IRC log of dpub on 2014-03-10
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:04:44 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #dpub
- 14:04:44 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-dpub-irc
- 14:04:46 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:04:46 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #dpub
- 14:04:48 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be dpub
- 14:04:48 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 56 minutes
- 14:04:49 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
- 14:04:49 [trackbot]
- Date: 10 March 2014
- 14:05:01 [ivan]
- karen, you can dial in now
- 14:05:06 [ivan]
- oops, wrong channel
- 14:28:57 [dauwhe__]
- dauwhe__ has joined #dpub
- 14:49:26 [mgylling]
- mgylling has joined #dpub
- 14:56:11 [philm]
- philm has joined #dpub
- 14:56:23 [Vlad]
- Vlad has joined #dpub
- 14:56:24 [Zakim]
- DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
- 14:56:29 [mgylling]
- mgylling has changed the topic to: Code: 3782
- 14:56:30 [Zakim]
- + +1.646.336.aaaa
- 14:57:11 [Julie__BISG]
- Julie__BISG has joined #dpub
- 14:57:33 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:57:34 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 14:57:37 [tzviya]
- tzviya has joined #dpub
- 14:57:48 [Zakim]
- + +1.212.364.aabb
- 14:57:59 [mgylling]
- Zakim, ??P10 is me
- 14:58:00 [Zakim]
- +mgylling; got it
- 14:58:06 [Vlad]
- zakim, IPcaller is me
- 14:58:06 [Zakim]
- +Vlad; got it
- 14:58:09 [mgylling]
- Zakim, at least I hope so
- 14:58:09 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'at least I hope so', mgylling
- 14:58:34 [Zakim]
- + +1.917.207.aacc
- 14:58:44 [dauwhe__]
- Zakim, aacc is dauwhe
- 14:58:44 [Zakim]
- +dauwhe; got it
- 14:58:59 [Zakim]
- +Tzviya
- 14:59:21 [gcapiel]
- gcapiel has joined #dpub
- 15:00:01 [Zakim]
- +Stearns
- 15:00:02 [Zakim]
- +??P24
- 15:00:21 [gcapiel]
- Zakim, ??P24 is me
- 15:00:21 [Zakim]
- +gcapiel; got it
- 15:00:24 [liza]
- liza has joined #dpub
- 15:00:51 [tzviya]
- scribe: tzviya
- 15:00:59 [Zakim]
- + +1.505.665.aadd
- 15:01:10 [benjaminsko]
- benjaminsko has joined #dpub
- 15:01:11 [azaroth]
- azaroth has joined #DPUB
- 15:01:35 [Zakim]
- + +1.617.453.aaee
- 15:01:45 [liza]
- zakim, aaee is me
- 15:01:45 [Zakim]
- +liza; got it
- 15:01:47 [Zakim]
- + +1.734.904.aaff
- 15:01:53 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
- 15:01:58 [azaroth]
- zakim, who is here
- 15:02:00 [Zakim]
- +Ivan
- 15:02:00 [Zakim]
- azaroth, you need to end that query with '?'
- 15:02:03 [azaroth]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:02:03 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see +1.646.336.aaaa, Vlad, mgylling, +1.212.364.aabb, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, +1.505.665.aadd, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan
- 15:02:06 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot, liam
- 15:02:11 [azaroth]
- zakim, aadd is me
- 15:02:11 [Zakim]
- +azaroth; got it
- 15:02:13 [Zakim]
- +[GVoice]
- 15:02:29 [Zakim]
- +Bert
- 15:02:32 [Bert]
- Bert has joined #dpub
- 15:02:39 [dauwhe__]
- Zakim, aabb is philm
- 15:02:39 [Zakim]
- +philm; got it
- 15:02:48 [Zakim]
- + +1.303.475.aagg
- 15:02:49 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #dpub
- 15:03:19 [ivan]
- zakim, aaaa is Julie__BISG
- 15:03:19 [Zakim]
- +Julie__BISG; got it
- 15:03:21 [azaroth]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:03:21 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Julie__BISG, Vlad, mgylling, philm, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, azaroth, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan, [GVoice], Bert, +1.303.475.aagg
- 15:03:25 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see fjh, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot,
- 15:03:25 [Zakim]
- ... liam
- 15:03:25 [fjh]
- Regrets: Frederick_Hirsch
- 15:03:38 [ivan]
- zakim, aagg is Casey
- 15:03:38 [Zakim]
- +Casey; got it
- 15:03:53 [ivan]
- zakim, aaff is Bill_Kasdorf
- 15:03:53 [Zakim]
- +Bill_Kasdorf; got it
- 15:03:58 [ivan]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:03:59 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Julie__BISG, Vlad, mgylling, philm, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, azaroth, liza, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan, [GVoice], Bert, Casey
- 15:03:59 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see fjh, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, azaroth, benjaminsko, liza, gcapiel, tzviya, Julie__BISG, Vlad, philm, mgylling, dauwhe__, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns_, plinss, ivan, trackbot,
- 15:04:01 [Zakim]
- ... liam
- 15:04:29 [Zakim]
- +??P16
- 15:04:31 [tzviya]
- markus: minutes http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-03-03.html
- 15:04:39 [tzviya]
- approved
- 15:04:49 [karen]
- karen has joined #dpub
- 15:05:05 [tm]
- tm has joined #dpub
- 15:05:15 [tzviya]
- markus: ask generally about annotations publication status?
