IRC log of mobile-a11y on 2014-04-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:39:10 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
- 13:39:10 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/25-mobile-a11y-irc
- 13:39:12 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:39:12 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
- 13:39:14 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
- 13:39:14 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
- 13:39:15 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 13:39:15 [trackbot]
- Date: 25 April 2014
- 13:40:03 [KimPatch]
- chair: Kimberly_Patch
- 13:46:17 [KimPatch]
- agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Apr/0025.html
- 13:47:30 [KimPatch]
- regrets+ Kathleen_Anderson, Gavin, Kathleen_Wahlbin
- 13:48:09 [KimPatch]
- agenda+ Jan will take us through his analysis of the BBC guidelines
- 13:48:11 [KimPatch]
- agenda+ Brainstorm on responsive design
- 13:48:12 [KimPatch]
- agenda+ Next Steps – next meeting will be Friday April 18
- 13:51:48 [KimPatch]
- Agenda?
- 13:52:40 [Zakim]
- WAI_MATF()10:00AM has now started
- 13:52:47 [Zakim]
- +Kim_Patch
- 13:55:45 [KimPatch]
- regrets+ Alan_Smith
- 14:00:28 [jeanne]
- jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y
- 14:01:37 [Zakim]
- +Jeanne
- 14:01:39 [Jan_]
- Jan_ has joined #mobile-a11y
- 14:01:50 [Jan_]
- zakim, code?
- 14:01:50 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 6283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan_
- 14:02:44 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:03:42 [jon_avila]
- jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y
- 14:04:34 [Detlev]
- Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y
- 14:04:39 [Zakim]
- +[GVoice]
- 14:04:45 [jon_avila]
- zakim, I am GVoice
- 14:04:45 [Zakim]
- ok, jon_avila, I now associate Jon_avila with [GVoice]
- 14:05:55 [Zakim]
- +Detlev
- 14:07:10 [Detlev]
- scribe:Detlev
- 14:07:55 [Detlev]
- scribe: Detlev
- 14:07:57 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:07:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/25-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
- 14:08:14 [Detlev]
- Zakim, take up next
- 14:08:14 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Jan will take us through his analysis of the BBC guidelines" taken up [from KimPatch]
- 14:08:17 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 14:08:43 [jeanne]
- present+ Kim, Jeanne, Jan, Jon, Detlev
- 14:09:04 [Jan_]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Apr/0008.html
- 14:09:13 [Jan_]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Apr/0007.html
- 14:10:26 [Jan_]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Apr/att-0008/BBCMobileGuide10_comparison_with_WCAG2UAAG2-rev2.html
- 14:13:44 [Detlev]
- Kim: Jan walking though Comparison BBC - WCAG table
- 14:14:52 [Detlev]
- Jan: Standard operating system alerts must be used where available - not covered in WCAG but in UAAG
- 14:15:52 [Detlev]
- Jan: Touch events must only be triggered when touch is removed from a control - not covered there might be a future touch interface technique for that
- 14:15:53 [jon_avila]
- q+
- 14:16:06 [jon_avila]
- zakim, I am GVoice
- 14:16:06 [Zakim]
- ok, jon_avila, I now associate Jon_avila with [GVoice]
- 14:16:11 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:17:18 [Detlev]
- Detlev: Question on place of touch interaction in WCAG hierarch<
- 14:17:24 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:17:42 [Detlev]
- Jan: indieUI forcuses on that - in this case its related to focussing SC
- 14:18:28 [Detlev]
- Jon: This requirement may have exceptions, not intended for screen reader use
- 14:19:22 [Detlev]
- Jon: requirment addresses users without fine motor control
- 14:19:42 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:20:12 [Detlev]
- Jan asking whether SC 3.2.1 On focus is the right place for touch related techniques
- 14:20:39 [Detlev]
- Jon: Was originally thinking of 2.1.1 keyboard but not the ideal place
- 14:21:25 [Detlev]
- Jan: So either find a place within scheme of SCs or say it's outside WCAG hierarchy
- 14:21:59 [Detlev]
- Jan: better out it in and wait to updated WCAG
- 14:22:39 [Detlev]
- Jan: Touch events must only be triggered when touch is removed from a control - was removed frm WCAG 2.0 - still in in BBC guidelines
- 14:23:03 [Detlev]
- Jon: Maybe an issue in some markets (lack of modern kit?)
- 14:23:49 [Detlev]
- Jon: There are some SCR Techniques - we need to ensure that these are supported on mobile browsers with AT
- 14:24:39 [jeanne]
- I agree that we should not include this requirement to remove Javascript.
- 14:25:17 [jeanne]
- q+ to say that is not an accessibility issue
- 14:25:47 [Jan_]
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Mini#JavaScript_support
- 14:27:12 [Detlev]
- Jeanne: Javascript support is not a direct accessibility issue
- 14:28:01 [jon_avila]
- +1 with Jeanne
- 14:28:16 [Detlev]
- Jeanne: So much negative views of accessibility in the developer community that requirng suport of non-JS would be foolish
- 14:28:25 [KimPatch]
- +1
- 14:28:37 [Detlev]
- Jeanne: Nearly everything is based on JS these days...
