See also: IRC log
<steph> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2014Nov/0012.html
<scribe> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2014Nov/0012.html
Dave is going through and calling roll.
<mountie> hi
dezell: Two discussion items - outreach to other groups, and IG deliverables.
<wseltzer> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2014Nov/0012.html
dezell: What can we accomplish, what can we sign
up for... then a task force report. Any other business after that - setting our
telecon schedule to accommodate our task forces.
... anything else we should add to the Agenda?
No other additions to agenda.
dezell: Please join IRC first, before you dial in
- Zakim will tell you what your phone number is when you join. Register
yourself.
... You can do this like so - "zakim, aabb is MyName"
... Do that when you dial in - that would be helpful.
... You can also say: "Zakim, aabb is me"
... Stephane has redone the homepage.
<steph> http://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/
dezell: It has a link to a blog
steph: There's the link - I've reworked the
previous page - same information except now we have a blog that will be news
from the group. Short summary of face-to-face. What we see on the page is the
last two blog posts.
... It's an excerpt - when we have more than just two posts, it'll take up the
entire page.
... anyone in the group can post news if they feel like it.
... Or you can ask me to do so.
... This page is the IG page - if there is something missing, ask me - happy
to add more info
... top menu bar - shortcuts to most important things
evert: I don't see the blog posts
steph: It's there...
dezell: Sounds like you have a cached page...
evert: refreshing - that worked, thanks.
dezell: Is there a link on this page to post to the blog?
steph: No, I'll add that.
<scribe> ACTION: Stephane to add link to post entry to blog to home page. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/14-wpay-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-15 - Add link to post entry to blog to home page. [on Stéphane Boyera - due 2014-11-21].
dezell: I like this change - gives us a more dynamic look on the home page. I like this a lot better.
mountie: At the bottom of the page - there is something - staff contact?
steph: EU Commission covers my staff contact salary (which is tiny)... so that's why we have the link to it.
dezell: I see the sentence about the research framework - where is the link?
<wseltzer> http://html5apps-project.eu/
steph: If you click on the icon?
dezell: Any changes to agenda? Ok w/ what I read out?
No changes requested.
dezell: I'm going to wait on rest of Administrivia until end of call.
<steph> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2014Nov/0007.html
<steph> everything listed from https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page#IG_Meetings
<steph> last minutes: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2014Nov/0007.html
evert: I saw an exchange w/ Chaals and short blog post by stephane
dezell: I don't know if his blog post was all
that short.
... Evert, can you let us see what the blog post at top of page looks like?
steph: What I did was a blog post for W3C - it was just my view of things.
<steph> http://www.w3.org/blog/2014/11/payment-industry-priorities-meeting-summary-of-web-payments-ig/
steph: This one was just the part that related to the group, but that's the same content.
dezell: Let's talk about making this a more official summary, if that's ok.
<djackso3> zakim 614.560.aacc is me
dezell: I personally think it's fine, since we
posted this URL, the group should ask to change summary
... If they want to.
... Any other comments on the review of previous minutes?
... anyone unhappy w/ minutes from last time.
... The minutes are approved.
<dezell> http://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/track/actions/open
RESOLUTION: Minutes for 2014-11-07 are approved for publication.
<steph> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Face2face_possible_colocation_event
<steph> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Relevant_Conferences_for_the_IG
dezell: Trying to pick a date for co-location
event is hard, but we do have a page on the wiki - Stephane has put that out
there for us. Starting list.
... We're trying to find a good place for a face-to-face, we're looking for
these because we may want the IG to have a presence there. Find someone in the
group willing to participate. Find co-location opportunities that will reduce
travel expenses for people.
... That page right now, steph refresh my memory - there is only one wiki
page, right?
steph: There are two pages.
... One is for the co-location of next face-to-face...
<steph> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Face2face_possible_colocation_event
<steph> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Relevant_Conferences_for_the_IG
steph: the other one is about important
conferences.
... That's about where you think we should highlight the work in this
group.
... Get speaking slots, get more people into the group via those venues.
... We just passed CART 2014... and so on.
dezell: I'm going to try and get people to agree
that we can retire ACTION-1
... We haven't picked the next location/date - I'd say let's close ACTION-1
<steph> trackbot, close action-1
<trackbot> Closed action-1.
dezell: anyone disagree?
... We need to get use cases out of ISO 12812 - Claudia needs input on
that.
... I've also been talking a good bit to Steve Stevens of X9 - talking about
strategies for mutual agreements w/ TC68 - they seem to have the most prior art
in this space.
