14:26:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:26:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:26:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:26:58 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 34 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 34 minutes ←
14:26:59 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:27:00 <trackbot> Date: 15 June 2011
14:55:42 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 28 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:55:49 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa ←
14:56:43 <Zakim> +Bernadette
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bernadette ←
14:57:01 <davidwood> Zakim, Bernadette is davidwood
David Wood: Zakim, Bernadette is davidwood ←
14:57:01 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it ←
14:57:13 <davidwood> Chair: David Wood
14:57:20 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.760.705.aabb ←
14:57:23 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:57:23 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:57:25 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:57:25 <Zakim> +Tony
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony ←
14:57:39 <Scott_Bauer> Zakim, Tony is me
Scott Bauer: Zakim, Tony is me ←
14:57:39 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott_Bauer; got it ←
14:58:49 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
14:58:49 <davidwood> Zakim, who is here?
David Wood: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:58:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavin, davidwood, +1.760.705.aabb, Scott_Bauer, Ivan, ??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavin, davidwood, +1.760.705.aabb, Scott_Bauer, Ivan, ??P13 ←
14:58:51 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
14:59:01 <AZ> Zakim, Bernadette is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, Bernadette is me ←
14:59:02 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not recognize a party named 'Bernadette'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AZ, I do not recognize a party named 'Bernadette' ←
14:59:02 <mbrunati> zakim ??P13 is me
Matteo Brunati: zakim ??P13 is me ←
14:59:25 <gavin> If you were Bernadatte now your davidwood ;)
Gavin Carothers: If you were Bernadatte now your davidwood ;) ←
14:59:26 <mbrunati> zakim, ??P13 is me
Matteo Brunati: zakim, ??P13 is me ←
14:59:31 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mbrunati; got it ←
14:59:37 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
14:59:37 <LeeF> AZ, bernadette was davidwood, not you
Lee Feigenbaum: AZ, bernadette was davidwood, not you ←
14:59:54 <davidwood> AZ, Bernadette dialed from our office number earlier for the SWCG call, so I'm sure it is me now.
David Wood: AZ, Bernadette dialed from our office number earlier for the SWCG call, so I'm sure it is me now. ←
14:59:57 <Zakim> +[Sophia]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Sophia] ←
15:00:09 <cmatheus> zakim, ??P6 is me
Christopher Matheus: zakim, ??P6 is me ←
15:00:09 <Zakim> +cmatheus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cmatheus; got it ←
15:01:08 <AZ> Zakim, +1.760.705.aabb is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, +1.760.705.aabb is me ←
15:01:08 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:01:19 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aacc ←
15:01:26 <AlexHall> zakim, aacc is me
Alex Hall: zakim, aacc is me ←
15:01:26 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it ←
15:01:31 <Zakim> + +1.303.474.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.303.474.aadd ←
15:01:48 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
15:01:52 <AndyS> zakim, ??P18 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P18 is me ←
15:01:52 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:02:57 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:03:00 <Zakim> +Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri ←
15:03:06 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:03:06 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:03:08 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:03:08 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:03:08 <pfps> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Peter Patel-Schneider: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:03:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavin, davidwood, AZ, Scott_Bauer, Ivan, mbrunati, LeeF, cmatheus, [Sophia], AlexHall, +1.303.474.aadd, AndyS, MacTed, Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavin, davidwood, AZ, Scott_Bauer, Ivan, mbrunati, LeeF, cmatheus, [Sophia], AlexHall, +1.303.474.aadd, AndyS, MacTed, Souri ←
15:03:21 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
15:03:30 <Zakim> +??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33 ←
15:03:40 <pfps> Zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: Zakim, mute me ←
15:03:42 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
15:03:44 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P28 is yvesr
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P28 is yvesr ←
15:03:45 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:04:06 <mischat> zakim, ??�P33 is me
Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??�P33 is me ←
15:04:06 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '??�P33'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '??�P33' ←
15:04:38 <mischat> zakim, +??P33 is mischat
Mischa Tuffield: zakim, +??P33 is mischat ←
15:04:38 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+??P33'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+??P33' ←
15:04:46 <mischat> zakim, +??P33 is me
Mischa Tuffield: zakim, +??P33 is me ←
15:04:46 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+??P33'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+??P33' ←
15:04:47 <Scott_Bauer> rrsagent, make records public
Scott Bauer: rrsagent, make records public ←
15:04:57 <davidwood> pfps, 61#
David Wood: pfps, 61# ←
15:05:20 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:05:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavin, davidwood, AZ, Scott_Bauer, Ivan, mbrunati, LeeF, cmatheus, [Sophia], AlexHall, +1.303.474.aadd (muted), AndyS, MacTed (muted), Souri, yvesr, ??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavin, davidwood, AZ, Scott_Bauer, Ivan, mbrunati, LeeF, cmatheus, [Sophia], AlexHall, +1.303.474.aadd (muted), AndyS, MacTed (muted), Souri, yvesr, ??P33 ←
15:05:23 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:05:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), zwu2 ←
15:05:31 <MacTed> Zakim, P33 is mischat
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, P33 is mischat ←
15:05:31 <Zakim> sorry, MacTed, I do not recognize a party named 'P33'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, MacTed, I do not recognize a party named 'P33' ←
15:05:33 <Scott_Bauer> Scribe: Scott_Bauer
(Scribe set to Scott Bauer)
15:05:34 <davidwood> Scribe: Scott Bauer
15:05:34 <pfps> Zakim, MacTed is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: Zakim, MacTed is me ←
15:05:34 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:05:45 <davidwood> scribenick: Scott_Bauer
15:05:58 <Zakim> +[Sophia.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Sophia.a] ←
15:05:59 <Zakim> + +1.408.642.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.642.aaee ←
15:06:06 <MacTed> Zakim, ??P33 is mischat
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, ??P33 is mischat ←
15:06:06 <Zakim> +mischat; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mischat; got it ←
15:06:09 <Zakim> + +1.415.586.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.415.586.aaff ←
15:06:15 <FabGandon> Zakim, Sophia.a is me
Fabien Gandon: Zakim, Sophia.a is me ←
15:06:15 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it ←
15:06:15 <MacTed> Zakim, pfps is OpenLink_Software
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, pfps is OpenLink_Software ←
15:06:17 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software; got it ←
15:06:23 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:06:23 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:06:36 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 08 June telecon:
David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 08 June telecon: ←
15:06:36 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-06-08
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-06-08 ←
15:06:38 <Scott_Bauer> Topic: June 8 telcon minutes
15:06:42 <MacTed> pfps - where are you calling from? might +1.303.474.aadd be you?
