14:58:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #w3process
14:58:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-irc
14:58:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:58:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:58:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:58:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference
14:58:22 <trackbot> Date: 11 November 2014
14:58:42 <timeless> zakim, this is process
14:58:43 <Zakim> ok, timeless; that matches AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM
14:59:01 <timeless> Zakim, mute me
14:59:01 <Zakim> sorry, timeless, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:59:52 <Zakim> +Jeff
15:00:04 <timeless> Zakim, who is on the call
15:00:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', timeless
15:00:08 <timeless> Zakim, who is on the call?
15:00:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.416.440.aaaa, Jeff
15:00:13 <timeless> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:00:13 <Zakim> +timeless; got it
15:00:23 <timeless> Zakim, mute me
15:00:23 <Zakim> timeless should now be muted
15:00:26 <timeless> scribe: timeless
15:00:33 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:00:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:00:36 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:37 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:00:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:01:38 <SteveZ> SteveZ has joined #w3process
15:02:47 <Zakim> +SteveZ
15:03:42 <SteveZ> trackbot, start telcon
15:03:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:03:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
15:03:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:03:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference
15:03:47 <trackbot> Date: 11 November 2014
15:04:03 <timeless> s/Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference//
15:04:07 <timeless> s/Date: 11 November 2014//
15:04:10 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:04:20 <timeless> chair: SteveZ
15:04:25 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:04:25 <SteveZ> zakim, this will be #proc
15:04:25 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, SteveZ
15:04:44 <timeless> s/trackbot, start telcon//
15:04:48 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:04:54 <timeless> Zakim, who is on the call?
15:04:54 <Zakim> I notice AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM has restarted
15:04:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see timeless (muted), Jeff, SteveZ
15:06:22 <jeff> timeless, agenda was sent in email.
15:06:52 <Zakim> +Mike_Champion
15:07:12 <chaals> chaals has joined #w3process
15:07:49 <timeless> Zakim, unmute me
15:07:49 <Zakim> timeless should no longer be muted
15:08:21 <timeless> s/timeless, agenda was sent in email.//
15:09:23 <jeff> Here comes the agenda
15:09:26 <jeff> Agenda:
15:09:26 <jeff> 1.      Review Open Action Items
15:09:26 <jeff> https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/actions/open
15:09:26 <jeff> 2.      Discuss Meeting time
15:09:26 <jeff> This Telcon now begins at Midnight in Japan and at 1AM in Australia. Possible other time include:
15:09:39 <jeff> 3.      Issue-141: Improve Errata management in W3C
15:09:39 <jeff> Proposed replacement text for section 7.7.1 was sent:
15:09:39 <jeff> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Nov/0004.html
15:09:39 <jeff> and Proposal and associated discussion thread begins at:
15:09:39 <jeff> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Oct/0139.html
15:09:41 <jeff> Charles has an Action: Propose a resolution for issue 141 to propose an alternative replacement text.
15:09:45 <jeff> 4.      Issue-129 Remove Coordination Groups
15:09:46 <jeff> 5.      Issue-144: Chairs are asking for clarification for Wide Review
15:09:48 <jeff> The Document Review wiki has been edited to resolve concerns expressed so efforts to create an RfC announcement list should proceed. Some editing of the text of the Wide Review section, to indicate the desired purposes of the changes to Wide Review, is still needed.
15:09:52 <jeff> http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-widereview-minutes.html
15:09:54 <jeff> See thread announcing the results of the CfC:
15:09:56 <jeff> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Oct/0157.html
15:09:58 <jeff> 6.      Issue-140: The description of the Team in Section 2.2 of the process document is out of date
15:10:00 <jeff> We seem to be reaching consensus on not listing rights and responsibilities of the Director in 2.2. We have not, however, reached consensus on whether the Process Document should have or point to a definition of the W3C. There are two points that have been raised: (a) The legal status of the W3C does not need to be discussed in the Process and (b) the term “W3C” is used in the Process Document and should have a definition within that document, but, perhaps,
15:10:06 <jeff> it a separate section rather than part of section 2.2.
15:10:08 <jeff> And if time is available:
15:10:10 <jeff> 7.      Issue-138: Does the process assume ‘an’ editor, or is group-editing formally ok?
15:10:14 <jeff> 8.      Issue-97: Is using the term "Board" in "Advisory Board" really accurate and representative?
