IRC log of aria on 2014-03-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:59:43 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:59:43 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/24-aria-irc
16:59:45 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs member
16:59:45 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #aria
16:59:47 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:59:47 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM already started
16:59:48 [trackbot]: Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:59:48 [trackbot]: Date: 24 March 2014
16:59:58 [jamesn]: jamesn has joined #aria
17:00:10 [janina]: zakim, who's on the phone?
17:00:10 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P0
17:00:18 [janina]: zakim, ??P0 is me
17:00:18 [Zakim]: +janina; got it
17:00:28 [Zakim]: +Bryan_Garaventa
17:01:40 [Zakim]: +James_Nurthen
17:01:59 [Zakim]: +joanie
17:02:09 [bgaraventa1979]: bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria
17:02:10 [richardschwerdtfeger]: richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aria
17:02:18 [jongund]: jongund has joined #aria
17:02:26 [Zakim]: +Jon_Gunderson
17:02:37 [Zakim]: +[GVoice]
17:02:40 [bgaraventa1979]: zakim, aaaa is Bryan_Garaventa
17:02:40 [Zakim]: sorry, bgaraventa1979, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
17:02:44 [Zakim]: +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:02:46 [clown]: zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:02:46 [Zakim]: +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:02:54 [clown]: zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:02:54 [Zakim]: ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:02:58 [Zakim]: +??P10
17:03:02 [clown]: zakim, who's here?
17:03:02 [Zakim]: On the phone I see janina, Bryan_Garaventa, James_Nurthen, joanie, Jon_Gunderson, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper
17:03:05 [Zakim]: On IRC I see jongund, richardschwerdtfeger, bgaraventa1979, jamesn, Zakim, RRSAgent, clown, MichaelC, janina, joanie, MarkS, trackbot
17:03:55 [richardschwerdtfeger]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Mar/0078.html
17:04:19 [bgaraventa1979]: zakim, aaaa is Bryan_Garaventa
17:04:20 [Zakim]: sorry, bgaraventa1979, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
17:04:48 [bgaraventa1979]: zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
17:04:48 [Zakim]: ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
17:05:33 [jamesn]: scribeNick:jamesn
17:05:50 [jamesn]: agenda?
17:06:04 [jamesn]: TOPIC: Thanks to task force for ARIA 1.0
17:06:20 [jamesn]: RS: has become like Kleenex in the a11y space
17:06:38 [jamesn]: RS: glad we got it out
17:06:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/aria.html.en
17:07:17 [jamesn]: RS: waiting on hackathon results
17:07:27 [jamesn]: RS: Comcast using ARIA in their STB which is cool
17:08:04 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
17:08:14 [jamesn]: RS: want to thank Janina and everyone for putting the special aknowledgements in
17:08:26 [jamesn]: RS: back to work
17:08:41 [jamesn]: RS: first thing want to talk briefly on the UAIG
17:08:54 [Zakim]: +[Apple]
17:08:57 [jamesn]: RS: we have eager people so how soon can we get the coordination going
17:08:58 [clown]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/
17:09:09 [jongund]: I will be back in a minute
17:09:17 [clown]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_role_table
17:09:19 [jamesn]: MC: first want to start a conversation with the editors and get questions about the source format done
17:09:31 [mattking]: mattking has joined #aria
17:09:39 [jamesn]: MC: ready to start that soon. That will help us decide how easy it will be to divide the docs up
17:10:13 [jamesn]: MC: then would come to the structural discussion. Made some progress a the F2F but still have some work to do
17:10:17 [mattking]: anyone else having trouble with conf bridge?
17:10:39 [jamesn]: MC: can getr to a place where we have preliminerary docs within a month. For now clown and JC can work on the existing docs
17:11:07 [jcraig]: jcraig has joined #aria
17:11:10 [jamesn]: RS: want to get some decisions before I go on vacation
17:11:20 [Zakim]: + +1.541.678.aaaa
17:11:24 [jamesn]: RS: we have a very agressive schedule. every day we lose is a problem
17:11:46 [jamesn]: MC: us having not completely solidifed this doesn't stop you starting work
17:12:10 [jamesn]: RS: I dopn't like duplicating work. are we going to use github, will it be respec etc.
