IRC log of aria-apg on 2014-11-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:32:30 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
- 17:32:30 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/14-aria-apg-irc
- 17:32:36 [jamesn]
- jamesn has joined #aria-apg
- 17:32:39 [LJWatson]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:32:39 [Zakim]
- sorry, LJWatson, I don't know what conference this is
- 17:32:42 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see jamesn, RRSAgent, Zakim, mattking, LJWatson, bgaraventa1979, kooje, MichaelC, trackbot
- 17:32:48 [jamesn]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:32:48 [Zakim]
- sorry, jamesn, I don't know what conference this is
- 17:32:50 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see jamesn, RRSAgent, Zakim, mattking, LJWatson, bgaraventa1979, kooje, MichaelC, trackbot
- 17:32:51 [LJWatson]
- zakim this is 92463
- 17:33:00 [MichaelC]
- zakim, this is 92473
- 17:33:00 [Zakim]
- ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PF()12:30PM
- 17:33:16 [jamesn]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:33:16 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see +1.217.244.aaaa, +1.650.738.aabb, Matt_King, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen
- 17:33:29 [LJWatson]
- zakim, [IPcaller] is LJWatson
- 17:33:29 [Zakim]
- +LJWatson; got it
- 17:33:39 [jamesn]
- zakim, aabb is Bryan_Garaventa
- 17:33:39 [Zakim]
- +Bryan_Garaventa; got it
- 17:34:01 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 17:34:14 [kooje]
- my last name is ku
- 17:34:29 [kooje]
- my first name is Jaeun but I would go by Jemma
- 17:34:31 [MichaelC]
- meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices
- 17:34:41 [kooje]
- I am from University of illinois, urbana-champaign
- 17:35:29 [jamesn]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:35:29 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Jemma_Ku, Bryan_Garaventa, Matt_King, LJWatson, James_Nurthen
- 17:36:03 [kooje]
- my phone number starts with 217
- 17:36:23 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 17:36:35 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 17:36:50 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 17:38:24 [MichaelC]
- agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/117FD62B-F19D-4AAD-BD7E-99D77B1A5895@oracle.com
- 17:43:29 [jamesn]
- .... git wiki here
- 17:43:29 [jamesn]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices
- 17:45:59 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 17:48:02 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 17:50:28 [jamesn]
- scribe: jamesn
- 17:50:37 [MichaelC]
- chair: Matt_King
- 17:50:40 [jamesn]
- TOPIC: Link Example
- 17:51:01 [MichaelC]
- ackme
- 17:51:04 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 17:51:32 [jamesn]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/examples/link-design-pattern/links.html
- 17:51:37 [jamesn]
- rawgit.com
- 17:52:21 [jamesn]
- took this https://github.com/w3c/aria/blob/master/practices/examples/link-design-pattern/links.html
- 17:52:30 [jamesn]
- and pasted into rawgit.com
- 17:54:03 [jamesn]
- MK: Main question is should we include notes
- 17:54:43 [jamesn]
- MK: 1 thing i noticed is that you don't get a link context menu when you right click on a link coded this way. One thing that we might want to talk about in the notes
- 17:55:13 [jamesn]
- MK: they wouldn't be able to know how you are getting the target. Some of the context menu actions wouldn't work
- 17:55:21 [jamesn]
- BG: depends what they are using it for
- 17:55:32 [jamesn]
- BG: There isn't really anything that fits the UI
- 17:55:42 [jamesn]
- BG: It is up to the author if they want to do this
- 17:56:23 [jamesn]
- JN: I don't think it is an accessibility issue - and don't think FF would consider this a bug
- 17:57:29 [jamesn]
- MK: Where in the guide do we want to include info about what works in what browser etc.
- 17:57:31 [jamesn]
- MK: I would much rather see that in the examples
- 17:57:54 [jamesn]
- LW: who is going to keep that up to date
- 17:58:15 [jamesn]
- BG: JF was putting together an aria compatibility matrix or has been talking aout it
- 17:58:25 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 17:58:33 [jamesn]
- LW: tried for something at CSUN but didnt get off the ground
- 17:58:42 [jamesn]
- MC: tets harness not working right now
- 17:58:54 [jamesn]
- LW: are there plans to keep that up to date
- 17:59:13 [jamesn]
- MC: the latest decision was to keep it up to date but has always been a stopgap tool.
