See also: IRC log
A cleaned up version of these minutes is available at https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-01-24.
<rsingh2> I have conflicting meetings. I'll at least be on chat but may not be able to call in.
<BernadetteLoscio> sip:zakim@voip.w3.org
<Daniel> I'm on SKype (Daniel)
<Seiji_Isotani> not abble to connect
<HadleyBeeman> selji_isotani, not able to connect on the phone?
<adler1> hi phil
<Seiji_Isotani> yes Hadley
<JoaoPauloAlmeida> It could be me
<JoaoPauloAlmeida> I am calling from skype
<yaso> Yes, Hadley!
<yaso> Vagner_br, nathalia, newtoncalegari, CrizGonzalez and christianmiranda_ are with us on the same call
<Seiji_Isotani> Seiji isotani
<Caroline_> +551155093537
<Seiji_Isotani> My connections is a not good here ... may go down a few times
<christianmiranda_> :)
<MTCarrasco> Noise: please mute
<Caroline_> Hadley, could you speak louder, please?
<HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Main_Page
<scribe> scribe: PhilA
<scribe> scribeNick: PhilA
HadleyBeeman: Opens meeting
<Caroline_> Caroline_ thanks Phila
HadleyBeeman: Says we'll spend
most of the meeting getting used to how we do this
... introduces the queue system
... Invites people to ask her to slow down if she speaks too
quickly
... introduces scribe role
... gives us a written record of the meeting as we talk
... then becomes the meeting minutes
... everyone should feel free to type comments into IRC
... you can put in comments by typing /me {comment} and then it
won't appear in the meeting minutes
HadleyBeeman: Invites people to say your name, your organisation and why you're interested in the WG
adler1: So I'll start. I'm Steve
Adler anda I'm a co-chair with Hadley and Yaso
... worked at IBM for many years in Denmark and elsewhere
... working on open data around the world. I see the need for
open standards for compatability, data quality etc.
... helping different regions around the world
antoine: I work for Europeana and the Vrije University in Amsterdam
<yaso> yes
antoine: same interests as Steve. My interest especially is in cultural heritage
<JoaoPauloAlmeida> I can't hear
<ericstephan> I can't either
yaso: Hi, I'm from Nic.br/W3C Brasil. Interested in fostering open data (and I;m a co-chair of the WG!)
Hello BernadetteLoscio?
<yaso> me/ Oh yes! Of course. Thanks, Phil!
carlosiglesias: Hello. I'm an
independent consultant, former W3C office staff
... working on lots of Web standards projects
... especially on open government
... for last 6 years or so focussed on open data projects and
initiatives
<Ig_Bittencourt> speak afterwards
carlosiglesias: This is not just my business it's my way of life. I feel I have to be here
Caroline_: I'm here with Yaso and others at Nic.br.
<Daniel> (I may have to speak later, I need to be away for 5 mins)
christianmiranda__: I work at the Ministry of planning, budget etc. in Brazil. We are responsible for data.gob.br
<herrmann> Christian: dados.gov.br
christianmiranda__: we're working in a project for open data strategy for data on the Web in Brazil
<Caroline_> Bernadette is on the call now
<christianmiranda__> ack
CrizGonzalez: Hi, I'm close to the guys from W3C Brasil.
BernadetteLoscio: [hard to hear detail]
<Caroline_> Phil, I will help you with the scribing
<Caroline_> Bernadette: I am from the Federal University of Pernambuco, I work mostly with database, open data and linked data
ElieSL: hi I'm Elie Sloim, in
Bordeaux. We work on website quality
... we wrote a checklist for better od quality
DeirdreLee: Hi, I'm from the Insight team at the University in Galway, formerly DERI
<ericstephan> no sound?
<Daniel> ok I'll introduce myself after Deirdre
<HadleyBeeman> thanks, daniel
<scribe> ... done lots of work with W3C on standards, eGov, linked data etc.