17:12:16 [jcraig]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
17:12:16 [Zakim]: On the phone I see janina, Bryan_Garaventa, James_Nurthen, joanie, Jon_Gunderson, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, [Microsoft], [Apple], +1.541.678.aaaa
17:12:21 [jamesn]: MC: want to revisit some decisions with the editors
17:12:35 [jamesn]: RS: we also need Steve in the conversations
17:12:55 [jamesn]: JC: we don't need to move all of the documents over
17:13:07 [jamesn]: JS: should deal with our own docs first
17:13:13 [jcraig]: Zakim, Apple has jcraig
17:13:13 [Zakim]: +jcraig; got it
17:13:22 [jamesn]: MC: we have never even sorted out if we want to take the HTML5 document over
17:13:36 [jamesn]: JS: I think we did. Maybe we need to log a resolution
17:14:03 [jamesn]: JS: I thinnk it would be a TF deliverable that is joint with HTML and PF
17:14:25 [jamesn]: MC: need to make sure we have the same decision with the SVG WG
17:14:29 [jcraig]: Zakim, aaaa is mattking
17:14:29 [Zakim]: +mattking; got it
17:14:46 [jamesn]: MC: I don;ty think the format matters at this stage. It would mostly be copy/paste
17:14:56 [jamesn]: MC: doesn't have to stop you getting started
17:15:06 [mattking]: bend, OR
17:15:07 [jamesn]: RS: I would really like to make a decision
17:15:20 [jamesn]: RS: I was asking can we have a meeting b4 i go on vacation
17:15:43 [jamesn]: clown: I have a standing meeting at 1 EST on Wed. Could we use that
17:16:10 [jamesn]: s/EST/EDT/
17:16:24 [clown]: #pf-editors
17:16:29 [jamesn]: MC: has been some time since we have used it
17:17:37 [jamesn]: MC: will send a starter email to the relevant people
17:18:14 [jamesn]: <debate on meeting time>
17:18:43 [jamesn]: JC: can't speak as to how easy it is to break the document up using respec
17:19:02 [jamesn]: JC: I almost always reference the single page document
17:19:20 [jamesn]: JC: anecdotaly i don't see much benefit splitting up the document
17:19:30 [jamesn]: JC: It is not super long like HTML5
17:19:45 [jamesn]: MC: lets get a proposal and then bring it back to the group
17:20:06 [jamesn]: MC: hopefully can have a proposal by next monday and then can start thinking about the break up of the moduls
17:20:37 [jamesn]: MC: will then maybe be able to resume that discussion. My sense we haven't fully agreed where the modules will be broken up
17:20:44 [jamesn]: MC: I think we can start that
17:21:18 [jamesn]: MC: should also include steve and mark + PF editors
17:21:47 [jamesn]: TOPIC: process discussion. Domininc has been looking at ewb components.
17:22:01 [jamesn]: RS: with web components cannot reference content within web components
17:22:02 [MichaelC]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Mar/0078.html
17:22:19 [MichaelC]: regrets: Stefan_Schnabel
17:22:20 [jcraig]: q+
17:22:29 [jamesn]: RS: wants to propose an effort which would allow aria-activedescendent to reference something in the sub DOM
17:22:54 [jamesn]: RS: what is the process for doing this? I don't know if there is precedence
17:23:09 [jamesn]: RS: we want to encourage people to do additional work to expand on the docs
17:23:16 [jamesn]: JC: when and how did he mention this?
