<Arnaud> Present: pchampin, Arnaud, Ashok_Malhotra, BartvanLeeuwen, TallTed, svillata, SteveS, rgarcia, roger, ericP, SteveBattle, nmihindu, cody, krp, bblfish, Yves, sergio
13:55:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/22-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/22-ldp-irc ←
13:55:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
13:55:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
13:55:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
13:55:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:55:57 <trackbot> Date: 22 April 2013
13:58:33 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started ←
13:58:40 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
13:59:11 <pchampin> zakim, ??P3 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
13:59:11 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
14:00:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:00:16 <Zakim> +??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←
14:00:27 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:00:40 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
14:00:46 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra ←
14:00:47 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
14:00:55 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??P8 is me
Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??P8 is me ←
14:00:55 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it ←
14:00:57 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
14:01:10 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
14:01:10 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
14:01:11 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
14:01:11 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:01:13 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:01:35 <svillata> Zakim, ??P12 is me
Serena Villata: Zakim, ??P12 is me ←
14:01:35 <Zakim> +svillata; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +svillata; got it ←
14:01:49 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
14:01:54 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me
Steve Speicher: Zakim, [IBM] is me ←
14:01:55 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it ←
14:02:01 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:02:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see pchampin, [IPcaller], ??P5, Arnaud, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, BartvanLeeuwen, ??P10, svillata, SteveS
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pchampin, [IPcaller], ??P5, Arnaud, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, BartvanLeeuwen, ??P10, svillasta, SteveS ←
14:03:13 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
14:03:36 <rgarcia> zakim, ??P15 is me
Raúl García Castro: zakim, ??P15 is me ←
14:03:36 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +rgarcia; got it ←
14:03:40 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
14:03:43 <Zakim> + +44.208.573.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.208.573.aaaa ←
14:03:43 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice] ←
14:04:00 <Ashok> scribenick: Ashok
(Scribe set to Ashok Malhotra)
14:04:00 <Ashok> chair: Arnaud
<Arnaud> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.04.22
14:04:04 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
14:04:12 <Zakim> +SteveBattle
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveBattle ←
14:04:36 <nmihindu> zakim, ??P17 is me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: zakim, ??P17 is me ←
14:04:36 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it ←
14:04:42 <Zakim> -??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P10 ←
<Ashok> Topic: Admin
14:04:50 <Ashok> subTopic: Minutes from last week
14:04:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:05:00 <Ashok> s/lat/last/
14:05:08 <cody> zakim, IPCaller is me
Cody Burleson: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
14:05:08 <Zakim> +cody; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cody; got it ←
14:05:44 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-04-15
Arnaud Le Hors: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-04-15 ←
14:05:46 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
14:05:47 <Zakim> -??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P5 ←
14:06:06 <krp> zakim, ??P1 is me
Kevin Page: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
14:06:06 <Zakim> +krp; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it ←
14:06:10 <Ashok> Note revised link above
Note revised link above ←
14:06:27 <stevebattle> It was 2012 for the previous minutes as well
Steve Battle: It was 2012 for the previous minutes as well ←
14:06:29 <TallTed> Arnaud - Ashok's link is correct ... differs from yours
Ted Thibodeau: Arnaud - Ashok's link is correct ... differs from yours ←
14:06:58 <TallTed> sorry, I'm wrong. *this* works -- http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-04-15
Ted Thibodeau: sorry, I'm wrong. *this* works -- http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-04-15 ←
14:07:07 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:07:07 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
14:07:41 <Zakim> +bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish ←
14:07:54 <bblfish> object to what?
Henry Story: object to what? ←
14:08:06 <bblfish> ah yes, the meetings from last week.
Henry Story: ah yes, the meetings from last week. ←
14:08:08 <bblfish> thanks
Henry Story: thanks ←
14:08:39 <Ashok> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 4/15 are accepted
RESOLVED: Minutes from 4/15 are accepted ←
14:08:55 <Ashok> subTopic: F2F in Madrid
14:09:02 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
14:09:06 <bblfish> ah that's cool. When is it?