Daniel: I'm a prof in Rio. Worked in Sem Web for a long time. Using Sem Web, have worked with various agencies at federal and local level, helping them publish their data on the Web
<Vagner_Br> He was also one of the general chairs of the successful WWW2013 in Rio de Janeiro las year
Daniel: also collaborating with the W3C office in Brazil
Hailing ericstephan
<ericstephan> phone not working
Erik M??
<ericstephan> Eric Stephan, Pacific Northwest National Labs
what a pain ericstephan
<ericstephan> Interested in linked data for science
ericstephan: I'm interested in the practical application of LD for scientific data
<HadleyBeeman> unmute erikmannens
gguizzardi: I'm Giancarlo - working in Trento and elsewhere. Lots of experience in building conceptual models etc
<JoaoPauloAlmeida> he's Giancarlo
<christianmiranda__> :)
s/Gianluca/Giancarlo/
HadleyBeeman: I wear a bunch of
hats. I'm just finishing chairing the Gov Linked data WG
... also work for UK Government
<gguizzardi> Giancarlo Guizzardi. Professor in the Federal University of Espirito Santo in Brazil and currently also a Visiting Professor in the University of Trento, Italy
HadleyBeeman: and Mozilla
... want to fix some of the problems that have been bugging
me
herrmann: Hello
<gguizzardi> Most of the academic, technology transfer and outreach work in Ontologies, Conceptual Modeling, Data Semantics and Semantic Interoperability
<Vagner_Br> Augusto Hermann: works for the Ministry of Planning at the Open Data Team
<ErikMannens> I'm from iMinds-MMLab ... I lead a group of 20 SemWeb researchers ... was co-chair of W3C's Media Fragments WG (together with my friend rtroncy :) ... now still active in Provenance and CSV group ... have a big Open Data project in Flanders & are maintainers of two LOD publishing platforms, i.e., TheDataTank and R&Wbase
Ig_Bittencourt: ('eegee' (forgive my Anglo-Saxon ignornace Ig_Bittencourt)
<herrmann_> PhilA: sorry I lost connection so couldn't see your transcript
<Vagner_Br> Augusto Hermann: I am interested on Onthology topics. At the ministry they are in charge of Open Data group
JoaoPauloAlmeida: Prof and colleague of Giancarlo. Mostly interested in vocab design and quality, conceptual models etc.
John_Goodwin: Hi, I work at
Ordnance Survey (UK mapping agency)
... interests include linked data. Sit on UK Gov open standards
data group, UK Gov Linked Data WG
... we have published a lot of data, some linked, some open
<herrmann_> Vagner_Br: ack
John_Goodwin: sitting with a
geospatial hat on
... tie things back to Open Geospatial Consortium too
HadleyBeeman: Pretty significant contingent from Brazil...
newtoncalegari: Hi, I'mg from nic.br too
<Caroline_> Nathalia: I work at Brazilian Internet Steering Committtee (CGI.Br)
<HadleyBeeman> PhilA: I'm the Data Activity lead at W3C, coordinating the working groups in this space.
<Vagner_Br> Nathalia: works for the Internet Steering Committee in Brazil. I am also interested in open data in general
<HadleyBeeman> … Includes the CSV on the Web working group, the Semantic Web working groups. I'm pleased to see this one get off the ground.
<HadleyBeeman> … It goes back to a workshop we held in London nearly a year ago. Those discussions pointed to the need for this group.
<Vagner_Br> Newton Calegari: I am work for NIC.br in Brazil. I am also interested in fostering open data.
<HadleyBeeman> … In this group, I'm team contact. I keep out of things as much as possible. I support you, the group, and the chairs, to steer you along the W3C recommendations track.
<HadleyBeeman> … I wrote the charter for this group, based on input from the conference in Rio (among other inputs).
<HadleyBeeman> … It's my job to help you deliver against that charter.
<MTCarrasco> M.T. Carrasco Benitez - European Commission - multilingual data - http://dragoman.org/dwbp - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2014Jan/0012.html
MTCarrasco: I'm at the European Commission in Luxembourg, my interest is in multilingual aspects
HadleyBeeman: Explains that RRSAgent is a bot that sits on the channel and helps to record the minutes. (RRS stands for Ralph R Swick, COO of W3C)
calling rtroncy
<Daniel_> My client crashed, I re-logged in, but I don't know how to kill my previous id (Daniel)
rtroncy: I'm Raphael Troncy from
Eurecom
... a non-profit research institute in SE France.