17:23:31 [jamesn]: RS: was in conversation with me in the Google room at CSUN
17:23:54 [jamesn]: JC: have him send what he is thinking about to one of the lists or get it in bug tracker somehow
17:24:19 [jamesn]: JC: I added a response to the agenda for this topic as we have been thinking about this for a while
17:24:36 [jamesn]: JC: It could be possible to get to shadow dom using vvarious selectors
17:24:47 [jamesn]: JS: lets clear up the process soncerns
17:25:01 [jamesn]: RS: not the technical issue i am concerned about but the process
17:25:29 [jamesn]: MC: 1st of all web components is a w3c technology - I would not expect to corrdinate directly with WHATWG
17:26:29 [jamesn]: MC: on the basis of JC comments. One could be a question of how you would support it. We could come back with a proposal etc. 2nd is looking at a corrdination request and if so wouyld need to open up a channel with the web apps group
17:26:48 [jamesn]: MC: I think we should do this with the relevant W3C groups
17:27:06 [jamesn]: RS: He made no mention of doing things with the web apps group
17:27:08 [jcraig]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Mar/0080.html
17:27:08 [bgaraventa1979]: Is this related to spanning document objects? E.G reference a node in an iframe document from a parent document using aria-activedescendant? If not, it might be good to think about too
17:28:59 [jamesn]: RS: that would not work. would have to find a way around that.
17:29:26 [jamesn]: JC: I think BG is proposing that the solution could include a solution for that
17:29:49 [jamesn]: JC: shadow DOM components are like a mini iframe but it executes in the same domain and process.
17:30:08 [jamesn]: JC: IFrames would have potential security risks and performance issues
17:30:43 [jamesn]: RS: he didn't mention iframes
17:30:50 [jamesn]: RS: I'll send a note to the list
17:30:58 [jcraig]: s/IFrames would have potential security risks/cross-domain references could have potential security risks/
17:31:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Mar/0071.html
17:31:25 [jamesn]: TOPIC: Meaty issues
17:32:06 [MichaelC]: action-1397?
17:32:06 [trackbot]: action-1397 -- Jon Gunderson to Create proposal to fill out aria semantics (tooter, rowspan, colspan, thead, caption, etc.) -- due 2014-03-10 -- OPEN
17:32:06 [trackbot]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1397
17:32:11 [jamesn]: JG: went through the HTML spec and looked at the table stuff and tried to map the aria roles into a format that would work in the aria spec
17:32:18 [jcraig]: q+
17:32:55 [jamesn]: JG: about 10 new roles
17:33:01 [jamesn]: JG: about 4 new properties
17:33:53 [janina]: q+ To ask about Table Summary ... Should we use ARIA-DescribedAt on Tables to restore Table Summary?
17:33:59 [jcraig]: ack me
17:34:00 [jamesn]: JC: I think we can do it with 2 or 3 more roles
17:34:14 [jamesn]: JC: need table. Grid should be a sub class of table
17:34:20 [jamesn]: JC: I don;t think we need cpation
17:34:34 [jamesn]: JC: col and colgroup I'm not sure we need. perhaps can come back to them
17:34:49 [jamesn]: JC: TR and TH we have with row and row and col headers
17:35:13 [jamesn]: JC: TD we currently have as gridcell. Had proposed to add a cell role and gridcell becomes a synonym for grid
17:35:33 [jamesn]: JC: tables would be the same as grids except would use a table role.
17:35:46 [mattking]: q+
17:35:58 [jamesn]: JC: don't need aria-headers as aria-labelledby
17:36:00 [richardschwerdtfeger]: q?
17:36:07 [jamesn]: JG: headers is different from labelledby
17:36:17 [jcraig]: roles: table, cell.
17:36:23 [jamesn]: JG: if you use the currenty algorithm it replaces the text
17:36:47 [jamesn]: JC: we need that the cell should calculate its value from its contents not its label
17:37:01 [richardschwerdtfeger]: q?
17:37:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]: ack janina
17:37:14 [Zakim]: janina, you wanted to ask about Table Summary ... Should we use ARIA-DescribedAt on Tables to restore Table Summary?