- 15:05:18 [Zakim]
- + +1.609.216.aahh
- 15:05:37 [tzviya]
- ivan: it should publish on thursday, would be good if one of chairs bloged about it
- 15:05:45 [tzviya]
- markus: yes, we will
- 15:06:12 [Zakim]
- +Karen_Myers
- 15:06:18 [Zakim]
- + +33.1.43.92.aaii
- 15:06:28 [ivan]
- zakim, aaii is Luc
- 15:06:28 [Zakim]
- +Luc; got it
- 15:06:55 [brady_duga]
- brady_duga has joined #dpub
- 15:06:57 [tzviya]
- Dauwhe: can write about latinreq as well
- 15:07:58 [mgylling]
- zakim, aahh is Laura Fowler
- 15:07:59 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'aahh is Laura Fowler', mgylling
- 15:08:09 [Luc]
- Luc has joined #dpub
- 15:08:12 [ivan]
- zakim, aahh is laura
- 15:08:12 [Zakim]
- +laura; got it
- 15:08:40 [Zakim]
- +duga
- 15:08:46 [dauwhe__]
- q+
- 15:08:47 [tzviya]
- markus: potential for F2F in California in Oct 27 - 31
- 15:09:23 [tzviya]
- ...it will not be the whole week, just beginning or end of week
- 15:09:41 [tzviya]
- ...we must officially register with W3C whether we want to schedule time at TPAC
- 15:10:21 [tzviya]
- Thierry: perhaps open poll whether this is mon/tue or Thu/Fri
- 15:10:33 [tzviya]
- Action: Thierry open poll
- 15:10:33 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-17 - Open poll [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-03-17].
- 15:10:45 [dauwhe__]
- q-
- 15:11:02 [tzviya]
- markus: annotation and latinreq moving to first draft and in good state
- 15:11:24 [tzviya]
- ...we missed out on talking about Math and STEM with Jean
- 15:11:43 [tzviya]
- ...Jean has had to leave the group at least temporarily
- 15:11:49 [karen]
- http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
- 15:11:56 [tzviya]
- ...so, the group is without a lead for now
- 15:12:25 [tzviya]
- ...We are now looking at the groups to see how we can move forward remaining TFs
- 15:12:36 [tzviya]
- ...There are 2 problems with our groups
- 15:12:44 [tzviya]
- ...not enough resources (yet)
- 15:13:11 [tzviya]
- ...and the organization of TFs might not be very good
- 15:13:29 [tzviya]
- ...what can we do to make sure we get moving with other groups?
- 15:14:03 [tzviya]
- ...suggestion is to look at entries and assess how to move things forward
- 15:14:04 [mgylling]
- q?
