57 <Steven> Regrets: Nick
15:59:45 <pfennell> pfennell has joined #forms
16:00:17 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
16:00:34 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
16:00:44 <Zakim> +??P35
16:00:49 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
16:00:49 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
16:01:04 <Zakim> +pfennell
16:03:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:03:17 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
16:03:17 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
16:04:18 <pfennell> The UK Government will be using XForms for the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG).
16:04:23 <Zakim> +ebruchez
16:05:48 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:48 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:48 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:48 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:48 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:49 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:49 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:49 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:49 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:49 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:05:49 <Steven> Topic: Net week's call (regrets from Steven, see next Topic)
16:06:21 <Steven> Steven: As I was just saying to Philip, I am chairing a meeting in London hosted by the UK Cabinet Office
16:06:48 <Steven> ... (a part of govt). The UK govt has decided to use ODF instead of MS Office
16:07:04 <Steven> ... and I am chairing that meeting (and talking about XForms)
16:07:14 <Steven> ... I won't be back in time for the call.
16:07:29 <Steven> http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/2014-london/
16:07:58 <Steven> ... Good news all round.
16:08:34 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-1986 - Investigate dealing with excess namespace nodes in
16:08:34 <Steven> section 3.2 the instance element
16:08:34 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Dec/0000.html
16:08:49 <Steven> (Nick's not here, so there are a number of items we can't handle today)
16:09:35 <Steven> Erik: [walks through the email]
16:16:31 <Steven> Steven: So you copy namespace nodes to the root of the instance for contained elements and attributes that have ns bindings, but NOT for namespaces in content?
16:16:36 <Steven> Erik: Right
16:18:12 <Steven> Steven: So if we adopted the backward-incompatible way, the only forms that would potential break would be those with namespace prefixes in content.
16:18:41 <ebruchez> Steven it seems the others can still hear me
16:18:46 <Steven> Steven Anyone else hear him?
16:19:26 <Steven> s/Steven Anyone else hear him?//
16:20:16 <Steven> Erik: Yes, namespaces in content, or for people who needed the namespaces to be in scope.
16:20:21 <Steven> Steven: Example?
16:21:14 <Steven> Erik: An instance that inherits a namespace node, that the form ends up using by creating nodes that use them...
16:21:56 <Steven> Alain: another possibility is when the forms are automatically  created.
16:25:03 <Steven> Steven: Do we have a preference for backwards-compatibility/incompatibility?
16:25:17 <Steven> ... since the incompatible one is the one that is likely to occur more often.
16:25:36 <Steven> Erik: It is a broader compatibility issue, as raised by Nick.
16:25:50 <Steven> ... We can control that with @version
16:26:20 <Steven> ... I think that the default being the new behaviour is the better choice
16:27:48 <Steven> Erik: I prefer the incompatibility route
16:27:52 <Steven> Philip: Agree
16:27:59 <Steven> s/Erik/Alain/
16:28:21 <Steven> STeven: I can live with that
16:28:26 <Steven> s/ST/St/
16:28:43 <Steven> Erik: I think that's OK
16:29:28 <Steven> Steven: It means old forms have to have a textual change if they are affected, but there aren't many of those
16:30:02 <Steven> ... and let them be more explicit about the namespaces being used by copying them to the root element of the instance
16:30:52 <Steven> RESOLUTION: Adopt the "Backwards incompatible" version of namespace usage in instances
16:31:24 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to write text for new instance namespaces processing
16:31:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1990 - Write text for new instance namespaces processing [on Erik Bruchez - due 2014-12-10].
16:31:39 <Steven> Topic: Review section 9
16:31:39 <Steven> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#Container_Form_Controls
16:32:13 <Steven> Steven: Alain sent a message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Dec/0002.html
16:32:47 <Steven> Steven: A good point.
16:33:42 <Steven> Erik: Isn't the goal of caseref and indexref to control the behaviour via an instance?
16:35:25 <Steven> Alain: toggle would not be possible with casevalue
16:35:30 <Steven> Erik: I see.
16:35:35 <Steven> ... that could work.
16:36:16 <Steven> Steven: So casevalue would calculate to a string which would select one of the IDs?
16:36:19 <Steven> Alain: Yes.
16:36:38 <Steven> Steven: Replacing caseref?
16:36:43 <Steven> Alain: No because of toggle.
16:37:13 <Steven> Erik: We already allow ref attributes to point to atomic values.
16:37:21 <ebruchez> @caseref="...compute the selected case..."
16:37:38 <Steven> ... there is nothing that would prevent us from having a caseref that returns a string.
16:38:28 <Steven> ... so we might not need another attribute
16:38:40 <Steven> Alain: But then we could deprecate output/@value
16:39:14 <Steven> Steven: I'd like longer to consider the ramifications; OK we put it off to nexxt call?
16:39:19 <Steven> s/xx/x/
16:39:37 <Steven> Steven: I had a couple of comments
16:40:21 <Steven> ... case has label as content, so it should have a label as attribute as well.
16:41:00 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/#ui-switch-module
16:42:06 <Steven> Erik: I'm not sure what we do with that label...
16:43:03 <Steven> Steven: case does not have help hint or alert on the other hand. It is not a control.
16:43:29 <Steven> Erik: It is not unreasonable that Case have a label (or even help and hint)
16:44:00 <Steven> ... it should either have none or all of them.
16:44:23 <Steven> Steven: We need to decide, and while we are about it, dialog has the same problem.
16:45:56 <Steven> s/same/similar/
16:46:08 <Steven> Erik: Dialog should have them all.
16:46:25 <Steven> Steven: dialog is much more clearly a control than case is
16:46:29 <Steven> Erik: Exactly.
16:46:48 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to add help hint alert elements to dialog
16:46:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1991 - Add help hint alert elements to dialog [on Steven Pemberton - due 2014-12-10].
16:47:26 <Steven> Steven: Back to <case>
16:47:34 <Steven> ... do we think of it as a control?
16:48:22 <Steven> Steven: So you think it is valid that it has a label
16:48:30 <Steven> Alain: Agree
16:48:41 <Steven> Steven: So we should add them all?
16:48:45 <Steven> Alain: Right
16:49:00 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to add help hint alert elements, and attributes to <case>
16:49:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1992 - Add help hint alert elements, and attributes to <case> [on Steven Pemberton - due 2014-12-10].
16:49:46 <Steven> Steven: I moved itemset and copy as agreed last week. All other comments from me are editorial.
16:50:59 <Steven> Steven: I propose we discuss section 10 at the call in two weeks time.
16:51:13 <Steven> Topic: AOB
16:51:18 <Steven> [None]
16:51:25 <Zakim> -pfennell
16:51:26 <Zakim> -Steven
16:51:27 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:51:27 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:51:28 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
16:51:28 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven, pfennell, [IPcaller], ebruchez
16:51:32 <Steven> Next call in two weeks
16:51:35 <Steven> [ADJOURN
16:51:39 <Steven> s/N/N]
16:51:46 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:51:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/03-forms-minutes.html Steven
16:52:21 <Steven> s/Net week/Next week/
16:52:22 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:52:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/03-forms-minutes.html Steven
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