17:37:23 [jcraig]: attributes: aria-colspan and aria-rowspan
17:37:28 [jamesn]: JS: missing from the list in my estimation is whatever we need to do to restore table summary
17:37:39 [jamesn]: JS: had looked at describedat to be allowed
17:38:00 [jamesn]: JS: describedby or describedat would be used for summary
17:38:05 [richardschwerdtfeger]: q?
17:38:06 [jcraig]: I think these roles are already covered in ARIA 1.0: caption, tbody, thead, tfoot, tr, td. th
17:38:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]: ack mattking
17:38:33 [jamesn]: MK: was looking from an inheritance perspective and see that column headers has section headers apparent
17:38:42 [jamesn]: MK: tables will be structure whereas grid is a widget
17:38:50 [jcraig]: these attrs are already covered in aria 1.0 aria-headers (via labelledby), aria-scope (via columnheader, rowheader roles)
17:38:59 [jamesn]: MK: do we run into anything if we use columnheader in a structural table
17:39:11 [clown]: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#row
17:39:14 [jamesn]: JG: this is why i proposed new roles due to the inheritance
17:39:29 [jamesn]: MK: we need to look at things like selection etc.
17:40:38 [jamesn]: MK: how do you represent the difference in inheritance depending on the context
17:40:56 [jamesn]: RS: the local descriptions - will have to pick certain attributes which are not inherited
17:42:00 [jamesn]: RS: what we don't currently do in 1.0 is say that a specific state or property is not inherited. Am going to want to do that with the localised role descriptioin. It is related to the table topic aS we may need the saME SOLTUion for tables
17:42:00 [jcraig]: s/local/localized role/
17:42:58 [jamesn]: MK: the role of one of the parents determines things. If you are a cell within a role within a grid then you may be different than if you are within a table.
17:43:16 [jamesn]: CS: I am also worried from an implementation perspective
17:43:49 [jcraig]: s/local descriptions/localized role descriptions/
17:43:49 [jamesn]: MK: I hate having dups in the spec but my gut reaction is that we may be better to have different roles as it may make implementation less expensive
17:44:00 [jcraig]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:44:00 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/24-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:45:01 [jamesn]: JC: If you put role of grid on a table then you don't have to put roles on the th and td etc
17:46:04 [jamesn]: JC: one of the things that bugged me about the current spec is that we use html tag name ONLY for IMG. I don't think we want to do that for these. Role of TH and TR are not my first choice especially as we have row etc.
17:46:39 [jamesn]: JC: we would have row and gridrow etc. in 1.0 row is specific to grid and to keep the 1.0 convention would have to change that
17:46:56 [jamesn]: MK: you could have a conformance checker for that kind of thing
17:47:26 [jamesn]: MK: could change requried context for row and that could get a conformance checker to find those issues
17:47:42 [jamesn]: JC: we would potentially make 1.1 not backwrads compatible
17:48:10 [jcraig]: role="gridrow row"
17:48:28 [joanie]: q+ to say that a minor release should be backwards compatible with the major release it came from
17:48:34 [jamesn]: JC: would work with the current 1.0 fallback mechanism
17:48:38 [jcraig]: ack joan
17:48:38 [Zakim]: joanie, you wanted to say that a minor release should be backwards compatible with the major release it came from
17:49:03 [jamesn]: RS: I don't want to break what we have
17:49:27 [jamesn]: JC: I think the fallback role would allow it to be backwards compatible
17:49:44 [joanie]: q+ to propose data-row
17:50:01 [jamesn]: JC: this would work in 1.0 capable browsers
17:50:10 [jamesn]: RS: here is the other thing
17:50:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]: role=“gridrow”
17:50:30 [jamesn]: RS: would have roe=gridrow. On a TR that would default to row too
17:50:57 [jamesn]: MK: what happens in the HTML mappings as html doesn't have gridrow or gridcell
17:51:34 [jamesn]: MK: if you have implied roles then would everything have to be explicit inside it. would a TR in a grid context automaTICALLY IMply a grid context
17:51:47 [jamesn]: JC: i think the HTML5 a11y mapping document can specify that
17:52:03 [jamesn]: JC: we have somoe prose in the spec which details this scenario for tables and lists
17:52:10 [richardschwerdtfeger]: s/roe/row/
17:52:18 [jamesn]: JC: we won't getg it for free but I think we can make it work
17:53:35 [jamesn]: MK: in the spec wouldn't have to worry about this multiple inheritance. but if you are a browser manufacturer you would have to consider the context of cells before mapping to roles. ut now I think about it the a11y apis don't have any distinction bewteen 2 kinds of cells
17:54:23 [jamesn]: JC: but they know how to expoise the cells based on the context. Most of the heavy lifting in the browser. depending on properites on cells the AT can know more about it
17:54:45 [jamesn]: JC: in the grand scheme it is trivial to remap based on its context in the rendered tree
17:55:25 [jamesn]: JC: not convinced we need it but if it makes it easier for us then ok. But may be worth doing the spec work if it makes it easier for authors
17:55:45 [jamesn]: RS: I think the contextual piece would be a better way of doing this.