Ted Thibodeau: pfps - where are you calling from? might +1.303.474.aadd be you? ←
15:06:59 <Scott_Bauer> david: Made changes but they were not promulgated
David Wood: Made changes but they were not promulgated ←
15:07:26 <Scott_Bauer> ... edited to capture resolution on issue-60
... edited to capture resolution on ISSUE-60 ←
15:07:55 <Scott_Bauer> ... closed issue-60 in the tracker, but it doesn't show in the minutes
... closed ISSUE-60 in the tracker, but it doesn't show in the minutes ←
15:08:21 <pfps> zakim, aadd is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, aadd is me ←
15:08:21 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:08:25 <Scott_Bauer> ... will check with Sandro
... will check with Sandro ←
15:08:26 <gavin> Fixed
Gavin Carothers: Fixed ←
15:08:28 <pfps> q-
15:08:38 <gavin> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-06-08 is now correct
Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-06-08 is now correct ←
15:08:39 <MacTed> ack aadd
Ted Thibodeau: ack aadd ←
15:08:44 <MacTed> ack +1.303.474.aadd
Ted Thibodeau: ack +1.303.474.aadd ←
15:08:52 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:08:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavin, davidwood, AZ, Scott_Bauer, Ivan, mbrunati, LeeF, cmatheus, [Sophia], AlexHall, pfps (muted), AndyS, MacTed (muted), Souri, yvesr, mischat, FabGandon,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavin, davidwood, AZ, Scott_Bauer, Ivan, mbrunati, LeeF, cmatheus, [Sophia], AlexHall, pfps (muted), AndyS, MacTed (muted), Souri, yvesr, mischat, FabGandon, ←
15:08:56 <Zakim> ... +1.408.642.aaee, +1.415.586.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.408.642.aaee, +1.415.586.aaff ←
15:09:15 <Scott_Bauer> Gavin: its all fixed
Gavin Carothers: its all fixed ←
15:09:38 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas ←
15:09:50 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me ←
15:09:50 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:10:06 <Scott_Bauer> Andy: problems with issue-58
Andy Seaborne: problems with ISSUE-58 ←
15:10:20 <Scott_Bauer> David: closed presumed to be archaic
David Wood: closed presumed to be archaic ←
15:10:37 <AlexHall> I see the resolution in the minutes
Alex Hall: I see the resolution in the minutes ←
15:11:04 <gavin> I'll fix it ;)(
Gavin Carothers: I'll fix it ;)( ←
15:11:20 <LeeF> thanks, gavin
Lee Feigenbaum: thanks, gavin ←
15:12:03 <Scott_Bauer> David: I will fix it
David Wood: I will fix it ←
15:12:57 <pfps> Zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: Zakim, mute me ←
15:12:58 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←
15:13:26 <AndyS> Absent any info, presume as per proposal (close, do nothing), but it does not actually say that in the issue tracker.
Andy Seaborne: Absent any info, presume as per proposal (close, do nothing), but it does not actually say that in the issue tracker. ←
15:13:53 <Scott_Bauer> David: The wiki is now correct
David Wood: The wiki is now correct ←
15:14:33 <Scott_Bauer> ... The minutes from June 8 are accepted
... The minutes from June 8 are accepted ←
15:14:53 <Scott_Bauer> ... Richard has claimed victory on action-59
... Richard has claimed victory on ACTION-59 ←
15:15:12 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Documents
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Documents ←
15:15:32 <Scott_Bauer> ... Peter had action-69
15:15:35 <pfps> yes, my action is done!
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes, my action is done! ←
15:16:19 <Scott_Bauer> ... passing by Dan, Sandro
... passing by Dan, Sandro ←
15:16:49 <davidwood> Scribes page proposes the summer telecon schedule: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes
David Wood: Scribes page proposes the summer telecon schedule: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes ←
15:17:22 <pfps> fine by m
Peter Patel-Schneider: fine by me ←
15:17:25 <pfps> s/m/me/
15:17:31 <Scott_Bauer> ... Any objections to the summer telecon schedule as shown
... Any objections to the summer telecon schedule as shown ←
15:17:52 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
15:18:02 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (13%), yvesr (82%)
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (13%), yvesr (82%) ←
15:18:07 <MacTed> Zakim, mute yvesr
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute yvesr ←
15:18:07 <Zakim> yvesr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: yvesr should now be muted ←
15:18:11 <yvesr> Zakim, mute me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, mute me ←
15:18:11 <Zakim> yvesr was already muted, yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: yvesr was already muted, yvesr ←
15:18:43 <davidwood> RESOLVED: to accept the summer telecon schedule.
RESOLVED: to accept the summer telecon schedule. ←
15:18:44 <Scott_Bauer> ... resolved to accept the schedule as written
... resolved to accept the schedule as written ←
15:19:23 <Scott_Bauer> ... Action 56 from Antoine. Guus also not here.
... ACTION-56 from Antoine. Guus also not here. ←
15:19:47 <AZ> Scott, it's not for Antoine, it's Pierre-Antoine's action
Antoine Zimmermann: Scott, it's not for Antoine, it's Pierre-Antoine's action ←
15:19:51 <Scott_Bauer> ... Closing the action item for Guus
... Closing the action item for Guus ←
15:20:35 <Scott_Bauer> ... Pierre-Antoine for action 56 (correction to the above)
... Pierre-Antoine for ACTION-56 (correction to the above) ←
15:20:36 <AndyS> ping ericP (Q from chair)
Andy Seaborne: ping ericP (Q from chair) ←
15:20:53 <Scott_Bauer> ... leaving turtle document action open.