- 17:59:57 [jamesn]
- MK: there is an opportunity to use these as test cases. the examples might facilitate test cases
- 18:00:11 [jamesn]
- MC: might want to consider test the web forward framework
- 18:00:29 [jamesn]
- MC: designed around script based automated testing of features
- 18:00:40 [jamesn]
- LW: would like to know more about this anyway
- 18:00:48 [MichaelC]
- http://testthewebforward.org/
- 18:01:01 [jamesn]
- MC: link for docs and getting started
- 18:01:13 [jamesn]
- MC: writing tests and running tests
- 18:01:41 [jamesn]
- MC: in theory not limited to the kinds of tests they document there. in practice get the most benefits if using the kind of tests they already have support for.
- 18:01:52 [jamesn]
- LW: don't think this changes my stance
- 18:02:05 [jamesn]
- MC: WCAG has moved to an auxiliary page
- 18:02:09 [kooje]
- can you tell me what testing tool we are talking about?
- 18:02:16 [jamesn]
- MC: also an accessibility support DB project
- 18:02:34 [jamesn]
- JN: sounds like the best fit we have so far
- 18:02:41 [kooje]
- never mind
- 18:02:43 [MichaelC]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/
- 18:03:36 [jamesn]
- LW: circling back to including notes with examples
- 18:03:50 [jamesn]
- LW: good to get a general format of what we want to include in these examples
- 18:04:02 [LJWatson]
- http://ljwatson.github.io/ARIA-examples/link-examples/links.html
- 18:04:15 [jamesn]
- BG: like the idea of the basic markup. Keyboard support needs to be there.
- 18:04:38 [jamesn]
- BG: combining with refs to w3c tutorials would also be good
- 18:06:52 [jamesn]
- MK: don't want to repeat what is in the APG
- 18:07:05 [jamesn]
- MK: but something to explain what is implemented.
- 18:07:37 [jamesn]
- MK: how many people need stuff explained why certain things are there.
- 18:08:23 [jamesn]
- MK: really like the phrases like where it says the span element is not natively interactive
- 18:08:35 [kooje]
- I agree.
- 18:09:52 [jamesn]
- BG: link to a checklist within the aria bpg guide which indicates that span not a native element etc.
- 18:12:00 [kooje]
- I like the idea of explaining of the clear purpose in the notes.
- 18:13:52 [jamesn]
- BG: a kind of footnotes kind of thing might be useful
- 18:14:02 [jamesn]
- BG: if there was a general guidance section.
- 18:15:02 [kooje]
- can use a different label, not "notes"?
- 18:15:20 [jamesn]
- MK: precede with something specific and then add generic stuff
- 18:15:53 [jamesn]
- BG: There are going to be a lot of commonalities between thjinngs with for example aria-activedescendent
- 18:16:14 [jamesn]
- MK: the other thing to keep in mind is that things like combobox could end up with multiple examples
- 18:16:26 [jamesn]
- MK: when we do that I am envisioning 1 page with multiple examples
- 18:16:41 [jamesn]
- MK: probably each would have 1 set of notes
- 18:16:46 [jamesn]
- BG: I agree
- 18:17:18 [kooje]
- as a developer, I felt confused because there are so many options
- 18:17:29 [jamesn]
- JN: sometimes makes pages more difficult to write
- 18:18:05 [jamesn]
- BG: have been building out some samples. Sometimes the requirements to make things accessible are very different
- 18:18:34 [jamesn]
- BG: sometimes the requirements vs a readonly element varies quite a bit across devices
- 18:19:12 [jamesn]
- Describing the differences is very important
- 18:19:32 [jamesn]
- BG: you have to use different attributes and techniques
- 18:20:01 [jamesn]
- MK: A table that lists the examples in the APG could accomplish this
- 18:20:31 [kooje]
- table idea sounds good
- 18:20:32 [jamesn]
- JN: brief description in APG is useful
- 18:20:47 [jamesn]
- MK: hopefully will allow us to create a repeatable pattern
- 18:22:07 [jamesn]
- BG: if typing into an editable combobox that is fine. Need to be able to navigate left and right within the textbox. There has to be some sort of scripting behaviour.
