IRC log of w3process on 2014-09-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:11:56 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #w3process

14:11:56 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-irc

14:12:12 [chaals]

close action-33

14:12:12 [trackbot]

Closed action-33.

14:12:14 [timeless]

Zakim, start meeting

14:12:14 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'start meeting', timeless

14:12:20 [timeless]

trackbot, start meeting

14:12:22 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:12:24 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be

14:12:24 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:12:25 [trackbot]

Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference

14:12:25 [trackbot]

Date: 30 September 2014

14:12:52 [timeless]

action-33

14:12:52 [trackbot]

action-33 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Propose text to update 6.2.6 to deal with issue 121 -- due 2014-09-02 -- CLOSED

14:12:52 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/actions/33

14:13:10 [timeless]

Zakim, who is on the call?

14:13:10 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Jay, SteveZ, timeless (muted), Jeff, glazou, chaals

14:13:10 [jeff_]

[sounds GTM]

14:13:17 [timeless]

scribe: timeless

14:13:52 [chaals]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Sep/0120.html thread for ISSUE-115

14:14:52 [Zakim]

-SteveZ

14:15:17 [SteveZ]

and I sent: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Sep/0170.html

14:15:29 [chaals]

Scribe: chaals

14:15:39 [chaals]

Topic: ISSUE 115

14:15:45 [SteveZ]

phone dropped

14:16:12 [timeless]

s/scribe: timeless//

14:16:13 [Zakim]

+SteveZ

14:16:35 [chaals]

CMN: The apparent resolution was to change "W3C should inform the AC about the status of Activities" to "…of activities (including Working and Interest Groups)"

14:17:12 [chaals]

SteveZ: Dave Singer suggested what chaals just repeated

14:17:21 [chaals]

s/including/including but not limited to/

14:17:41 [SteveZ]

Resolved: "activity (including but not limited to the work of groups)"

14:18:04 [chaals]

RESOLUTION: close ISSUE-115 by changing "Activity" to "activity (including but not limited to the work of groups)" in 2.1.3.2

14:18:08 [chaals]

Topic: ISSUE-121

14:18:44 [jeff_]

issue-121?

14:18:44 [trackbot]

issue-121 -- Intellectual property information.in charters -- pending review

14:18:44 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/121

14:19:03 [chaals]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Sep/0121.html proposal for the issue

14:19:55 [jeff_]

q+

14:20:36 [chaals]

CMN: Proposal is to move the bullet requiring W3C inform the AC about the IPR around an area of work, e.g. if they have reason to believe it will be hard to get RF commitments

14:20:47 [jeff_]

aack je

14:20:50 [jeff_]

ack je

14:20:53 [chaals]

JJ: Wasn't there a concern expressed that this makes the Team do more work.

14:20:58 [timeless]

s/aack je//

14:21:22 [chaals]

CMN: THe concern was whether this would oblige the Team to share information given in confidence, and my understanding is the answer is *NO*.

14:22:21 [chaals]

SZ: MikeC did express the concern Jeff said. You pointed out that there is a requirement to do this already.

14:23:33 [jeff_]

q+

14:24:07 [chaals]

SZ: [scribe missed]

14:25:01 [chaals]

JJ: Idea is to make changes that get consensus. Rather than waiting for an objection I would prefer the chair to take an action to determine if there is likely to be an outstanding objection.

14:25:21 [chaals]

SZ: Propose to send something to AC forum saying we resolved this as proposed - does anyone have a problem

14:25:22 [chaals]

q+

14:25:43 [jeff_]

q-

14:25:43 [chaals]

s/[scribe missed]/propose to resolve as chaals proposes

14:25:49 [jeff_]

ack chaa

14:26:20 [Zakim]

+Mike_Champion

14:27:05 [chaals]

CMN: We have now dealt with all of Activiites. I will propose that we send a new draft to the AC as an interim draft, for their review of removing Activities.

14:27:24 [jeff_]

q+

14:27:32 [chaals]

RESOLUTION: close ISSUE-121 by moving the bullet as proposed by chaals

14:27:41 [chaals]

Topic: draft for AC review?

14:27:56 [chaals]

Steve: Plan is to produce a draft for AC review.

14:28:05 [jeff_]

ack je

14:28:05 [chaals]

MikeC: sounds good

14:28:17 [chaals]

JJ: Suggest you copy w3process

14:28:21 [chaals]

SZ: and chairs

14:28:36 [chaals]

s/w3process/w3process with your review draft

14:28:50 [chaals]

Topic: ISSUE-124 blacklist WHATWG?

