IRC log of dpub on 2014-03-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:04:44 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-dpub-irc
14:04:46 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:04:46 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dpub
14:04:48 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be dpub
14:04:48 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 56 minutes
14:04:49 [trackbot]
Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:04:49 [trackbot]
Date: 10 March 2014
14:05:01 [ivan]
karen, you can dial in now
14:05:06 [ivan]
oops, wrong channel
14:28:57 [dauwhe__]
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DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
14:56:29 [mgylling]
mgylling has changed the topic to: Code: 3782
14:56:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.646.336.aaaa
14:57:11 [Julie__BISG]
Julie__BISG has joined #dpub
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+[IPcaller]
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+??P10
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tzviya has joined #dpub
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+ +1.212.364.aabb
14:57:59 [mgylling]
Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:58:00 [Zakim]
+mgylling; got it
14:58:06 [Vlad]
zakim, IPcaller is me
14:58:06 [Zakim]
+Vlad; got it
14:58:09 [mgylling]
Zakim, at least I hope so
14:58:09 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'at least I hope so', mgylling
14:58:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.917.207.aacc
14:58:44 [dauwhe__]
Zakim, aacc is dauwhe
14:58:44 [Zakim]
+dauwhe; got it
14:58:59 [Zakim]
+Tzviya
14:59:21 [gcapiel]
gcapiel has joined #dpub
15:00:01 [Zakim]
+Stearns
15:00:02 [Zakim]
+??P24
15:00:21 [gcapiel]
Zakim, ??P24 is me
15:00:21 [Zakim]
+gcapiel; got it
15:00:24 [liza]
liza has joined #dpub
15:00:51 [tzviya]
scribe: tzviya
15:00:59 [Zakim]
+ +1.505.665.aadd
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azaroth has joined #DPUB
15:01:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.453.aaee
15:01:45 [liza]
zakim, aaee is me
15:01:45 [Zakim]
+liza; got it
15:01:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.734.904.aaff
15:01:53 [Bill_Kasdorf]
Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
15:01:58 [azaroth]
zakim, who is here
15:02:00 [Zakim]
+Ivan
15:02:00 [Zakim]
azaroth, you need to end that query with '?'
15:02:03 [azaroth]
zakim, who is here?
15:02:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.646.336.aaaa, Vlad, mgylling, +1.212.364.aabb, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, +1.505.665.aadd, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan
15:02:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot, liam
15:02:11 [azaroth]
zakim, aadd is me
15:02:11 [Zakim]
+azaroth; got it
15:02:13 [Zakim]
+[GVoice]
15:02:29 [Zakim]
+Bert
15:02:32 [Bert]
Bert has joined #dpub
15:02:39 [dauwhe__]
Zakim, aabb is philm
15:02:39 [Zakim]
+philm; got it
15:02:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.303.475.aagg
15:02:49 [fjh]
fjh has joined #dpub
15:03:19 [ivan]
zakim, aaaa is Julie__BISG
15:03:19 [Zakim]
+Julie__BISG; got it
15:03:21 [azaroth]
zakim, who is here?
15:03:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Julie__BISG, Vlad, mgylling, philm, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, azaroth, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan, [GVoice], Bert, +1.303.475.aagg
15:03:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fjh, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot,
15:03:25 [Zakim]
... liam
15:03:25 [fjh]
Regrets: Frederick_Hirsch
15:03:38 [ivan]
zakim, aagg is Casey
15:03:38 [Zakim]
+Casey; got it
15:03:53 [ivan]
zakim, aaff is Bill_Kasdorf
15:03:53 [Zakim]
+Bill_Kasdorf; got it
15:03:58 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
15:03:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Julie__BISG, Vlad, mgylling, philm, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, azaroth, liza, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan, [GVoice], Bert, Casey
15:03:59 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fjh, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot,
15:04:01 [Zakim]
... liam
15:04:29 [Zakim]
+??P16
15:04:31 [tzviya]
markus: minutes http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-03-03.html
15:04:39 [tzviya]
approved
15:04:49 [karen]
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15:05:05 [tm]
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15:05:15 [tzviya]
markus: ask generally about annotations publication status?
