IRC log of dpub_a11y on 2014-09-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:02:27 [RRSAgent]
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15:02:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/19-dpub_a11y-irc
15:02:33 [Judy]
zakim, room for 5?
15:02:34 [Zakim]
ok, Judy; conference Team_(dpub_a11y)15:02Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1602Z
15:02:53 [Judy]
Judy has changed the topic to: Conference Code is Zakim 26631#
15:03:16 [Zakim]
Team_(dpub_a11y)15:02Z has now started
15:03:23 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.979.aaaa
15:03:44 [clapierre]
Zakim, +1.408.979.aaaa is me
15:03:44 [Zakim]
+clapierre; got it
15:03:52 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-aix
15:03:52 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:03:54 [Zakim]
+Ivan
15:04:10 [Zakim]
+Judy
15:04:50 [Zakim]
+Cooper
15:11:48 [clapierre]
Ivan, can you post a link to that KEG document please.
15:13:02 [ivan]
judy: curious how much background ivan and charles have in the *cag techniques
15:13:17 [ivan]
clapierre: not much
15:13:19 [Zakim]
+dkaplan3
15:13:55 [ivan]
scribenick: ivan
15:14:36 [ivan]
judy: deborah you may be fairly familiar
15:14:49 [ivan]
... a bit of an overview would be good
15:15:22 [dkaplan3_]
dkaplan3_ has joined #dpub_a11y
15:15:24 [ivan]
judy: deborah, what would be good is to have a clear goal of the meeting
15:15:46 [ivan]
... the question is what could be done jointly for the dpub ig tf on a11y
15:15:56 [ivan]
dkaplan3_: looking at the various *cag stuff
15:16:07 [ivan]
... digital publishing is a subset of what is needed
15:16:14 [ivan]
... it is also special
15:16:30 [ivan]
... looking at the documents, let us make sure that all the requirements of the dpub are addressed
15:17:01 [ivan]
Judy: my guess is that something will be covered well, and we may have a broad range of special cases
15:17:26 [ivan]
... we may want to use some examples from that community
15:17:43 [ivan]
... for example the longdesc attr. discussion is particularly important use cases
15:17:47 [ivan]
... which will be solved
15:17:54 [ivan]
... and there are a number of cases for that
15:18:08 [ivan]
... there is a number of use cases that we are promoting
15:19:11 [ivan]
MichaelC: we have two threads/tf-s to enhance the role and the other one is looking at guides
15:19:17 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/TR/mwbp-wcag/
15:19:20 [ivan]
... the mobile accessibility is a good example
15:19:36 [ivan]
... the relationship between the mobile web best practices and wai
15:19:46 [ivan]
... that may be a good example to work
15:19:50 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/
15:20:09 [ivan]
... the mobile accessiblity tf extends it developing more concrete guideliles
15:20:35 [ivan]
... they determined that most issues are covered by wcag, but the emphasis is different and they try to document taht
15:20:50 [ivan]
... they also go through wcag techniques and possibly define new techniques
15:21:06 [ivan]
... or showing how a specific technique is good for mobile device
15:21:22 [ivan]
... we may have a particular slice throught the techniques
15:21:45 [clapierre]
Found this WCAG http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag.php
15:21:58 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/
15:22:04 [ivan]
MichaelC: I can cover what we have for wcag
15:22:24 [ivan]
... there are 5-600 techniques, organized by technologies
15:22:40 [ivan]
... we also have general techniques, technology independent
15:22:52 [ivan]
... there are are also failure techniques
15:23:09 [ivan]
... regardless of what you have done you may have created a problems
15:23:12 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/aria.html#ARIA1
15:23:24 [ivan]
... if you go into one technique
15:23:42 [ivan]
... it shows what wcag it references and applicability
15:23:50 [ivan]
... sometimes it is more specific
15:24:07 [ivan]
... we coud use dpub as a filter, or even deeper (education or not)
15:24:26 [ivan]
... the description of the techniques is basic, "this is what you should do" plus examples
15:24:43 [ivan]
... plus test procedures, they are dry and not backed up by test files :-(
15:25:03 [ivan]
... we could do the same for dpub
15:25:13 [ivan]
... requirements coming from your work could impact that
15:25:54 [ivan]
deborah: we could put an example saying if you want to this for dpub, this is the way to do it
15:26:02 [ivan]
... there is nothing here for user agents
15:26:19 [ivan]
MichaelC: the specific issues for user agent are not covered by these techniques
15:26:24 [ivan]
... that is a separate work
15:26:51 [ivan]
... for dpub you may have some very dpub specific techniques (using chapters, etc)
15:27:05 [ivan]
... but lot of techniques may be relevant to dpub as well
15:27:40 [Judy]
http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/
15:28:15 [ivan]
judy: for uaag the document is structured in a similar way on a high level
15:28:35 [ivan]
... browsers, players, etc, make them accessible for assistive technologies
15:28:42 [ivan]
... tehre are different developers' needs
15:29:18 [Judy]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20131107/
15:29:21 [ivan]
... we developed implementation information, it will be renamed "implementation reference"
15:29:40 [ivan]
(we will have a new version next week)
15:30:05 [ivan]
... MichaelC mentioned the separate mobile a11y examples
15:30:10 [Judy]
http://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/mobile
15:30:26 [ivan]
... that was produced to make people understand how relevant this is for the mobile environment
15:30:41 [ivan]
... we flag and ahve a discrete view particular to mobile
15:30:58 [ivan]
... that is one of the ways of organizing a particular technology
15:31:22 [ivan]
... if you were to develop a dpub a11y techniques, you could integrate those techniques or call them out
15:31:42 [ivan]
... plus special cases
15:32:13 [ivan]
... browsing the mobile case might give you a good examples
15:32:47 [Judy]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/uaag.php
15:32:54 [ivan]
Judy: in each case we felt we need a separate overview page
15:33:07 [ivan]
... and then one can get oriented for a particular purpose
15:33:15 [Judy]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/atag.php
15:33:26 [ivan]
Judy: the atag case is closer to final
15:33:51 [Judy]
http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/
15:33:56 [ivan]
... this the guidelines themselves
15:34:03 [ivan]
... this is fairly stable
15:34:14 [ivan]
... if you go to the top of it, it has a similar approach
15:34:20 [Judy]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20131107/
15:34:21 [ivan]
... more contextual information
15:34:41 [ivan]
... more similar to the uaag
15:35:26 [ivan]
Judy: the mobile a11y tf did not take the straightest path, in the case of dpub you do not have a proliferation of techniques around
15:35:37 [ivan]
... you might be able to jump in more directly
15:36:27 [ivan]
... talking to the mobile people may save you 6 months or so...
