15:02:27 RRSAgent has joined #dpub_a11y 15:02:27 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/19-dpub_a11y-irc 15:02:33 zakim, room for 5? 15:02:34 ok, Judy; conference Team_(dpub_a11y)15:02Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1602Z 15:02:53 Judy has changed the topic to: Conference Code is Zakim 26631# 15:03:16 Team_(dpub_a11y)15:02Z has now started 15:03:23 + +1.408.979.aaaa 15:03:44 Zakim, +1.408.979.aaaa is me 15:03:44 +clapierre; got it 15:03:52 zakim, dial ivan-aix 15:03:52 ok, ivan; the call is being made 15:03:54 +Ivan 15:04:10 +Judy 15:04:50 +Cooper 15:11:48 Ivan, can you post a link to that KEG document please. 15:13:02 judy: curious how much background ivan and charles have in the *cag techniques 15:13:17 clapierre: not much 15:13:19 +dkaplan3 15:13:55 scribenick: ivan 15:14:36 judy: deborah you may be fairly familiar 15:14:49 ... a bit of an overview would be good 15:15:22 dkaplan3_ has joined #dpub_a11y 15:15:24 judy: deborah, what would be good is to have a clear goal of the meeting 15:15:46 ... the question is what could be done jointly for the dpub ig tf on a11y 15:15:56 dkaplan3_: looking at the various *cag stuff 15:16:07 ... digital publishing is a subset of what is needed 15:16:14 ... it is also special 15:16:30 ... looking at the documents, let us make sure that all the requirements of the dpub are addressed 15:17:01 Judy: my guess is that something will be covered well, and we may have a broad range of special cases 15:17:26 ... we may want to use some examples from that community 15:17:43 ... for example the longdesc attr. discussion is particularly important use cases 15:17:47 ... which will be solved 15:17:54 ... and there are a number of cases for that 15:18:08 ... there is a number of use cases that we are promoting 15:19:11 MichaelC: we have two threads/tf-s to enhance the role and the other one is looking at guides 15:19:17 http://www.w3.org/TR/mwbp-wcag/ 15:19:20 ... the mobile accessibility is a good example 15:19:36 ... the relationship between the mobile web best practices and wai 15:19:46 ... that may be a good example to work 15:19:50 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/ 15:20:09 ... the mobile accessiblity tf extends it developing more concrete guideliles 15:20:35 ... they determined that most issues are covered by wcag, but the emphasis is different and they try to document taht 15:20:50 ... they also go through wcag techniques and possibly define new techniques 15:21:06 ... or showing how a specific technique is good for mobile device 15:21:22 ... we may have a particular slice throught the techniques 15:21:45 Found this WCAG http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag.php 15:21:58 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ 15:22:04 MichaelC: I can cover what we have for wcag 15:22:24 ... there are 5-600 techniques, organized by technologies 15:22:40 ... we also have general techniques, technology independent 15:22:52 ... there are are also failure techniques 15:23:09 ... regardless of what you have done you may have created a problems 15:23:12 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/aria.html#ARIA1 15:23:24 ... if you go into one technique 15:23:42 ... it shows what wcag it references and applicability 15:23:50 ... sometimes it is more specific 15:24:07 ... we coud use dpub as a filter, or even deeper (education or not) 15:24:26 ... the description of the techniques is basic, "this is what you should do" plus examples 15:24:43 ... plus test procedures, they are dry and not backed up by test files :-( 15:25:03 ... we could do the same for dpub 15:25:13 ... requirements coming from your work could impact that 15:25:54 deborah: we could put an example saying if you want to this for dpub, this is the way to do it 15:26:02 ... there is nothing here for user agents 15:26:19 MichaelC: the specific issues for user agent are not covered by these techniques 15:26:24 ... that is a separate work 15:26:51 ... for dpub you may have some very dpub specific techniques (using chapters, etc) 15:27:05 ... but lot of techniques may be relevant to dpub as well 15:27:40 http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/ 15:28:15 judy: for uaag the document is structured in a similar way on a high level 15:28:35 ... browsers, players, etc, make them accessible for assistive technologies 15:28:42 ... tehre are different developers' needs 15:29:18 http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20131107/ 15:29:21 ... we developed implementation information, it will be renamed "implementation reference" 15:29:40 (we will have a new version next week) 15:30:05 ... MichaelC mentioned the separate mobile a11y examples 15:30:10 http://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/mobile 15:30:26 ... that was produced to make people understand how relevant this is for the mobile environment 15:30:41 ... we flag and ahve a discrete view particular to mobile 15:30:58 ... that is one of the ways of organizing a particular technology 15:31:22 ... if you were to develop a dpub a11y techniques, you could integrate those techniques or call them out 15:31:42 ... plus special cases 15:32:13 ... browsing the mobile case might give you a