15:05:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.609.216.aahh
15:05:37 [tzviya]
ivan: it should publish on thursday, would be good if one of chairs bloged about it
15:05:45 [tzviya]
markus: yes, we will
15:06:12 [Zakim]
+Karen_Myers
15:06:18 [Zakim]
+ +33.1.43.92.aaii
15:06:28 [ivan]
zakim, aaii is Luc
15:06:28 [Zakim]
+Luc; got it
15:06:55 [brady_duga]
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15:06:57 [tzviya]
Dauwhe: can write about latinreq as well
15:07:58 [mgylling]
zakim, aahh is Laura Fowler
15:07:59 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aahh is Laura Fowler', mgylling
15:08:09 [Luc]
Luc has joined #dpub
15:08:12 [ivan]
zakim, aahh is laura
15:08:12 [Zakim]
+laura; got it
15:08:40 [Zakim]
+duga
15:08:46 [dauwhe__]
q+
15:08:47 [tzviya]
markus: potential for F2F in California in Oct 27 - 31
15:09:23 [tzviya]
...it will not be the whole week, just beginning or end of week
15:09:41 [tzviya]
...we must officially register with W3C whether we want to schedule time at TPAC
15:10:21 [tzviya]
Thierry: perhaps open poll whether this is mon/tue or Thu/Fri
15:10:33 [tzviya]
Action: Thierry open poll
15:10:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-17 - Open poll [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-03-17].
15:10:45 [dauwhe__]
q-
15:11:02 [tzviya]
markus: annotation and latinreq moving to first draft and in good state
15:11:24 [tzviya]
...we missed out on talking about Math and STEM with Jean
15:11:43 [tzviya]
...Jean has had to leave the group at least temporarily
15:11:49 [karen]
http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
15:11:56 [tzviya]
...so, the group is without a lead for now
15:12:25 [tzviya]
...We are now looking at the groups to see how we can move forward remaining TFs
15:12:36 [tzviya]
...There are 2 problems with our groups
15:12:44 [tzviya]
...not enough resources (yet)
15:13:11 [tzviya]
...and the organization of TFs might not be very good
15:13:29 [tzviya]
...what can we do to make sure we get moving with other groups?
15:14:03 [tzviya]
...suggestion is to look at entries and assess how to move things forward
15:14:04 [mgylling]
q?
15:14:30 [ivan]
-> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces list of task forces
15:14:58 [tzviya]
...the opportunity we have to get digital pub working with OWP is a great one
15:15:10 [tzviya]
...we owe it to ourselves and the community
15:15:11 [karen]
q+
15:15:19 [mgylling]
ack karen
15:15:24 [dauwhe__]
q+
15:16:01 [tzviya]
karen: ivan and i have been working with many organizations and publishers. we are starting to see some renewed interest from software service providers
15:16:18 [tzviya]
...not as much from trade publishers
15:16:28 [tzviya]
...the education market wants to do more
15:16:51 [tzviya]
...if anyone else on call has any resources for Karen to reach out to, please let her know
15:17:18 [tzviya]
...if there is anyone non-tech to reach out to (tech gets it), then let karen know
15:18:00 [mgylling]
ack dauwhe
15:18:47 [tzviya]
dave: going back to organization of TFs - it might be helpful to have fewer, broader TFs
15:18:53 [liza]
+1
15:19:31 [tzviya]
...one set of principles revolves around appearance (layout and DOM), another revolves around communicating with system
15:20:42 [tzviya]
liza: we set ourselves up to fail with topics like "metadata" which is too big. we might want to focus on specific aspects of metadata
15:21:05 [tzviya]
...we might want to focus on requests from publishers (what they want to do now in publications)