... Everyone is apologetic about how bureaucratic they are. So, I need to
contact Claudia
... Stephane to post summary of meeting - leave this one open?
<djackso3> djackso3 is David Jackson
steph: I'm in agreement with myself on this.
... :P
dezell: Leave that open
... Evert setup a glossary
<steph> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Glossary
evert: Just a quick discussion about list being alphabetized
manu: I don't see terminology pulled in from the
Web Payments CG Use Cases document.
... Are we going to do that at some point?
<steph> Manu: bzzz bzzz bzzzzbzzz
evert: Do you have a list available?
... Took key words from use cases as listed by the IG... that should be
similar to CG...
... Need input and references.
manu: I can get that to you.
dezell: Let's take that to email
manu: To be clear - I'm fine w/ the action being marked as completed.
Jean-Yves: About the glossary - International
Bank of Settlements - publishing glossary for payments/settlements - last one
was issued in march 2003, it's a bit old.
... I'll check if we can get some input on that.
dezell: Getting glossary into some kind of shape,
and get it in line w/ industry practice is ongoing challenge.
... So, next one is for Erik - investigate use cases.
... He's not here - so can't do that one.
... If people go to main page of wiki - don't know if I've done enough here or
not
<steph> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page
mountie: if we keep some information at wiki - we need more information there.
dezell: The actual structure, if you're willing
to work on that, it gives us a way to link to the page w/ language. I don't
quite understand all wiki syntax - languages of pages, put links to wikidocs on
this topic.
... I'd like to retire this action - we have it on the page.
mountie: I understand.
<dezell> trackbot, close action-13.
<trackbot> Closed action-13.
trackbot, action-13?
<trackbot> action-13 -- David Ezell to Come back with a solution to korean-specific information -- due 2014-11-14 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/track/actions/13
dezell: Any other actions we should be
tracking?
... With that, let's move to the discussions.
dezell: Where do people think we should spend our
time? Any specific conferences?
... Went to Atlanta US Fed Reserve bank, presented - all day meeting - main
topic of discussion at that meeting was tokenization. Roughly, half of people
in the room were there to shoot holes in tokenization schemes. Other half were
there were not sure if tokenization was what they wanted to talk about.
<bryan> Was that at the FRB MPIW working group meeting?
dezell: Got a lot of positive feedback about W3C and Web Payments IG meeting - Walmart was there, Jamie. Also JP Morgan Bank was there, some of same sorts of folks Erik Anderson is interfacing with. MAGTech - equipment manufacturer. I'll be posting something more definitive... US Fed Reserve all day workshops - we should have some sort of visibility
manu: Here's my list:
<bryan> Is there a public link to the meeting info, could someone post?
* (NACHA) Payments 2015
* US Fed Payment Roundtables
* http://bankinnovation.net/2014/08/fed-payments-panel-recommends-replacing-ach/
* United Nation's Internet Governance Forum
* http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/preparatory-process-2015
* Inside Bitcoins Conference
* https://bitcoin.org/en/events
* Financial Innovation Forum
dezell: X9 is there, not only people that should be there.
steph: I'll add Manu's in the wiki - perhaps we can go beyond conferences. If each of you contribute to best conference, that would be very helpful.
manu: We should ping Dave Birch about what he thinks wrt. this as well.
steph: Very influential magazines -
manu: Payments Source, CoinDesk, Bank Innovation
steph: Any other ways of getting visibility?
Mobile world - analysts have big role to play predicting/forecast.
... I'm ready to put an effort on this in the next few minutes.
evert: also influential blogs such as Consult Hyperion?
<evert> a blog like Cinsult Hyperion is useful as well
<bryan> Fyi, by MPIW I refer to http://www.bostonfed.org/bankinfo/payment-strategies/mpiw/
<evert> Consult Hyperion
dezell: I think these things are important -
Money 20/20 important - I'm further behind where stephane is - where are the
journals... where are the right places to go.
... That's why we're putting this out to the group.
... I was on panel w/ RSA guy.
... Any other discussions.
Nitin: Three questions on tokenization... recent
article on forum around tokenization. From some of us that are working w/
clients in the field - mobile payments, we ought to have a foundational
technologies bit.
... From that perspective, should we outline fundamental technologies - that
may set the tone... show our work.
manu: +1
... We should be getting to something concrete as quickly as possible...
dezell: Yes, one thing in our charter review -
some thought we should cut some of the stuff in the charter out.
... For IG, it's almost too soon to say "we won't look at something".
