IRC log of aria on 2014-09-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:58:43 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aria
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-irc
16:58:45 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
16:58:45 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #aria
16:58:47 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:58:47 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM already started
16:58:48 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:58:48 [trackbot]
Date: 29 September 2014
16:58:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
chair: Rich
16:58:49 [Zakim]
+Fred_Esch
16:58:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
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RRSAgent, make log public
16:59:52 [Zakim]
-Fred_Esch
16:59:54 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has ended
16:59:54 [Zakim]
Attendees were Fred_Esch
17:00:23 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has now started
17:00:27 [Zakim]
+Fred_Esch
17:00:31 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:00:57 [Zakim]
+??P15
17:01:13 [janina]
zakim, ??P15 is me
17:01:13 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
17:01:39 [Zakim]
+??P6
17:02:34 [clown]
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+Matt_King
17:02:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Sep/0104.html
17:03:02 [Zakim]
+[GVoice]
17:03:11 [clown]
zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:11 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:03:18 [clown]
zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:18 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:44 [Zakim]
+Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:48 [Zakim]
+James_Nurthen
17:03:56 [mattking]
mattking has joined #aria
17:03:56 [joanie]
Zakim, I am Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:56 [Zakim]
ok, joanie, I now associate you with Joanmarie_Diggs
17:04:16 [Zakim]
+Jon_Gunderson
17:05:18 [clown]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Teleconference_cheat_sheet
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17:06:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]
scribe: fesch
17:06:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: Action 1349
17:06:57 [Stefan]
Stefan has joined #aria
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scribe: fesch
17:07:07 [Zakim]
+[Apple]
17:07:12 [jcraig]
q+
17:07:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1349
17:07:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ack jcraig
17:07:46 [Zakim]
+[SAP]
17:08:40 [fesch]
jcraig: has been missing, but still working on actions
17:09:05 [Zakim]
-[Apple]
17:09:08 [MichaelC]
zakim, SAP is Stefan_Schnabel
17:09:08 [Zakim]
+Stefan_Schnabel; got it
17:09:22 [MichaelC]
ack me
17:11:07 [fesch]
T: Topic tracking of user agent spec on aria1.1
17:11:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: tracking of user agent spec on aria1.1
17:11:36 [fesch]
ok
17:11:36 [clown]
q+ to ask how defects are found — are there 1.1 test cases?
17:12:08 [fesch]
MichaelC: Wants to wait until TPAC to get list... can make wiki of known defects
17:12:35 [fesch]
rich: wants to open defects before TPAC
17:13:15 [clown]
zakim, ack me
17:13:15 [Zakim]
Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to ask how defects are found — are there 1.1 test cases?
17:13:17 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:13:27 [fesch]
Joseph: clarifies - these are potential defects as there are no test cases
17:14:08 [fesch]
MichaelC: Plan to continue using murcurial test harness
17:15:52 [clown]
issue-623?
17:15:52 [trackbot]
issue-623 -- Consider aria-inert for disambiguation of modal states (re: html|*@inert) -- open
17:15:52 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/623
17:16:36 [fesch]
MichaelC: can close action, has feedback
17:16:37 [Zakim]
-Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:16:51 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Garaventa
17:17:02 [Zakim]
+[GVoice]
17:17:10 [clown]
zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:17:10 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:17:18 [clown]
zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:17:18 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:17:39 [fesch]
RESOLUTION: close action 1461
17:17:49 [bgaraventa1979]
bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria
17:18:14 [bgaraventa1979]
zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
17:18:14 [Zakim]
ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
17:18:53 [fesch]
Open actions and issues:
17:19:50 [clown]
action-1486?
17:19:50 [trackbot]
action-1486 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Inspect webkit backwards-compatibility regarding aria-setsize="999+" format for issue-397 -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
17:19:50 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1486
17:20:36 [fesch]
Joanie" is editing, needs changes in webkit, will break older browsers
17:20:42 [joanie]
http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/accessibility/AccessibilityObject.cpp#L2035
17:20:43 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1486
17:20:54 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA_Implementation_Issues ARIA Implementation Issues
17:20:59 [fesch]
s/e/m
17:21:56 [fesch]
JoanM: needs to convert to an int from string
17:22:12 [joanie]
s/JoanM/Joanie/
17:22:45 [clown]
http://localhost/~clown/GitHub/aria/implementation/aria-implementation.html#ariaSetsize
17:23:01 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#ariaSetsize
17:24:57 [clown]
issue-397?