17:56:04 [bgaraventa1979]: +q
17:56:27 [MichaelC]: ack me
17:57:06 [MichaelC]: zakim, mute me
17:57:06 [Zakim]: Michael_Cooper should now be muted
17:57:36 [jamesn]: JC: I think we can take JG proposal. col and colgroup are what I am not sure about
17:58:12 [jamesn]: JC: I think it is just used for styling. I think there are perhaps some other contexts. Can probably get away with just table and cell
17:58:25 [jamesn]: JC: would either keep it or keep it as an alias
17:58:44 [jamesn]: JG: there are some default algorithms to figure out headers
17:58:54 [jamesn]: JC: already have columnheader and rowheader
17:59:34 [jamesn]: JG: do you need the new properties
17:59:48 [jamesn]: JC: I think colspan and rowspan are necessary in some form
18:00:07 [jamesn]: RS: do we need scope?
18:00:09 [jamesn]: q?
18:00:12 [joanie]: q-
18:00:13 [jamesn]: q+
18:00:25 [Zakim]: + +1.512.445.aabb
18:01:10 [bgaraventa1979]: only one concern for me regarding having different roles between table roles vs grid roles, in that authors may mix incorrectly. Just something to keep in mind, not sure if it's relevant.
18:01:25 [jamesn]: JN: other values for scope colgroup and rowgroup
18:01:40 [jamesn]: q-
18:02:13 [Zakim]: +Cynthia_Shelly
18:02:20 [bgaraventa1979]: -q
18:04:15 [jamesn]: JN: not always possible to rework tables sometimes very complex like pivot tables
18:04:23 [Zakim]: - +1.512.445.aabb
18:04:27 [jamesn]: JC: lets see if we can make it work without scope
18:06:25 [jamesn]: JN: would be nice if you could mix and match the headers and scoping mechanism
18:06:51 [jcraig]: s/lets see if we can make it work without scope/lets see if we can make it work without scope b/c we have row/colheader roles and we're adding rowspan/colspan attrs/
18:07:48 [jamesn]: JC: 2 actions. to make sure the value computation works in the spec
18:07:54 [jamesn]: JC: seems like an oversight\
18:08:23 [jcraig]: ACTION: spec value computation for table cells and grid cells (make sure label and labelledby don't trample the cell contents)
18:08:23 [trackbot]: Error finding 'spec'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
18:09:08 [jamesn]: JC: 2nd one is to add role for table and cell and the attributes for colspan and rowspan
18:09:58 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
18:10:37 [jcraig]: ACTION: add table/cell roles, rowspan/colspan attrs, related taxonomy changes, and suggestions for HTML mapping document
18:10:37 [trackbot]: Error finding 'add'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
18:11:12 [clown]: q+ to point out that in html5.1 mapping guide, <table> has no mapping.