... I lead a Sem Web research group. Co-Chaired several W3C
groups, member of various Community groups
... interested in making a better use of data, esp from
government
... involved in DataLift project in France that, among other
things, created lov.okfn.org
call Seiji_Isotani
Seiji_Isotani: From Uni Sao
Paolo
... working with ontologies for 10 years. I see this WG has a
need to create best pract for structured open data
... hope I can help a little buit
<Daniel_> I had to reenter the IRC, but I don't know how to tie it to my Skype call
<yaso> Sorry, we disconnected
<yaso> Dialing again
<yaso> \o/
vkoster Are you there?
Are you here Raj?
<yaso> and... We're back!
<rsingh2> Raj is here now
Vagner_Br: I'm Vagner Diniz, I'm
head of W3C office in Brazil. One of our main topics is open
data. We want to see open data spreading around Brasil. Also
connected with OGP
... also connected to IDRC Canadian Agency initiative on Open
Data for Latin America and the Caribbean initiative on open
data for Latin America
... we help wth the open data for development portal
... Og4D (og4d.org)
<christianmiranda> also connected to OD4D - http://www.od4d.org/
<Caroline_> ... also conected to OGP Open Data Working Group
Vanessa_Tonini: I'm a Web developer at W3C Brasil, here to learn more about open data
<Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to introduce the s// command
<Caroline_> s/og4D; m/OD4D (www.od4d.org)
<gsuarez> Hi all, I'm Gustavo Suarez and i'm working for the open data project in Uruguay...
<John_Goodwin> sorry have to go at 3
HadleyBeeman: We're a group
trying to work together remotely
... we have to create a Best practices doc and two
vocabularies
... we'll come together once a week on the phone
<HadleyBeeman> Doodle poll to find a time for our weekly meetings: http://doodle.com/dt3xax6tkk8grq83
HadleyBeeman: we have not yet set the times of those meetings yet
please fill in the Doodle poll
HadleyBeeman: That would help us fix the slot for everyine
PhilA: Kangchan Lee (Korea) joined today. ericstephan is in Pacific Time
HadleyBeeman: The chairs will send an agenda at least 2 days before each meeting
<MTCarrasco> Anybody from the West USA or Asia?
Yes MTCarrasco - ericstephan is West USA
scribe: Kangchan Lee is in Seoul I believe
<MTCarrasco> So, it has to be late afternoon in Europe - hard for Seoul
HadleyBeeman: Talks about face to face meetings. TPAC is when lots of groups get together. This year in Santa Clara late October
PhilA: (note - we're having a party for 25 years of the Web in Santa Clara)
HadleyBeeman: And we have a f2f
meting in London 31 March April
... F2F meetings are a chance to get together and you get a lot
done
... Any questions on meetings and f2f meetings
<ericstephan> It feels like we are part of a musical
<John_Goodwin> sorry have to go now - catch you all next week.
<christianmiranda> now we're back, sorry
<John_Goodwin> bye!
HadleyBeeman: We try for volunteers for scribing. If no volunteer, zakim will pick a victim
PhilA: You might want to look at the tracker https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/
HadleyBeeman: We need one or more
editors for each document
... the question is who is going to step up and take charge of
the deliverable and who will contgribute
... we have a wiki that we'll use for our agendas, meeting
minutes etc. - everything
... only WG members can edit the wiki but it can be read by the
public
... We have 2 mailing lists at the moment. The main one is the
one from which you will have received info about this
meeting
... the archives are publicly available
<Vinh> hi, I'm trying to join the teleconference. It's asking for the code, can anyone please let me know what the code is?
there you are Vinh :-)
<Vinh> thanks Phil
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/ main mailing list
(member only-writeable, publicly visible)
<HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter.html
HadleyBeeman: The charter is the document that sets out what the group is committed to do
adler1: We're supposed to deliver
3 main documents
... Best practices - how to address some of the internal
challenges that IT departments face. How od might be used,
compared, analysed etc.