- 18:22:26 [jamesn]
- BG: there are variations that don't translate equally
- 18:22:53 [jamesn]
- JN: some things sound like screen reader issues
- 18:26:00 [Zakim]
- -LJWatson
- 18:26:04 [jamesn]
- LW: have enough to create more notes for links
- 18:26:58 [jamesn]
- TOPIC: Future meetings
- 18:27:29 [jamesn]
- Will not meet Nov 28, Dec 26 or Jan 2
- 18:27:43 [kooje]
- ok
- 18:28:14 [mattking]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#checkbox
- 18:28:40 [jamesn]
- TOPIC: Checkbox
- 18:29:58 [jamesn]
- MK: this is what got us into the keyboard handling part
- 18:31:01 [jamesn]
- Topic: button
- 18:31:04 [mattking]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#button
- 18:31:21 [jamesn]
- MK: I am going to propose some changes to the keyboard handling section
- 18:31:36 [jamesn]
- MK: something that explains the fundamentals of focus management
- 18:31:46 [kooje]
- As a newbie to the group, is there any way I can help? It would be nice if I can do shadow work of one of members.
- 18:32:12 [jamesn]
- MK: gets deep fast... would be nice if in section 3 there was something that was higher level
- 18:34:15 [jamesn]
- MK: want to link to this - and takes too long to get to what is relevant
- 18:35:38 [jamesn]
- JN: too many words...
- 18:35:54 [jamesn]
- MK: some bits more important to toolkit writers or screen reader users.
- 18:36:08 [jamesn]
- MK: fewer than half the words are needed
- 18:37:20 [jamesn]
- JN: I think we should give people some guidance as to what is and what is not a toggle button.
- 18:37:37 [jamesn]
- MK: should mention that there are 3 different types of buttons
- 18:37:54 [jamesn]
- MK: just a link to menu button
- 18:39:46 [jamesn]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27327
- 18:41:43 [jamesn]
- MK: a toggle button label shouldn't change when its state changes
- 18:44:29 [jamesn]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27328
- 18:47:13 [jamesn]
- JN: there are cases where you do want focus to move from a button for example add a new search criteria - you want to move to the new crtieria
- 18:48:27 [jamesn]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27329
- 18:49:36 [jamesn]
- MK: going to take out references to external examples
- 18:49:49 [jamesn]
- MK: as we replace them
- 18:50:28 [jamesn]
- MK: stop here now
- 18:50:35 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:50:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/14-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
- 18:50:39 [kooje]
- I cannot hear anything
- 18:50:43 [jamesn]
- zakim, please part
- 18:50:43 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.217.244.aaaa, +1.650.738.aabb, Matt_King, James_Nurthen, LJWatson, Bryan_Garaventa, Jemma_Ku, Michael_Cooper
- 18:50:43 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria-apg
- 18:51:03 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:51:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/14-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
- 18:52:46 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 18:52:57 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #aria-apg
- 18:53:03 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 18:53:17 [MichaelC]
- zakim, unmute Michael
- 18:53:17 [Zakim]
- Michael_Cooper was not muted, MichaelC
- 18:55:08 [Zakim]
- -Jemma_Ku
- 18:58:50 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 18:58:51 [Zakim]
- -James_Nurthen
- 18:58:53 [Zakim]
- -Matt_King
- 18:58:54 [Zakim]
- -Bryan_Garaventa
- 18:58:54 [Zakim]
- WAI_PF()12:30PM has ended
- 18:58:54 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.217.244.aaaa, +1.650.738.aabb, Matt_King, James_Nurthen, LJWatson, Bryan_Garaventa, Jemma_Ku, Michael_Cooper
- 18:58:55 [MichaelC]
- zakim, bye
- 18:58:55 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria-apg