Henry Story: ah that's cool. When is it? ←
14:09:15 <Ashok> Raul has added hotel info to f2f
Raul has added hotel info to f2f ←
14:10:09 <bblfish> When is the next F2F? I have not been following closely enough
Henry Story: When is the next F2F? I have not been following closely enough ←
14:10:12 <Ashok> Arnaud: You can get a hotel anywhere in downtown Madrid and take public transport
Arnaud Le Hors: You can get a hotel anywhere in downtown Madrid and take public transport ←
14:10:25 <Ashok> Raul: Yes ... may take 30 minutes
Raúl García Castro: Yes ... may take 30 minutes ←
14:10:35 <BartvanLeeuwen> +q
Bart van Leeuwen: +q ←
14:10:38 <BartvanLeeuwen> q-
Bart van Leeuwen: q- ←
14:10:47 <bblfish> what was the URL for the next meeting?
Henry Story: what was the URL for the next meeting? ←
14:10:53 <rgarcia> bblfish, it will be June 18-20
Raúl García Castro: bblfish, it will be June 18-20 ←
14:11:02 <bblfish> Mh. ok. thanks perfect
Henry Story: Mh. ok. thanks perfect ←
14:11:02 <rgarcia> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F3
Raúl García Castro: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F3 ←
14:10:45 <Ashok> Topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues
14:11:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:11:38 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
Zakim IRC Bot: -BartvanLeeuwen ←
14:11:45 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:11:45 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:11:49 <TallTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
14:11:49 <cody> Somebody needs to mute.
Cody Burleson: Somebody needs to mute. ←
14:11:52 <sergio> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Sergio Fernández: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
14:11:52 <Zakim> +sergio; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio; got it ←
14:12:00 <Zakim> TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cody (57%), Arnaud (86%), [IPcaller] (56%)
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cody (57%), Arnaud (86%), [IPcaller] (56%) ←
14:12:03 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
14:12:08 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p8 is me
Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??p8 is me ←
14:12:08 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +BartvanLeeuwen; got it ←
14:12:16 <Zakim> -krp
Zakim IRC Bot: -krp ←
14:12:26 <Ashok> Arnaud: Please do your action items
Arnaud Le Hors: Please do your action items ←
14:12:52 <Ashok> Roger: I have been on vacation will try this week
Roger Menday: I have been on vacation will try this week ←
14:13:38 <bblfish> zakim, who is making noise
Henry Story: zakim, who is making noise ←
14:13:38 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is making noise', bblfish ←
14:13:43 <bblfish> zakim who is making noise
Henry Story: zakim who is making noise ←
14:13:51 <Ashok> Arnaud: Nandana, when can you do the review of the PROV documents?
Arnaud Le Hors: Nandana, when can you do the review of the PROV documents? ←
14:14:19 <sergio> Zakim, who's noisy?
Sergio Fernández: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
14:14:25 <nmihindu> Erik has already provided some comments on the mailing list and I will provide mine within next week
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Erik has already provided some comments on the mailing list and I will provide mine within next week ←
14:14:36 <Zakim> sergio, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (29%)
Zakim IRC Bot: sergio, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (29%) ←
14:15:07 <Ashok> Arnaud: No new issues
Arnaud Le Hors: No new issues ←
<Ashok> Topic: Open Issues
14:15:38 <Ashok> subTopic: ISSUE-35: POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI
14:15:43 <bblfish> Issue-35?