... we have another deliverable around a vocab for describing
the quality of data on the Web
... and one on the use of data
... the two vocabs are more techie
... and the BP guide is about internal practices, policies
etc.
... Those are 3 separate deliverables
HadleyBeeman: And with that comes at least 3 separate editors and possibly 3 separate task forces
adler1: Fortunately we have 3 talented co-chairs
<adler1> I muted
MTCarrasco: How are you going to treat multilingual issues? HTTP is multilingual but linked data is often not
HadleyBeeman: I don't think that
has been decided - that's an issue we can take up
... and decide
adler1: I think multilingual is
an important consideration
... what forms should vocabs take, how should we do that? How
has it been done before?
<MTCarrasco> It must be variant such as the formats
HadleyBeeman: The same way we've done other things. If there is enthusiasm in the WG, and it heps fulfil the charter then it's in scope
MTCarrasco: It you look at the HTTP the language is one of several dimensions.
HadleyBeeman: Looks interesting - please keep on that tract in this WG
<MTCarrasco> Dimensions of negotiation http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2295#section-4.7
Vagner_Br: On multilimgual - that
would be very nice if this group addressed that issue
... maybe we should add it to the charter?
... if we have the expertise in the WG then good. we need to
find the people who are interested
... but my question about the charter... one of gthe missions
of the WG is to develop the open data ecosystem
<MTCarrasco> Big Multilingual Linked Data (BigMu) http://dragoman.org/mw7/bigmu.txt
Vagner_Br: I could not see in the deliverables where this topic is covered
HadleyBeeman: I'm happy to talk
about that
... To your point about the ecosystem...
... the deliverables we have came out of the holes in the
ecosystem
... the items in the BPs for example, those things without
which the ecosystem doesn't function well.
... for e.g. when we have understandable and persistent URs,
that helps
<MTCarrasco> One should not make language an special case: apply existing standards; back to basics http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html
HadleyBeeman: likewise the vocabs
came out of discussions with others. So the granularity and
quality vocab came from developers who say they won't use data
if they don't know it will be there this time next week
... and it helps people state that a dataset is not accurate -
so don't assume it is
... Describes need for usage vocab
... creates a relationship between the publisher and
developer
Vagner_Br: That helps for a
beginning. Let's see what happens later. my vision of the
ecosystem is much broader
... how can we address the many disciplines and actors who may
not usually be involved
<Daniel> will we need to have actual data published following what we recommend, as an example?
yes Daniel - you are correct
herrmann: If I look at the deliverables. The BP doc says it should be technologically agnostic - so not only linked data. Also JSON, others etc.
<Daniel> Phil, shouldn't this become then an action item? Several participants are directly involved in publishing actual data, many from governments
<MTCarrasco> Yes Daniel: theory should come the empirical processing and publishing of large multilingual corpora such as Official Journal of the European Union (OJ)
<christianmiranda> herrmann: so i think it would be a god idea to add a point specific about HATEOAS
<MTCarrasco> 24 languages - terabytes
<christianmiranda> good*
herrmann: Talking about hypermedia ?? language?
<christianmiranda> HAL - Hypertext application Language
herrmann: could we invite those authors to tell us about that?
HadleyBeeman: Can you post a link please herrmann
antoine: I wanted to ask how we should interpret this line in the charter
<christianmiranda> yes Caroline_ sorry about that
antoine: What Augusto said actually went against that as he was talking about specific technologies
<herrmann> on the Open Data best practice guide we should consider adding HATEOAS (hypermedia as the engine of applicaiton state) and linking between resources (even if not RDF). There's work on a specification about adding links to xml and json in Hypermedia Application Langauge - http://stateless.co/hal_specification.html
antoine: It seems important to have a vocab about data usage, but I wonder what sort of protocol could be used to commiunicate back to the publisher. Which again speaks against the 'tech agnostic' aspect
<MTCarrasco> I volunteer as editor for the general aspects of the URIs and variants. And the particular application to languages and formats.
