IRC log of audio on 2014-08-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:57:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #audio
15:57:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-audio-irc
15:57:53 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:57:55 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 28346
15:57:56 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:56 [trackbot]
Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
15:57:56 [trackbot]
Date: 28 August 2014
15:57:59 [olivier]
Agenda?
15:58:49 [olivier]
Agenda+ communication/education on AudioWorker and changes to SPN
16:00:29 [kawai]
kawai has joined #audio
16:00:40 [Zakim]
RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:00:41 [jernoble]
jernoble has joined #audio
16:00:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.455.aaaa
16:00:54 [joe]
joe has joined #audio
16:01:37 [olivier]
Regrets: gmandyam
16:02:31 [Zakim]
+ +44.303.040.aabb
16:02:39 [olivier]
zakim, aabb is me
16:02:39 [Zakim]
+olivier; got it
16:02:46 [olivier]
zakim, aaaa is joe
16:02:46 [Zakim]
+joe; got it
16:03:28 [Zakim]
+??P11
16:03:33 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:03:39 [cwilso]
zakim, ??P11 is me
16:03:39 [Zakim]
+cwilso; got it
16:03:40 [kawai]
zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
16:03:40 [Zakim]
sorry, kawai, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:03:51 [kawai]
zakim, +IPcaller is me
16:03:51 [Zakim]
sorry, kawai, I do not recognize a party named '+IPcaller'
16:03:57 [cwilso]
zakim, cwilso has rtoyg
16:03:58 [Zakim]
+rtoyg; got it
16:04:00 [rtoyg_]
rtoyg_ has joined #audio
16:04:07 [olivier]
zakim, IPcaller is kawai
16:04:07 [Zakim]
+kawai; got it
16:04:42 [Zakim]
+jernoble
16:05:56 [olivier]
Agenda+ heartbeat pub
16:06:01 [olivier]
agenda?
16:07:18 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:07:31 [olivier]
zakim, IPcaller is padenot
16:07:31 [Zakim]
+padenot; got it
16:07:37 [olivier]
zakim, take up agendum 1
16:07:37 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Review of Action Items" taken up [from olivier]
16:07:54 [olivier]
https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda
16:08:26 [olivier]
action-107 closed
16:08:26 [trackbot]
Closed action-107.
16:08:40 [olivier]
action-108 closed
16:08:40 [trackbot]
Closed action-108.
16:09:04 [olivier]
action-104
16:09:04 [trackbot]
action-104 -- Paul Adenot to Extract formulas from cookbook -- due 2014-08-21 -- OPEN
16:09:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/104
16:09:06 [olivier]
action-105
16:09:06 [trackbot]
action-105 -- Doug Schepers to Mark up formulas for biquadfilter in mathml (get help from mathjax?) -- due 2014-08-21 -- OPEN
16:09:06 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/105
16:09:52 [olivier]
padenot: reviewing code in gecko and webkit, they seem different
16:10:01 [olivier]
... different math, but result is the same
16:10:06 [olivier]
... should be fine
16:10:42 [olivier]
(reviewed during last call- http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-audio-minutes.html#item01)
16:11:36 [olivier]
padenot: will implement
16:11:44 [olivier]
zakim, take up agendum 2
16:11:44 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "progress on AudioWorker/ScriptProcessorNode" taken up [from olivier]
16:12:32 [olivier]
CfC issued = http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2014JulSep/0061.html
16:13:20 [olivier]
olivier: have not seen objection to the breaking changes
16:13:29 [padenot]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2014JulSep/0063.html ?
16:13:32 [olivier]
cwilso: not sure if ROC's comment was an objection
16:13:51 [Zakim]
-padenot
16:13:53 [padenot]
ahh
16:14:22 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:14:31 [padenot]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
16:14:31 [Zakim]
+padenot; got it
16:15:03 [olivier]
cwilso: empathetic to the fact it would be a breaking change
16:15:27 [joe]
q+
16:15:31 [olivier]
... will be tough but given IE is implementing at the moment, we should take the heat
16:15:33 [padenot]
q+
16:15:44 [olivier]
... harder to change if another browser implements it
16:15:46 [olivier]
ack joe
16:16:03 [cwilso]
q+ to respond to Joe
16:16:09 [olivier]
joe: possible to make it clear that it is not part of the spec but keep it in implementations
16:17:05 [olivier]
cwilso: problem is we can't have things that are not in the spec but necessary for code that is in web at large
16:17:24 [olivier]
... cwilso explains impact on interop
16:17:31 [olivier]
+1
16:17:36 [olivier]
ack padenot
16:17:39 [cwilso]
q-
16:17:41 [olivier]
q- cwilso
16:18:01 [cwilso]
q+
16:18:04 [olivier]
padenot: possible to offer a monkey patch for people to transition
16:18:07 [olivier]
ack c
16:18:18 [olivier]
cwilso: was thinking through this this AM
16:18:24 [olivier]
... should be possible
16:18:32 [olivier]
... not going to be a trivial monkeypatch
16:19:04 [olivier]
... challenge is to do the post messaging back and forth; hope for the best
16:19:11 [cwilso]
q-
16:19:19 [olivier]
... padenot: it's already broken, so...
