IRC log of aria on 2014-09-29
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:58:43 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria
- 16:58:43 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-irc
- 16:58:45 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs member
- 16:58:45 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #aria
- 16:58:47 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
- 16:58:47 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM already started
- 16:58:48 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
- 16:58:48 [trackbot]
- Date: 29 September 2014
- 16:58:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- chair: Rich
- 16:58:49 [Zakim]
- +Fred_Esch
- 16:58:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
- 16:59:07 [fesch]
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- 16:59:12 [jongund]
- jongund has joined #aria
- 16:59:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 16:59:52 [Zakim]
- -Fred_Esch
- 16:59:54 [Zakim]
- WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has ended
- 16:59:54 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Fred_Esch
- 17:00:23 [Zakim]
- WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has now started
- 17:00:27 [Zakim]
- +Fred_Esch
- 17:00:31 [Zakim]
- +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 17:00:57 [Zakim]
- +??P15
- 17:01:13 [janina]
- zakim, ??P15 is me
- 17:01:13 [Zakim]
- +janina; got it
- 17:01:39 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 17:02:34 [clown]
- clown has joined #aria
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- +Matt_King
- 17:02:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Sep/0104.html
- 17:03:02 [Zakim]
- +[GVoice]
- 17:03:11 [clown]
- zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:03:11 [Zakim]
- +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
- 17:03:18 [clown]
- zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:03:18 [Zakim]
- ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:03:44 [Zakim]
- +Joanmarie_Diggs
- 17:03:48 [Zakim]
- +James_Nurthen
- 17:03:56 [mattking]
- mattking has joined #aria
- 17:03:56 [joanie]
- Zakim, I am Joanmarie_Diggs
- 17:03:56 [Zakim]
- ok, joanie, I now associate you with Joanmarie_Diggs
- 17:04:16 [Zakim]
- +Jon_Gunderson
- 17:05:18 [clown]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Teleconference_cheat_sheet
- 17:06:29 [jcraig]
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- 17:06:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- scribe: fesch
- 17:06:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Topic: Action 1349
- 17:06:57 [Stefan]
- Stefan has joined #aria
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- scribe: fesch
- 17:07:07 [Zakim]
- +[Apple]
- 17:07:12 [jcraig]
- q+
- 17:07:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1349
- 17:07:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- ack jcraig
- 17:07:46 [Zakim]
- +[SAP]
- 17:08:40 [fesch]
- jcraig: has been missing, but still working on actions
- 17:09:05 [Zakim]
- -[Apple]
- 17:09:08 [MichaelC]
- zakim, SAP is Stefan_Schnabel
- 17:09:08 [Zakim]
- +Stefan_Schnabel; got it
- 17:09:22 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 17:11:07 [fesch]
- T: Topic tracking of user agent spec on aria1.1
- 17:11:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Topic: tracking of user agent spec on aria1.1
- 17:11:36 [fesch]
- ok
- 17:11:36 [clown]
- q+ to ask how defects are found — are there 1.1 test cases?
- 17:12:08 [fesch]
- MichaelC: Wants to wait until TPAC to get list... can make wiki of known defects
- 17:12:35 [fesch]
- rich: wants to open defects before TPAC
- 17:13:15 [clown]
- zakim, ack me
- 17:13:15 [Zakim]
- Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to ask how defects are found — are there 1.1 test cases?
- 17:13:17 [Zakim]
- I see no one on the speaker queue
- 17:13:27 [fesch]
- Joseph: clarifies - these are potential defects as there are no test cases
- 17:14:08 [fesch]
- MichaelC: Plan to continue using murcurial test harness
- 17:15:52 [clown]
- issue-623?
