16:01:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:01:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/19-html-a11y-irc
16:01:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:01:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
16:01:39 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
16:01:40 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:01:40 <trackbot> Date: 19 December 2013
16:01:50 <janina_> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:51 <Zakim> apparently WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended, janina_
16:01:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, aardrian, MarkS___, MarkS__, plh, chaals, LJWatson, Judy, davidb, SteveF, MarkS_, MarkS, cabanier, hober, janina_, janina, Zakim, trackbot
16:01:59 <rubys> rubys has joined #html-a11y
16:02:40 <plh> zakim, list conferences
16:02:40 <Zakim> I see UW_WebRTC()11:00AM, I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM active
16:02:42 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are VB_VBWG(CCXML)11:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, UW_DAP()10:00AM, SW_HCLS(TMO)11:00AM, SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM, Styl_XSL-FO-()11:00AM, Team_Comm()10:00AM,
16:02:42 <Zakim> ... SW_(PROV)11:00AM, Team_(html-chairs)15:05Z, T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM, XML_QueryWG(XSLT)11:00AM
16:02:50 <chaals> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:50 <Zakim> apparently WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended, chaals
16:02:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see rubys, RRSAgent, aardrian, MarkS___, MarkS__, plh, chaals, LJWatson, Judy, davidb, SteveF, MarkS_, MarkS, cabanier, hober, janina_, janina, Zakim, trackbot
16:02:57 <chaals> zakim, this is wai
16:02:57 <Zakim> ok, chaals; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
16:03:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:03:04 <chaals> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P10, Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], Plh, John_Foliot, [IPcaller.a]
16:03:08 <janina_> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P10, Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], Plh, John_Foliot, [IPcaller.a]
16:03:12 <chaals> zakim, [ipcaller.a is me
16:03:12 <Zakim> +chaals; got it
16:03:18 <janina_> zakim, ??P10 is me
16:03:19 <Zakim> +janina_; got it
16:03:22 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:03:36 <chaals> zakim, [ip is leonie
16:03:36 <Zakim> +leonie; got it
16:03:38 <paulc_> paulc_ has joined #html-a11y
16:04:03 <paulc_> zakim, what is the code?
16:04:03 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc_
16:04:17 <chaals> agenda+ Longdesc CfC
16:04:17 <chaals> agenda+ MSE response and ongoing issue
16:04:17 <chaals> agenda+ subteam - Bug triage <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/18-a11y-bugs-minutes.html>
16:04:17 <chaals> agenda+ subteam - Canvas <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html>
16:04:18 <chaals> agenda+ Any Other Business
16:04:25 <chaals> zakim, close item 1
16:04:25 <Zakim> agendum 1, Should work on drawCustomFocusRing go to L2?, closed
16:04:26 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:04:26 <Zakim> 3. Should scrollPathIntoView refer to fallback elements rather than "notional children" having a defined location? [from MarkS]
16:04:31 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:04:35 <chaals> zakim, close item 3
16:04:35 <Zakim> agendum 3, Should scrollPathIntoView refer to fallback elements rather than "notional children" having a defined location?, closed
16:04:37 <MarkS> scribe: aardrian
16:04:38 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:04:38 <Zakim> 4. next meeting date [from MarkS]
16:04:42 <chaals> zakim, close item 4
16:04:42 <Zakim> agendum 4, next meeting date, closed
16:04:43 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:04:43 <Zakim> 5. Longdesc CfC [from chaals]
16:04:43 <paulc_> zakim, [Microsoft] has me
16:04:44 <Zakim> +paulc_; got it
16:04:59 <chaals> scribe: Adrian
16:05:15 <chaals> scribenick: aardrian
16:05:23 <chaals> chair: chaals
16:05:26 <chaals> zakim, next agendum
16:05:27 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Longdesc CfC" taken up [from chaals]
16:05:40 <Zakim> +Judy
16:06:02 <chaals> Topic: Longdesc CfC
16:06:35 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
16:06:43 <MarkS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Dec/0077.html Longdesc CfC
16:06:55 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:07:25 <aardrian> CMN: Longdesc CfC request to publish as standalone spec. Any questions for process?