18:11:20 [jamesn]: MK: there is a scenario where aria-label on a column header should trample the contents
18:11:30 [jamesn]: MK: like using abbr on a column header
18:11:42 [jamesn]: good point MK
18:12:12 [jcraig]: action: jcraig to spec value computation for table cells and grid cells (make sure label and labelledby don't trample the cell contents)
18:12:12 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-1402 - Spec value computation for table cells and grid cells (make sure label and labelledby don't trample the cell contents) [on James Craig - due 2014-03-31].
18:12:27 [jcraig]: ACTION: jcraig to add table/cell roles, rowspan/colspan attrs, related taxonomy changes, and suggestions for HTML mapping document
18:12:27 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-1403 - Add table/cell roles, rowspan/colspan attrs, related taxonomy changes, and suggestions for html mapping document [on James Craig - due 2014-03-31].
18:12:34 [jamesn]: MK: want screen reader users to be able to hear something brief. So on a column header or row header then aria-label should override in the label of the cell in the table but not when reading the actual row or column header
18:12:49 [jamesn]: JC: the abbr attribute on TH
18:13:07 [jamesn]: MK: I'm thinking the equivalent would be aria-label on a columnheader
18:13:16 [jamesn]: JC: will have to think about that for a while
18:13:53 [jamesn]: JC: if we used aria-label there would seem like strange behaviour to return one thing in one place. I don't think aria-label is the right chocie
18:14:11 [jamesn]: mk: we should have a way of doing that with aria markup
18:14:26 [jcraig]: <th abbr="Date">Date of Service</th>
18:15:19 [jcraig]: <div role="columnheader" aria-label="Date">Date of Service</div>
18:15:39 [jamesn]: MK: yes that is what I was proposing
18:15:47 [jamesn]: JC: strikes me as strange
18:15:55 [jamesn]: JC: seems like we could do it.
18:16:11 [jamesn]: JN: would it be easier to add a new property
18:16:19 [jamesn]: JC: thinking it may be
18:16:33 [jamesn]: JC: will write a new action for this one
18:17:02 [jcraig]: ACTION: jcraig to investigate ARIA equivalent of html:th@abbr <th abbr="Date">Date of Service</th>
18:17:02 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-1404 - Investigate aria equivalent of html:th@abbr <th abbr="date">date of service</th> [on James Craig - due 2014-03-31].
18:17:50 [clown]: ack me
18:17:50 [Zakim]: Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to point out that in html5.1 mapping guide, <table> has no mapping.
18:18:25 [clown]: http://rawgithub.com/w3c/html-api-map/master/index.html#el-table
18:19:08 [jamesn]: JC: this will help with that mapping
18:20:38 [richardschwerdtfeger]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/526
18:20:44 [jcraig]: issue-526?
18:20:44 [trackbot]: issue-526 -- Allow non-global states and properties to be used without an explicit ARIA role, when the element has an implict ARIA semantic corresponding to an appropriate role - ARIA 1.1 -- open
18:20:44 [trackbot]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/526
18:20:44 [jamesn]: ISSUE-526?
18:20:45 [trackbot]: ISSUE-526 -- Allow non-global states and properties to be used without an explicit ARIA role, when the element has an implict ARIA semantic corresponding to an appropriate role - ARIA 1.1 -- open
18:20:45 [trackbot]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/526
18:21:17 [jamesn]: RS: do we state that yet?
18:21:35 [jamesn]: JC: If there is no action item then I probably haevn't done it yet
18:21:49 [jamesn]: JC: I know that the html document allows this
18:22:09 [jamesn]: JC: don't know if referencing something in our spec or not
18:22:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]: Action: jcraig for Issue-526 modify spec. to allow non-global roles to apply to host language elements having the correct ARIA semantics
18:23:00 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-1405 - For issue-526 modify spec. to allow non-global roles to apply to host language elements having the correct aria semantics [on James Craig - due 2014-03-31].