- 17:15:52 [trackbot]
- issue-623 -- Consider aria-inert for disambiguation of modal states (re: html|*@inert) -- open
- 17:15:52 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/623
- 17:16:36 [fesch]
- MichaelC: can close action, has feedback
- 17:16:37 [Zakim]
- -Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:16:51 [Zakim]
- +Bryan_Garaventa
- 17:17:02 [Zakim]
- +[GVoice]
- 17:17:10 [clown]
- zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:17:10 [Zakim]
- +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
- 17:17:18 [clown]
- zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:17:18 [Zakim]
- ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:17:39 [fesch]
- RESOLUTION: close action 1461
- 17:17:49 [bgaraventa1979]
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- zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
- 17:18:14 [Zakim]
- ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
- 17:18:53 [fesch]
- Open actions and issues:
- 17:19:50 [clown]
- action-1486?
- 17:19:50 [trackbot]
- action-1486 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Inspect webkit backwards-compatibility regarding aria-setsize="999+" format for issue-397 -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
- 17:19:50 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1486
- 17:20:36 [fesch]
- Joanie" is editing, needs changes in webkit, will break older browsers
- 17:20:42 [joanie]
- http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/accessibility/AccessibilityObject.cpp#L2035
- 17:20:43 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1486
- 17:20:54 [MichaelC]
- -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA_Implementation_Issues ARIA Implementation Issues
- 17:20:59 [fesch]
- s/e/m
- 17:21:56 [fesch]
- JoanM: needs to convert to an int from string
- 17:22:12 [joanie]
- s/JoanM/Joanie/
- 17:22:45 [clown]
- http://localhost/~clown/GitHub/aria/implementation/aria-implementation.html#ariaSetsize
- 17:23:01 [clown]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#ariaSetsize
- 17:24:57 [clown]
- issue-397?
- 17:24:57 [trackbot]
- issue-397 -- Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size -- open
- 17:24:57 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/397
- 17:26:08 [fesch]
- joanie: aria-setsize="999+" , not liking the plus
- 17:26:39 [Stefan]
- q+
- 17:27:38 [fesch]
- joseph: need a way to have indeterinate size
- 17:27:59 [Stefan]
- -q
- 17:28:21 [fesch]
- rich: could use negative number
- 17:29:09 [fesch]
- jm: information to provide there is at least x number of items
- 17:29:37 [fesch]
- matt: what is the value of that?
- 17:30:37 [fesch]
- rich: why redo the APIs?
- 17:31:08 [fesch]
- jm: need to use -1 instead
- 17:32:05 [fesch]
- RESOLUTION: use a -1 value means unknown setsize
- 17:32:33 [fesch]
- 1486: can be closed
- 17:32:52 [jcraig]
- unknown setsize is the default
- 17:32:56 [fesch]
- joanie: -1 is the conventional value
- 17:33:03 [Stefan]
- q+
- 17:34:23 [clown]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#aria-setsize
- 17:34:39 [jcraig]
- What about aria-setsizemin or aria-minsetsize instead? This is about sets that are *at least* as big as a known number, but known to be larger.
- 17:35:01 [Stefan]
- progressbar indeterminate
- 17:35:08 [Stefan]
- status -1?
- 17:35:09 [clown]
- q+ to point out jcraig's irc suggestion.
- 17:37:02 [Zakim]
- Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to point out jcraig's irc suggestion.
- 17:37:28 [Zakim]
- +Cynthia_Shelly
- 17:37:35 [fesch]
- rich: does not want to introduce another change to the platform unless it is necessary
- 17:38:55 [fesch]
- joseph: looking at mapping...
- 17:39:23 [Stefan]
- -q
- 17:39:37 [fesch]
- cynthia: thinks a negative number is better than converting to a string
- 17:39:46 [clown]
- http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html#a94d4d84e000ef2fa3f2abf1148779941
- 17:40:19 [clown]
- 1 based, 0 indicates that this value is not applicable
- 17:40:24 [Stefan]
- +q
- 17:42:00 [fesch]
- clown: group position is 1 based... all three values are 1 based no room for negative value
- 17:42:34 [fesch]
- rich: easier to change a value than introduce a new attribute
- 17:42:56 [fesch]
- rich: do people want to use -1 and get buy in?