16:07:58 <chaals> q+
16:08:13 <aardrian> PC: Normative references language, is that part of HTML5 considered stable?
16:08:24 <aardrian> CMN: Yes. Specifically the <img> element.
16:09:09 <aardrian> PC: Robin's work should have reference material to prove this assertion.
16:09:11 <plh> --> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tests-cr-exit/ HTML5 CR exit criteria status
16:10:06 <chaals> zakim, close this item
16:10:08 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, chaals
16:10:13 <chaals> q?
16:10:15 <chaals> q-
16:10:18 <chaals> zakim, close this item
16:10:18 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
16:10:19 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:10:19 <Zakim> 6. MSE response and ongoing issue [from chaals]
16:10:32 <chaals> Topic: MSE response and ongoing issue.
16:10:58 <plh> q+
16:11:27 <aardrian> CMN: Media Group rejected a11y TF request for MSE.
16:11:48 <aardrian> CMN: Propsed change was editorial, shouldn't prevent spec from going to CR.
16:12:45 <aardrian> CMN: Minimum code example doesn't afford for sign language track.
16:13:13 <paulc_> q+
16:13:17 <aardrian> CMN: Resolution notes that if consensus changes, then TF may change recommendation.
16:13:21 <chaals> ack plh
16:14:34 <aardrian> PLH: MSE as API to attached to <video> to expand it.
16:14:52 <aardrian> PLH: Satisfying use case requires two sources at a time.
16:15:00 <Judy> q+
16:15:29 <aardrian> PLH: <video> can only play one element at time (unlike <audio>).
16:15:59 <paulc_> q-
16:16:01 <paulc_> q+
16:16:05 <aardrian> PLH: Supporting sign language use case requires two <video>s or embedded in one track.
16:16:15 <JF> Q+ to ask why it can only support 1 video, but more than 1 audio?
16:17:05 <aardrian> PLH: MSE defines new kind of video source. Different from <video> restriction.
16:17:31 <aardrian> JS: From where does synchronization come?
16:18:02 <aardrian> PLH: From media @group as defined in HTML5. Not MSE's job to do that.
16:18:45 <MarkS> q+ to ask what happens if you have an MSE src (dynamic) with static sign language video
16:18:52 <paulc_> q-
16:18:54 <paulc_> q+
16:19:44 <JF> ack JF
16:19:44 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask why it can only support 1 video, but more than 1 audio?
16:19:57 <aardrian> CMN: MSE allows you to choose different sources based on things like bandwidth.
16:21:05 <chaals> ack judy
16:21:06 <aardrian> PLH: Media controller handles synch, MSE handles source.
16:22:28 <aardrian> JB: Discussing different working groups who have been involved in discussion (PFWG, A11Y TF, etc.)
16:22:43 <chaals> s/MSE allows/If it isn't directly MSE but an intermediate layer (which I hadn't seen from the spec), or HTML, that allows/
16:23:06 <aardrian> JB: We may not be fully investigating where use cases intersect.
16:23:26 <chaals> s/like bandwidth/like bandwidth, then I think our comment doesn't belong on MSE (but think we want it somewhere and I'm not sure where :S )/
16:24:12 <janina_> q+
16:24:14 <chaals> zakim, mute leonie
16:24:14 <Zakim> leonie should now be muted
16:24:27 <paulc_> q-
16:24:29 <paulc_> q+
16:24:31 <chaals> zakim, unmute leonie
16:24:31 <Zakim> leonie should no longer be muted
16:24:42 <chaals> ack mark
16:24:42 <Zakim> MarkS, you wanted to ask what happens if you have an MSE src (dynamic) with static sign language video
16:25:58 <aardrian> JB: Wants to look at use cases for a11y and how analyzed when intersecting other groups, translations.
16:26:54 <aardrian> MS: If MSE is dynamic stream, and there is static sign language track, does MSE tell media controller of timeline change?
16:27:23 <aardrian> PLH: No. There is only one timeline for the controller, MSE defines that.
16:27:50 <aardrian> PLH: That would require JavaScript to implement.