14:15:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-35 -- POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-35 -- POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI -- open ←
14:15:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/35
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/35 ←
14:16:18 <Ashok> Arnaud: There has been a long discussion on this
Arnaud Le Hors: There has been a long discussion on this ←
14:16:57 <bblfish> but restoring a URL with a POST should not be a good reason. Use a PUT then
Henry Story: but restoring a URL with a POST should not be a good reason. Use a PUT then ←
14:17:22 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
14:17:29 <krp> zakim, ??P1 is me
Kevin Page: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
14:17:29 <Zakim> +krp; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it ←
14:17:42 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
14:18:03 <BartvanLeeuwen_> Zakim, ??p21 is me
Bart van Leeuwen: Zakim, ??p21 is me ←
14:18:11 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:18:23 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:18:31 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-35: POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI, by adding that servers SHOULD not reuse URLs while acknowledging that they MAY under certain circumstances, per Arnaud's suggestion
PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-35: POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI, by adding that servers SHOULD not reuse URLs while acknowledging that they MAY under certain circumstances, per Arnaud's suggestion ←
14:18:35 <Ashok> Arnaud: I suggest we say servers SHOULD not reuse URIs ... but may be reused in some cases
Arnaud Le Hors: I suggest we say servers SHOULD not reuse URIs ... but may be reused in some cases ←
14:18:49 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:18:49 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
14:18:59 <TallTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
14:19:12 <ericP> I don't think we need to encourage re-use. just say "SHOULD"
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I don't think we need to encourage re-use. just say "SHOULD" ←
14:19:15 <Arnaud> ack tallted
Arnaud Le Hors: ack tallted ←
14:19:17 <stevebattle> Exactly, Ted swayed me to his cause with this compelling argument as well about not being able to guarantee this after a reboot.
Steve Battle: Exactly, Ted swayed me to his cause with this compelling argument as well about not being able to guarantee this after a reboot. ←
14:19:27 <Ashok> bblfish: ... Due to past history being lost
Henry Story: ... Due to past history being lost ←
14:19:30 <cody> +1
Cody Burleson: +1 ←
14:19:31 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
14:19:32 <rgarcia> +1
Raúl García Castro: +1 ←
14:19:33 <bblfish> +1
Henry Story: +1 ←
14:19:33 <stevebattle> +1
Steve Battle: +1 ←
14:19:34 <Ashok> +1
+1 ←
14:19:34 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:19:35 <SteveS> +1
Steve Speicher: +1 ←
14:19:36 <sergio> +1
Sergio Fernández: +1 ←
14:19:38 <roger> +1
Roger Menday: +1 ←
14:19:41 <krp> +1
Kevin Page: +1 ←
14:19:41 <svillata> +1
Serena Villata: +1 ←
14:19:45 <Yves> +1
Yves Lafon: +1 ←
14:19:46 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:19:46 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:19:47 <pchampin> +1
14:19:48 <nmihindu> +1
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +1 ←
14:19:58 <Arnaud> Resolved: Close ISSUE-35: POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI, by adding that servers SHOULD not reuse URLs while acknowledging that they MAY under certain circumstances, per Arnaud's suggestion
RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-35: POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI, by adding that servers SHOULD not reuse URLs while acknowledging that they MAY under certain circumstances, per Arnaud's suggestion ←
14:20:20 <bblfish> Issue-59?
14:20:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-59 -- Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior -- open ←
14:20:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59 ←
14:20:37 <Ashok> subTopic: ISSUE-59: Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior
14:21:30 <Ashok> Arnaud: Discusses the issue and current positions
Arnaud Le Hors: Discusses the issue and current positions ←
14:21:55 <Ashok> ... SteveS had suggested a single type of container
... SteveS had suggested a single type of container ←
14:22:50 <Ashok> ... if container deleted it goes away ... server MAY delete some of the contained resources
... if container deleted it goes away ... server MAY delete some of the contained resources ←
14:23:45 <Ashok> ... some folks want an attribute that says members are deleted or not
... some folks want an attribute that says members are deleted or not ←
14:24:07 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:24:32 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:24:41 <TallTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
14:24:46 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:24:46 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
14:25:51 <Ashok> bblfish: You could create a weak container ...
Henry Story: You could create a weak container ... ←
14:26:13 <bblfish> <.> ldp:contains <>
Henry Story: <.> ldp:contains <> ←
14:26:46 <roger> I think if you are POSTing to a container, then it is always a 'strong member', IMO.