15:21:29 [tzviya]
...and also focus on requests from reading systems (what they want to do in reading systems dev)
15:22:14 [tzviya]
markus: broader categories such as appearance, and then others are sub-categories
15:22:43 [tzviya]
...but this might be counter productive, because we don't have a clear missive
15:23:43 [Bill_Kasdorf]
q+
15:23:50 [mgylling]
ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:24:02 [tzviya]
liza: categorizing use cases makes sense, especially if fall into buckets that make sense to W3C world (presentation, markup, etc)
15:24:05 [Zakim]
+madi
15:24:19 [madi]
madi has joined #dpub
15:25:18 [Luc]
q+
15:25:51 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: liza's suggestion of just focusing on what there is demand for from OWP might help guide discussion, otherwise becomes unweildy
15:25:56 [mgylling]
ack Luc
15:27:23 [Bill_Kasdorf]
q+
15:27:42 [tzviya]
Luc: point of view of publishers is good, but my global feeling is that we need help from W3C for wider viewpoint, otherwise this is not different from IDPF
15:27:55 [mgylling]
ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:27:56 [azaroth]
q+
15:27:59 [ivan]
ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:29:26 [ivan]
q+
15:29:33 [mgylling]
ack azaroth
15:29:40 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: How do we get the right people on these groups? There has been a reluctance for organizations to join W3C/commit time, but we can consult with them when we have drafts
15:29:59 [tzviya]
azaroth: I don't think this is about differentiating from IDPF
15:30:45 [tzviya]
...publishing notes first as drafts is a good way to bring in feedback. Not as daunting as joining a committee
15:31:05 [mgylling]
ack ivan
15:31:12 [tzviya]
markus: yes, good point. But, how do we get to drafts?
15:31:42 [tzviya]
ivan: i don't see any problem with reaching out to others outside of W3C for feedback
15:32:10 [tzviya]
...We are missing a clear goal for what each TF intends to do
15:32:39 [tzviya]
+1
15:33:26 [tzviya]
Ivan: We now have a goal for behavioral UI, so it is likely that we will end up with something specific
15:33:43 [tzviya]
...for other TFs, we should formalize goals
15:35:19 [tzviya]
...example - it could be a goal of a11y TF to review existing documentation and determine if they are fully compliant and what changes need to be made
15:35:29 [tzviya]
markus: these should be short-term goals?
15:35:40 [tzviya]
ivan: we need to define what we should produce
15:35:40 [Bill_Kasdorf]
q+
15:35:57 [tzviya]
markus: i've gleaned 2 things
15:36:36 [tzviya]
...1st is a partial reorg of TFs, some stand by themselves, but others may need to be combined
15:37:31 [tzviya]
...2nd is to produce and document a short-term focus and goals
15:38:11 [tzviya]
Gerardo: thinking about goals for a11y short-term goals
15:38:48 [tzviya]
...not sure if reviewing documentation would be a fruitful goal for this TF based on history with browsers
15:38:58 [tzviya]
markus: there may be other goals
15:39:14 [tzviya]
...what are we delivering next?
15:40:06 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: we can produce short-term goals for metadata, will talk to madi
15:40:12 [ivan]
ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:41:11 [tzviya]
...this group talks about book publishing exclusively, no magazines, no journals. are we in position to get info from other fields?
15:41:40 [tzviya]
markus: we can only work with what we have.
