16:58:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:58:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-irc
16:58:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
16:58:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
16:58:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:58:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM already started
16:58:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:58:48 <trackbot> Date: 29 September 2014
16:58:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
16:58:49 <Zakim> +Fred_Esch
16:58:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
16:59:07 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
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16:59:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
16:59:52 <Zakim> -Fred_Esch
16:59:54 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has ended
16:59:54 <Zakim> Attendees were Fred_Esch
17:00:23 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has now started
17:00:27 <Zakim> +Fred_Esch
17:00:31 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:00:57 <Zakim> +??P15
17:01:13 <janina> zakim, ??P15 is me
17:01:13 <Zakim> +janina; got it
17:01:39 <Zakim> +??P6
17:02:34 <clown> clown has joined #aria
17:02:49 <Zakim> +Matt_King
17:02:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Sep/0104.html
17:03:02 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:03:11 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:11 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:03:18 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:18 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:44 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:48 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
17:03:56 <mattking> mattking has joined #aria
17:03:56 <joanie> Zakim, I am Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:56 <Zakim> ok, joanie, I now associate you with Joanmarie_Diggs
17:04:16 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
17:05:18 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Teleconference_cheat_sheet
17:06:29 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #aria
17:06:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: fesch
17:06:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 1349
17:06:57 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:06:58 <fesch> scribe: fesch
17:07:07 <Zakim> +[Apple]
17:07:12 <jcraig> q+
17:07:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1349
17:07:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack jcraig
17:07:46 <Zakim> +[SAP]
17:08:40 <fesch> jcraig: has been missing, but still working on actions
17:09:05 <Zakim> -[Apple]
17:09:08 <MichaelC> zakim, SAP is Stefan_Schnabel
17:09:08 <Zakim> +Stefan_Schnabel; got it
17:09:22 <MichaelC> ack me
17:11:07 <fesch> T: Topic tracking of user agent spec on aria1.1
17:11:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: tracking of user agent spec on aria1.1
17:11:36 <fesch> ok
17:11:36 <clown> q+ to ask how defects are found — are there 1.1 test cases?
17:12:08 <fesch> MichaelC: Wants to wait until TPAC to get list... can make wiki of known defects
17:12:35 <fesch> rich: wants to open defects before TPAC
17:13:15 <clown> zakim, ack me
17:13:15 <Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to ask how defects are found — are there 1.1 test cases?
17:13:17 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:13:27 <fesch> Joseph: clarifies - these are potential defects as there are no test cases
17:14:08 <fesch> MichaelC: Plan to continue using murcurial test harness
17:15:52 <clown> issue-623?
17:15:52 <trackbot> issue-623 -- Consider aria-inert for disambiguation of modal states (re: html|*@inert) -- open
17:15:52 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/623
17:16:36 <fesch> MichaelC: can close action, has feedback
17:16:37 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:16:51 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
17:17:02 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:17:10 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:17:10 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:17:18 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:17:18 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:17:39 <fesch> RESOLUTION: close action 1461
17:17:49 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria
17:18:14 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
17:18:14 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
17:18:53 <fesch> Open actions and issues:
17:19:50 <clown> action-1486?
17:19:50 <trackbot> action-1486 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Inspect webkit backwards-compatibility regarding aria-setsize="999+" format for issue-397 -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
17:19:50 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1486
17:20:36 <fesch> Joanie" is editing, needs changes in webkit, will break older browsers
17:20:42 <joanie> http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/accessibility/AccessibilityObject.cpp#L2035
17:20:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1486
17:20:54 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA_Implementation_Issues ARIA Implementation Issues
17:20:59 <fesch> s/e/m
17:21:56 <fesch> JoanM: needs to convert to an int from string
17:22:12 <joanie> s/JoanM/Joanie/
17:22:45 <clown> http://localhost/~clown/GitHub/aria/implementation/aria-implementation.html#ariaSetsize
17:23:01 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#ariaSetsize
17:24:57 <clown> issue-397?