Roger Menday: I think if you are POSTing to a container, then it is always a 'strong member', IMO. ←
14:26:49 <Ashok> ... That would be a strong member ... if not it would be a weak member
... That would be a strong member ... if not it would be a weak member ←
14:28:20 <pchampin> q+
14:28:36 <Arnaud> ack tallted
Arnaud Le Hors: ack tallted ←
14:29:08 <Ashok> Ted: Decisions were made and then we decided we did not consider everything
Ted Thibodeau: Decisions were made and then we realized we did not consider everything ←
14:29:23 <Ashok> ... I would rather not revisit decisions
... I would rather not revisit decisions ←
14:29:32 <Arnaud> ack pchampin
Arnaud Le Hors: ack pchampin ←
14:29:41 <pchampin> (sorry my voip is very bad)
Pierre-Antoine Champin: (sorry my voip is very bad) ←
14:29:43 <pchampin> I'll type
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I'll type ←
14:29:50 <bblfish> Well Ted, the vote for weak aggregation was very weak. 2+1 only, so it was not that strong
Henry Story: Well Ted, the vote for weak aggregation was very weak. 2+1 only, so it was not that strong ←
14:29:55 <pchampin> If we decide that containers are mostly for creating resources
Pierre-Antoine Champin: If we decide that containers are mostly for creating resources ←
14:29:58 <TallTed> s/then we decided/then we realized/
14:30:06 <pchampin> and have no comitment w.r.t delete
Pierre-Antoine Champin: and have no comitment w.r.t delete ←
14:30:14 <pchampin> may be it would be better to rename them otherwise
Pierre-Antoine Champin: may be it would be better to rename them otherwise ←
14:30:18 <pchampin> factory?
Pierre-Antoine Champin: factory? ←
14:30:57 <SteveS> q+
Steve Speicher: q+ ←
14:31:06 <pchampin> ./me sorry TallTed, I wasn't there, and I missed that in the minutes, then...
Pierre-Antoine Champin: ./me sorry TallTed, I wasn't there, and I missed that in the minutes, then... ←
14:31:19 <roger> creation, pagination, update
Roger Menday: creation, pagination, update ←
14:31:29 <Arnaud> ack steves
Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves ←
14:32:14 <Ashok> SteveS: Maybe we could agree on semantics and leave naming for later
Steve Speicher: Maybe we could agree on semantics and leave naming for later ←
14:33:10 <Ashok> ... Henry suggested that a contains relation could be added when a member is added and these would
... Henry suggested that a contains relation could be added when a member is added and these would ←
14:33:29 <Ashok> ... deleted when container is deleted
... deleted when container is deleted ←
14:33:44 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:33:44 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:33:59 <Ashok> ... lot of open issues with contains type model as well
... lot of open issues with contains type model as well ←
14:34:30 <bblfish> q?
Henry Story: q? ←
14:35:02 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: close ISSUE-59 per Steve's suggestion, per Arnaud's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0088.html
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-59 per Steve's suggestion, per Arnaud's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0088.html ←
14:35:17 <Ashok> Arnaud: Let me make a proposal ...
Arnaud Le Hors: Let me make a proposal ... ←
14:35:19 <TallTed> so you're proposing the first option from your mail?
Ted Thibodeau: so you're proposing the first option from your mail? ←
14:35:30 <cody> +1 (with questions)
Cody Burleson: +1 (with questions) ←
14:35:36 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
14:35:39 <SteveS> +1
Steve Speicher: +1 ←
14:35:45 <sergio> +0
Sergio Fernández: +0 ←
14:35:47 <roger> +1 (first option)
Roger Menday: +1 (first option) ←
14:35:54 <svillata> +1
Serena Villata: +1 ←
14:35:56 <bblfish> -0.7 (not sure why we have problems with what is there now)
Henry Story: -0.7 (not sure why we have problems with what is there now) ←
14:35:57 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:35:57 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
14:36:12 <rgarcia> +1
Raúl García Castro: +1 ←
14:36:13 <BartvanLeeuwen_> +1
Bart van Leeuwen: +1 ←
14:36:24 <nmihindu> +1
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +1 ←
14:36:37 <TallTed> +1 I can live with this
Ted Thibodeau: +1 I can live with this ←
14:36:40 <Ashok> -1
-1 ←
14:36:46 <stevebattle> +1
Steve Battle: +1 ←
14:36:50 <krp> +1
Kevin Page: +1 ←
14:36:53 <pchampin> +0
14:37:03 <stevebattle> q+
Steve Battle: q+ ←
14:37:17 <Ashok> Arnaud: We have a single type of container and postpone the recursive delete issue
Arnaud Le Hors: We have a single type of container and postpone the recursive delete issue ←
14:38:14 <TallTed> it's all here -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0088.html
Ted Thibodeau: it's all here -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0088.html ←
14:39:02 <Arnaud> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0088.html
Arnaud Le Hors: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0088.html ←
14:40:08 <TallTed> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/14
Ted Thibodeau: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/14 ←
14:40:12 <bblfish> Issue-59?