15:37:04 [ivan]
... they are just drafting filling the gaps
15:38:08 [ivan]
dkaplan3_: it seems to be a better way to follow what they already done
15:38:18 [ivan]
... talking to them at tpac may be a great help
15:38:38 [ivan]
... the local connection (in the boston area) might also be a good thing to use
15:38:51 [ivan]
... tpac may be so busy that this may become a difficulty
15:39:29 [ivan]
clapierre: I was wondering that we should also look into personalization as a form of a11y, how does that relate
15:39:44 [ivan]
judy: that is a important topic, with a11y intersection
15:39:56 [ivan]
... particuarly with digital publishing
15:40:16 [ivan]
... eg in eduction you want to have a good profile of the user to get things right
15:42:21 [ivan]
... the learner profile work : in certain context it is critical to pick up the learner information and we need different options on how to cover the accessibiilty issues around
15:42:59 [ivan]
... the Hakkinnen (sp?) was the person who had given lots of thought to it
15:43:10 [ivan]
... we have not had too much about it in our documents
15:43:18 [ivan]
... but it would be very relevant in many places
15:45:17 [Judy]
s/Hakkinnen (sp?)/Markku Häkkinen (aka Mark)/
15:46:12 [ivan]
Judy: the dasy consortium had some guidelines that has been brought into epub2/3
15:46:30 [ivan]
... I do not think it is the same it as our guides
15:46:40 [dkaplan3_]
s/dasy/DAISY/
15:46:46 [ivan]
... we should do first is you guys look at these documents
15:47:19 [ivan]
... and then we should talk again to see what is an achievable target
15:47:21 [dkaplan3_]
http://www.daisy.org/
15:47:47 [ivan]
dkaplan3_: clapierre and I are relative newcomers in this W3C work,
15:47:55 [Judy]
ivan: [jb filling in from above] interesting to hear all of the different WAI work... need to think of how to proceed...
15:50:11 [ivan]
judy: my guess is that the mobile people are not out of the woods yet, the person whom to talk the best would be Jean Stallman, from W3C
15:50:46 [Judy]
s/Jean Stallman/Jeanne Spellman/
15:54:11 [ivan]
Judy: the mobile people just sent a document for review
15:54:19 [ivan]
... Jeanne has just mentioned something to me
15:54:54 [ivan]
MichaelC: they are the beginning stages, learning the way to do
15:55:21 [ivan]
Judy: how hard would it be for the wcag wg to describe what makes good techniques
15:55:25 [MichaelC]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Instructions
15:55:47 [ivan]
MichaelC: we have already done that, but we have a real issue; we know we want to do a better version
15:56:00 [ivan]
... I cannot say when, working with you guys would actually help
15:56:10 [ivan]
judy: it is a good start
15:56:36 [ivan]
... i hope if the mobile people were invited to comment on this; this would be really good for dpub
15:56:52 [ivan]
MichaelC: we have not explicitly invite them
15:57:44 [MichaelC]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Writing_WCAG_Techniques_-_Notes
15:57:51 [ivan]
Judy: with the understanding that this may change, that document might be helpful (may be adapted for dpub); actually if it does not work, we would like to know why...
15:57:52 [Judy]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Template
15:58:05 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_Resources
15:59:14 [ivan]
Judy: next steps, my suggestion wojuld be read through some of the stuffs above
15:59:31 [ivan]
... I would suggest to make advantage of the f2f possibilities ahead of tpac
15:59:55 [ivan]
... try to get deborah, jeanne, kathy, kim and myself in the same room
16:00:25 [ivan]
... we can then talk about all this at tpac, too
16:00:42 [ivan]
clapierre: that sounds good
16:00:56 [ivan]
... i can join by skype from the bay area
16:01:11 [ivan]
... i am pretty much open at tpac, i am planning at being there for the whole week
16:01:18 [ivan]
dkaplan3_: this sounds great
16:01:27 [ivan]
... a f2f time is very valuable
16:01:48 [ivan]
... i hope clapierre is fine if i drive it here for the local f2f meeting
16:02:08 [ivan]
Judy: a physical conversation and a roadmap looks like a good next step
16:02:46 [Zakim]
-Cooper
16:02:47 [Zakim]
-Judy
16:02:47 [Zakim]
-dkaplan3
16:02:48 [Zakim]
-clapierre
16:02:49 [ivan]
rrsagent, set log public
16:02:49 [Zakim]
-Ivan
16:02:51 [Zakim]
Team_(dpub_a11y)15:02Z has ended
16:02:51 [Zakim]
Attendees were clapierre, Ivan, Judy, Cooper, dkaplan3
16:02:56 [ivan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/19-dpub_a11y-minutes.html ivan
16:03:19 [clapierre]
Thanks!
16:03:21 [clapierre]
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