17:24:57 <trackbot> issue-397 -- Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size -- open
17:24:57 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/397
17:26:08 <fesch> joanie: aria-setsize="999+" , not liking the plus
17:26:39 <Stefan> q+
17:27:38 <fesch> joseph: need a way to have indeterinate size
17:27:59 <Stefan> -q
17:28:21 <fesch> rich: could use negative number
17:29:09 <fesch> jm: information to provide there is at least x number of items
17:29:37 <fesch> matt: what is the value of that?
17:30:37 <fesch> rich: why redo the APIs?
17:31:08 <fesch> jm: need to use -1 instead
17:32:05 <fesch> RESOLUTION: use a -1 value means unknown setsize
17:32:33 <fesch> 1486: can be closed
17:32:52 <jcraig> unknown setsize is the default
17:32:56 <fesch> joanie: -1 is the conventional value
17:33:03 <Stefan> q+
17:34:23 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#aria-setsize
17:34:39 <jcraig> What about aria-setsizemin or aria-minsetsize instead? This is about sets that are *at least* as big as a known number, but known to be larger.
17:35:01 <Stefan> progressbar indeterminate
17:35:08 <Stefan> status -1?
17:35:09 <clown> q+ to point out jcraig's irc suggestion.
17:37:02 <Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to point out jcraig's irc suggestion.
17:37:28 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
17:37:35 <fesch> rich: does not want to introduce another change to the platform unless it is necessary
17:38:55 <fesch> joseph: looking at mapping...
17:39:23 <Stefan> -q
17:39:37 <fesch> cynthia: thinks a negative number is better than converting to a string
17:39:46 <clown> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html#a94d4d84e000ef2fa3f2abf1148779941
17:40:19 <clown> 1 based, 0 indicates that this value is not applicable
17:40:24 <Stefan> +q
17:42:00 <fesch> clown: group position is 1 based... all three values are 1 based no room for negative value
17:42:34 <fesch> rich: easier to change a value than introduce a new attribute
17:42:56 <fesch> rich: do people want to use -1 and get buy in?
17:43:13 <fesch> cyntihia: have buy in
17:43:28 <clown> AXARIASetSize: <value>
17:43:38 <Stefan> I just want to add that we have at least two different concepts for indeterminate, in progressbar role we OMIT aria-valuenow to express that is indeterminate
17:44:12 <fesch> rich: lets go with a value of -1 and see if this works for Alex?
17:44:31 <clown> s/for Alex/for Alex and IA2/
17:44:52 <fesch> Stephen: we have two different approaches to indeterminate
17:44:55 <Stefan> -q
17:46:04 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
17:46:13 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:46:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-minutes.html jamesn
17:46:24 <fesch> Stephan: progress bar (omit) is indeterminate, now this would add a second form of indeterminate
17:47:38 <fesch> cynthia: better to have a explicit value, omit may be an author error
17:48:04 <fesch> rich: testing may fail with ommitting...
17:48:45 <fesch> cynthia: believes Alex and IA2 will accept -1
17:48:51 <joanie> fesch: that was me
17:49:29 <fesch> s/cyntia/joanie/
17:49:40 <clown> s/cynthia: believes Alex and IA2 will accept −1/joanie: believes Alex and IA2 will accept −1/
17:49:40 <clown> 
17:50:01 <clown> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html#a94d4d84e000ef2fa3f2abf1148779941
17:50:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Joanie Speak with Alex Surkov to get approval for aria-setsize taking a value of -1 to mean indeterminate. This will effect GroupPosition.
17:50:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1514 - Speak with alex surkov to get approval for aria-setsize taking a value of -1 to mean indeterminate. this will effect groupposition. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-10-06].
17:52:05 <clown> action-1423?
17:52:06 <trackbot> action-1423 -- Cynthia Shelly to Ask developers about group, none, and generic roles and whether it would be helpful for implementatation of e.g., narrator -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
17:52:06 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1423
17:52:40 <fesch> cynthia: needs two more weeks on action-1423
17:53:06 <clown> action-1423?