15:10:16 <jeff> 9.      Any other business
15:11:10 <timeless> s/Here comes the agenda/Topic: Agenda/
15:11:26 <timeless> i/Topic: Agenda/scribe: jeff/
15:11:36 <timeless> s/Agenda://
15:11:53 <timeless> scribe: timeless
15:12:13 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:12:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:12:34 <timeless> s/scribe: timeless//
15:12:35 <timeless> s/scribe: timeless//
15:12:37 <timeless> scribe: timeless
15:12:51 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:12:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:13:12 <timeless> topic: Review Open Action Items
15:13:19 <timeless> SteveZ: i'll skip action items, because chaals isn't on
15:13:25 <timeless> topic: Discuss Meeting time
15:13:44 <timeless> SteveZ: the agenda had two other times
15:13:49 <timeless> ... we don't have Jay (it's midnight for him)
15:13:52 <chaals_> chaals_ has joined #w3process
15:14:01 <timeless> ... the other times that seem to make sense are 6AM Japan (+1 day)
15:14:16 <timeless> ... 1pm on West Coast, 4pm on East Coast, 10pm in Central Europe
15:14:27 <timeless> ... or 7AM Japan ... which pushes it to 11pm in Central Europe
15:14:44 <timeless> ... we don't have chaals
15:14:49 <timeless> timeless: chaals is in Spain
15:15:09 <timeless> s/chaals is in Spain//
15:15:30 <timeless> jeff: can we do this via Email?
15:15:54 <timeless> michael: what about rotating?
15:15:55 <chaals> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:15:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html chaals
15:15:58 <timeless> SteveZ: that gets really confusing
15:16:12 <timeless> michael: it's confusing, but it shares the pain
15:16:25 <timeless> ... rather than just saying "ok, well you people in East Asia, get used to it"
15:16:36 <timeless> SteveZ: i'll resend this out
15:16:41 <timeless> timeless: as a doodle poll?
15:16:45 <timeless> SteveZ: i should do that
15:16:49 <timeless> jeff: one other complexity
15:17:00 <timeless> ... when i look at the times for the US, 4/5 or 10
15:17:05 <timeless> ... it depends on the day of the week
15:17:13 <timeless> ... each of us have other standing meetings/standing conflicts
15:17:22 <timeless> ... maybe do the poll 5 days, 3 times = 15 times
15:17:25 <timeless> ... to find out which works
15:17:27 <timeless> SteveZ: ok
15:17:37 <timeless> topic: Issue-141: Improve Errata management in W3C
15:17:48 <timeless> SteveZ: chaals was going to give an alternative update
15:17:52 <chaals> [chaals thinks rotating is a reasonable option]
15:17:52 <timeless> ... to the text i proposed
15:17:57 <timeless> ... i haven't seen that text
15:18:06 <timeless> ... it's getting late to send something out to PSIG for comment
15:18:20 <jeff> +1 to sending Steve's proposed text to PSIG for comments
15:18:22 <timeless> ... i'd like to send the text I proposed to PSIG as "what we have at the moment", to get comments on
15:18:55 <chaals> [I have not completed either of my action items. Assuming my computer lasts the week - which is not an assumption I would rely on - I will aim to complete them by tomorrow night]
15:19:34 <timeless> SteveZ: we can wait another week and discuss it next week
15:19:48 <timeless> jeff: i don't object to a chair's decision to wait another week
15:20:04 <timeless> ... PSIG analyzes very deliberately, i want to get this in Process-2015
15:20:18 <timeless> ... personal preference, is that we send SteveZ 's proposed text to PSIG for comments
15:20:24 <timeless> ... we'll run out of time
15:20:30 <timeless> ... PSIG review, AC review, ...
15:20:39 <timeless> SteveZ: i was worried about that
15:20:44 <timeless> ... my thinking is the same as yours
15:20:56 <timeless> ... one week was reasonable
15:20:58 <timeless> jeff: it was
15:21:03 <timeless> SteveZ: i will send my text to PSIG
15:21:14 <timeless> ... if chaals is on PSIG, he can raise issues w/ it there
15:21:17 <timeless> topic: Issue-129 Remove Coordination Groups
15:21:31 <timeless> s/topic: Issue-129 Remove Coordination Groups//
15:21:42 <timeless> michael: I agree, moving forward, let it get word-smithed in PSIG
15:21:43 <timeless> topic: Issue-129 Remove Coordination Groups
15:21:51 <timeless> SteveZ: jeff, you said Team had some concerns about this
15:21:57 <timeless> jeff: yes, i discussed this w/ the Team
15:22:08 <timeless> ... i'd say many in the Team were supportive of removing Coord-Groups
15:22:18 <timeless> ... one person in the Team (Judy) strongly objected
15:22:26 <timeless> ... and her objection had substance
15:22:35 <timeless> ... that her Coord-Group is extremely useful
15:22:47 <timeless> ... my personal opinion is they aren't creating harm,
15:22:50 <timeless> ... they're very useful
15:23:00 <timeless> ... i'd suggest people advocating removing them work w/ Judy
15:23:06 <timeless> ... to identify something that works for WAI
15:23:11 <timeless> ... address her concerns
15:23:22 <timeless> ... and once that's successful, bring it back to Process
15:23:32 <timeless> michael: which group is this?