16:28:30 <aardrian> MS: So it is technically possible, but requires some scripting-fu.
16:28:58 <chaals> q+ to point out that more than one audio track has mutliple known use cases too.
16:29:02 <chaals> ack jan
16:29:36 <aardrian> JS: Thanks to PLH for explanation. Now willing to back off from previous concerns.
16:29:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
16:30:01 <aardrian> JS: Concern still around not knowing robustness (via WCAG) within MSE.
16:30:23 <Judy> s/Discussing different working groups who have been involved in discussion (PFWG, A11Y TF, etc.)/I support Philippe's concern (that the sign language use case requires more than one embedded <video>); partly this concern comes from review of Media User Accessibility Requirements doc (from PFWG and HTML-A11y TF)/
16:31:27 <paulc_> For an example demo see the WWDC reference in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Dec/0030.html
16:31:32 <chaals> ack pau
16:31:38 <aardrian> JS: Wants to make a focus for 2014, to identify weaknesses for supporting multilingual, etc.
16:32:28 <aardrian> PC: Link to demo showing it in action in Safari, including synchronizing to media streams.
16:32:54 <aardrian> JS: Suggesting going more from proof of concept to full suite.
16:33:04 <Judy> s/We may not be fully investigating where use cases intersect./My concern is that we may be insufficiently analyzing two situations: (1) where accessibility solutions require delivery through multiple W3C technologies, that may be at different stages of evolution; (2) where accessibility use cases may overlap with other use cases such as presentation of translations in other human languages/
16:34:05 <aardrian> PC: Believes bugs should be opened at HTML5, not MSE, related to these isues.
16:34:45 <chaals> ack me
16:34:45 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to point out that more than one audio track has mutliple known use cases too.
16:36:47 <aardrian> CMN: Immediate focus is about dealing with this issue, not losing focus on a11y, not getting in way of Media TF.
16:37:32 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:37:50 <aardrian> CMN: May be parallel issue to sign language use case - support for second audio track.
16:38:16 <janina_> The use case Charles is discussing is called "Clean Audio" in the User Requirements doc
16:38:26 <aardrian> CMN: Suggesting holding onto bug until we understand overall spec  better.
16:38:58 <aardrian> CMN: Should communicate to Media TF that we are still learning spec, applying use cases.
16:39:32 <Judy> q+
16:39:36 <aardrian> JS: References "clean audio" in user reqs doc.
16:39:37 <chaals> ack ju
16:39:59 <chaals> zakim, agenda?
16:39:59 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:40:00 <Zakim> 6. MSE response and ongoing issue [from chaals]
16:40:00 <Zakim> 7. subteam - Bug triage <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/18-a11y-bugs-minutes.html> [from chaals]
16:40:00 <Zakim> 8. subteam - Canvas <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html> [from chaals]
16:40:00 <Zakim> 9. Any Other Business [from chaals]
16:40:13 <janina_> q+
16:40:32 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:40:47 <aardrian> JB: Looking at media a11y requirements with PLH, thinks it's worth reviewing to make sure we are current.
16:41:05 <chaals> q+
16:41:17 <JF> Q+
16:41:29 <aardrian> JB: Wants to get working on that in early January, coordinate with other groups sooner rather than later.
16:41:42 <chaals> ack jan
16:42:37 <aardrian> JS: PFWG - got to review edits, almost through them all at TPAC.
16:43:11 <aardrian> JS: Understand there needs to be more care looking at a11y requirements.
16:43:14 <chaals> ack me
16:43:41 <aardrian> CMN: Great to have media team collaborating, but resource constraints are an issue.
16:44:01 <chaals> ack JF
16:44:09 <aardrian> CMN: Will try to make self available in part of January.
16:44:23 <MarkS> expresses interest and availability in Media Sub Team
16:44:48 <aardrian> JF: Ideally before 23rd.
16:45:40 <chaals> zakim, close this item
16:45:40 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals
16:45:50 <chaals> Topic: Bug Triage
16:45:58 <chaals> zakim, close item 6
16:45:58 <Zakim> agendum 6, MSE response and ongoing issue, closed
16:45:59 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:45:59 <Zakim> 7. subteam - Bug triage <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/18-a11y-bugs-minutes.html> [from chaals]
16:46:19 <aardrian> LW: Quick meeting yesterday. Two bugs to be tracked.