- 15:14:30 [ivan]
- -> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces list of task forces
- 15:14:58 [tzviya]
- ...the opportunity we have to get digital pub working with OWP is a great one
- 15:15:10 [tzviya]
- ...we owe it to ourselves and the community
- 15:15:11 [karen]
- q+
- 15:15:19 [mgylling]
- ack karen
- 15:15:24 [dauwhe__]
- q+
- 15:16:01 [tzviya]
- karen: ivan and i have been working with many organizations and publishers. we are starting to see some renewed interest from software service providers
- 15:16:18 [tzviya]
- ...not as much from trade publishers
- 15:16:28 [tzviya]
- ...the education market wants to do more
- 15:16:51 [tzviya]
- ...if anyone else on call has any resources for Karen to reach out to, please let her know
- 15:17:18 [tzviya]
- ...if there is anyone non-tech to reach out to (tech gets it), then let karen know
- 15:18:00 [mgylling]
- ack dauwhe
- 15:18:47 [tzviya]
- dave: going back to organization of TFs - it might be helpful to have fewer, broader TFs
- 15:18:53 [liza]
- +1
- 15:19:31 [tzviya]
- ...one set of principles revolves around appearance (layout and DOM), another revolves around communicating with system
- 15:20:42 [tzviya]
- liza: we set ourselves up to fail with topics like "metadata" which is too big. we might want to focus on specific aspects of metadata
- 15:21:05 [tzviya]
- ...we might want to focus on requests from publishers (what they want to do now in publications)
- 15:21:29 [tzviya]
- ...and also focus on requests from reading systems (what they want to do in reading systems dev)
- 15:22:14 [tzviya]
- markus: broader categories such as appearance, and then others are sub-categories
- 15:22:43 [tzviya]
- ...but this might be counter productive, because we don't have a clear missive
- 15:23:43 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q+
- 15:23:50 [mgylling]
- ack Bill_Kasdorf
- 15:24:02 [tzviya]
- liza: categorizing use cases makes sense, especially if fall into buckets that make sense to W3C world (presentation, markup, etc)
- 15:24:05 [Zakim]
- +madi
- 15:24:19 [madi]
- madi has joined #dpub
- 15:25:18 [Luc]
- q+
- 15:25:51 [tzviya]
- Bill_Kasdorf: liza's suggestion of just focusing on what there is demand for from OWP might help guide discussion, otherwise becomes unweildy
- 15:25:56 [mgylling]
- ack Luc
- 15:27:23 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q+
- 15:27:42 [tzviya]
- Luc: point of view of publishers is good, but my global feeling is that we need help from W3C for wider viewpoint, otherwise this is not different from IDPF
- 15:27:55 [mgylling]
- ack Bill_Kasdorf
- 15:27:56 [azaroth]
- q+
- 15:27:59 [ivan]
- ack Bill_Kasdorf
- 15:29:26 [ivan]
- q+
- 15:29:33 [mgylling]
- ack azaroth
- 15:29:40 [tzviya]
- Bill_Kasdorf: How do we get the right people on these groups? There has been a reluctance for organizations to join W3C/commit time, but we can consult with them when we have drafts
- 15:29:59 [tzviya]
- azaroth: I don't think this is about differentiating from IDPF
- 15:30:45 [tzviya]
- ...publishing notes first as drafts is a good way to bring in feedback. Not as daunting as joining a committee
- 15:31:05 [mgylling]
- ack ivan
- 15:31:12 [tzviya]
- markus: yes, good point. But, how do we get to drafts?
- 15:31:42 [tzviya]
- ivan: i don't see any problem with reaching out to others outside of W3C for feedback
- 15:32:10 [tzviya]
- ...We are missing a clear goal for what each TF intends to do
- 15:32:39 [tzviya]
- +1
- 15:33:26 [tzviya]
- Ivan: We now have a goal for behavioral UI, so it is likely that we will end up with something specific
- 15:33:43 [tzviya]
- ...for other TFs, we should formalize goals
- 15:35:19 [tzviya]
- ...example - it could be a goal of a11y TF to review existing documentation and determine if they are fully compliant and what changes need to be made
- 15:35:29 [tzviya]
- markus: these should be short-term goals?
- 15:35:40 [tzviya]
- ivan: we need to define what we should produce
- 15:35:40 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q+
- 15:35:57 [tzviya]
- markus: i've gleaned 2 things
- 15:36:36 [tzviya]
- ...1st is a partial reorg of TFs, some stand by themselves, but others may need to be combined
- 15:37:31 [tzviya]
- ...2nd is to produce and document a short-term focus and goals
- 15:38:11 [tzviya]
- Gerardo: thinking about goals for a11y short-term goals
- 15:38:48 [tzviya]
- ...not sure if reviewing documentation would be a fruitful goal for this TF based on history with browsers
- 15:38:58 [tzviya]
- markus: there may be other goals
- 15:39:14 [tzviya]
- ...what are we delivering next?
- 15:40:06 [tzviya]
- Bill_Kasdorf: we can produce short-term goals for metadata, will talk to madi
- 15:40:12 [ivan]
- ack Bill_Kasdorf
- 15:41:11 [tzviya]
- ...this group talks about book publishing exclusively, no magazines, no journals. are we in position to get info from other fields?
- 15:41:40 [tzviya]
- markus: we can only work with what we have.