<gguizzardi> I wonder if the group sees metadata as data as well...my question is related to if the quality and usage models the group is supposed to produce could also be used to describe metadata about metadata models (e.g., vocabularies)
HadleyBeeman: My understanding of that is that it's trying to not ties us to RDF/LD/CSV
PhilA: As author of that line I confirm that is what I meant
<HadleyBeeman> PhilA: The Government Linked Data is wrapping things up now. It specifically government data, and specifically linked data. This working group removes those two restrictions.
<HadleyBeeman> … Those vocabularies will be RDF vocabularies. But the membership didn't want this group to be just tied to linked data.
<HadleyBeeman> … It doesn't mean you can't talk about specific technologies; it means you can talk about more than one.
<MTCarrasco> One cannot be agnostic about the basic web technologies such as URIs
<HadleyBeeman> … As the W3C we do think in terms of hyperlinks, URIs, the Web. It is data on the Web.
<MTCarrasco> One can be agnostics about data formats http://dragoman.org/format
<HadleyBeeman> adler1: I think this a positive development for W3C. Open data is an already existing movement; there are different catalogs and repositories in use.
adler1: This is a positive move by W3C I think. People are using lots of different tech, not just LD. There are evolutionary by-products
<MTCarrasco> web != XML - Linked Data != XML
<antoine> Antoine: am satisfied with PhilA's answer.
<HadleyBeeman> philA: This is part of merging the eGov activity and the Sem Web activity into the Data activity.
<HadleyBeeman> … In parallel with this working group, we have the CSV on the Web working group reinforcing this message.
<herrmann> btw, the HAL specification has a mailing list as well - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/hal-discuss
adler1: Stuff that can be expressed in RDF - we should find ways to express in other tech
<MTCarrasco> The results must be valid for open and closed (inhouse) usage
ericstephan: How about outreach
to other groups. I think we should think about how we can reach
other groups. I was in a forum called Ontolog this week and
another under the US NSF
... they were aware of and asking questions about the Data
Activity
<MTCarrasco> Linked Data for Language Technology Community Group - http://www.w3.org/community/ld4lt
<MTCarrasco> Best Practices for Multilingual Linked Open Data Community Group http://www.w3.org/community/bpmlod
<MTCarrasco> These groups should be informed of this group
<adler1> Steve is still in riga
<Daniel> Looks like we need to use the Provenance work
<DeirdreLee> Another related group is OGP Open Data Working Group http://www.opengovpartnership.org/get-involved/london-summit-2013/agenda/session/open-data-working-group
HadleyBeeman: Our task is to
build something, we need to do some writing and that needs
review and input from the outside world
... reaching out to people to review our stuff and feed in is
really important
adler1: I'll certainly do what I
can to promote our work because we want our standards to have
traction
... having external groups that wants those standards is
important
... we have to look up and see that what we're creating is
useful
... If you have relations with places like cities, share their
experiences with us - it's a requirements gathering process
yaso: I just want to complete
what you're saying. We should list some use cases
... this will be part of working out what the ecosystyem is
that we're trying to support
<JoaoPauloAlmeida> I am sorry I have to leave
MTCarrasco: One cannot be agnostic about basic Web technologies
<JoaoPauloAlmeida> HadleyBeeman, thanks
MTCarrasco: XML has been over-used in some cases. Some people equate RDF with XML for example
<yaso> (more about zakim here http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html)
MTCarrasco: we need to try and avoid overlap. We should use basic Web techs
Daniel: How are we going to
handle non-standardised technologies?
... there are other non-W3C ways to represent that might or
might not be standards
... are we going to try and accommodate those non-standardised
tech?
... Augusto pointed to HAL
... that's a proposal that may use some standards but it may
propose other ways. What are we going to say "you should follow
this technique" which is not standardised but use RDF?
<ericstephan> we use the expression "convention" rather than standard in climate science.