... leaving turtle document action open. ←
15:20:58 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile ←
15:20:58 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made ←
15:21:00 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:21:03 <davidwood> SPARQL/RDF WG Meeting regarding graph terminology:
David Wood: SPARQL/RDF WG Meeting regarding graph terminology: ←
15:21:03 <davidwood> Poll at http://www.doodle.com/iny935vc6n67vxpv
David Wood: Poll at http://www.doodle.com/iny935vc6n67vxpv ←
15:21:33 <Scott_Bauer> ... action item to schedule graph terminology discussion a poll is posted.
... action item to schedule graph terminology discussion a poll is posted. ←
15:21:46 <davidwood> Revisit RDF Postponed Issues
David Wood: Revisit RDF Postponed Issues ←
15:21:46 <Scott_Bauer> ... brings us back to postponed issues
... brings us back to postponed issues ←
15:21:55 <Scott_Bauer> Topic: Postponed issues
15:22:04 <AZ> +1 to close it
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 to close it ←
15:22:04 <AndyS> Currently, 22/June and 6/July most "yes"s -- 15:00 (UTC+01)
Andy Seaborne: Currently, 22/June and 6/July most "yes"s -- 15:00 (UTC+01) ←
15:22:20 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/59
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/59 ←
15:22:20 <davidwood> See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/0063.html where Peter proposes to close as "opened in error".
David Wood: See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/0063.html where Peter proposes to close as "opened in error". ←
15:22:30 <pfps> +1 to close 59
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to close 59 ←
15:22:38 <Scott_Bauer> david: issue 59 opened in error and proposal is to closse as suggested by Peter
David Wood: ISSUE-59 opened in error and proposal is to closse as suggested by Peter ←
15:22:39 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:22:42 <davidwood> +1 to close
David Wood: +1 to close ←
15:22:44 <cygri> +1 to close ISSUE-59
Richard Cyganiak: +1 to close ISSUE-59 ←
15:22:46 <zwu2> +1 close
15:22:50 <mbrunati> +1 to close
Matteo Brunati: +1 to close ←
15:22:55 <cmatheus> +1 close
Christopher Matheus: +1 close ←
15:22:58 <yvesr> +1
Yves Raimond: +1 ←
15:23:01 <pfps> OK
15:23:52 <Scott_Bauer> RESOLVED: Issue-59 was CLOSED because it was opened in error by the last RDF WG. See: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/59
RESOLVED: ISSUE-59 was CLOSED because it was opened in error by the last RDF WG. See: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/59 ←
15:23:52 <Scott_Bauer> ... issue-62 in relation to the turtle doc Guus to discuss with Eric.
... ISSUE-62 in relation to the turtle doc Guus to discuss with Eric. ←
15:23:57 <gavin> I did talk to eric last week!
Gavin Carothers: I did talk to eric last week! ←
15:24:01 <davidwood> ISSUE-62: Revisit "The test cases manifest format has a semantic error"
David Wood: ISSUE-62: Revisit "The test cases manifest format has a semantic error" ←
15:24:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-62 Revisit "The test cases manifest format has a semantic error" notes added
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-62 Revisit "The test cases manifest format has a semantic error" notes added ←
15:24:43 <Scott_Bauer> ... Richard proposed continuing issue-62 proposed to be moved from raised to open
... Richard proposed continuing ISSUE-62 proposed to be moved from raised to open ←
15:24:45 <davidwood> Propose to OPEN ISSUE-62 for later discussions
David Wood: Propose to OPEN ISSUE-62 for later discussions ←
15:25:02 <cygri> (I think it was danbri who proposed to continue this .... but i agree)
Richard Cyganiak: (I think it was danbri who proposed to continue this .... but i agree) ←
15:25:36 <Scott_Bauer> ... any objections to opening 62, hearing none it is open
... any objections to opening 62, hearing none it is open ←
15:25:36 <Scott_Bauer> RESOLVED: Issue-62 was OPENED because we need to consider it properly. See: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/62
RESOLVED: ISSUE-62 was OPENED because we need to consider it properly. See: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/62 ←
15:25:48 <Scott_Bauer> ... Moves us to issue-12
15:25:51 <davidwood> ISSUE-12: Reconcile various forms of string literals
David Wood: ISSUE-12: Reconcile various forms of string literals ←
15:25:51 <trackbot> ISSUE-12 Reconcile various forms of string literals (time permitting) notes added
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-12 Reconcile various forms of string literals (time permitting) notes added ←
15:26:06 <Scott_Bauer> ... Guus thought we were close to consensus.
... Guus thought we were close to consensus. ←
15:26:10 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/12
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/12 ←
15:26:11 <davidwood> Are we reaching consensus: see thread starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/0010.html
David Wood: Are we reaching consensus: see thread starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/0010.html ←
15:26:11 <davidwood> No :) See William's proposal and resulting thread at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/0069.html
David Wood: No :) See William's proposal and resulting thread at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/0069.html ←
15:26:23 <Scott_Bauer> ... William made a proposal and I think we are not close.
... William made a proposal and I think we are not close. ←
15:26:23 <AndyS> ww sent regrets
Andy Seaborne: ww sent regrets ←
15:26:39 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
15:26:41 <JeremyCarroll> q+
Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←
15:26:47 <davidwood> ack cygri
David Wood: ack cygri ←
15:26:51 <Scott_Bauer> ... looking back on thread a contrary test case was stated.
... looking back on thread a contrary test case was stated. ←
15:27:07 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll
David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll ←
15:28:14 <Scott_Bauer> Jeremy: May need to take this off line. The first working group put the lang treatments in late in the day.
Jeremy Carroll: May need to take this off line. The first working group put the lang treatments in late in the day. ←
15:28:29 <Scott_Bauer> ... late change to the desing of model and syntax.
... late change to the design of model and syntax. ←
15:28:53 <Souri> s/desing/design/
15:28:57 <Scott_Bauer> ... 2004 working group felt they weren't able to change the design and the intent of the rdf-wg wasn't clear.
... 2004 working group felt they weren't able to change the design and the intent of the rdf-wg wasn't clear. ←
15:29:24 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
15:29:53 <Scott_Bauer> ... the question is should we fix the design or live with it.
