See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 17 February 2014
<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Feb/0021.html
<joanie> did an agenda go out?
<jcraig> scribe: jcraog
<MichaelC> scribe: jcraig
<janina> sirc: janina
<janina> scribe: janina
rs: Reporting on Edupub
developments
... Movement on semantic sub team and also graphics sub
team
s/movemeent/movement/
<jcraig> i
mc: Reviewing timeline for
publishing by March 13, if at all possible
... Director review must precede that. This will all be
compressed
... So, all pre by March 7
... So cleanup should be this week
rs: So what to do, and do we need additional calls?
mc: some can be assigned
<MichaelC> ARIA Roadmap
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-primer/
js: Asks whether notes couldn't be published later?
mc: Yes
jc: Docs we refer to do should be permanently available
rs: The Road Map served its purpose. Do we need to pub?
mc: Started on rec track, so it
raises questions: "What happened to it?"
... Might say "We're done and will not finish" and publish as
notes.
... Or, we can do some editing.
jc: Can we mark as obsolete?
mc: Unsure
rs: As a historical document? That's what it is?
mc: Which is one reason for publishing as a note.
jc: Rather do "retired."
mc: Looking I see mostly notes as "retired."
[agreement to seek "retired" status]
mc: So Road Map and Primer to be marked "retired"
js: Notes that Authoring has new editors as of Toronto F2F
<jcraig> better to mark the roadmap and primer as retired than as notes, b/c as notes we'd have to clean them up again before republishing.
mc: Practices says "1.0," do we want to make it versionless?
[agreement]
rs: So retired means we don't need any edits?
mc: Believe so.
... If we edit anything, questions arise why not more, and also
about process
... Concerned about doc load
rs: Well, Authoring eds not in
Indie
... Publish draft of Authoring?
mc: Not on the TR timeline
mc: inconsistency in spelling,
which do we use? programing or programming etc
... How to find these issues?
js: Will listen for TTS errors that might indicate spelling
jc: Will look
... Timeline?
mc: Need all done by the
28th
... So read throughs done by the 24th ...
rs: Both docs?
mc: Yes
rs: Are hyperlinks checked?
mc: Yes
... Need to check referencing section -- pointers to other W3C
specs. Are we up to date?
... Links aren't broken, but maybe suboptimal because of a
redirect, etc
jc: Especially links pointing to a fragment ID
js: Asks about style sheet?
mc: W3C standard is US
English
... Expect we would avoid doubled consonents, u's etc
js: So, beyond the W3C style guide, we simplify? Drop doubled consonants -- fewer chars is our rule ...
[agreement]
rs: Do we email these?
mc: Suggest keep a running set of
notes and forward one doc
... Please send one doc with suggested edits to list so it's
archived
... Note that editorial notes are not output. Are there some
that souldn't be removed? We need to address that.
... If there are some we want to keep in the final TR, we need
to do something about them.
... So these need to be noted.
jc: Notes that commenter believes this is an editorial correction
mc: But we need to agree, and
will need to flag this for the Director.
... At the least we want Shane to check this?
[agreement]
mc: Double checking for lagging
comments ...
... Notes we are open for comments until March 7. Any that come
late, we will need to handle urgently.
... AC can also leave comments. Any AC comments will hold up
progress until we've satisfied them, or achieved Director's
approval to move without resolution
js: Notes that AC voting has not progressed in the last several days. No new votes
<richardschwerdtfeger> Issues 411, 406 Addition of aria-description or aria-help
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/411
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/406
rs: We have only one API target,
however
... APIs don't distinguish help from other description
... What does osx do?
jc: We have AXHelp, which is sometimes used to expose aria-describedby content
rs: Don't think we can have two, whatever we call it
jc: Agree
... Pefer to call it Help because Describedby can point to such
large blocks, and we don't want that for help
stefan: Can we limit string length?
ss: Valid point
rs: Problem is we have aria-label
for aria-labeledby
... So we'll be asked for the analog of describedby
cs: Notes nothing similar in UA just now, can ask
rs: We also need to think about precedence
cs: Hidden help text is not a UA
pattern
... Are you asking for a hidden secondary text field?
ss: We have this concept in SAP,
can be longer help about what to do with a field
... We include a kybd command to read it
... How is this different?
jc: We might have help around using upper case chars
rs: We started with describedby, because the ideal is that it's also visible
cs; Maybe we need to revisit tooltip pattern in aria
jc: Agree that would help
rs: yes
... We're currently inconsistent across the AAPIs. We need to
settle on a name and a apping
<richardschwerdtfeger> ach richardschwerdtfeger
cs: Also developer text tends to get lost and out of date
jd: Can also make any needed change
<joanie> :)
jc: It's alsmost as describedby is a superset of what we use tooltips for
cs: We don't have one now,
because msaa was abusing it
... On pure UA describedby is part of the name calculation
jc: similar here
... Maybe describedby is where the problem is
cs: Seems we need to spend some time thinking about help, description texts, etc
ss: Concerned that attrib names also carry implied meaning, and this can be confusing
jc: Believe aria-description is proposed as a separate use case with no current mapping
ss: Suggest looking at this
problem issue from the AAPI perspective. Would that help
us?
... What to use today on ms?
cs: A secondary object
rs: I've seen href in bigger bubble help, not just text
ss: One use case is with custom
widget, where kybd needs help
... Maybe aria-keyhelp attrib?
jc: Sounds like Access Key, and that didn't work
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to say accesskey failed. We should not add aria-keyhelp
rs: Suggest we mull this issue for awhile and take it up again next week.
jc: Suggest ew consider aria-tooltip as overide to tooltip
rs: There's short and longer tooltip ...
jc: Sometimes used for
mini-dialogs with focusable content, which is part of the
problem. @aria-tooltip make make it more apparent that it's
just short strings of plain text.
... Would make aria-tooltip even more clear, because could only
contain text
make log public
<jcraig> ISSUE-406?
<trackbot> ISSUE-406 -- Proposal for new aria-tooltip property. (Previously proposed as @aria-help) -- open
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) FAILED: s/movemeent/movement/ Succeeded: s/Movembent/Movement/ Succeeded: s/AX-Help, which is like ARIA-Description/AXHelp, which is sometimes used to expose aria-describedby content/ Succeeded: s/Sometimes used for minidialog, which is part of the problem/Sometimes used for mini-dialogs with focusable content, which is part of the problem/ Succeeded: s/which is part of the problem/which is part of the problem. @aria-tooltip make make it more apparent that it's just short strings of plain text./ Succeeded: s/make log public// Succeeded: s/make log public/ / Found Scribe: jcraog Found Scribe: jcraig Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Scribes: jcraog, jcraig, janina Default Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger, James_Nurthen, +49.322.110.8.aaaa, janina, Michael_Cooper, Stefan_Schnabel, jcraig, joanie, cyns, cyns_ Present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger James_Nurthen +49.322.110.8.aaaa janina Michael_Cooper Stefan_Schnabel jcraig joanie cyns cyns_ Regrets: Matt_King Found Date: 17 Feb 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/17-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]