17:24:57 [trackbot]
issue-397 -- Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size -- open
17:24:57 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/397
17:26:08 [fesch]
joanie: aria-setsize="999+" , not liking the plus
17:26:39 [Stefan]
q+
17:27:38 [fesch]
joseph: need a way to have indeterinate size
17:27:59 [Stefan]
-q
17:28:21 [fesch]
rich: could use negative number
17:29:09 [fesch]
jm: information to provide there is at least x number of items
17:29:37 [fesch]
matt: what is the value of that?
17:30:37 [fesch]
rich: why redo the APIs?
17:31:08 [fesch]
jm: need to use -1 instead
17:32:05 [fesch]
RESOLUTION: use a -1 value means unknown setsize
17:32:33 [fesch]
1486: can be closed
17:32:52 [jcraig]
unknown setsize is the default
17:32:56 [fesch]
joanie: -1 is the conventional value
17:33:03 [Stefan]
q+
17:34:23 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#aria-setsize
17:34:39 [jcraig]
What about aria-setsizemin or aria-minsetsize instead? This is about sets that are *at least* as big as a known number, but known to be larger.
17:35:01 [Stefan]
progressbar indeterminate
17:35:08 [Stefan]
status -1?
17:35:09 [clown]
q+ to point out jcraig's irc suggestion.
17:37:02 [Zakim]
Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to point out jcraig's irc suggestion.
17:37:28 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
17:37:35 [fesch]
rich: does not want to introduce another change to the platform unless it is necessary
17:38:55 [fesch]
joseph: looking at mapping...
17:39:23 [Stefan]
-q
17:39:37 [fesch]
cynthia: thinks a negative number is better than converting to a string
17:39:46 [clown]
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html#a94d4d84e000ef2fa3f2abf1148779941
17:40:19 [clown]
1 based, 0 indicates that this value is not applicable
17:40:24 [Stefan]
+q
17:42:00 [fesch]
clown: group position is 1 based... all three values are 1 based no room for negative value
17:42:34 [fesch]
rich: easier to change a value than introduce a new attribute
17:42:56 [fesch]
rich: do people want to use -1 and get buy in?
17:43:13 [fesch]
cyntihia: have buy in
17:43:28 [clown]
AXARIASetSize: <value>
17:43:38 [Stefan]
I just want to add that we have at least two different concepts for indeterminate, in progressbar role we OMIT aria-valuenow to express that is indeterminate
17:44:12 [fesch]
rich: lets go with a value of -1 and see if this works for Alex?
17:44:31 [clown]
s/for Alex/for Alex and IA2/
17:44:52 [fesch]
Stephen: we have two different approaches to indeterminate
17:44:55 [Stefan]
-q
17:46:04 [jamesn]
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17:46:13 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:46:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-minutes.html jamesn
17:46:24 [fesch]
Stephan: progress bar (omit) is indeterminate, now this would add a second form of indeterminate
17:47:38 [fesch]
cynthia: better to have a explicit value, omit may be an author error
17:48:04 [fesch]
rich: testing may fail with ommitting...
17:48:45 [fesch]
cynthia: believes Alex and IA2 will accept -1
17:48:51 [joanie]
fesch: that was me
17:49:29 [fesch]
s/cyntia/joanie/
17:49:40 [clown]
s/cynthia: believes Alex and IA2 will accept −1/joanie: believes Alex and IA2 will accept −1/
17:49:40 [clown]
17:50:01 [clown]
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html#a94d4d84e000ef2fa3f2abf1148779941
17:50:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Action: Joanie Speak with Alex Surkov to get approval for aria-setsize taking a value of -1 to mean indeterminate. This will effect GroupPosition.
17:50:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1514 - Speak with alex surkov to get approval for aria-setsize taking a value of -1 to mean indeterminate. this will effect groupposition. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2014-10-06].
17:52:05 [clown]
action-1423?
17:52:06 [trackbot]
action-1423 -- Cynthia Shelly to Ask developers about group, none, and generic roles and whether it would be helpful for implementatation of e.g., narrator -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
17:52:06 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1423
17:52:40 [fesch]
cynthia: needs two more weeks on action-1423
17:53:06 [clown]
action-1423?