... the question is should we fix the design or live with it. ←
15:30:31 <Scott_Bauer> David: Owl wg expressed a concern in changing datatypes
David Wood: Owl wg expressed a concern in changing datatypes ←
15:31:01 <Scott_Bauer> Jeremy: Advantages of the current design is that it works well with DL
Jeremy Carroll: Advantages of the current design is that it works well with DL ←
15:31:21 <AndyS> Was there a specific example of what possible change messes OWL up?
Andy Seaborne: Was there a specific example of what possible change messes OWL up? ←
15:31:38 <Scott_Bauer> ... current design more targeted at more niave user
... current design more targeted at more niave user ←
15:32:24 <Scott_Bauer> David: We already have plain strings. Don't really buy the arguments we are breaking rdf
David Wood: We already have plain strings. Don't really buy the arguments we are breaking rdf ←
15:32:53 <davidwood> AndyS, IanH expressed concern over any change to datatypes because that would require changes in OWL.
David Wood: AndyS, IanH expressed concern over any change to datatypes because that would require changes in OWL. ←
15:33:49 <Scott_Bauer> Richard: Language tags as datatypes have significant opposition.
Richard Cyganiak: Language tags as datatypes have significant opposition. ←
15:34:53 <Scott_Bauer> ... other proposal with not too much opposition to abandon the untagged strings and leave the tag literals as they are now.
... other proposal with not too much opposition to abandon the untagged strings and leave the tag literals as they are now. ←
15:35:06 <Scott_Bauer> ... leaving plain literals as syntatic sugar
... leaving plain literals as syntatic sugar ←
15:35:39 <Scott_Bauer> ... what problems would we still work out. What does this mean for OWL. Peter raised some concerns
... what problems would we still work out. What does this mean for OWL. Peter raised some concerns ←
15:35:58 <Scott_Bauer> ... some questions about how to deal with this in the syntaxs
... some questions about how to deal with this in the syntaxs ←
15:36:09 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to address OWL concerns
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to address OWL concerns ←
15:36:36 <Scott_Bauer> ... curious to hear if this would raise concerns in OWL and Sparql
... curious to hear if this would raise concerns in OWL and Sparql ←
15:36:58 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll
David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll ←
15:36:58 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to address OWL concerns
Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to address OWL concerns ←
15:37:56 <Scott_Bauer> Jeremy: one of the constraints changes may break OWL. They mean by OWL is OWL DL. Mapping from triples into some other language.
Jeremy Carroll: one of the constraints changes may break OWL. They mean by OWL is OWL DL. Mapping from triples into some other language. ←
15:38:04 <pfps> q+
15:38:07 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
15:38:07 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
15:38:29 <davidwood> ack pfps
David Wood: ack pfps ←
15:38:30 <AndyS> SPARQL -- it's only result of DATATYPE("foo"@en) --> in detail, if class, not datatype, still err but unexpected? SPARQL could just fib a bit and return rdf:LTS.
Andy Seaborne: SPARQL -- it's only result of DATATYPE("foo"@en) --> in detail, if class, not datatype, still err but unexpected? SPARQL could just fib a bit and return rdf:LTS. ←
15:38:32 <Scott_Bauer> ... cause a greater divergence between OWL and RDF.
... cause a greater divergence between OWL and RDF. ←
15:39:24 <Scott_Bauer> Peter: Any change to RDF (substantive) would be changes to OWL RL systems
Peter Patel-Schneider: Any change to RDF (substantive) would be changes to OWL RL systems ←
15:40:08 <Scott_Bauer> Alex: Some details might change in mapping layer, but mapping is transparent for us from rules to sparql queries.
Alex Hall: Some details might change in mapping layer, but mapping is transparent for us from rules to sparql queries. ←
15:40:23 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:40:23 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:40:34 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
15:40:45 <Scott_Bauer> David: Lacking some of the people who could support Richard's proposal are not here.
David Wood: Lacking some of the people who could support Richard's proposal are not here. ←
15:41:04 <davidwood> ack cygri
David Wood: ack cygri ←
15:41:06 <zwu2> I have to leave early to attend a customer meeting
Zhe Wu: I have to leave early to attend a customer meeting ←
15:41:08 <Scott_Bauer> ... Ian is invited to express OWL concerns in the future
... Ian is invited to express OWL concerns in the future ←
15:41:12 <zwu2> bye
15:41:20 <Zakim> - +1.408.642.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.408.642.aaee ←
15:41:48 <Zakim> +??P19
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←
15:41:54 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P23 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P23 is me ←
15:41:54 <Zakim> sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named '??P23'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named '??P23' ←
15:42:00 <Scott_Bauer> Richard: How does this related to sparql. Two places where its affected. Returning a lang type string currently causes an error.
Richard Cyganiak: How does this related to sparql. Two places where its affected. Returning a lang type string currently causes an error. ←
15:42:13 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P33 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P33 is me ←
15:42:13 <Zakim> I already had ??P33 as mischat, yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P33 as mischat, yvesr ←
15:42:14 <pfps> of course, it is not just OWL RL systems that have to change, but also OWL DL systems - my view is that most OWL DL implementers would not care too much, as long as the changes can be fit into OWL DL, changes to the OWL documents might be more problematic
Peter Patel-Schneider: of course, it is not just OWL RL systems that have to change, but also OWL DL systems - my view is that most OWL DL implementers would not care too much, as long as the changes can be fit into OWL DL, changes to the OWL documents might be more problematic ←
15:42:18 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:43:05 <Scott_Bauer> ... serializtion of sparql results xsd: string and plain literal are the same in the design with of those is supposed to be produced. How should code be written.
... serializtion of sparql results xsd: string and plain literal are the same in the design with of those is supposed to be produced. How should code be written. ←
15:43:40 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:44:04 <davidwood> pfps, Alex (Revelytix) is an OWL RL implementor.
David Wood: pfps, Alex (Revelytix) is an OWL RL implementor. ←
15:44:11 <Scott_Bauer> Andy: to the second point. Policy should be consistant between rdf and sparql results.