- 14:28:42 [Detlev]
- General agreement
- 14:28:43 [Jan_]
- http://trends.builtwith.com/docinfo/Javascript
- 14:29:41 [Detlev]
- Opera mini has a high level of JS suport
- 14:30:12 [Detlev]
- Jan: "Audio must not play automatically unless the user is made aware this is happening or a pause/stop button is provided" - WCAG similar
- 14:31:37 [Detlev]
- Jan: "Metadata should be provided for media" - points to a technique for 1.2.3 Audio Description or Media Alternative (Prerecorded):
- 14:32:15 [Detlev]
- Jon: There are other places within WCAG for metadata (in 1.1.1)
- 14:32:40 [jeanne]
- s/suport of non-JS would be foolish/requiring non-JS would be setting us backward.
- 14:32:45 [jon_avila]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/text-equiv-all.html
- 14:33:26 [Jan_]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/text-equiv-all.html#non-text-contentdef
- 14:34:25 [Detlev]
- Jan: will change/ include in mapping
- 14:35:21 [Detlev]
- Jan: BBC: Recommendations more related to usability, less to a11y
- 14:37:13 [Detlev]
- Jon: The point was to determine where within the WCAG scheme one could slot in BBC techniques
- 14:38:00 [Detlev]
- Jon: Captions weren't perhaps covered because they are linked to different req.
- 14:38:52 [Detlev]
- Jon: Bypass blocks proably not covered because of the smaller screen on mobile
- 14:39:36 [Detlev]
- Multiple ways probablly not covered because mobl apps not considered a collection of pages
- 14:40:34 [jeanne]
- q+ for background of what we are doing with the gap analysis
- 14:40:41 [Detlev]
- Jan: BBC guidelines cannot claim the same universality as WCAG - corporate perspective
- 14:41:13 [Detlev]
- Jon: Guidelines good, can be used as gudance, not adopted directly
- 14:41:52 [Detlev]
- Kim: Not sure whether BBC has been asked to 'donate' techniques
- 14:42:23 [Detlev]
- Jeanne: Gap analysis serves to identify need for additional techniques
- 14:43:15 [Detlev]
- Zakim, take up next
- 14:43:15 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Detlev
- 14:43:29 [KimPatch]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Responsive_Design#5_April_2014_Discussion:_Responsive_Design
- 14:43:41 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:43:41 [jeanne]
- ack jeann
- 14:43:42 [Zakim]
- jeanne, you wanted to say that is not an accessibility issue and to discuss background of what we are doing with the gap analysis
- 14:43:42 [jon_avila]
- q-
- 14:43:45 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:43:48 [jeanne]
- ack GVoic
- 14:43:53 [Detlev]
- Zakim, take up next
- 14:43:53 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Brainstorm on responsive design" taken up [from KimPatch]
- 14:45:26 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:45:32 [Detlev]
- Kim: Spot the things that need attention
- 14:45:33 [jon_avila]
- q+
- 14:46:20 [Detlev]
- Jan: Differnet content may be loaded at different breakpoints, things may be switched
- 14:47:04 [Detlev]
- Jeanne: Discussion going on responsive image rec. - allowing change of images where img would require different alt
- 14:47:21 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:47:41 [jeanne]
- zakim, GVoice is really jon_avila
- 14:47:41 [Zakim]
- +jon_avila; got it
- 14:48:08 [Detlev]
- Jon: menu normally on screen becomes a flyout - will adress this in talk
- 14:48:33 [Detlev]
- q+
- 14:49:53 [Detlev]
- Jon: Form design: placeholder issues - have smaller label appear above the input
- 14:50:10 [Detlev]
- q-
- 14:50:39 [Detlev]
- Jon: tables may be dynamically formatted at different breakppoints
- 14:50:58 [Detlev]
- Jon: so the assumption that some things stay the same may be incorrect
- 14:51:18 [Detlev]
- Kim: Other things?
- 14:51:22 [Detlev]
- q+
- 14:51:42 [jon_avila]
- q-
- 14:51:45 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:51:57 [jon_avila]
- q-
- 14:54:08 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:54:55 [Detlev]
- Detlev: wonders whether navigation related differences between browsers may entre the picture somewhere - may not be an a11y issue
- 14:54:56 [jeanne]
- ack GVoice
- 14:55:09 [jeanne]
- ack [GVoice
- 14:55:13 [jeanne]
- ack Det
- 14:55:49 [Detlev]
- Jon - acknowledges differences to desktop - gestures mimicking back button
- 14:56:34 [jeanne]
- q+ to ask if we could make a statement that we do not support testing for assistive tech and providing a different page for assistive tech users.
- 14:57:19 [Detlev]
- Kim: basic point was navigation mechanisms are diverse and often diferent from desktop
- 14:58:00 [Detlev]
- Jeanne: Responsive design is not the same as delivering custom designs to particular assistive technologies
- 14:58:40 [jon_avila]
- q?
- 14:59:33 [Detlev]
- Jon: Responsive design could go further by being responsive to user preferences (such as prefer desktop site=
- 14:59:39 [jeanne]
- +1 to Jon's comment
- 15:00:40 [Detlev]
- Jan: Trigger breakpoints to have larger text in one column
- 15:01:14 [Detlev]
- Jon: Agrees that detection of AT not desirable - more listening to user prefs
- 15:04:47 [Detlev]
- Detlev: Mentioning customisabilty options
- 15:04:59 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 15:05:00 [Zakim]
- -jon_avila
- 15:05:00 [Zakim]
- -Detlev
- 15:05:45 [KimPatch]
- zakim, list participants
- 15:05:45 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Kim_Patch, Jeanne, [IPcaller], Detlev, jon_avila
- 15:06:03 [KimPatch]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:06:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/25-mobile-a11y-minutes.html KimPatch
- 15:07:35 [KimPatch]
- rrsagent, bye
- 15:07:35 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items