14:28:59 [chaals]

SZ: This is irrelevant to process

14:29:05 [chaals]

MC: And a bad idea?

14:29:06 [Jay]

suddenly the phone system down, I will reconnect by other method.

14:29:08 [chaals]

q+

14:29:23 [chaals]

MC: Haven't heard any support for this proposal

14:29:42 [chaals]

SZ: Don't want to reopen the discussion

14:30:05 [chaals]

RESOLUTION: closed as not applicable to the Process

14:30:07 [chaals]

ack me

14:30:42 [chaals]

CMN: Already asked for support. Shouldbe closed as "nobody thinks it is a good idea"

14:30:57 [chaals]

s/the Process/the Process, and nobody thinks it is a good idea/

14:31:29 [chaals]

Topic: ISSUE-34 - Good Standing

14:31:37 [chaals]

SZ: SUggestion is that we remove good standing.

14:32:13 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:32:23 [chaals]

CMN: You were the last person saying "I am not suggesting we remove it", so if you have shifted position I think we have a consensus.

14:32:57 [SteveZ]

RESOLUTION: Remove Good Standing from the Process

14:33:01 [chaals]

SZ: And we have an exchange showing that we have flexibility for a charter to use provisions like this if people decide it is necessary

14:33:09 [chaals]

zakim, [ip is Jay

14:33:09 [Zakim]

+Jay; got it

14:33:14 [chaals]

Topic: ISSUE-64

14:33:25 [chaals]

SZ: This should be closed as "completed"

14:33:28 [chaals]

issue-64?

14:33:28 [trackbot]

issue-64 -- Chapter 7: add a link to an errata page -- pending review

14:33:28 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/64

14:33:37 [SteveZ]

Topic: Issue-64

14:34:04 [chaals]

CMN: This is done. There are links to the tracker, and editor's drafts.

14:34:22 [chaals]

RESOLUTION: close issue-64

14:34:26 [chaals]

close issue-64

14:34:26 [trackbot]

Closed issue-64.

14:36:00 [chaals]

Topic: ISSUE-97

14:36:04 [chaals]

issue-97

14:36:04 [trackbot]

issue-97 -- Is using the term "Board" in "Advisory Board" really accurate and representative? -- raised

14:36:04 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/97

14:36:09 [chaals]

q+

14:36:14 [glazou]

q+

14:36:34 [chaals]

SZ: Believe chaals suggested this is a rathole, and there is no benefit from "fixing" it

14:36:36 [chaals]

q- later

14:36:41 [chaals]

ack gl

14:36:44 [jeff_]

q+

14:37:44 [chaals]

DG: I disagree that it is not worth the cost. People want to be on the Board because they believe it is a board with some power - and they use being there for their own career advancement.

14:37:59 [chaals]

… unfortunate that it is named board, although it is difficult to change.

14:38:06 [chaals]

MC: Do you have an alternate suggestion?

14:38:45 [chaals]

DG: The AB should be called the Advisory Committee, the AC should be called the membership. It is difficult to change now unfortunately. I dream it could be done in the future.

14:38:50 [chaals]

q?

14:39:11 [chaals]

… having the word "Board" is misleading, not doing things right.

14:39:50 [Jay]

q+

14:40:11 [chaals]

CMN: I agree with Daniel that there are some unfortunate consequences of having used the term Board, although I don't think the overall cost is actually that high. ANd I think changing the names is not a high-priority activity but would be high cost.

14:40:17 [chaals]

ack je

14:40:21 [chaals]

ack cha

14:40:30 [glazou]

q+

14:40:31 [SteveZ_]

SteveZ_ has joined #w3process

14:41:05 [chaals]

JJ: For Process2015 the objective is to make the changes that don't imply a lot of debate, so we can get there quickly. I propose we postpone this issue, to at least process2016

14:41:17 [chaals]

ack jay

14:42:20 [chaals]

Jay: Understand the feeling of Daniel. But agree that it is not something we should change now.

14:42:26 [chaals]

zakim, who is making noise?

14:42:29 [Zakim]

-Jay

14:42:37 [Zakim]

chaals, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (85%), SteveZ (58%), Jay.a (62%)

14:42:43 [chaals]

ack gl

14:43:09 [chaals]

DG: Good standing took 15 years to remove. We are labeled as slow and incapable of doing things fast. This is a minor issue, changing a word.