... There was a person from BitPay - large amount of interest in Bitcoin...
becoming more and more common.
... Other digital currencies will follow along - USD has been a digital
currency for a couple of decades now.
... The overall way that the industry is going - task force for Payment Agent
- what are actual methods that might be ensconced in this work? Standards
cards, tokenization schemes, ISO tokenization schemes, Apple Pay, other digital
currency schemes, ACH schemes, etc.
... I do see - ongoing guideline that we're following.
manu: I think Nitin has a good point...
... Meaning that there are some fundamental things we're going to need to
do.
... For example - if we think digital receipts are important - we're going to
have to have some extensible format for those.
... So, there is a balance
... We don't want to stay too high level
... But we don't want to go down and say: These are the exact/only
technologies we'll be using for Web Payments.
... At this point, I'm afraid that we're going a bit too high level.
... maybe that'll work itself out over the next coupel of months.
<bryan> +1 avoiding trimming the tech scope prematurely
dezell: This segues into upcoming telecon
schedule. Task force that is looking into payment agent, touches on a lot of
thse points. High-level things in this group meeting, deeper dive will happen
in other meetings.
... I agree with you Manu, in general, I think we have a plan for getting
there.
... Initial IG deliverable - what and when?
dezell: Maybe we should have some ideas send by IG members on what initial deliverables should be.
manu: I think use cases and requirements document is the most important thing we could do.
dezell: Do we want Payment Agent document, or use cases?
steph: In charter, we have a list of deliverables
- my view - related to your question - the most important thing - roadmap -
what are major building blocks that need to be addressed?
... Associated with those blocks, we need use cases. Whether we target that,
or we have a higher-level version - use case and framework document... we could
discuss that as well.
... Use Cases are interesting/great - more important from my perspective is
what many mentioned - what are the various modules that are needed and what is
missing?
... Happy to have this discussion via email.
... There are two things we need to move relatively quickly - to keep momentum
up... having a target, February - that might be the latest possible. My
experience is that it's good to have a target date.
... That's a point, defining what is possible is important - I'll take an
action to launch this discussion.
<scribe> ACTION: Stephane to launch discussion about deliverables for the IG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/14-wpay-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Launch discussion about deliverables for the ig. [on Stéphane Boyera - due 2014-11-21].
steph: We should ask Task Force heads to convene
meeting at some point - they're free to use the telecon line?
... People are free to use the telecon line - happy to create meeting for them
- they need to let us know date/time.
... My suggestion is for Task Force to use the same slots as the one we have
now - various task forces meeting at various times.
... For example, Joerg happy to have a meeting next week on architecture he's
talking about.
<steph> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Payment_Agent_Task_Force
steph: So he and I have worked on that, but we
need to discuss it w/ the group.
... Now it's time to discuss w/ a broader audience. Happy to have a call
dedicated to that next week.
... We need to give people time to read it before the call.
dezell: Payment Agent Task Force will meet at
this time next week.
... Glossary task force - please sign up for that task force.
evert: I can also setup a document via the
mailing list first.
... Harvest more before we get into the discussion.
dezell: I am leading the use cases for now - I'd like for another IG member to have that Task Force, I have it for now.
<steph> +1
<David_Jackson> Not certain all that it encompasses <newbie> but would be interested in seeing how I could help
dezell: Having a roadmap of what needs to be done was most popular idea at US Fed. There are lots of ideas on how things are going to work, knowing a way/method of approaching it is something that everyone wants to see. It's an important opportunity.
<Nitin> Manu I can help.. just need help with some W# related processes
<Nitin> W3 relayted processes
dezell: I was sort of thinking about moving it into the week. Is that a dumb idea? 9:30am Tuesday?
<mountie> +1
evert: That's a problem for me.
... Tuesday is quite busy
<bryan> Maybe run a doodle poll on the time?
<JyR> +1
<mountie> not the time, but the day
mountie: 9:30am is good - time is good, focus on the day.
<Evgeny> yes
steph: Everyone is ok with time?
dezell: West Coasters not happy w/ time, but this works for most.
<evert> +1
<scribe> ACTION: Stephane to run Doodle Poll to find different day for the Web Payments IG call. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/14-wpay-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-17 - Run doodle poll to find different day for the web payments ig call. [on Stéphane Boyera - due 2014-11-21].
<bryan> 6:30am is Business as usual on the west coast
dezell: Any other business?
<padler> Hi all.. sorry to interrupt.. but I am getting a conference restricted message when trying to dial the bridge..
<JyR> same for me
<steph> rrsagetn, make minutes