16:47:22 <aardrian> LW: Changes in process to keep them moving.
16:47:28 <chaals> Topic: Canvas subteam
16:47:37 <chaals> zakim, close this agendum
16:47:37 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals
16:47:49 <chaals> zakim, close item 7
16:47:49 <Zakim> agendum 7, subteam - Bug triage <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/18-a11y-bugs-minutes.html>, closed
16:47:52 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:47:52 <Zakim> 8. subteam - Canvas <http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html> [from chaals]
16:48:15 <aardrian> MS: Discussed CfC to drop CustomFocusRing, decided best to move to Level 2.
16:48:35 <aardrian> MS: Any work on open bugs still continuing, targeting L1 and L2.
16:48:49 <chaals> zakim, who is making noise?
16:49:02 <Zakim> chaals, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mark_Sadecki (39%), John_Foliot (65%)
16:49:11 <chaals> zakim, mute John_Foliot
16:49:11 <Zakim> John_Foliot should now be muted
16:49:23 <aardrian> MS: Moved some bugs along.
16:49:48 <aardrian> MS: Next meeting, Monday, January 6, 6pm Boston time.
16:49:52 <paulc_> q+
16:49:59 <chaals> ack pa
16:50:18 <aardrian> PC: Do you have a ballpark estimate to process 10 bugs plus new ones?
16:50:26 <aardrian> MS: 2-3 months, starting in January.
16:50:58 <aardrian> PC: Is it worth pulling <canvas> to last call until bugs are further along?
16:51:37 <aardrian> MS: Have the right people, assignments followed, but also only had one meeting.
16:51:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
16:52:40 <plh> q+
16:52:50 <aardrian> PC: There seems to be agreement on what is marked at risk, what is to be retained.
16:53:12 <aardrian> PC: Sam and I are trying to find fasted way to get <canvas> to Rec.
16:53:45 <aardrian> PC: Thinks best plan is to get update from Mark and identify best plan forward with Sam and team.
16:54:10 <chaals> ack ric
16:54:23 <aardrian> RS: Moving DrawCustomFocusRing to L2 dramatically reduces the churn.
16:54:56 <paulc_> Possible strategy is to move the drawCustomFocusRing bugs to L2 and concentrate the sub-team work on the remaining L1 bugs
16:55:00 <aardrian> RS: Big item is adapting wording for DrawCustomFocusRing, scrolling piece will take longer.
16:55:03 <chaals> ack plh
16:55:16 <paulc_> q+
16:56:11 <aardrian> PLH: TF resolution was to move drawCustomFocusRing to L2.
16:56:31 <chaals> -> http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html Canvas subteam meeting minutes
16:56:39 <chaals> ack pa
16:57:20 <MarkS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Dec/0070.html Canvas Sub Group Minutes
16:57:22 <aardrian> PC: Prioritize L1 bugs to move it along after moving drawCustomFocusRing to L2.
16:57:50 <paulc_> Happy Holidays to TF members
16:58:10 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:58:28 <aardrian> CMN: Resume meetings in 3 weeks, 6th of January.
16:58:32 <chaals> [adjourned]
16:58:34 <Zakim> -janina_
16:58:35 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:58:35 <Zakim> -Plh
16:58:35 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:58:37 <Zakim> -Mark_Sadecki
16:58:54 <paulc_> rrsagent, generate the minutes
16:58:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/19-html-a11y-minutes.html paulc_
16:58:59 <Zakim> -Adrian_Roselli
16:58:59 <aardrian> aardrian has left #html-a11y
16:59:10 <Zakim> -leonie
16:59:15 <Zakim> -chaals
16:59:46 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
17:02:59 <Zakim> -Judy
17:03:01 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
17:03:01 <Zakim> Attendees were Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], Plh, John_Foliot, chaals, janina_, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, leonie, paulc_, Judy, Cynthia_Shelly
18:20:34 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
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