14:40:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-59 -- Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior -- open ←
14:40:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59 ←
14:41:09 <SteveS> DRAFT PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-59 by having only 1 single type of container: ldp:Container, deletion of container will remove membership triples (server may remove member resources), put recursive delete on wish list
Steve Speicher: DRAFT PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-59 by having only 1 single type of container: ldp:Container, deletion of container will remove membership triples (server may remove member resources), put recursive delete on wish list ←
14:41:42 <TallTed> it's here now -- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59
Ted Thibodeau: it's here now -- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59 ←
14:41:44 <TallTed> dangit
Ted Thibodeau: dangit ←
14:41:56 <Ashok> q+
q+ ←
14:42:05 <stevebattle> q-
Steve Battle: q- ←
14:42:46 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:42:57 <bblfish> What's the difference between these two options?
Henry Story: What's the difference between these two options? ←
14:43:03 <Arnaud> STRAWPOLL: option A, option B from note at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59
STRAWPOLL: option A, option B from note at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59 ←
14:43:11 <stevebattle> Bart has the best excuses for leaving a meeting.
Steve Battle: Bart has the best excuses for leaving a meeting. ←
14:43:57 <TallTed> A +0 B +0.5 (I'd prefer B to have "SHOULD delete ldp:contains" rather than MUST)
Ted Thibodeau: A +0 B +0.5 (I'd prefer B to have "SHOULD delete ldp:contains" rather than MUST) ←
14:44:16 <ericP> A:+1, B:-.5
Eric Prud'hommeaux: A:+1, B:-.5 ←
14:44:27 <stevebattle> +1,0
Steve Battle: +1,0 ←
14:44:48 <Arnaud> ack ashok
Arnaud Le Hors: ack ashok ←
14:44:57 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:45:13 <SteveS> +1, -0.51
Steve Speicher: +1, -0.51 ←
14:45:31 <pchampin> A:+0 B:-1
Pierre-Antoine Champin: A:+0 B:-1 ←
14:45:33 <rgarcia> A:+1, B:-0.49
Raúl García Castro: A:+1, B:-0.49 ←
14:45:47 <ericP> q+
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ ←
14:45:56 <nmihindu> A: +1, B: 0
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: A: +1, B: 0 ←
14:46:24 <roger> A: +1, B: -1
Roger Menday: A: +1, B: -1 ←
14:46:36 <ericP> ack me
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ack me ←
14:46:44 <sergio> ok, after thinking a bit, I change my vote: A: +1, B: 0
Sergio Fernández: ok, after thinking a bit, I change my vote: A: +1, B: 0 ←
14:46:51 <cody> q+
Cody Burleson: q+ ←
14:47:43 <Arnaud> ack cody
Arnaud Le Hors: ack cody ←
14:48:20 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:48:41 <pchampin> q+
14:49:09 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:49:17 <krp> A: +0.8, B: -0.2
Kevin Page: A: +0.8, B: -0.2 ←
14:50:10 <Ashok> Henry: Asks why not 2 kinds of containers ... we should recap arguments that appeaed after TPAC
Henry Story: Asks why not 2 kinds of containers ... we should recap arguments that appeaed after TPAC ←
14:50:30 <SteveS> q+
Steve Speicher: q+ ←
14:50:32 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:50:32 <Zakim> TallTed was not muted, TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed was not muted, TallTed ←
14:50:35 <Ashok> ... you shouldn't be deleting stuff on the Web in any case
... you shouldn't be deleting stuff on the Web in any case ←
14:51:51 <Ashok> Ted: Argus by analogy with file system ... you have to delete members manually
Ted Thibodeau: Argues by analogy with file system ... you have to delete members manually ←
14:52:13 <Ashok> s/Argus/Argues/
14:52:26 <ericP> DELETE -r /container HTTP/1.0 ?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: DELETE -r /container HTTP/1.0 ? ←
14:52:33 <Ashok> ... people find that tedious
... people find that tedious ←
14:52:47 <pchampin> bblfish: and by the way, you don't really delete the file (in *nix filesystems at least) by removingit from a directory