15:23:58 <timeless> jeff: i can get the details
15:24:12 <timeless> michael: the argument isn't to take away things that are useful
15:24:12 <chaals> [wai-cg]
15:24:25 <timeless> ... it's to unburden the Process document
15:24:36 <timeless> ... the argument is for simplifying the process document
15:25:06 <timeless> s|[wai-cg]|-> http://www.w3.org/WAI/CG/ WAI Coord-Group|
15:25:18 <timeless> michael: as a way of getting wide review of documents
15:25:31 <timeless> jeff: in her perspective, there's a lot of cross-review of documents that take place in this group
15:25:41 <timeless> ... perhaps to your point, it doesn't have to be part of the process
15:25:48 <timeless> ... we had a 15 min discussion at W3M
15:25:54 <timeless> ... people weren't able to convince Judy of that
15:26:08 <jeff> [many people talking at once]
15:26:09 <timeless> timeless: could they change to be a Community Group?
15:26:17 <timeless> SteveZ: chaals in his proposal said
15:26:38 <timeless> ... there's nothing preventing Charters from requiring people from participating in Ad-hoc groups
15:26:45 <timeless> ... the goal was to try to stop the requirement to create them
15:26:53 <timeless> ... where a number of groups felt they weren't useful
15:26:59 <timeless> jeff: i don't recall the exact proposal
15:27:20 <timeless> ... if we stopped the requirement to create them
15:27:28 <timeless> ... but continue having Coord-Groups in the process
15:27:40 <timeless> ... it's possible that Judy would satisfied with that
15:27:45 <timeless> ... that's a worthy task to explore
15:27:57 <timeless> ... i'm guessing she might not be comfortable w/ it as a Community-Group
15:28:03 <timeless> ... in speaking to the General Public
15:28:16 <timeless> ... folks in the Accessibility Community feel the need to work in Member space
15:28:25 <timeless> ... that could be a problem w/ doing it as a Community Group
15:28:34 <timeless> SteveZ: it could be an IG or a WG w/o Deliverables
15:28:50 <timeless> ... I think an Interest Group would be the most relevant
15:28:55 <timeless> ... and that can be in Member space
15:28:58 <timeless> michael: I agree
15:29:03 <timeless> ... not to taking the tool away
15:29:10 <timeless> ... but to simplify the process
15:29:18 <timeless> jeff: I don't mind taking that proposal to Judy
15:29:24 <timeless> michael: doesn't Security have an IG
15:29:31 <timeless> jeff: there is a Security
15:29:39 <timeless> ... i can take an Action to bring it back to Judy
15:29:59 <timeless> SteveZ: please take the action given that chaals isn't on the phone call
15:30:07 <timeless> ... and you're likely to see Judy before he is
15:30:18 <timeless> ... to point out, we aren't interested in banning useful Groups
15:30:31 <timeless> ... but, a Member only IG should be able to serve the same purpose as a Coord-Group
15:30:42 <timeless> ... I could understand her wanting membership to be just Chairs
15:30:58 <timeless> ... I'll look to see if there's a simplification of Coord-Group based solely on Membership
15:31:08 <timeless> ... that might make it possible to keep around in a simpler form
15:31:18 <timeless> jeff: fine with me
15:33:01 <SteveZ> ACTION: jeff to talk to Judy about using an existing group type, for example, member-only IG, to coordinate WAI activity
15:33:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-39 - Talk to judy about using an existing group type, for example, member-only ig, to coordinate wai activity [on Jeff Jaffe - due 2014-11-18].
15:33:39 <SteveZ> ACTION: SteveZ to look at simplifying Coordination Groups to meet Judy's needs
15:33:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-40 - Look at simplifying coordination groups to meet judy's needs [on Steve Zilles - due 2014-11-18].
