<trackbot> Date: 06 May 2014

<clown> agenda: this

<scribe> scribenick: joanie

No meeting next week. Think about what edits (issues/actions) are most important for next heart beat draft.

JS: There's no meeting next week because I'm on vacation.
... But it has been suggested by the main group that we have a heart beat draft of all the spec stuff
... And they want that by the end of the month.
... So perhaps while I am away, you all could go through everything and see if there is anything you want done.

DB: (asks about heart beat draft)

JS: Usually we have done a heart beat draft when we have a critical mass of things to publish
... The main group seems to be leaning towards every 3 months
... This round, already converted to re-spec, moved to github
... And James Craig has also done a lot
... Let's find things we can agree to quickly and include in this heart beat

DB: Looking over issues and actions is the easiest

JS: Yes
... We added back the UIA mappings
... We also are adding things Joanie submitted via a comment
... Anything else?

DB: When?

JS: They want to publish by the end of the month.
... When we meet next we need to decide.
... I don't actually publish this; Michael does.

CS: Working Drafts are a work in progress
... But we want to be sure they are ready for the wider audience
... If we can get a few more issues in there, great; if not, just be sure it is ready to publish

ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368 (Cynthia): Investigate IE implementation of aria-live region events.

<clown> ACTION-1368?

<trackbot> ACTION-1368 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in ie apropos issue-481. -- due 2014-04-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1368

JS: This one was due last week, while I was away.
... It's one of these issues about ARIA Live Regions, removal events.
... Do you tell the AT ahead of time so that it can report was removed?
... Both Cynthia and David had an action item

<davidb> my action is 1369

CS: I haven't done it yet

<clown> action-1369?

<trackbot> action-1369 -- David Bolter to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in FF -- due 2014-05-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1369

DB: I think Matt raised it because it is important for some cases.

<clown> issue-481?

<trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen before object removal -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481

DB: I am going to give a long version why we should leave it as SHOULD.
... For ATs in process, they have access to what is going to be removed before it is removed from memory
... An additional complication is Firefox is moving to multiprocess
... AT can only inject into the main process
... Which means they won't be in-process with content
... Which means this issue is going to become moot.
... I cannot speak with certainty until we make this change
... But I don't know if making it a MUST is going to be viable.
... Alex and I are leaning to keeping it a SHOULD.

JS: My feeling is that we need to engage Matt King.

DB: I can follow up

JS: Yes, send him an email referencing the original issue.
... And explaining what Mozilla is doing

DB: I would be curious to know what IE thinks about all this.

action-1368?

<trackbot> action-1368 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in ie apropos issue-481. -- due 2014-04-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1368

CS: That's not showing up in my open actions.... Oh yes it is.

JS: It is issue 481

<davidb> ACTION: davidb to contact Matt King regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1434 - Contact matt king regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process [on David Bolter - due 2014-05-13].

<clown> action-1434?

<trackbot> action-1434 -- David Bolter to Contact matt king regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process -- due 2014-05-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1434

JS: We can close 1369

<davidb> BTW FTR here is my note in action 1369 "We'd like to leave this a SHOULD for now. Ultimately it would be good to spec this for both in-process and out-of-process AT interaction. Separately, there is an additional complication in implementation for multi-process browsers where AT does not interact directly with the content process."

<clown> close action-1369

<trackbot> Closed action-1369.

ACTION-1408 (Joseph): Email Jason Kiss followup re: AAPI that describes API differences.

JS: I haven't done it yet.
... This is the whole business of adding a section to the UAIG
... that explains the accessibility APIs
... He shared a long email thread

<clown> action-1408?

<trackbot> action-1408 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Send email to jason kiss to ask him if he could write an aapi section that describes api differences. -- due 2014-05-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1408

JS: I am going to do this at the end of the month.
... It is not going to be part of the heart beat.
... I want to get a better understanding of what we are talking about so I can ask the appropriate questions.
... I may get it done before then (June 10th)

ISSUE-594: (David, Joanie): tablist has implicit live region mapping in UIA guide (IA2, ATK).

<clown> ISSUE-594?

<trackbot> ISSUE-594 -- tablist role has implicit live region mapping in UIA guide -- raised

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/594

JS: This is one of the ones we can wrap up quickly.
... This is strange, in the mapping tables, Tab Lists for IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI, Tab List is marked as a live region.
... Steven Faulkner suggested we remove this.

<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400

JS: It looks like Firefox has already done the removal.

DB: I think Marco found this behavior annoying

JS: I wanted to check with both of you that this is the right thing to do.

JD: I agree.

DB: It would be interesting to know how it crept in.