16:19:37 [olivier]
... might take a browser engineer to write the polyfill, give it to all
16:19:53 [olivier]
zakim, take up agendum 6
16:19:53 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "communication/education on AudioWorker and changes to SPN" taken up [from olivier]
16:20:07 [olivier]
cwilso: will write blog post
16:20:21 [olivier]
padenot: should start logging into browser console
16:20:36 [olivier]
... with link to blog post
16:21:52 [olivier]
olivier: wondering about scheduling of publication, blog post etc
16:22:21 [olivier]
cwilso: we need to have the ability to polyfill old version on top of the new
16:23:15 [olivier]
cwilso: think we should publish draft and polyfill ASAP
16:23:24 [olivier]
... and wait before removing the old one
16:23:46 [olivier]
olivier: can it be marked as deprecated for now
16:23:51 [olivier]
cwilso: sure
16:24:51 [olivier]
olivier: wondering if we could get help from W3C comms... maybe w3c homepage item
16:25:13 [olivier]
action: olivier to reach out to W3C comms, ask for help re deprecation of spn
16:25:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-110 - Reach out to w3c comms, ask for help re deprecation of spn [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2014-09-04].
16:25:27 [olivier]
zakim, take up agendum 7
16:25:27 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "heartbeat pub" taken up [from olivier]
16:25:55 [olivier]
olivier: we haven't published anything on /TR for a while
16:26:28 [olivier]
[discussing changelog]
16:27:35 [olivier]
olivier: don't think we have published since the data races fix
16:28:36 [olivier]
olivier: sounds like we should publish soon
16:28:57 [olivier]
cwilso: would prefer to get AudioWorker stuff in before
16:29:37 [cwilso]
zakim, agenda?
16:29:37 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
16:29:38 [Zakim]
1. Review of Action Items [from olivier]
16:29:38 [Zakim]
2. progress on AudioWorker/ScriptProcessorNode [from olivier]
16:29:38 [Zakim]
3. suspend()/resume()/release() on AudioContext [from olivier]
16:29:38 [Zakim]
4. Buffer latency hint [from olivier]
16:29:38 [Zakim]
5. AOB/Next meeting [from olivier]
16:29:38 [Zakim]
6. communication/education on AudioWorker and changes to SPN [from olivier]
16:29:39 [Zakim]
7. heartbeat pub [from olivier]
16:29:49 [olivier]
RESOLUTION: publish webaudioapi to /TR after Audioworker changes included
16:30:11 [olivier]
olivier: what about web midi
16:31:12 [olivier]
[noticing link to editor's draft in webmidi is broken]
16:31:58 [olivier]
olivier: what about (first) last call for webmidi?
16:32:12 [olivier]
cwilso: still have open issues, would prefer to go through them and see what needs to be fixed
16:32:21 [olivier]
... may not stand in the way of a last call
16:33:11 [olivier]
olivier: suggest we review state of webmidi after we publish webaudioapi to TR, with AudioWorker stuff included
16:33:55 [olivier]
RESOLUTION: review webmidi issues after publication of webaudio, decide on Last call then
16:35:19 [olivier]
zakim, take up agendum 3
16:35:19 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "suspend()/resume()/release() on AudioContext" taken up [from olivier]
16:35:56 [olivier]
http://cwilso.github.io/web-audio-api/pr_ignore.html#widl-AudioContext-release-Promise
16:36:02 [olivier]
https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/317
16:37:05 [olivier]
olivier: wondering about release...
16:37:13 [olivier]
... is that unusual?