14:43:49 [chaals]

… agree it is not easy to do because there is a cost in terms of implementation, but that there could be resistance from the people. I don't objection to any possible decision, but don't understand why this is not a high priority.

14:43:51 [chaals]

q+

14:44:20 [chaals]

… perception is everything. If people perceive that teh Advisory Board is a board we have a perception problem. But think it is a priority and low cost.

14:44:35 [jeff_]

ack cha

14:45:44 [chaals]

CMN: The cost is in bikeshedding, and in people remembering what the new things are called...

14:45:51 [chaals]

DG: *cough*

14:46:11 [chaals]

CMN: I suggest we keep it open, and can discuss on email, but don't think we should try to solve it in a meeting.

14:46:16 [SteveZ_]

CMN this will lead to a bikeshedding discussion which will take a long time and the cost in terms of changes to the collection of W3C document may be large

14:46:30 [chaals]

RESOLUTION: ISSUE-97 remains open, expected to be resolved for Process2016

14:46:54 [SteveZ_]

RESOLUTION: Keep Issue-97 Open but discuss it in the Process2016 discusion

14:47:27 [chaals]

s/to the collection of W3C document/in people's heads trying to track the changes/

14:47:31 [chaals]

Topic: Now?

14:47:44 [chaals]

SZ: When do you expect a draft for AC review?

14:47:48 [chaals]

CMN: today

14:49:06 [chaals]

CMN: Should I include the removal of Good Standing in the draft for review?

14:50:40 [Zakim]

-SteveZ

14:50:51 [chaals]

CMN: Don't think we should be concerned at exactly matching the process used for Rec-Track

14:51:17 [Zakim]

+SteveZ

14:51:42 [chaals]

CMN: Are there any objections to me publishing the draft for wider review?

14:51:59 [chaals]

RESOLUTION: Chaals to publish the draft for wider review.

14:52:16 [chaals]

SZ: Does anyone object to removing good standing for that draft.

14:52:43 [chaals]

DG: support doing so.

14:52:56 [SteveZ_]

RESOLUTION: Publish a Draft of Process2015 that has both Activities and Good Standing reomoved.

14:53:42 [chaals]

q+

14:54:16 [jeff_]

q+

14:54:39 [SteveZ_]

ack ch

14:54:47 [SteveZ_]

ack j

14:54:54 [chaals]

CMN: Would like to open the issue of removing coordination groups.

14:55:13 [chaals]

JJ: WOuld like to circulate this idea around the team, before we try to reach resolution.

14:55:27 [chaals]

SZ: Chaals can you send a message propsing to open that issue?

14:55:40 [glazou]

+1 on chaals’ suggestion

14:56:02 [SteveZ_]

RSSAgent, make minutes

14:56:11 [timeless]

s/WOuld/Would/

14:56:22 [SteveZ_]

RRSAGENT, make minutes

14:56:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html SteveZ_

14:56:22 [timeless]

s/propsing/proposing/

14:56:34 [timeless]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:56:42 [timeless]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:56:42 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html timeless

14:56:43 [chaals]

Action: chaals to open issue on removing coordination groups

14:56:43 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-34 - Open issue on removing coordination groups [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-10-07].

14:56:48 [timeless]

chair: SteveZ

14:57:07 [Zakim]

-Mike_Champion

14:57:09 [timeless]

s/trackbot, start meeting//

14:57:13 [Zakim]

-glazou

14:57:18 [Zakim]

-chaals

14:57:19 [Zakim]

-Jeff

14:57:21 [Jay]

TQ

14:57:21 [chaals]

[Adjourned]

14:57:23 [Zakim]

-SteveZ

14:57:35 [Zakim]

-Jay.a

14:58:08 [Zakim]

-timeless

14:58:09 [Zakim]

AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM has ended

14:58:11 [Zakim]

Attendees were glazou, Jay, SteveZ, timeless, Jeff, +33.1.34.51.aaaa, [IPcaller], chaals, Mike_Champion

14:58:19 [timeless]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:58:19 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html timeless

14:58:52 [timeless]

s/+33.1.34.51.aaaa, [IPcaller], //

14:58:54 [timeless]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:58:54 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html timeless

15:02:00 [timeless]

trackbot, end meeting

15:02:00 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

15:02:00 [Zakim]

sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is

15:02:08 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

15:02:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html trackbot

15:02:09 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

15:02:09 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-actions.rdf :

15:02:09 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: chaals to open issue on removing coordination groups [1]

15:02:09 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-irc#T14-56-43