15:33:58 <timeless> topic: Issue-144: Chairs are asking for clarification for Wide Review
15:34:01 <chaalsGrr> chaalsGrr has joined #w3process
15:34:17 <timeless> SteveZ: this one, there were two comments in the Breakout session at TPAC
15:34:19 <chaals> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:34:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html chaals
15:34:46 <timeless> ... one from Nigel was, he would like a statement about the Intent for Wide-Review
15:34:52 <timeless> ... the Intent statement has two components
15:34:57 <timeless> ... "To Encourage Early Review"
15:35:15 <timeless> ... "To Encourage that things are Actually Reviewed, and not just announced"
15:35:22 <timeless> ... i'm willing to draft that kind of a statement
15:35:36 <timeless> ... if people are willing to accept that kind of statement back into the process document
15:35:37 <jeff> q+
15:35:42 <timeless> ack jeff
15:35:52 <timeless> jeff: I certainly would be interested in seeing a draft statement for review
15:36:02 <timeless> ... i totally get what Nigel is looking for
15:36:12 <timeless> ... we're creating this new ML for documents to go out
15:36:16 <timeless> ... i hear rumblings about
15:36:29 <timeless> ... "<g>", if we put our stuff on the ML, then we've achieved wide-review
15:36:36 <timeless> ... in general, the Team has concern
15:36:43 <timeless> ... when the Director is looking for Wide-Review
15:36:50 <timeless> ... he isn't looking for "I sent it out"
15:36:58 <timeless> ... he's looking for actual evidence of wide-review
15:37:06 <timeless> ... the text is there, but it's unclear,
15:37:18 <timeless> ... having text could help, i'd be interested in seeing such a statement
15:37:39 <timeless> SteveZ: timeless, do you remember anything else people were asking about
15:37:47 <timeless> ... and I know there was a similar one for Implementation
15:38:13 <timeless> http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-widereview-minutes.html
15:38:39 <timeless> timeless: there was a note about Liaisons
15:38:45 <timeless> SteveZ: we have a Liaison page
15:38:53 <timeless> ... we should add that to the things that the Director is considering
15:38:57 <timeless> ... whether they were contacted
15:40:12 <SteveZ> ACTION: SteveZ to propose text for the intent of the Wide Review section and to add Liaisons to list of Director considerations
15:40:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-41 - Propose text for the intent of the wide review section and to add liaisons to list of director considerations [on Steve Zilles - due 2014-11-18].
15:40:19 <timeless> topic: Issue-140: The description of the Team in Section 2.2 of the process document is out of date
15:40:36 <timeless> SteveZ: i went through the minutes of last week on Team description
15:40:43 <timeless> ... i was unclear about what our resolution was
15:41:15 <timeless> ... it's possible, but i didn't see an action on chaals to draft text for that section
15:43:12 <timeless> jeff: what's the conclusion, do we give chaals an action?
15:43:27 <timeless> michael: does anyone besides chaals want to champion this?
15:43:30 <jeff> +1 to Mike.
15:43:41 <timeless> SteveZ: there are pieces of it that would be good
15:43:57 <timeless> ... chaals sort of proposed text that listed roles/identified that they belonged to team
15:44:10 <timeless> ... i did a check, and with one exception, all of the director's roles are listed in the document
15:44:22 <jeff> q+
15:44:30 <timeless> ... i'll contact chaals so that by our next meeting, we'll have a clear answer on what's going to happen
15:44:40 <timeless> michael: i don't object to this, i don't want to spend a lot of time on it
15:44:45 <timeless> SteveZ: team section is simpler
15:44:53 <timeless> ... roles will be in document body, not team section
15:45:00 <timeless> ... some simple description of w3 will appear
15:45:11 <timeless> ... i think chaals said he was comfortable w/ it being in the team section
15:45:12 <timeless> ack jeff
15:45:18 <timeless> jeff: i think that's the last outstanding issue
15:45:27 <timeless> ... having director description in one place
15:45:42 <timeless> ... the only thing i think we were bouncing around on was Hosting agreements in / out
15:45:49 <timeless> ... if chaals is agreeable,
15:46:00 <timeless> michael: is that somewhere that the process document can point to?