17:53:06 [trackbot]
action-1423 -- Cynthia Shelly to Ask developers about group, none, and generic roles and whether it would be helpful for implementatation of e.g., narrator -- due 2014-10-13 -- OPEN
17:53:06 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1423
17:53:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1462
17:54:14 [fesch]
cynthia: needs 2 more weeks on action 1462
17:54:41 [clown]
action-1490
17:54:41 [trackbot]
action-1490 -- James Nurthen to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2014-07-28 -- OPEN
17:54:41 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490
17:54:43 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490
17:54:52 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
17:54:54 [clown]
issue-610
17:54:55 [trackbot]
issue-610 -- Comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- open
17:54:55 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/610
17:55:27 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
17:55:55 [fesch]
jamesn: needs another week
17:56:14 [clown]
action-1505
17:56:14 [trackbot]
action-1505 -- Matthew King to Create proposal for a role and strategy to address issue 633 -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
17:56:14 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1505
17:56:40 [clown]
issue-633
17:56:40 [trackbot]
issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- raised
17:56:40 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633
17:56:43 [fesch]
matt: working on 1346
17:56:56 [fesch]
matt: needs 2 more weeks
17:57:15 [fesch]
matt: have duplicate actions
17:58:52 [clown]
action-1346
17:58:52 [trackbot]
action-1346 -- Matthew King to Propose edit to dialog role to clarify issue that leads to bad implementation -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
17:58:52 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1346
17:59:50 [mattking]
A dialog is an application window that is designed to interrupt the current processing of an application in order to prompt the user to enter information
18:00:01 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#dialog
18:00:35 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
18:01:34 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/spec/aria.html#window
18:01:54 [fesch]
matt: wanted to delete the word application to avoid confusion with role application
18:04:06 [fesch]
rich: disambiguate application role from application usage in defintions
18:05:36 [fesch]
matt: danger in using normative words with different use
18:06:22 [fesch]
matt: should write a note for the window role
18:09:35 [Zakim]
-Joanmarie_Diggs
18:09:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.493.aaaa
18:10:03 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaaa is Joanmarie_Diggs
18:10:03 [Zakim]
+Joanmarie_Diggs; got it
18:10:08 [fesch]
rich: 2 options on table
18:10:33 [fesch]
role = application, vendors get confused
18:10:53 [fesch]
option: remove word application
18:11:14 [fesch]
option: add note
18:11:53 [fesch]
joanie: both OK
18:12:30 [fesch]
matt: was concerned about normative uses of a word and the more generic use of the term
18:13:16 [fesch]
rich: matt to come up with modification to dialog and window
18:14:11 [fesch]
matt: will have something next week
18:15:16 [MichaelC]
ack me
18:15:22 [clown]
action-1470?
18:15:22 [trackbot]
action-1470 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Draft introductions for aria 1.1, core-aam 1.1, and svg-aam 1.1 -- due 2014-07-07 -- OPEN
18:15:22 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1470
18:16:05 [fesch]
action-1493?
18:16:05 [trackbot]
action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
18:16:05 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
18:16:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
18:16:47 [fesch]
joseph: needs another week
18:17:10 [Zakim]
-James_Nurthen
18:17:34 [clown]
action-1442
18:17:34 [trackbot]
action-1442 -- Léonie Watson to Create spec. text for aria-currentfor="IDREF" and aria-current="true/false", related to issue-587 -- due 2014-05-26 -- OPEN
18:17:34 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1442
18:18:37 [fesch]
rich: Leonie has not been around for a while, can Bryan take it?
18:20:16 [fesch]
rich: do we need true and false?
18:20:17 [clown]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Sep/0087.html
18:21:01 [Zakim]
+Joanmarie_Diggs.a
18:21:04 [Zakim]
-Joanmarie_Diggs
18:22:52 [fesch]
brian: gave examples where aria-current may have useful true/false values
18:23:18 [fesch]
matt: need language how current is different than selected
18:24:44 [fesch]
rich: brian please go back to Leonie and get original use cases
18:25:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2014AprJun/0115.html
18:29:08 [fesch]
matt: Bryan's not requires aria context
18:30:30 [fesch]
rich: Bryan please get back with Leonie to see which roles does this apply to - new date 13th!!!
18:31:01 [Zakim]
-Jon_Gunderson
18:31:02 [Zakim]
-Matt_King
18:31:03 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
18:31:05 [Zakim]
-Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:31:05 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Garaventa
18:31:06 [Zakim]
-Joanmarie_Diggs.a
18:31:07 [Zakim]
-janina
18:31:28 [fesch]
Zakim , bye
18:31:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
zakim, bye
18:31:39 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina, Michael_Cooper, Matt_King, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, James_Nurthen, Jon_Gunderson,
18:31:39 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #aria
18:31:40 [fesch]
Zakin, bye
18:31:43 [Zakim]
... [Apple], Stefan_Schnabel, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly, +1.603.493.aaaa
18:32:09 [fesch]
RRSagent, make minutes
18:32:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-aria-minutes.html fesch
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