Andy Seaborne: to the second point. Policy should be consistant between rdf and sparql results. ←
15:45:44 <Scott_Bauer> Lee: One place to serialized it and do so in a simple form. If rdf-wg goes in this direction charter implications may be affected.
Lee Feigenbaum: One place to serialized it and do so in a simple form. If rdf-wg goes in this direction charter implications may be affected. ←
15:45:54 <Scott_Bauer> Ivan: no charter implications
Ivan Herman: no charter implications ←
15:46:12 <AlexHall> We are a RIF implementor. Presumably changes to OWL RL would be reflected as changes to the rules as expressed in the profiles doc. We can handle those changes quite easily.
Alex Hall: We are a RIF implementor. Presumably changes to OWL RL would be reflected as changes to the rules as expressed in the profiles doc. We can handle those changes quite easily. ←
15:46:21 <Scott_Bauer> Richard: The one without the datatype markings should imply the other form is still valid.
Richard Cyganiak: The one without the datatype markings should imply the other form is still valid. ←
15:46:28 <LeeF> ivan, thanks, did not realize that XML results document was already in our charter, so that's something, at least
Lee Feigenbaum: ivan, thanks, did not realize that XML results document was already in our charter, so that's something, at least ←
15:46:31 <davidwood> AlexHall, Thanks
David Wood: AlexHall, Thanks ←
15:46:51 <Scott_Bauer> ... the consumer has to be prepared to deal with eithe form.
... the consumer has to be prepared to deal with eithe form. ←
15:47:36 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:47:38 <Scott_Bauer> David: Not sure where to take this discussion.
David Wood: Not sure where to take this discussion. ←
15:48:14 <Scott_Bauer> Andy: have one proposal to point to. Need a straw man proposal.
Andy Seaborne: have one proposal to point to. Need a straw man proposal. ←
15:48:23 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to mention real disagreement and/or semantics of SHOULD
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to mention real disagreement and/or semantics of SHOULD ←
15:48:48 <Scott_Bauer> David: Asks Richard to prepare the proposal
David Wood: Asks Richard to prepare the proposal ←
15:48:50 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll
David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll ←
15:48:50 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to mention real disagreement and/or semantics of SHOULD
Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to mention real disagreement and/or semantics of SHOULD ←
15:48:56 <Scott_Bauer> Richard: I can do that
Richard Cyganiak: I can do that ←
15:49:16 <davidwood> Thanks to Richard
David Wood: Thanks to Richard ←
15:49:27 <cygri> ACTION: cygri to create up-to-date wiki page on ISSUE-12 proposal incl. arguments from the mailing list
ACTION: cygri to create up-to-date wiki page on ISSUE-12 proposal incl. arguments from the mailing list ←
15:49:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Create up-to-date wiki page on ISSUE-12 proposal incl. arguments from the mailing list [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-06-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-62 - Create up-to-date wiki page on ISSUE-12 proposal incl. arguments from the mailing list [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-06-22]. ←
15:49:28 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:49:32 <Scott_Bauer> Jeremy: For some reason literal design remains a very contentious issue
Jeremy Carroll: For some reason literal design remains a very contentious issue ←
15:50:05 <Scott_Bauer> ... It takes up a lot of time for the working group
... It takes up a lot of time for the working group ←
15:50:40 <Scott_Bauer> ... we will not make everyone happy
... we will not make everyone happy ←
15:50:57 <Scott_Bauer> David: There are too many ways to express literals
David Wood: There are too many ways to express literals ←
15:51:53 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
15:51:53 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
15:52:06 <ericP> i read that as a proposal to discuss the type faces used to represent the number 1 in RDF serializations
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i read that as a proposal to discuss the type faces used to represent the number 1 in RDF serializations ←
15:52:49 <Scott_Bauer> Peter: OWL and RIF spent a lot of time hashing over the addition to literals. If a larger change is made it's a big change to solve a tiny thing.
Peter Patel-Schneider: OWL and RIF spent a lot of time hashing over the addition to literals. If a larger change is made it's a big change to solve a tiny thing. ←
15:52:53 <ericP> (ref to jjc's concearn that literals are too difficult 'cause they matter to too many folks)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: (ref to jjc's concearn that literals are too difficult 'cause they matter to too many folks) ←
15:53:11 <Scott_Bauer> ... strings with lang tags are not very comprehensive.
... strings with lang tags are not very comprehensive. ←
15:53:39 <Souri> I'll be happy if the only change we make is say that "abc" = "abc"^^xsd:string (and SPARQL query result could contain a string literal in either form and still be conformant)
Souripriya Das: I'll be happy if the only change we make is say that "abc" = "abc"^^xsd:string (and SPARQL query result could contain a string literal in either form and still be conformant) ←
15:53:40 <gavin> XML literals for language, oh god... No, no it isn't.
Gavin Carothers: XML literals for language, oh god... No, no it isn't. ←
15:54:04 <Scott_Bauer> ... deprecation of lang type literals would make me happy
... deprecation of lang type literals would make me happy ←
15:54:14 <LeeF> I'd be happy if Souri's happy
Lee Feigenbaum: I'd be happy if Souri's happy ←
15:54:29 <Scott_Bauer> David: Key argument is we have lang type literals and rdf literals
David Wood: Key argument is we have lang type literals and rdf literals ←
15:55:02 <davidwood> The key argument is that we have plain literals, rdf:plainLiteral, and xsd:string literals.
David Wood: The key argument is that we have plain literals, rdf:plainLiteral, and xsd:string literals. ←
15:55:05 <Scott_Bauer> Peter: Any OWL tool will handle any one of these and do the right thing
Peter Patel-Schneider: Any OWL tool will handle any one of these and do the right thing ←
15:55:31 <gavin> I don't think anyone was
Gavin Carothers: I don't think anyone was ←
15:55:46 <Scott_Bauer> David: Who's objecting to collapsing the definitions
David Wood: Who's objecting to collapsing the definitions ←
15:55:59 <LeeF> +10000 to leaving language tags aside :-)
Lee Feigenbaum: +10000 to leaving language tags aside :-) ←
15:56:08 <Scott_Bauer> Gavin: How to do it is the contentious issue
Gavin Carothers: How to do it is the contentious issue ←
15:56:27 <Scott_Bauer> David: Would someone be willing to write up the propsal
David Wood: Would someone be willing to write up the propsal ←
15:56:31 <Scott_Bauer> Richard:
15:56:41 <Scott_Bauer> ... We have that already
... We have that already ←
15:57:04 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain ←
15:58:25 <Scott_Bauer> David: Issue of contention was around sparql.