15:46:06 <timeless> jeff: it's in the Process document
15:46:20 <timeless> SteveZ: i think he was going to come up w/ language that would simpler
15:46:28 <timeless> michael: chaals seems to have more work than he can do
15:46:32 <timeless> ... this doesn't seem as important
15:46:38 <timeless> ... [as other work]
15:47:20 <timeless> timeless: if we gain a 5th host or lose a 4th host
15:47:27 <timeless> ... i don't want to have to revise the process document to handle that
15:47:32 <timeless> ... i'd rather we point to something
15:47:38 <timeless> ... even if that means someone has to make such a place
15:47:44 <timeless> SteveZ: i'll talk to Ian about it
15:48:00 <timeless> jeff: changing the Process document to add a Host
15:48:10 <timeless> ... was only a problem when we didn't change the document in 8 years
15:48:19 <timeless> ... we're on track to update the process document annually
15:48:27 <timeless> ... and we've only added a host once in 15 years
15:48:32 <timeless> SteveZ: i can see text that says
15:48:51 <timeless> ... "the organization is established by contracts among the hosts, as of the date of this document, they are ..."
15:49:05 <timeless> topic: Issue-138: Does the process assume ‘an’ editor, or is group-editing formally ok?
15:49:24 <timeless> SteveZ: this came up in an email discussion
15:49:36 <timeless> ... i had my doubts about this particular one
15:49:40 <timeless> ... there are some groups
15:49:43 <timeless> ... tantek is in those
15:49:49 <timeless> ... they don't exactly designate an editor
15:49:58 <timeless> ... there seem to be informal designation of lead people who can edit
15:50:06 <timeless> ... but the ED is open to changes by anyone
15:50:15 <timeless> ... so that we save the bottleneck of having to go to someone to get an issue in
15:50:20 <timeless> ... it means that w/ change-tracking these days
15:50:36 <timeless> ... the lead person modifying the document would typically catch changes
15:50:42 <timeless> ... see them, react to them, that way
15:50:46 <timeless> q+
15:50:57 <timeless> ... this works as long as the group is disciplined about how they edit things in
15:51:05 <timeless> ... and the leads are on top of things to fix things that need to be fixed
15:51:07 <timeless> ... whatever that means
15:51:18 <timeless> ... i think the process currently says that "the group selects an editor"
15:51:30 <timeless> ... but i don't think there's anything in the process that prevents other people from actually editing the document
15:51:48 <timeless> michael: maybe we could take an action item to look for specific text in the Process document
15:51:55 <timeless> ... i agree there shouldn't be a mandate to have a single editor
15:52:05 <timeless> SteveZ: i think the only thing that's there is that the WG is responsible for choosing the editor
15:52:12 <timeless> michael: make that plural, and ....
15:52:18 <timeless> SteveZ: i think it may be plural as it stands
15:52:47 <timeless> ack me
15:53:03 <jeff> q+
15:53:17 <timeless> SteveZ: there was a complaint from one of the editors [at TPAC] that the WG was making Decisions without understanding why the text they were editing was there
15:53:19 <timeless> ack jeff
15:53:25 <timeless> jeff: i'm not sure that the statement is true
15:53:32 <timeless> ... the document is "Copyright W3C"
15:53:41 <timeless> ... i guess that no one has the right to modify it without permission
15:53:53 <chaals> chaals has joined #w3process
15:53:55 <timeless> ... so there's a question of who we give permission to modify the document
15:54:01 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:54:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:54:16 <SteveZ> from 7.2.1 Every Technical Report published as part of the Technical Report development process is edited by one or more editors appointed by a Group Chair. It is the responsibility of these editors to ensure that the decisions of the Group are correctly reflected in subsequent drafts of the technical report. An editor must be a participant, as a Member representative, Team representative, or Invited Expert in the Group responsible for the document(s) th[CUT]
15:54:51 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:54:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:54:56 <timeless> RRSAgent, pointer
15:54:56 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-irc#T15-54-56
15:56:01 <timeless> SteveZ: the key thing is the chair (can be plural)
15:56:06 <timeless> ... appoints 1 or more...
15:56:21 <timeless> jeff: i'm not saying there can't be
15:56:30 <timeless> ... it just isn't automatic w/o permission of the Chair
15:56:32 <Zakim> -Mike_Champion
15:56:42 <chaals> [right. As I proposed a while ago, the whole group can be editors if the chair appoints them]
15:57:12 <timeless> SteveZ: i'm not sure we need to do anything for this case
15:57:30 <jeff> q+ to talk about how wobbly the "whole group" is
15:57:50 <timeless> timeless: is it sufficient to have an issue asking this
15:58:02 <SteveZ> 7.2.1 http://www.w3.org/2014/Process-20140801/#general-requirements
15:58:03 <timeless> ... and we resolve saying that no change is needed because this is already possible
15:58:10 <timeless> ... and then we just point to the resolved issue when people ask?