<herrmann> MTCarrasco, i see RDF 1.1 solves this problem by standardizing many other non-XML serializations for RDF
<HadleyBeeman> PhilA: We can point to a standard that is stable and recognised, whether it's one of ours or not.
<gguizzardi> I am sorry but I will have to leave
<gguizzardi> thanks. see u next time
Daniel: I understand that we may have some concrete examples
PhilA: yes
<herrmann> Daniel, I think the HAL proposal isn't to the exclusion of publishing RDF as well. It's just a defined way to link XML and JSON resources.
<MTCarrasco> Self-scribe: 1) one cannot be agnostic about basic web technologies (URI) 2) one can be agnostic about data formats (XML) 3) language must be consider within the core web technologies (URI variants) 4) inform specialised groups 5) standards must be valid for open and closed usage
<ericstephan> Its only for the love of LD that I'm agreeing to 4am PST time slots in the doodle poll
HadleyBeeman: Reminds people please to fill in the Doodle poll for future timign of calls (which will be 1 hour)
<Daniel> Augusto, it was just an example that came to mind, sorry if it wasn't quite appropriate
Daniel: Yep, I'm happy that we'll explain why something is a best practice irrespective of the tech used
HadleyBeeman: Summarises what we've discussed so far
<herrmann> thanks for the meeting, see you next wek
<MTCarrasco> URI examples http://dragoman.org/bigmu/uri.txt
HadleyBeeman: Asks for any questions?
<Daniel> sorry
MTCarrasco: Is it possible to be a partial editor?
HadleyBeeman: Yes, if we can find a co-editor
MTCarrasaco: I'm ready to be a co-editor, not a sole editor
HadleyBeeman: We can split documents into multiple documents
antoine: I could be interested
depending on what is in the doc of course. The scope is still a
bit wide
... the scope may remain wide, which means having co-editors is
a good idea as each co-editor can take care of the bit that
interests them
... Perhaps data usage vocab
... I was involved in SKOS for a long time, cultural heritage
etc.
<MTCarrasco> self-scribe: chop into smaller documents - editor volunteer for the document dialing with URIs, variants and applications to multilingual aspects
DeirdreLee: I'd be interested in
being an editor... maybe around the BPs, core vocs etc.
... or maybe the idea of an ecosystem, cross-domain aspects
HadleyBeeman: Would it be something that tied in all the pieces of the charter?
See http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp-scope/
<HadleyBeeman> PhilA: The Mobile Web Best Practices Working group began with an equally wide-open charter. So that group wrote down what it was/wasn't going to cover. Helped focus the group.
DeirdreLee: I'll take a look
ericstephan: I wanted to voice my
support - maybe a co-ed on one or other vocabulary. Both
relevant to work we're doing
... Slight pref for granularity and quality
<Caroline_> I can help DeirdreLee with the edition on BPs, ecossystem
HadleyBeeman: And a contributor
on the other one
... And Caroline_ is volunteering to work with DeirdreLee
Caroline_: I can help with editing that and I'll certainly contribute
<ericstephan> I have to drop off now. Thank you all and it was nice meeting you.
are you muted BernadetteLoscio?
<BernadetteLoscio> yes
<BernadetteLoscio> i can hear you
HadleyBeeman: Wold anyone particularly like to contribute/work on?
<BernadetteLoscio> im sorry
<BernadetteLoscio> you cant hear me
<Daniel> Folks, I have to leave now.
adler1: I'd def like to work on the BP doc
<BernadetteLoscio> im gonna write
<Daniel> quit
HadleyBeeman: Particular topics in BP?
<adler1> lost signal
<BernadetteLoscio> i'm interested with Quality and Granularity Description Vocabulary.. I have experience with Information Quality
HadleyBeeman: Wraps up the
meeting
... reminds people of Doodle
<HadleyBeeman> http://doodle.com/dt3xax6tkk8grq83
<yaso> tks Hadley!
<Ig_Bittencourt> Thanks
<BernadetteLoscio> thanks!!!
<rtroncy> Bye all, thanks !
<MTCarrasco> Bye
<Seiji_Isotani> bye
<nathalia> bye
<yaso> bye!
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