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14:00:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:00:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y-media
14:00:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:00:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:00:23 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:00:23 <trackbot> Date: 29 September 2014
14:00:43 <janina> trackbot, who's on the phone?
14:00:43 <trackbot> Sorry, janina, I don't understand 'trackbot, who's on the phone?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
14:00:53 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:00:53 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()10:00AM has not yet started, janina
14:00:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, MarkS, trackbot
14:01:17 <halindrome> halindrome has joined #html-a11y-media
14:01:20 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_HTML
14:01:21 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_HTML AT()10:00AM already started
14:01:29 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:01:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1
14:01:35 <janina> zakim, ??P1 is me
14:01:35 <Zakim> +janina; got it
14:02:14 <janina> Chair: Janina Sajka
14:02:14 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe
14:02:14 <janina> agenda+ Media Accessibility User Requirements Comments [3][4]
14:02:35 <janina> agenda+ be done
14:02:41 <janina> agenda?
14:03:03 <Zakim> +ShaneM
14:03:41 <Zakim> +JF
14:04:08 <ShaneM> ScribeNick: ShaneM
14:04:21 <Zakim> +MarkS
14:05:01 <ShaneM> zakim, take up item 2
14:05:01 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Media Accessibility User Requirements Comments" taken up [from 3][4 via janina]
14:05:11 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y-media
14:05:26 <janina> [3] [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Sep/0045.html
14:05:29 <janina> [4] [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Sep/0046.html
14:06:23 <ShaneM> janina: the only thing between us and finalizing is addressing these two comments, any other comments that might come in soon, and the feedback from EO.
14:06:51 <ShaneM> ... EO indicates that they can't get to it until TPAC.  That's okay.  We just need to finalize this calendar year.
14:07:00 <ShaneM> ... we are only expecting comments from EO about section 2.
14:07:39 <ShaneM> ... The EO document and our document should be sync'd.  We have known about this all along.
14:09:13 <ShaneM> ... Should we tie the comments back to bugs?
14:09:25 <ShaneM> MarkS: Yes - it helps to connect repository checkins to specific issues.
14:10:06 <ShaneM> ... do we have a product in Bugzilla?
14:10:19 <ShaneM> janina: Yes, but I dont have the details.  I can get them in the next hour.
14:10:30 <ShaneM> MarkS: Okay - if you can get me that information then I can create the bugs.
14:10:49 <ShaneM> Topic: Bug from Bronwyn Lapham
14:11:32 <ShaneM> The question is were we talking about relocating the description in time or spatially?
14:12:14 <ShaneM> JF: Not in time.  And DV-6 talks about volume.  This is about moving the description around within the mix (for example moving it far into the 'right' of the sound).
14:12:54 <ShaneM> ... basically we are talking about 'zenith'.  You could have it 'whispered in one ear'.
14:13:36 <ShaneM> janina: we have certainly spent enough time in recording studios.  Regardless of how it is originally mixed, what we want to do is allow the user to relocate it to afford them the best clarity.
14:13:57 <ShaneM> ... if it is possible to locate it away from the 'main audio' that would be helpful.
14:14:28 <ShaneM> JF: I am not sure how an engineer would address this short of having independent volume control and location for the descriptive track.
14:14:45 <ShaneM> janina: we do say early on that we do not expect every tool to enable everything we discuss.
14:15:07 <ShaneM> ShaneM:  I didn'
14:15:16 <ShaneM> ... t read it this way.  Can we clarify.
14:15:32 <ShaneM> MarkS: Yes.  It doesn't hurt to have it in there, but it needs to be clear.
14:15:42 <ShaneM> JF: How do we provide that sort of explanantion?
14:15:54 <ShaneM> ... we have all of these requirements, but we have never really expanded on the intent.
14:16:31 <ShaneM> ... if you back to look at WCAG we have a requirement, the understanding, and the techniques.  This document does not currently expand on our requirements like that.
14:17:13 <MarkS> SM: When i read it, I actually didn't have any idea what it meant.  What does "in the audio field" mean in this context.  Now that I've heard the discussion today, I understand.
14:17:32 <MarkS> JS: I can take a stab at rewriting this.
14:18:00 <MarkS> SM: is it just spatially (virtually) or is it frequency as well (low/high pitch)
14:18:33 <MarkS> ...listening to rec of kindergartners and there is a low voice describing their actions, you may want to be able to switch the pitch of a particular track
14:19:03 <MarkS> JF: I don't think we've discussed that shane, so its an interesting facet to consider
14:19:24 <MarkS> JS: They are supposed to consider that when they choose a reader/describer
14:20:47 <ShaneM> ShaneM: For example it when there is a single reader of an audio book, it is difficult to understand when a character is speaking vs. when there is narration.
14:20:56 <ShaneM> janina: I am willing to take a crack at rewriting this.
14:21:23 <ShaneM> JF: We do have the 'green' notes that we use sometimes to add clarity.
14:21:38 <ShaneM> janina: should I add a mention of pitch-shifting?
14:21:59 <ShaneM> ShaneM: Don't add it on my account - I am not an expert on this topic.
14:22:22 <ShaneM> janina: this is aimed at tools that help people.  These are tool requirements, not production requirements.
14:23:04 <ShaneM> JF: It is really about requiring a mechanism for adjusting the descriptive track.  It includes volume and pan.
14:23:17 <ShaneM> ... any system that supports multi-track should be able to do this easily.
14:23:43 <ShaneM> ... I have not seen this delivered on the web other than in streaming video e.g. Netflix, or in 5.1 or 6.1 surround.
14:23:56 <ShaneM> janina: I think you can do this in software if you load the right libraries.
14:24:10 <ShaneM> ... pitch-shifting is a little harder, as it requires number crunching.