David Wood: Issue of contention was around sparql. ←
15:58:39 <AndyS> err - datatype("foo") is already xsd:string
Andy Seaborne: err - datatype("foo") is already xsd:string ←
15:59:07 <cygri> AndyS, but currently it needs an exception in the spec to make it so. that exception could go away
Richard Cyganiak: AndyS, but currently it needs an exception in the spec to make it so. that exception could go away ←
15:59:09 <yvesr> AndyS, so it's fine?
Yves Raimond: AndyS, so it's fine? ←
15:59:48 <AlexHall> I thought the SPARQL issue was around results serialization, not datatype("foo")
Alex Hall: I thought the SPARQL issue was around results serialization, not datatype("foo") ←
15:59:49 <AndyS> Yes - it's fine. The output issue is same-as RDF and not covered.
Andy Seaborne: Yes - it's fine. The output issue is same-as RDF and not covered. ←
15:59:55 <Scott_Bauer> David: Requestinng that Lee have a look at the page and provide comments re: sparql
David Wood: Requestinng that Lee have a look at the page and provide comments re: sparql ←
16:00:14 <AndyS> AlexHall, yes - we are only talking simple literals - no langs
Andy Seaborne: AlexHall, yes - we are only talking simple literals - no langs ←
16:00:22 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
16:00:27 <AndyS> AlexHall, yes - we are only talking simple literals - no langs covered in this discussion
Andy Seaborne: AlexHall, yes - we are only talking simple literals - no langs covered in this discussion ←
16:00:29 <Souri> I am worried about "One of the two forms should be forbidden when answering queries over RDF 1.1"
Souripriya Das: I am worried about "One of the two forms should be forbidden when answering queries over RDF 1.1" ←
16:00:41 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to give unrequested advice to chairs
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to give unrequested advice to chairs ←
16:00:45 <pchampin> what would be called a "plain literal" then, anyway?
Pierre-Antoine Champin: what would be called a "plain literal" then, anyway? ←
16:01:04 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
16:01:05 <Scott_Bauer> Lee: Spec has the data issue as an exception. Main concern term that sparql uses for simple literals no longer exist it has a more far reaching effect. Will take a look at it and take it to the sparql working group.
Lee Feigenbaum: Spec has the data issue as an exception. Main concern term that sparql uses for simple literals no longer exist it has a more far reaching effect. Will take a look at it and take it to the sparql working group. ←
16:01:05 <AndyS> Souri, +1 -- and the answer should be use "foo" form.
Andy Seaborne: Souri, +1 -- and the answer should be use "foo" form. ←
16:01:12 <ericP> i think that removing "plain literal" mostly involves removing rows from the operator mapping and conditions for the function definitions
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i think that removing "plain literal" mostly involves removing rows from the operator mapping and conditions for the function definitions ←
16:01:18 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to take http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain to SPARQL WG to gauge the impact on SPARQL process and schedule
ACTION: Lee to take http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain to SPARQL WG to gauge the impact on SPARQL process and schedule ←
16:01:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Take http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain to SPARQL WG to gauge the impact on SPARQL process and schedule [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-06-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-63 - Take http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain to SPARQL WG to gauge the impact on SPARQL process and schedule [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-06-22]. ←
16:01:28 <ericP> (having drafted most of the plain literal text)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: (having drafted most of the plain literal text) ←
16:01:48 <Scott_Bauer> Ivan: procedural issue. The problem of strings was in the charter as a time permits issue.
Ivan Herman: procedural issue. The problem of strings was in the charter as a time permits issue. ←
16:02:00 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
16:02:12 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
16:02:15 <Scott_Bauer> ... it would be ok if the working group decided to postpone the issue
... it would be ok if the working group decided to postpone the issue ←
16:02:18 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
16:02:27 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll
David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll ←
16:02:27 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to give unrequested advice to chairs
Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to give unrequested advice to chairs ←
16:03:12 <Scott_Bauer> Jeremy: If the discussion goes on and on, a proposal vote should be taken
Jeremy Carroll: If the discussion goes on and on, a proposal vote should be taken ←
16:03:28 <davidwood> ack cygri
David Wood: ack cygri ←
16:04:09 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:04:31 <Scott_Bauer> Richard: Yes it's a time permitting issue. We understand what's not possible. I would rather see the straw poll first.
Richard Cyganiak: Yes it's a time permitting issue. We understand what's not possible. I would rather see the straw poll first. ←
16:04:45 <AndyS> SPARQL issue -- simple literal used as return type and arg in various functions - obvious changes though : would fix at least one current bug :-)
Andy Seaborne: SPARQL issue -- simple literal used as return type and arg in various functions - obvious changes though : would fix at least one current bug :-) ←
16:04:57 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
16:05:05 <Scott_Bauer> ... I think we are close to finding something
... I think we are close to finding something ←
16:05:46 <Scott_Bauer> Ivan: Issue has taken up a lot of energy. Named Graphs is something we must do.
Ivan Herman: Issue has taken up a lot of energy. Named Graphs is something we must do. ←
16:06:06 <Scott_Bauer> ... We should not just close it but set a deadline
... We should not just close it but set a deadline ←
16:06:23 <davidwood> Straw poll: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain
David Wood: Straw poll: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain ←
16:06:30 <Scott_Bauer> David: I want a straw poll right now.
David Wood: I want a straw poll right now. ←
16:07:58 <Scott_Bauer> Richard: Just to point out datatype is already xsd:string. If you ask for a datatype it returns string
Richard Cyganiak: Just to point out datatype is already xsd:string. If you ask for a datatype it returns string ←
16:08:21 <pchampin> q+ to ask about the term "plain literal"
Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+ to ask about the term "plain literal" ←
16:08:36 <pchampin> ack me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: ack me ←
16:08:52 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to ask about the term "plain literal"
Zakim IRC Bot: pchampin, you wanted to ask about the term "plain literal" ←
16:08:59 <pfps> ls
16:09:10 <Souri> q+ to ask about the fourth item in the Issues: "SPARQL Results XML/JSON are hampered by the variability introduced by syntactic sugar. One of the two forms should be forbidden when answering queries over RDF 1.1."