Henry Story: and by the way, you don't really delete the file (in *nix filesystems at least) by removingit from a directory [ Scribe Assist by Pierre-Antoine Champin ] ←
14:53:11 <pchampin> ... it only gets deleted when no hard link to it exists anymore
Pierre-Antoine Champin: ... it only gets deleted when no hard link to it exists anymore ←
14:54:00 <ericP> pchampin, oof, another challenge associated with recurssive delete, *known* links to a contained resource
Eric Prud'hommeaux: pchampin, oof, another challenge associated with recurssive delete, *known* links to a contained resource ←
14:54:07 <SteveS> If people want filesystem semantics, I wonder why they just don't use WebDAV
Steve Speicher: If people want filesystem semantics, I wonder why they just don't use WebDAV ←
14:54:28 <ericP> SteveS, does WebDAV offer recurssive delete?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: SteveS, does WebDAV offer recurssive delete? ←
14:54:37 <Arnaud> ack pchampin
Arnaud Le Hors: ack pchampin ←
14:54:40 <pchampin> about option B: As an implementer, I don't feel comfortable in letting the client deciding which resources are strongly contained and which are not. I would rather leave it to the implementation to decide that.
Pierre-Antoine Champin: about option B: As an implementer, I don't feel comfortable in letting the client deciding which resources are strongly contained and which are not. I would rather leave it to the implementation to decide that. ←
14:54:54 <Ashok> Arnaud: We have a third option ... keep spec as is ... two types of containers
Arnaud Le Hors: We have a third option ... keep spec as is ... two types of containers ←
14:55:06 <SteveS> ericP, that is the default model and only one
Steve Speicher: ericP, that is the default model and only one ←
14:55:18 <cody> q+
Cody Burleson: q+ ←
14:55:29 <pchampin> hence my -1 on option B
Pierre-Antoine Champin: hence my -1 on option B ←
14:55:48 <Arnaud> ack steves
Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves ←
14:56:04 <bblfish> pchampin: I don't think option B is saying the client would decide that.
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I don't think option B is saying the client would decide that. [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ] ←
14:56:34 <Ashok> SteveS: Agrees with pchampin argument
Steve Speicher: Agrees with pchampin argument ←
14:57:11 <Ashok> ... if we have 2 types of containers we need to define how we can switch from to another, etc.
... if we have 2 types of containers we need to define how we can switch from to another, etc. ←
14:57:20 <Arnaud> ack cody
Arnaud Le Hors: ack cody ←
14:57:40 <stevebattle> I never liked the two different kinds of containers.
Steve Battle: I never liked the two different kinds of containers. ←
14:58:12 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
14:58:50 <Ashok> Ashok: I was worried about DELETE semantics
Ashok Malhotra: I was worried about DELETE semantics ←
14:59:18 <cody> +0.5
Cody Burleson: +0.5 ←
14:59:22 <pchampin> @bblfish: may be I misread item 3; I was assuming that the client can specify the ldp:contains arc at POST time
Pierre-Antoine Champin: @bblfish: may be I misread item 3; I was assuming that the client can specify the ldp:contains arc at POST time ←
14:59:34 <roger> +1
Roger Menday: +1 ←
14:59:34 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: close ISSUE-59 per Steve's suggestion, option A in note http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-59 per Steve's suggestion, option A in note http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59 ←
14:59:39 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:59:41 <bblfish> pchampin: that was something I was thinking of
Pierre-Antoine Champin: that was something I was thinking of [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ] ←
14:59:42 <SteveS> +1
Steve Speicher: +1 ←
14:59:46 <rgarcia> +1
Raúl García Castro: +1 ←
14:59:47 <sergio> +1
Sergio Fernández: +1 ←
14:59:48 <pchampin> @bblfish: re-reading it, that's still how I understand it...