15:58:17 <timeless> Zakim, who is on the call?
15:58:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see timeless, Jeff, SteveZ
15:58:49 <timeless> jeff: it wasn't clear to me what the question was
15:58:57 <timeless> ... "is it permitted to have group editing"
15:59:07 <timeless> ... or "should we open it up so that anyone can be the editor [by default]?"
15:59:22 <timeless> SteveZ: i wouldn't agree with it either. if the group decides and the chair agrees, that would be fine
15:59:37 <timeless> ... this paragraph is the only place that defines restrictions on editors
15:59:41 <timeless> jeff: it seems to me
15:59:50 <timeless> ... you want to close this item
15:59:57 <timeless> ... by saying "no, we don't want it to be editor free"
16:00:03 <chaals> [the question was "can everyone in the group be an editor of some deliverable of the group?". The answer is "yes"]
16:00:15 <timeless> ... "it's whatever the Chair decides, one, two, or infinite"
16:00:53 <timeless> SteveZ: the current definition of the role of editor
16:00:57 <jeff> [actual the question was "Does the process require an editor or have other roadblocks]
16:01:02 <timeless> ... allows a group to decide that all group members are editors
16:01:16 <timeless> ... and therefore the desired outcome is possible within the current process
16:01:21 <timeless> ... so no change is necessary
16:01:33 <jeff> [Our consensus seems to be, Yes, we desire to have a chair (or several or all) decided by the Chair]
16:01:35 <timeless> s/infinite/only bounded by the size of the group/
16:01:43 <timeless> timeless: +1
16:02:14 <timeless> jeff: if we wanted to have anyone
16:02:24 <timeless> ... it's unfair to say anyone in a CG can be an editor of a document
16:02:33 <timeless> ... we're part of a large group where only a few turn up for calls
16:02:40 <timeless> SteveZ: in the sense that Tantek meant, it would probably be ok
16:02:49 <timeless> ... the idea being to only put ISSUES into the document
16:02:56 <timeless> ... in general, they wouldn't be changing the text
16:03:03 <timeless> ... the goal is to deal w/ copyright
16:03:12 <timeless> ... you only do this when a Group is working
16:03:24 <timeless> ... that's why i think the decision of the Chair is important in this case
16:03:27 <jeff> +1
16:03:29 <timeless> ... you don't want to leave it as teh default behavior
16:03:33 <timeless> s/teh/the/
16:03:47 <jeff> timeless++
16:03:49 <timeless> ... I want to thank you, and the minute taker [ timeless ], for all of this discussion
16:03:59 <timeless> ... i came out with several actions, i'll review the minutes and do
16:04:23 <timeless> ... i'd like to resolve that i'll put a pending review answer to the last topic (everyone can be editors)
16:04:25 <jeff> +1 to Steve putting a Pending Review
16:04:35 <jeff> thanks , steve
16:04:38 <timeless> [ Adjourned ]
16:04:46 <timeless> trackbot, end meeting
16:04:46 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:04:46 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.416.440.aaaa, Jeff, timeless, SteveZ, Mike_Champion
16:04:49 <Zakim> -timeless
16:04:51 <Zakim> -Jeff
16:04:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:04:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html trackbot
16:04:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:04:55 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-actions.rdf :
16:04:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeff to talk to Judy about using an existing group type, for example, member-only IG, to coordinate WAI activity [1]
16:04:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-irc#T15-33-01
16:04:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SteveZ to look at simplifying Coordination Groups to meet Judy's needs [2]
16:04:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-irc#T15-33-39
16:04:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SteveZ to propose text for the intent of the Wide Review section and to add Liaisons to list of Director considerations [3]
16:04:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-irc#T15-40-12
16:04:57 <Zakim> -SteveZ
16:04:57 <Zakim> AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM has ended
16:04:57 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.416.440.aaaa, Jeff, timeless, SteveZ, Mike_Champion
16:05:04 <timeless> s/+1.416.440.aaaa, //
16:05:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #w3process
16:05:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-irc
16:05:45 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:05:49 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:05:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:05:57 <timeless> s/+1.416.440.aaaa, //
16:05:59 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:06:02 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:06:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:06:09 <timeless> RRSAgent, bye
16:06:09 <RRSAgent> I see no action items