Souripriya Das: q+ to ask about the fourth item in the Issues: "SPARQL Results XML/JSON are hampered by the variability introduced by syntactic sugar. One of the two forms should be forbidden when answering queries over RDF 1.1." ←
16:09:29 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
16:09:35 <davidwood> ack Souri
David Wood: ack Souri ←
16:09:38 <pchampin> ok
16:09:41 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←
16:09:47 <Zakim> Souri, you wanted to ask about the fourth item in the Issues: "SPARQL Results XML/JSON are hampered by the variability introduced by syntactic sugar. One of the two forms should be
Zakim IRC Bot: Souri, you wanted to ask about the fourth item in the Issues: "SPARQL Results XML/JSON are hampered by the variability introduced by syntactic sugar. One of the two forms should be ←
16:09:52 <Zakim> ... forbidden when answering queries over RDF 1.1."
Zakim IRC Bot: ... forbidden when answering queries over RDF 1.1." ←
16:10:27 <Scott_Bauer> Souri: variability. Would we require sparql one of the two possible? If we are required to return xsd:string
Souripriya Das: variability. Would we require sparql one of the two possible? If we are required to return xsd:string ←
16:10:37 <Scott_Bauer> ... That is a problem
... That is a problem ←
16:10:43 <LeeF> I imagine it's up to the SPARQL WG how to handle that in the XML format?
Lee Feigenbaum: I imagine it's up to the SPARQL WG how to handle that in the XML format? ←
16:10:55 <gavin> +1 LeeF, someone elses issue
Gavin Carothers: +1 LeeF, someone elses issue ←
16:11:04 <Scott_Bauer> David: if you return quote: foo as a literal you should know that is an xsd:string
David Wood: if you return quote: foo as a literal you should know that is an xsd:string ←
16:11:13 <Scott_Bauer> Souri: thats fine
Souripriya Das: thats fine ←
16:11:21 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
16:11:49 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
16:12:04 <Scott_Bauer> Pierre: A suggestion. Maybe we can keep the plain literal which are semantically an xsd:string
Pierre-Antoine Champin: A suggestion. Maybe we can keep the plain literal which are semantically an xsd:string ←
16:12:27 <LeeF> Pierre++
Lee Feigenbaum: Pierre++ ←
16:12:35 <davidwood> ack cygri
David Wood: ack cygri ←
16:12:39 <Scott_Bauer> David: that makes a lot of sense to me
David Wood: that makes a lot of sense to me ←
16:12:50 <Scott_Bauer> Richard: I agree with this absolutely
Richard Cyganiak: I agree with this absolutely ←
16:13:17 <LeeF> If RDF can do this by adjusting definitions of the existing terms that SPARQL Query leans on, that would be _great_
Lee Feigenbaum: If RDF can do this by adjusting definitions of the existing terms that SPARQL Query leans on, that would be _great_ ←
16:13:37 <Scott_Bauer> David: lets take a quick straw poll
David Wood: lets take a quick straw poll ←
16:13:46 <pfps> like
Peter Patel-Schneider: like ←
16:13:48 <AndyS> +1 and preferred output form (SHOULD -- MUST is hard due to compatibility) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF and in SPARQL results (proposal needs updating to cover this case - not leave open)
Andy Seaborne: +1 and preferred output form (SHOULD -- MUST is hard due to compatibility) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF and in SPARQL results (proposal needs updating to cover this case - not leave open) ←
16:13:52 <davidwood> +1 to our current understanding of the proposal
David Wood: +1 to our current understanding of the proposal ←
16:14:00 <pchampin> +1
16:14:02 <AlexHall> +1
16:14:03 <davidwood> +1 to AndyS
David Wood: +1 to AndyS ←
16:14:07 <LeeF> +1 with Cambridge Semantics hat on, reserving judgment with SPARQL WG chair hat on
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 with Cambridge Semantics hat on, reserving judgment with SPARQL WG chair hat on ←
16:14:11 <Souri> +1 to AndyS
Souripriya Das: +1 to AndyS ←
16:14:13 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
16:14:13 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
16:14:18 <Guus> +1
Guus Schreiber: +1 ←
16:14:19 <cmatheus> +1
Christopher Matheus: +1 ←
16:14:20 <yvesr> +1
Yves Raimond: +1 ←
16:14:23 <gavin> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
16:14:28 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
16:14:45 <JeremyCarroll> +1
Jeremy Carroll: +1 ←
16:14:45 <ivan> 1
Ivan Herman: 1 ←
16:15:15 <gavin> Who cares about language tags? ;)
Gavin Carothers: Who cares about language tags? ;) ←
16:15:17 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
16:15:32 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to give more unsolicited advice
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to give more unsolicited advice ←
16:15:47 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll
David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll ←
16:15:47 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to give more unsolicited advice
Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to give more unsolicited advice ←
16:15:55 <Scott_Bauer> David: We seem to agree on three quarter of this proposal
David Wood: We seem to agree on three quarter of this proposal ←
16:16:05 <Zakim> -FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon ←
16:16:16 <Scott_Bauer> David: Let's take a formal vote since there are no objectsions
David Wood: Let's take a formal vote since there are no objections ←
16:16:37 <Souri> s/objectsions/objections/
16:16:53 <Scott_Bauer> PROPOSAL: Accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain
PROPOSED: Accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain ←
16:17:11 <LeeF> Pat has spent a lot of time restating cygri's proposals, so I imagine he'd be happy with this
Lee Feigenbaum: Pat has spent a lot of time restating cygri's proposals, so I imagine he'd be happy with this ←
16:17:12 <JeremyCarroll> if pat wishes to object he can in the e-mail
Jeremy Carroll: if pat wishes to object he can in the e-mail ←
16:17:23 <JeremyCarroll> and then we deal with that next week
Jeremy Carroll: and then we deal with that next week ←
16:17:31 <JeremyCarroll> same for any wg member
Jeremy Carroll: same for any wg member ←
16:17:41 <davidwood> Propose to accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain with the modification that preferred output form (SHOULD) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF and in SPARQL results
David Wood: Propose to accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain with the modification that preferred output form (SHOULD) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF and in SPARQL results ←
16:18:00 <cygri> +1
Richard Cyganiak: +1 ←
16:18:00 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
16:18:03 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
16:18:06 <AlexHall> +1
16:18:17 <pfps> +1
16:18:31 <Guus> +1
Guus Schreiber: +1 ←
16:18:41 <Scott_Bauer> PROPOSED: Accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain
PROPOSED: Accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain ←
16:19:07 <pfps> Where does the proposal talk about SPARQL? All the SPARQL stuff is in the issues, right?