good examples 15:32:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/uaag.php 15:32:54 Judy: in each case we felt we need a separate overview page 15:33:07 ... and then one can get oriented for a particular purpose 15:33:15 http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/atag.php 15:33:26 Judy: the atag case is closer to final 15:33:51 http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/ 15:33:56 ... this the guidelines themselves 15:34:03 ... this is fairly stable 15:34:14 ... if you go to the top of it, it has a similar approach 15:34:20 http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20131107/ 15:34:21 ... more contextual information 15:34:41 ... more similar to the uaag 15:35:26 Judy: the mobile a11y tf did not take the straightest path, in the case of dpub you do not have a proliferation of techniques around 15:35:37 ... you might be able to jump in more directly 15:36:27 ... talking to the mobile people may save you 6 months or so... 15:37:04 ... they are just drafting filling the gaps 15:38:08 dkaplan3_: it seems to be a better way to follow what they already done 15:38:18 ... talking to them at tpac may be a great help 15:38:38 ... the local connection (in the boston area) might also be a good thing to use 15:38:51 ... tpac may be so busy that this may become a difficulty 15:39:29 clapierre: I was wondering that we should also look into personalization as a form of a11y, how does that relate 15:39:44 judy: that is a important topic, with a11y intersection 15:39:56 ... particuarly with digital publishing 15:40:16 ... eg in eduction you want to have a good profile of the user to get things right 15:42:21 ... the learner profile work : in certain context it is critical to pick up the learner information and we need different options on how to cover the accessibiilty issues around 15:42:59 ... the Hakkinnen (sp?) was the person who had given lots of thought to it 15:43:10 ... we have not had too much about it in our documents 15:43:18 ... but it would be very relevant in many places 15:45:17 s/Hakkinnen (sp?)/Markku Häkkinen (aka Mark)/ 15:46:12 Judy: the dasy consortium had some guidelines that has been brought into epub2/3 15:46:30 ... I do not think it is the same it as our guides 15:46:40 s/dasy/DAISY/ 15:46:46 ... we should do first is you guys look at these documents 15:47:19 ... and then we should talk again to see what is an achievable target 15:47:21 http://www.daisy.org/ 15:47:47 dkaplan3_: clapierre and I are relative newcomers in this W3C work, 15:47:55 ivan: [jb filling in from above] interesting to hear all of the different WAI work... need to think of how to proceed... 15:50:11 judy: my guess is that the mobile people are not out of the woods yet, the person whom to talk the best would be Jean Stallman, from W3C 15:50:46 s/Jean Stallman/Jeanne Spellman/ 15:54:11 Judy: the mobile people just sent a document for review 15:54:19 ... Jeanne has just mentioned something to me 15:54:54 MichaelC: they are the beginning stages, learning the way to do 15:55:21 Judy: how hard would it be for the wcag wg to describe what makes good techniques 15:55:25 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Instructions 15:55:47 MichaelC: we have already done that, but we have a real issue; we know we want to do a better version 15:56:00 ... I cannot say when, working with you guys would actually help 15:56:10 judy: it is a good start 15:56:36 ... i hope if the mobile people were invited to comment on this; this would be really good for dpub 15:56:52 MichaelC: we have not explicitly invite them 15:57:44 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Writing_WCAG_Techniques_-_Notes 15:57:51 Judy: with the understanding that this may change, that document might be helpful (may be adapted for dpub); actually if it does not work, we would like to know why... 15:57:52 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Template 15:58:05 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_Resources 15:59:14 Judy: next steps, my suggestion wojuld be read through some of the stuffs above 15:59:31 ... I would suggest to make advantage of the f2f possibilities ahead of tpac 15:59:55 ... try to get deborah, jeanne, kathy, kim and myself in the same room 16:00:25 ... we can then talk about all this at tpac, too 16:00:42 clapierre: that sounds good 16:00:56 ... i can join by skype from the bay area 16:01:11 ... i am pretty much open at tpac, i am planning at being there for the whole week 16:01:18 dkaplan3_: this sounds great 16:01:27 ... a f2f time is very valuable 16:01:48 ... i hope clapierre is fine if i drive it here for the local f2f meeting 16:02:08 Judy: a physical conversation and a roadmap looks like a good next step 16:02:46 -Cooper 16:02:47 -Judy 16:02:47 -dkaplan3 16:02:48 -clapierre 16:02:49 rrsagent, set log public 16:02:49 -Ivan 16:02:51 Team_(dpub_a11y)15:02Z has ended 16:02:51 Attendees were clapierre, Ivan, Judy, Cooper, dkaplan3 16:02:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:02:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/19-dpub_a11y-minutes.html ivan 16:03:19 Thanks! 16:03:21 clapierre has left #dpub_a11y 18:02:46 Judy has joined #dpub_a11y 18:34:18 Judy has left #dpub_a11y