Pierre-Antoine Champin: @bblfish: re-reading it, that's still how I understand it... ←
14:59:49 <svillata> +1
Serena Villata: +1 ←
15:00:48 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
15:01:04 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:01:17 <Ashok> Ashok: Option A may cut off an option for recursive delete
Ashok Malhotra: Option A may cut off an option for recursive delete ←
15:01:59 <stevebattle> +1
Steve Battle: +1 ←
15:02:09 <SteveS> bblfish, the origins of this issue is that it is not simple…per discussions at Cambridge
Steve Speicher: bblfish, the origins of this issue is that it is not simple…per discussions at Cambridge ←
15:02:11 <Ashok> Henry: Perhaps work out option B more fully
Henry Story: Perhaps work out option B more fully ←
15:02:33 <Ashok> Arnaud: Please send mail with worked out proposals
Arnaud Le Hors: Please send mail with worked out proposals ←
15:02:46 <sergio> one additional week to discuss by mail make sense
Sergio Fernández: one additional week to discuss by mail make sense ←
15:03:09 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
15:03:14 <bblfish> thanks
Henry Story: thanks ←
15:03:15 <Zakim> -cody
Zakim IRC Bot: -cody ←
15:03:17 <Ashok> Arnaud: Let's take a week otherwise we will close with option A
Arnaud Le Hors: Let's take a week otherwise we will close with option A ←
15:03:19 <Zakim> -Yves
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yves ←
15:03:22 <Arnaud> MEETING ADJOURNED
Arnaud Le Hors: MEETING ADJOURNED ←
15:03:22 <Zakim> - +44.208.573.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.208.573.aaaa ←
15:03:24 <Zakim> -sergio
Zakim IRC Bot: -sergio ←
15:03:25 <Zakim> -SteveS
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS ←
15:03:25 <Zakim> -svillata
Zakim IRC Bot: -svillata ←
15:03:26 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
15:03:26 <Zakim> -nmihindu
Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu ←
15:03:29 <Zakim> -krp
Zakim IRC Bot: -krp ←
15:03:31 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:03:31 <Zakim> -SteveBattle
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveBattle ←
15:03:32 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra ←
15:03:33 <Zakim> -rgarcia
Zakim IRC Bot: -rgarcia ←
15:03:36 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
15:08:37 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, BartvanLeeuwen, in SW_LDP()10:00AM
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, BartvanLeeuwen, in SW_LDP()10:00AM ←
15:08:38 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended ←
15:08:38 <Zakim> Attendees were pchampin, Arnaud, Ashok_Malhotra, BartvanLeeuwen, TallTed, svillata, SteveS, rgarcia, +44.208.573.aaaa, ericP, SteveBattle, nmihindu, cody, krp, bblfish, Yves,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pchampin, Arnaud, Ashok_Malhotra, BartvanLeeuwen, TallTed, svillata, SteveS, rgarcia, +44.208.573.aaaa, ericP, SteveBattle, nmihindu, cody, krp, bblfish, Yves, ←
15:08:38 <Zakim> ... sergio
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sergio ←
15:13:46 <BartvanLeeuwen_> sorry about that ;)
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Bart van Leeuwen: sorry about that ;) ←
15:19:33 <BartvanLeeuwen_> got the RDF to prove it: http://data.brandweeraa.nl/data/messages/c89b8140690204b1f10bc27edd81b86eede3003f
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Bart van Leeuwen: got the RDF to prove it: http://data.brandweeraa.nl/data/messages/c89b8140690204b1f10bc27edd81b86eede3003f ←
15:19:35 <BartvanLeeuwen_> cya
Bart van Leeuwen: cya ←
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