17:53:06 <trackbot> action-1423 -- Cynthia Shelly to Ask developers about group, none, and generic roles and whether it would be helpful for implementatation of e.g., narrator -- due 2014-10-13 -- OPEN
17:53:06 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1423
17:53:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1462
17:54:14 <fesch> cynthia: needs 2 more weeks on action 1462
17:54:41 <clown> action-1490
17:54:41 <trackbot> action-1490 -- James Nurthen to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2014-07-28 -- OPEN
17:54:41 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490
17:54:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490
17:54:52 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
17:54:54 <clown> issue-610
17:54:55 <trackbot> issue-610 -- Comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- open
17:54:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/610
17:55:27 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
17:55:55 <fesch> jamesn: needs another week
17:56:14 <clown> action-1505
17:56:14 <trackbot> action-1505 -- Matthew King to Create proposal for a role and strategy to address issue 633 -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
17:56:14 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1505
17:56:40 <clown> issue-633
17:56:40 <trackbot> issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- raised
17:56:40 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633
17:56:43 <fesch> matt: working on 1346
17:56:56 <fesch> matt: needs 2 more weeks
17:57:15 <fesch> matt: have duplicate actions
17:58:52 <clown> action-1346
17:58:52 <trackbot> action-1346 -- Matthew King to Propose edit to dialog role to clarify issue that leads to bad implementation -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
17:58:52 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1346
17:59:50 <mattking> A dialog is an application window that is designed to interrupt the current processing of an application in order to prompt the user to enter information
18:00:01 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#dialog
18:00:35 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
18:01:34 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#window
18:01:54 <fesch> matt: wanted to delete the word application to avoid confusion with role application
18:04:06 <fesch> rich: disambiguate application role from application usage in defintions
18:05:36 <fesch> matt: danger in using normative words with different use
18:06:22 <fesch> matt: should write a note for the window role
18:09:35 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
18:09:40 <Zakim> + +1.603.493.aaaa
18:10:03 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Joanmarie_Diggs
18:10:03 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs; got it
18:10:08 <fesch> rich: 2 options on table
18:10:33 <fesch> role = application, vendors get confused
18:10:53 <fesch> option: remove word application
18:11:14 <fesch> option: add note
18:11:53 <fesch> joanie: both OK
18:12:30 <fesch> matt: was concerned about normative uses of a word and the more generic use of the term
18:13:16 <fesch> rich: matt to come up with modification to dialog and window
18:14:11 <fesch> matt: will have something next week
18:15:16 <MichaelC> ack me
18:15:22 <clown> action-1470?
18:15:22 <trackbot> action-1470 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Draft introductions for aria 1.1, core-aam 1.1, and svg-aam 1.1 -- due 2014-07-07 -- OPEN
18:15:22 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1470
18:16:05 <fesch> action-1493?
18:16:05 <trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
18:16:05 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
18:16:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
18:16:47 <fesch> joseph: needs another week
18:17:10 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
18:17:34 <clown> action-1442
18:17:34 <trackbot> action-1442 -- Léonie Watson to Create spec. text for aria-currentfor="IDREF" and aria-current="true/false", related to issue-587 -- due 2014-05-26 -- OPEN
18:17:34 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1442
18:18:37 <fesch> rich: Leonie has not been around for a while, can Bryan take it?
18:20:16 <fesch> rich: do we need true and false?
18:20:17 <clown> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Sep/0087.html
18:21:01 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs.a
18:21:04 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
18:22:52 <fesch> brian: gave examples where aria-current may have useful true/false values
18:23:18 <fesch> matt: need language how current is different than selected
18:24:44 <fesch> rich: brian please go back to Leonie and get original use cases
18:25:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0115.html
18:29:08 <fesch> matt: Bryan's not requires aria context
18:30:30 <fesch> rich: Bryan please get back with Leonie to see which roles does this apply to - new date 13th!!!
18:31:01 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
18:31:02 <Zakim> -Matt_King
18:31:03 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
18:31:05 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:31:05 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
18:31:06 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs.a
18:31:07 <Zakim> -janina
18:31:28 <fesch> Zakim , bye
18:31:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, bye
18:31:39 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina, Michael_Cooper, Matt_King, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, James_Nurthen, Jon_Gunderson,
18:31:39 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
18:31:40 <fesch> Zakin, bye
18:31:43 <Zakim> ... [Apple], Stefan_Schnabel, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly, +1.603.493.aaaa
18:32:09 <fesch> RRSagent, make minutes
18:32:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-minutes.html fesch
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