- 17:43:13 [fesch]
- cyntihia: have buy in
- 17:43:28 [clown]
- AXARIASetSize: <value>
- 17:43:38 [Stefan]
- I just want to add that we have at least two different concepts for indeterminate, in progressbar role we OMIT aria-valuenow to express that is indeterminate
- 17:44:12 [fesch]
- rich: lets go with a value of -1 and see if this works for Alex?
- 17:44:31 [clown]
- s/for Alex/for Alex and IA2/
- 17:44:52 [fesch]
- Stephen: we have two different approaches to indeterminate
- 17:44:55 [Stefan]
- -q
- 17:46:04 [jamesn]
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- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:46:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-minutes.html jamesn
- 17:46:24 [fesch]
- Stephan: progress bar (omit) is indeterminate, now this would add a second form of indeterminate
- 17:47:38 [fesch]
- cynthia: better to have a explicit value, omit may be an author error
- 17:48:04 [fesch]
- rich: testing may fail with ommitting...
- 17:48:45 [fesch]
- cynthia: believes Alex and IA2 will accept -1
- 17:48:51 [joanie]
- fesch: that was me
- 17:49:29 [fesch]
- s/cyntia/joanie/
- 17:49:40 [clown]
- s/cynthia: believes Alex and IA2 will accept −1/joanie: believes Alex and IA2 will accept −1/
- 17:49:40 [clown]
- 17:50:01 [clown]
- http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html#a94d4d84e000ef2fa3f2abf1148779941
- 17:50:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- Action: Joanie Speak with Alex Surkov to get approval for aria-setsize taking a value of -1 to mean indeterminate. This will effect GroupPosition.
- 17:50:08 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1514 - Speak with alex surkov to get approval for aria-setsize taking a value of -1 to mean indeterminate. this will effect groupposition. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-10-06].
- 17:52:05 [clown]
- action-1423?
- 17:52:06 [trackbot]
- action-1423 -- Cynthia Shelly to Ask developers about group, none, and generic roles and whether it would be helpful for implementatation of e.g., narrator -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
- 17:52:06 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1423
- 17:52:40 [fesch]
- cynthia: needs two more weeks on action-1423
- 17:53:06 [clown]
- action-1423?
- 17:53:06 [trackbot]
- action-1423 -- Cynthia Shelly to Ask developers about group, none, and generic roles and whether it would be helpful for implementatation of e.g., narrator -- due 2014-10-13 -- OPEN
- 17:53:06 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1423
- 17:53:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1462
- 17:54:14 [fesch]
- cynthia: needs 2 more weeks on action 1462
- 17:54:41 [clown]
- action-1490
- 17:54:41 [trackbot]
- action-1490 -- James Nurthen to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2014-07-28 -- OPEN
- 17:54:41 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490
- 17:54:43 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490
- 17:54:52 [Zakim]
- -Cynthia_Shelly
- 17:54:54 [clown]
- issue-610
- 17:54:55 [trackbot]
- issue-610 -- Comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- open
- 17:54:55 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/610
- 17:55:27 [Zakim]
- +Cynthia_Shelly
- 17:55:55 [fesch]
- jamesn: needs another week
- 17:56:14 [clown]
- action-1505
- 17:56:14 [trackbot]
- action-1505 -- Matthew King to Create proposal for a role and strategy to address issue 633 -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
- 17:56:14 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1505
- 17:56:40 [clown]
- issue-633
- 17:56:40 [trackbot]
- issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- raised
- 17:56:40 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633
- 17:56:43 [fesch]
- matt: working on 1346
- 17:56:56 [fesch]
- matt: needs 2 more weeks
- 17:57:15 [fesch]
- matt: have duplicate actions
- 17:58:52 [clown]
- action-1346
- 17:58:52 [trackbot]
- action-1346 -- Matthew King to Propose edit to dialog role to clarify issue that leads to bad implementation -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
- 17:58:52 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1346