- 15:42:10 [tzviya]
- ...Regarding metadata, we had a concrete goal to describe current problems of publishers
- 15:42:28 [tzviya]
- ...until we have that, I would hesitate to go further
- 15:42:41 [Zakim]
- -duga
- 15:43:06 [ivan]
- q+
- 15:43:46 [tzviya]
- Bill_Kasdorf: none of the people that I would talk to about publishers are in this group
- 15:44:12 [tzviya]
- markus: bring this list of people to W3C staff and start there
- 15:45:25 [tzviya]
- q+
- 15:45:50 [madi]
- Graham Bell is the Exec. Director of EDitEUR
- 15:46:01 [Luc]
- I confirm
- 15:46:02 [tzviya]
- q-
- 15:47:19 [tzviya]
- Ivan: it is perfectly acceptable to gather info from these people and then document within the group
- 15:47:50 [tzviya]
- markus: metadata goal = gathering issues from within publishing of what cannot be done today
- 15:48:11 [ivan]
- ack ivan
- 15:48:17 [karen]
- ack Julie
- 15:48:43 [tzviya]
- Julie_BISG: a lot of TFs overlap with BISG committee work, so we can take work back to those committees
- 15:49:20 [tzviya]
- ...we can even include an agenda item to check in on W3C TF
- 15:50:06 [tzviya]
- markus: BISG is a bona fide member of W3C member, so can assign members to W3C in interim
- 15:50:59 [liza]
- Okey-doke
- 15:51:06 [tzviya]
- action: markus, liza, tzviya produce new TF for content-related issues
- 15:51:06 [trackbot]
- Error finding 'markus,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
- 15:51:35 [azaroth]
- Including latinreq and annotation?
- 15:51:40 [tzviya]
- action: all TF leads formulate goals of TF - keep it short
- 15:51:40 [trackbot]
- Error finding 'all'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
- 15:51:58 [azaroth]
- okay :)
- 15:52:11 [gcapiel]
- gcapiel has joined #dpub
- 15:53:54 [tzviya]
- markus: ivan, please create additional column "current goal" on wiki
- 15:54:51 [tzviya]
- markus: page DOM is officially dormant because we are still looking for someone to take it on
- 15:55:05 [tzviya]
- ...this could extend to APIs and scripting
- 15:55:18 [tzviya]
- ...we will follow up on goals next week
- 15:55:46 [mgylling]
- q?
- 15:56:04 [Zakim]
- -Casey
- 15:56:13 [Bill_Kasdorf]
- q+
- 15:56:22 [mgylling]
- ack Bill
- 15:56:48 [tzviya]
- Bill_Kasdorf: still focusing on metadata on 17 Mar?
- 15:57:18 [tzviya]
- markus: yes, but it will be about 10 minutes
- 15:58:03 [tzviya]
- markus: we will rename bahavioral UI this week
- 15:59:14 [Zakim]
- -liza
- 15:59:15 [Zakim]
- -madi
- 15:59:15 [Zakim]
- -mgylling
- 15:59:16 [Zakim]
- -Julie__BISG
- 15:59:16 [Zakim]
- -philm
- 15:59:17 [Zakim]
- -azaroth
- 15:59:17 [Zakim]
- -[GVoice]
- 15:59:18 [Zakim]
- -Luc
- 15:59:18 [Zakim]
- -Karen_Myers
- 15:59:19 [Zakim]
- -Tzviya
- 15:59:19 [Zakim]
- -laura
- 15:59:19 [Zakim]
- -Bill_Kasdorf
- 15:59:19 [Zakim]
- -dauwhe
- 15:59:21 [Zakim]
- -Ivan
- 15:59:21 [Zakim]
- -Vlad
- 15:59:24 [Zakim]
- -Stearns
- 15:59:26 [Zakim]
- -gcapiel
- 15:59:28 [Zakim]
- -Bert
- 16:02:32 [tm]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:02:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/10-dpub-minutes.html tm
- 16:05:01 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, ??P16, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
- 16:05:03 [Zakim]
- DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
- 16:05:03 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.646.336.aaaa, +1.212.364.aabb, mgylling, Vlad, +1.917.207.aacc, dauwhe, Tzviya, Stearns, gcapiel, +1.505.665.aadd, +1.617.453.aaee, liza, +1.734.904.aaff, Ivan,
- 16:05:04 [Zakim]
- ... azaroth, [GVoice], Bert, philm, +1.303.475.aagg, Julie__BISG, Casey, Bill_Kasdorf, +1.609.216.aahh, Karen_Myers, +33.1.43.92.aaii, Luc, laura, duga, madi
- 16:10:04 [gcapiel]
- gcapiel has joined #dpub
- 16:38:16 [mgylling]
- mgylling has joined #dpub
- 16:58:05 [dauwhe__]
- if you're interested in footnote reference marks: http://www.typography.com/blog/house-of-flying-reference-marks
- 17:34:19 [dauwhe__]
- Looks like CSS almost always meets Monday-Tuesday (and often on Sunday) during TPAC (this was true in 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, and 2009).
- 17:35:54 [dauwhe_]
- dauwhe_ has joined #dpub
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- Zakim has left #dpub