14:24:49 <ShaneM> JF: The only way this can be done is to maintain it as a separate track.  It can't be pre-mixed.
14:25:48 <ShaneM> ShaneM: But a client-side control could influence the mix from the server if the server had the tracks separated.
14:26:50 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Andrew Norman Comments
14:27:45 <ShaneM> JF: First comment - augment 2.5 to make it clear that people with cochlear implants don't have volume risk, but DO have a risk of overwhelming the brain.
14:28:01 <ShaneM> ... As this is an EO section, and they have thought about this, can we let them write this?
14:28:09 <ShaneM> janina: Yes, that seems like a good idea.
14:29:09 <ShaneM> The second is about people with motor skill challenges.
14:29:30 <ShaneM> JF: I agree that clickable objects need to be of a certain size.  This isn't just a media player issue.
14:29:41 <ShaneM> janina: I agree - it seems like a UAAG requirement.
14:30:13 <ShaneM> JF: and this isn't just about people with diseases.  People who are using sub-standard controls or have other physical impairments can have problems too.
14:30:21 <ShaneM> janina: I think it is out of scope for this document.
14:30:35 <ShaneM> JF: yes, but we do cover system requirements.   including access to system controls and menus
14:31:24 <ShaneM> janina: yes, but our list is media specific.  This is an over arching requirement (e.g., something from UAAG)
14:31:39 <ShaneM> JF: we have 5 requirements in this space (reads them)
14:32:35 <ShaneM> JF: maybe  we should add a new requirement about this?
14:32:42 <ShaneM> janina: or should be point to UAAG?
14:33:16 <ShaneM> JF: In our checklist we said we would reference other guidelines like UAAG.  But that doesn't mean we don't have a local related requirement.
14:33:41 <ShaneM> ... KA-1 is a requirement that maps back to WCAG 2.1.1 and UAAG 4.1.1 as
14:33:47 <ShaneM> ... 'A' requirements
14:34:38 <ShaneM> ... Adding a KA-6 - ensure that on-screen controls are of a sufficient size to be manipulated by people with substandard controls or physical impairments.
14:35:05 <ShaneM> janina: JF, want to take a stab at it and then run it by UAAG?
14:36:45 <ShaneM> JF: Wordsmith a new requirement KA-6. and then we can run it by UAAG.
14:37:08 <ShaneM> janina: substandard is a little loaded.  some other term that is a term of art and already used by UAAG.
14:37:56 <ShaneM> JF: Mr. Norman also suggests some text for specific requirements for control placement, timing, and volume control.
14:38:25 <ShaneM> ... I think we want to decouple it from the neurological because it should be way more than that.  But there is a good seed of a requirement here.
14:38:47 <ShaneM> write it up and then discuss it next Monday.
14:40:55 <ShaneM> zakim, next item
14:40:55 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
14:41:00 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Other business
14:41:16 <ShaneM> JF: We need to get back to the poster issue.
14:41:24 <ShaneM> janina: I thought we were going to handle that with ARIA.
14:41:32 <ShaneM> JF: It isn't in ARIA 1.1
14:41:51 <ShaneM> janina: No one will make a proposal if you don't, John.
14:42:57 <ShaneM> JF: The only thing we could do is aria-poster-description or something.  Let me talk to Rich and see what he thinks.
14:43:08 <ShaneM> ... it has never slipped from my brain, but it doesn't get look at very often.
14:43:38 <ShaneM> janina: on "transcript" we were going to have Cyns revive her proposal.
14:43:43 <ShaneM> JF: we had two proposals.
14:45:17 <JF> s/Cyns/Sylvia
14:45:44 <ShaneM> janina: we have waited a while for this to sort out, and we do need a formal solution.
14:46:00 <ShaneM> JF: the simple solution would be to add transcript as a type of 'kind'.
14:46:26 <ShaneM> ... anyway, those are the two other issues we need to return to.  Poster and Transcript.  We had talked about having an extension spec.
14:46:59 <ShaneM> janina: we were explicitly empowered to do a transcript extension in plan 2014
14:47:22 <ShaneM> q+ to talk about after 5
14:49:16 <ShaneM> ack s
14:49:16 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to talk about after 5
14:49:55 <MarkS> SM: While there are people who have said things like that, I think the context is that there is an extension, and I'm not going to use it.
14:50:10 <MarkS> ...we don't need them to.
14:50:24 <MarkS> ...I don't think we need to worry about this.
14:51:30 <ShaneM> janina: we can still do transcript as an extension if we find it important.
14:52:02 <ShaneM> ... we have a next step for poster - JF will talk to Rich.
14:52:32 <ShaneM> ... we do not have a next step for transcript yet.  other than possibly asking Sylvia if she wants to bring up her proposal again.
14:52:44 <ShaneM> JF: we need implementor support
14:53:29 <ShaneM> ... maybe have some conversations at the end of the month (at TPAC).  Grab some people and ask them from an Engineering perspective what we think about connecting transcripts to video.
14:54:22 <ShaneM> ... let's think about it and discuss it again next week.   Find out if Sylvia is coming to TPAC and if she has any interest in revising that old proposal.
14:55:21 <JF> [media]
14:55:40 <Zakim> -JF
14:55:42 <Zakim> -MarkS
14:55:44 <Zakim> -janina
14:55:47 <ShaneM> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-html-a11y-media-minutes.html ShaneM
14:56:06 <ShaneM> zakim, adjourn
14:56:06 <Zakim> I don't understand 'adjourn', ShaneM
14:56:29 <Zakim> -ShaneM
14:56:30 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()10:00AM has ended
14:56:30 <Zakim> Attendees were janina, ShaneM, JF, MarkS
14:56:52 <ShaneM> rrsagent, make minutes
14:56:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-html-a11y-media-minutes.html ShaneM