15:42:10 [tzviya]
...Regarding metadata, we had a concrete goal to describe current problems of publishers
15:42:28 [tzviya]
...until we have that, I would hesitate to go further
15:42:41 [Zakim]
-duga
15:43:06 [ivan]
q+
15:43:46 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: none of the people that I would talk to about publishers are in this group
15:44:12 [tzviya]
markus: bring this list of people to W3C staff and start there
15:45:25 [tzviya]
q+
15:45:50 [madi]
Graham Bell is the Exec. Director of EDitEUR
15:46:01 [Luc]
I confirm
15:46:02 [tzviya]
q-
15:47:19 [tzviya]
Ivan: it is perfectly acceptable to gather info from these people and then document within the group
15:47:50 [tzviya]
markus: metadata goal = gathering issues from within publishing of what cannot be done today
15:48:11 [ivan]
ack ivan
15:48:17 [karen]
ack Julie
15:48:43 [tzviya]
Julie_BISG: a lot of TFs overlap with BISG committee work, so we can take work back to those committees
15:49:20 [tzviya]
...we can even include an agenda item to check in on W3C TF
15:50:06 [tzviya]
markus: BISG is a bona fide member of W3C member, so can assign members to W3C in interim
15:50:59 [liza]
Okey-doke
15:51:06 [tzviya]
action: markus, liza, tzviya produce new TF for content-related issues
15:51:06 [trackbot]
Error finding 'markus,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
15:51:35 [azaroth]
Including latinreq and annotation?
15:51:40 [tzviya]
action: all TF leads formulate goals of TF - keep it short
15:51:40 [trackbot]
Error finding 'all'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
15:51:58 [azaroth]
okay :)
15:52:11 [gcapiel]
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15:53:54 [tzviya]
markus: ivan, please create additional column "current goal" on wiki
15:54:51 [tzviya]
markus: page DOM is officially dormant because we are still looking for someone to take it on
15:55:05 [tzviya]
...this could extend to APIs and scripting
15:55:18 [tzviya]
...we will follow up on goals next week
15:55:46 [mgylling]
q?
15:56:04 [Zakim]
-Casey
15:56:13 [Bill_Kasdorf]
q+
15:56:22 [mgylling]
ack Bill
15:56:48 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: still focusing on metadata on 17 Mar?
15:57:18 [tzviya]
markus: yes, but it will be about 10 minutes
15:58:03 [tzviya]
markus: we will rename bahavioral UI this week
15:59:14 [Zakim]
-liza
15:59:15 [Zakim]
-madi
15:59:15 [Zakim]
-mgylling
15:59:16 [Zakim]
-Julie__BISG
15:59:16 [Zakim]
-philm
15:59:17 [Zakim]
-azaroth
15:59:17 [Zakim]
-[GVoice]
15:59:18 [Zakim]
-Luc
15:59:18 [Zakim]
-Karen_Myers
15:59:19 [Zakim]
-Tzviya
15:59:19 [Zakim]
-laura
15:59:19 [Zakim]
-Bill_Kasdorf
15:59:19 [Zakim]
-dauwhe
15:59:21 [Zakim]
-Ivan
15:59:21 [Zakim]
-Vlad
15:59:24 [Zakim]
-Stearns
15:59:26 [Zakim]
-gcapiel
15:59:28 [Zakim]
-Bert
16:02:32 [tm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-dpub-minutes.html tm
16:05:01 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, ??P16, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
16:05:03 [Zakim]
DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
16:05:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.646.336.aaaa, +1.212.364.aabb, mgylling, Vlad, +1.917.207.aacc, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, +1.505.665.aadd, +1.617.453.aaee, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan,
16:05:04 [Zakim]
... azaroth, [GVoice], Bert, philm, +1.303.475.aagg, Julie__BISG, Casey, Bill_Kasdorf, +1.609.216.aahh, Karen_Myers, +33.1.43.92.aaii, Luc, laura, duga, madi
16:10:04 [gcapiel]
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mgylling has joined #dpub
16:58:05 [dauwhe__]
if you're interested in footnote reference marks: http://www.typography.com/blog/house-of-flying-reference-marks
17:34:19 [dauwhe__]
Looks like CSS almost always meets Monday-Tuesday (and often on Sunday) during TPAC (this was true in 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, and 2009).
17:35:54 [dauwhe_]
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