18:23:31 [jcraig]: action-1405
18:23:31 [trackbot]: action-1405 -- James Craig to For issue-526 modify spec. to allow non-global roles to apply to host language elements having the correct aria semantics -- due 2014-03-31 -- OPEN
18:23:31 [trackbot]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1405
18:23:59 [jcraig]: rrsagent, associate action-1405 with issue-526
18:23:59 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'associate action-1405 with issue-526', jcraig. Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:24:14 [MichaelC]: ack me
18:24:18 [jcraig]: trackbot, associate action-1405 with issue-526
18:24:18 [trackbot]: action-1405 (For issue-526 modify spec. to allow non-global roles to apply to host language elements having the correct aria semantics) associated with issue-526.
18:24:26 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
18:25:17 [jcraig]: zakim, close issue-526
18:25:17 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'close issue-526', jcraig
18:25:27 [jcraig]: trackbot close issue-526
18:25:27 [trackbot]: Closed issue-526.
18:25:32 [clown]: issue-605?
18:25:32 [trackbot]: issue-605 -- menuitem role does not allow use of aria-selected -- open
18:25:32 [trackbot]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/605
18:25:38 [jamesn]: ISSUE-605?
18:25:38 [trackbot]: ISSUE-605 -- menuitem role does not allow use of aria-selected -- open
18:25:38 [trackbot]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/605
18:26:30 [jamesn]: MK: confusing selection and focus
18:26:44 [jamesn]: JD: can't highlight a button
18:27:10 [jamesn]: JD: if you tab to a button it gets a dashed rectangle. there is a selection thing
18:27:19 [jamesn]: MK: underneath it is just focus not selection
18:27:35 [jamesn]: JC: selection in main menus changes based on different events
18:27:47 [jamesn]: JC: it is different from regular focus
18:28:27 [jamesn]: JC: It changes the selection state based on me moving over it which is not the same as focus. It is like focus if only using keybaord or hover if only using mouse
18:28:52 [jamesn]: MK: i would hate to be seeing everyone having to put aria-selected on menuitems when it is not necessary
18:29:10 [jamesn]: RS: could say that selection follows focus if aria-selected isn't sepficied
18:29:25 [jamesn]: JC: i'll ook for the wording
18:29:30 [clown]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation-1.1/#mapping_events_selection
18:30:56 [Zakim]: -James_Nurthen
18:31:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]: RRSAgent, make log public
18:31:13 [richardschwerdtfeger]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:31:13 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/24-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
18:31:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]: chair: Rich
18:31:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]: meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
18:31:34 [richardschwerdtfeger]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:31:34 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/24-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
18:31:58 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
18:32:01 [jcraig]: Action: add any necessary language for issue-605 (aria-selected on menuitem and subroles), and reference UAIG #mapping_events_selection
18:32:02 [trackbot]: Error finding 'add'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
18:32:11 [jcraig]: Action: jcraig to add any necessary language for issue-605 (aria-selected on menuitem and subroles), and reference UAIG #mapping_events_selection
18:32:12 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-1406 - Add any necessary language for issue-605 (aria-selected on menuitem and subroles), and reference uaig #mapping_events_selection [on James Craig - due 2014-03-31].
18:32:37 [jcraig]: trackbot associate issue-605 with action-1406
18:32:37 [trackbot]: action-1406 (Add any necessary language for issue-605 (aria-selected on menuitem and subroles), and reference uaig #mapping_events_selection) associated with issue-605.
18:32:49 [jcraig]: trackbot, close issue-605
18:32:49 [trackbot]: Closed issue-605.
18:32:54 [richardschwerdtfeger]: zakim, bye
18:32:54 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were janina, Bryan_Garaventa, James_Nurthen, joanie, Jon_Gunderson, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper, [Microsoft],
18:32:54 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #aria
18:32:57 [Zakim]: ... +1.541.678.aaaa, jcraig, mattking, +1.512.445.aabb, Cynthia_Shelly
18:32:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]: RRSAgent, make minutes
18:32:59 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/24-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
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