BG: I was wondering if Tab Panel has the same thing.

DB: In Firefox, Tab List and their associated content were not represented semantically in the tree.
... They were in separate branches.
... One suggestion was to use active descendant. Maybe there was a mix-up?

<clown> ACTION: Joseph to edit the IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI entries for role tablist to remove the live region aspects of the mapping. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-aapi-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1435 - Edit the ia2 and atk/at-spi entries for role tablist to remove the live region aspects of the mapping. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2014-05-13].

<clown> action-1435?

<trackbot> action-1435 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the ia2 and atk/at-spi entries for role tablist to remove the live region aspects of the mapping. -- due 2014-05-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1435

ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): Test case for IE selection on a single selection container when item becomes unselected.

<clown> action-1371?

<trackbot> action-1371 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate what ie does for single selection container when item becomes unselected, and create a test case (issue-618). -- due 2014-04-08 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1371

CS: Why don't we say end of May?
... Let's do the 29th.

1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All) Start with ACTION-842, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842

JS: This is triage.
... Let's start at the top and go through them.

<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23

<clown> action-842?

<trackbot> action-842 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a diagram to support 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree -- due 2011-06-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842

DB: This is not going to be detailed, correct?

CS: My intention was to make it detailed.

DB: Our accessibility trees aren't the same right?

CS: On this action, I think we should make it a 1.1 action.
... If we don't make it in time, we should remove it.

JS: We'll make it September 2.

CS: (Clarifies the "1.2" in the action refers to the section)

<clown> action-980?

<trackbot> action-980 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define mappings for managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-05-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980

<clown> asdfasdf

<clown> user agents must compute managed states VISIBLE/INVISIBLE, SHOWING/OFFSCREEN, etc. This typically is done in the same way as for ordinary elements that do not have WAI-ARIA attributes present. The FOCUSABLE/FOCUSED states may be affected by aria-activedescendant. See the rules in Controlling focus with aria-activedescendant.

<clown> http://localhost/~clown/GitHub/aria/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property

CS: Is it adding more detail? Is that what it's asking for?

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property

DB: I guess it's asking us to define how it's done so we come up with the same thing.
... We have an HTML version (accessibility guide)....

CS: Why do you think it belongs there and not in ARIA?

DB: The language might be similar.

CS: It makes sense to define it in HTML and reference it in ARIA.
... Add that to the issue.
... Should I do this or should David?

DB: Who is doing the HTML guide

JS: The editors for that guide are Jason Kiss, Alex Surkov, Steve Faulkner.

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/html-api-map/master/index.html

<davidb> I think Alex could help with "This typically is done in the same way as for ordinary elements that do not have WAI-ARIA attributes present." for managed state stuff.

JS: I think (the above URL) is what you're talking about.

CS: What it is about... The first bullet has this text

<cyns> this is too vague: "This typically is done in the same way as for ordinary elements that do not have ARIA "

<davidb> (hmmm or maybe Marco)

<cyns> need to define what is typically done

<davidb> agreed

JS: So it's not specific to aria-setsize, posinset, level...?

CS: Those are the managed states
... The second piece is

<cyns> 2nd piece is to define what ARIA managed states add/change

DB: This is an action?

JS: 980 is an action.

DB: We assign it maybe?
... I should talk to Alex and Marco first.

JS: I will add a note to the issue for David to discuss this with Alex and Marco and report back.

<clown> action-1102?

<trackbot> action-1102 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to [ARIA 1.1] Get someone to look at the SHOULD statements in the Role Mapping table. Can these be changed from "SHOULD be exposed" to "expose as" -- due 2014-05-20 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1102

JS: This is an edit I have to do.
... There is a list of four things. Exactly what I need to do is written there.
... I will try to get this done for the heart beat.

DB: Makes sense.

<clown> action-1104?

<trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2013-09-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104

CS: I may be able to have a conversation about what should be here (wrt the above issue)
... Let's make it due June 30th.

<clown> action-1263?

<trackbot> action-1263 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to AXARIABusy is probably going to change to something less ARIA-specific, like AXBusy or AXElementBusy -- due 2013-12-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1263

JS: I think this is something I can do.
... It's changing an Apple mapping for aria busy.
... The forking is done so I can go ahead and do this.
... I will add a note to the issue.
... And change the due date to two weeks from now.

yup

didn't know that

sorry

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/1361/1369/
Found ScribeNick: joanie
Inferring Scribes: joanie
Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Joanie_Diggs, David_Bolter, cyns
Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Bryan_Garaventa Joanie_Diggs David_Bolter cyns
Found Date: 06 May 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: davidb joseph

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