- 17:59:50 [mattking]
- A dialog is an application window that is designed to interrupt the current processing of an application in order to prompt the user to enter information
- 18:00:01 [clown]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#dialog
- 18:00:35 [Zakim]
- -Cynthia_Shelly
- 18:01:34 [clown]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#window
- 18:01:54 [fesch]
- matt: wanted to delete the word application to avoid confusion with role application
- 18:04:06 [fesch]
- rich: disambiguate application role from application usage in defintions
- 18:05:36 [fesch]
- matt: danger in using normative words with different use
- 18:06:22 [fesch]
- matt: should write a note for the window role
- 18:09:35 [Zakim]
- -Joanmarie_Diggs
- 18:09:40 [Zakim]
- + +1.603.493.aaaa
- 18:10:03 [MichaelC]
- zakim, aaaa is Joanmarie_Diggs
- 18:10:03 [Zakim]
- +Joanmarie_Diggs; got it
- 18:10:08 [fesch]
- rich: 2 options on table
- 18:10:33 [fesch]
- role = application, vendors get confused
- 18:10:53 [fesch]
- option: remove word application
- 18:11:14 [fesch]
- option: add note
- 18:11:53 [fesch]
- joanie: both OK
- 18:12:30 [fesch]
- matt: was concerned about normative uses of a word and the more generic use of the term
- 18:13:16 [fesch]
- rich: matt to come up with modification to dialog and window
- 18:14:11 [fesch]
- matt: will have something next week
- 18:15:16 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 18:15:22 [clown]
- action-1470?
- 18:15:22 [trackbot]
- action-1470 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Draft introductions for aria 1.1, core-aam 1.1, and svg-aam 1.1 -- due 2014-07-07 -- OPEN
- 18:15:22 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1470
- 18:16:05 [fesch]
- action-1493?
- 18:16:05 [trackbot]
- action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
- 18:16:05 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
- 18:16:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
- 18:16:47 [fesch]
- joseph: needs another week
- 18:17:10 [Zakim]
- -James_Nurthen
- 18:17:34 [clown]
- action-1442
- 18:17:34 [trackbot]
- action-1442 -- Léonie Watson to Create spec. text for aria-currentfor="IDREF" and aria-current="true/false", related to issue-587 -- due 2014-05-26 -- OPEN
- 18:17:34 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1442
- 18:18:37 [fesch]
- rich: Leonie has not been around for a while, can Bryan take it?
- 18:20:16 [fesch]
- rich: do we need true and false?
- 18:20:17 [clown]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Sep/0087.html
- 18:21:01 [Zakim]
- +Joanmarie_Diggs.a
- 18:21:04 [Zakim]
- -Joanmarie_Diggs
- 18:22:52 [fesch]
- brian: gave examples where aria-current may have useful true/false values
- 18:23:18 [fesch]
- matt: need language how current is different than selected
- 18:24:44 [fesch]
- rich: brian please go back to Leonie and get original use cases
- 18:25:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0115.html
- 18:29:08 [fesch]
- matt: Bryan's not requires aria context
- 18:30:30 [fesch]
- rich: Bryan please get back with Leonie to see which roles does this apply to - new date 13th!!!
- 18:31:01 [Zakim]
- -Jon_Gunderson
- 18:31:02 [Zakim]
- -Matt_King
- 18:31:03 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 18:31:05 [Zakim]
- -Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 18:31:05 [Zakim]
- -Bryan_Garaventa
- 18:31:06 [Zakim]
- -Joanmarie_Diggs.a
- 18:31:07 [Zakim]
- -janina
- 18:31:28 [fesch]
- Zakim , bye
- 18:31:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- zakim, bye
- 18:31:39 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina, Michael_Cooper, Matt_King, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, James_Nurthen, Jon_Gunderson,
- 18:31:39 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria
- 18:31:40 [fesch]
- Zakin, bye
- 18:31:43 [Zakim]
- ... [Apple], Stefan_Schnabel, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly, +1.603.493.aaaa
- 18:32:09 [fesch]
- RRSagent, make minutes
- 18:32:09 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-minutes.html fesch
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