Peter Patel-Schneider: Where does the proposal talk about SPARQL? All the SPARQL stuff is in the issues, right? ←
16:19:22 <cygri> Propose to accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain with the modification that preferred output form (SHOULD) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF; recommends that SPARQL and other WGs does the same
Richard Cyganiak: Propose to accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain with the modification that preferred output form (SHOULD) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF; recommends that SPARQL and other WGs does the same ←
16:19:29 <gavin> and recomend that any concrete syntax SHOULD use "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string
Gavin Carothers: and recomend that any concrete syntax SHOULD use "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string ←
16:19:34 <LeeF> pfps, just in the proposal that davidwood just wrote on IRC
Lee Feigenbaum: pfps, just in the proposal that davidwood just wrote on IRC ←
16:19:41 <AndyS> pfps - david's proposal says "SPARQL results"
Andy Seaborne: pfps - david's proposal says "SPARQL results" ←
16:19:51 <pfps> Of course, any change to RDF may impact SPARQL, and this does, but that is the main reason why we are doing this now, as opposed to later.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Of course, any change to RDF may impact SPARQL, and this does, but that is the main reason why we are doing this now, as opposed to later. ←
16:20:04 <davidwood> Propose to accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain with the modification that preferred output form (SHOULD) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF; recommends that SPARQL and other WGs does the same
David Wood: Propose to accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain with the modification that preferred output form (SHOULD) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF; recommends that SPARQL and other WGs does the same ←
16:20:06 <cygri> +1
Richard Cyganiak: +1 ←
16:20:09 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
16:20:10 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
16:20:10 <cmatheus> +1
Christopher Matheus: +1 ←
16:20:11 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
16:20:14 <LeeF> +1
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 ←
16:20:21 <JeremyCarroll> +1
Jeremy Carroll: +1 ←
16:20:22 <pfps> ooh, right - I was looking at the wiki page
Peter Patel-Schneider: ooh, right - I was looking at the wiki page ←
16:20:23 <AlexHall> +1
16:20:23 <AndyS> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
16:20:26 <pfps> +1
16:20:27 <gavin> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
16:20:28 <AndyS> (give or take the unicode char 001C)
Andy Seaborne: (give or take the unicode char 001C) ←
16:20:29 <Scott_Bauer> David: Let's vote again on Richard's phrasing
David Wood: Let's vote again on Richard's phrasing ←
16:20:35 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
16:20:41 <davidwood> RESOLVED: to accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain with the modification that preferred output form (SHOULD) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF; recommends that SPARQL and other WGs does the same
RESOLVED: to accept the proposal at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain with the modification that preferred output form (SHOULD) is "foo" not "foo"^^xsd:string in RDF; recommends that SPARQL and other WGs does the same ←
16:20:47 <pchampin> +1
16:21:47 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
16:22:00 <Zakim> -mischat
Zakim IRC Bot: -mischat ←
16:22:01 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
16:22:12 <pfps> OWL already strongly suggests using "foo" in concrete syntaxes
Peter Patel-Schneider: OWL already strongly suggests using "foo" in concrete syntaxes ←
16:22:36 <Scott_Bauer> David: Lee will get back to me in relation to sparql
David Wood: Lee will get back to me in relation to sparql ←
16:22:48 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
16:23:00 <AndyS> ack me
Andy Seaborne: ack me ←
16:23:02 <Scott_Bauer> Andy: Compatability does matter
Andy Seaborne: Compatability does matter ←
16:23:36 <Scott_Bauer> Richard: How do we make sure popular implementers are informed as soon as possible.
Ivan Herman: How do we make sure popular implementers are informed as soon as possible. ←
16:23:40 <gavin> rdflib already does this... sort of... via buggy string implementations ;)
Gavin Carothers: rdflib already does this... sort of... via buggy string implementations ;) ←
16:23:44 <cygri> s/Richard/ivan/
16:23:48 <Scott_Bauer> David: I suggest a blog post.
David Wood: I suggest a blog post. ←
16:24:47 <Scott_Bauer> zakim, who is speaking
zakim, who is speaking ←
16:24:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is speaking', Scott_Bauer
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is speaking', Scott_Bauer ←
16:24:58 <Scott_Bauer> zakim, who is talking
zakim, who is talking ←
16:24:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', Scott_Bauer
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', Scott_Bauer ←
16:25:23 <Zakim> -JeremyCarroll
Zakim IRC Bot: -JeremyCarroll ←
16:25:27 <Scott_Bauer> David: Officially adjourned
David Wood: Officially adjourned ←
16:25:31 <mbrunati> bye
Matteo Brunati: bye ←
16:25:31 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:25:32 <AZ> bye
Antoine Zimmermann: bye ←
16:25:33 <Zakim> -cmatheus
Zakim IRC Bot: -cmatheus ←
16:25:33 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
16:25:34 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:25:34 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:25:35 <Zakim> -mbrunati
Zakim IRC Bot: -mbrunati ←
16:25:35 <Zakim> -[Sophia]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[Sophia] ←
16:25:37 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:25:38 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
16:25:40 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
16:25:42 <Zakim> -gavin
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavin ←
16:25:44 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
16:25:56 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
16:26:06 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
16:31:38 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott_Bauer ←
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