16:37:40 [olivier]
padenot: whatwg spec mention explicitely the UA should release when the src attribute is removed
16:38:24 [olivier]
cwilso: no control over when GC is happening
16:38:59 [olivier]
... problematic for something like audiocontext which takes limited resources
16:39:23 [olivier]
padenot: we have similar issue with FFOS
16:40:22 [olivier]
ACTION: cwilso to ping TAG about novel(?) method to impact GC
16:40:22 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-111 - Ping tag about novel(?) method to impact gc [on Chris Wilson - due 2014-09-04].
16:40:37 [olivier]
https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/348
16:41:25 [olivier]
[looking at comment thread]
16:41:33 [olivier]
jer?
16:42:45 [cwilso]
q+
16:42:49 [olivier]
jer: still unsure, need more thinking
16:43:01 [olivier]
... would prefer wrapping into something a little higher level
16:43:09 [olivier]
... we have this concept in iOS
16:43:34 [olivier]
ack c
16:43:49 [olivier]
cwilso: agree there may be other features we may want to wrap together
16:43:58 [olivier]
... this is beneath that - about implementation
16:44:30 [olivier]
... driven by request from google play
16:45:35 [olivier]
... don't want to rip control of that from the UA
16:46:09 [olivier]
jer: does this have client-side visible effect?
16:46:21 [olivier]
cwilso: only discernable impact is in pattern of power consumption
16:46:40 [olivier]
... and difference in timing if you have a # of SPN
16:47:05 [olivier]
jer: what if we have latency reporting
16:47:11 [olivier]
cwilso: yes, we would see it
16:47:58 [olivier]
jer: then would have to be careful, if there may be visible effect
16:48:11 [olivier]
cwilso: we have this today already
16:48:35 [olivier]
... we get different latency numbers
16:50:05 [olivier]
jer: fine with giving control to script, but will be difficult to get api right
16:50:32 [olivier]
cwilso: happy to discuss different APIs
16:51:30 [olivier]
Topic: AudioWorker discussion
16:52:05 [olivier]
cwilso: three things I wanted to bring up
16:52:18 [olivier]
... 1. request to change audiobuffer to float32
16:52:25 [olivier]
... ok with that
16:52:41 [olivier]
... but we should separate event/have different name
16:52:56 [olivier]
cwilso: any objection?
16:53:45 [cwilso]
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/F9BgLmgV
16:53:46 [olivier]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2014JulSep/0139.html ?
16:55:33 [olivier]
joe: if we change event name, would probably make it OK
16:55:41 [olivier]
... someone else made the same point
16:55:52 [cwilso]
s/someone else/cwilso
16:56:12 [olivier]
olivier: sounds like consensus
16:56:59 [olivier]
cwilso: plan to make change to float32arrays, change name, mark old one as deprecated
16:57:34 [olivier]
s/1.//
16:58:05 [olivier]
olivier: make it so
16:58:14 [olivier]
zakim, take up agendum 5
16:58:14 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "AOB/Next meeting" taken up [from olivier]
16:58:28 [joe]
must leave now; fractional regrets
16:58:33 [Zakim]
-joe
16:58:55 [olivier]
jer: wanted to know status of web audio test suite
16:59:55 [olivier]
olivier: no recent progress but we need to pick up, want to deal with arch changes soon, then focus time at and after TPAC on testing
17:01:43 [olivier]
tentative date for next meeting: 11th Sept
17:02:27 [olivier]
ADJOURNED
17:02:28 [Zakim]
-cwilso
17:02:29 [Zakim]
-jernoble
17:02:32 [olivier]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:02:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:02:33 [Zakim]
-kawai
17:02:47 [Zakim]
-olivier
17:02:48 [Zakim]
-padenot
17:02:48 [Zakim]
RWC_Audio()12:00PM has ended
17:02:48 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.617.455.aaaa, +44.303.040.aabb, olivier, joe, rtoyg, kawai, jernoble, padenot
17:03:01 [olivier]
Chair: olivier
17:03:15 [olivier]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:03:37 [olivier]
padenot: tentative regrets for the 11th
17:03:46 [olivier]
olivier: fine, make sure to have moz rep if possible
17:03:49 [olivier]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:04:17 [olivier]
zakim, bye
17:04:17 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #audio
17:04:22 [olivier]
rrsagent, bye
17:04:22 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-audio-actions.rdf :
17:04:22 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: olivier to reach out to W3C comms, ask for help re deprecation of spn [1]
17:04:22 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-audio-irc#T16-25-13
17:04:22 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: cwilso to ping TAG about novel(?) method to impact GC [2]
17:04:22 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-audio-irc#T16-40-22