IRC log of indie-ui on 2013-11-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:38:41 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
- 00:38:41 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-irc
- 00:38:43 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 00:38:43 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #indie-ui
- 00:38:45 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be INDIE
- 00:38:45 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()7:00PM scheduled to start 38 minutes ago
- 00:38:46 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
- 00:38:46 [trackbot]
- Date: 14 November 2013
- 00:38:49 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, do not start a new log
- 00:47:50 [jcraig]
- jcraig has joined #indie-ui
- 00:49:06 [kurosawa]
- kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
- 00:50:29 [jasonjgw]
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- 00:54:49 [kenny]
- kenny has joined #indie-Ui
- 00:58:41 [young_hua]
- young_hua has joined #indie-UI
- 00:59:07 [MichaelC]
- meeting: IndieUI FtF Day 1
- 00:59:10 [MichaelC]
- agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013
- 00:59:13 [MichaelC]
- chair: Janina_Sajka
- 00:59:43 [jeanne]
- jeanne has joined #Indie-UI
- 01:00:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
- 01:01:19 [Zakim]
- WAI_Indie()7:00PM has now started
- 01:01:26 [Zakim]
- +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 01:01:57 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- anyone going to open a phone line?
- 01:02:44 [Ryladog]
- Ryladog has joined #indie-ui
- 01:04:08 [MichaelC]
- zakim, call yellow_river_2
- 01:04:08 [Zakim]
- ok, MichaelC; the call is being made
- 01:04:09 [Zakim]
- +Yellow_river_2
- 01:04:33 [Zakim]
- +James_Craig
- 01:05:47 [MichaelC]
- zakim, yellow has Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Wu_Yinghua, Kenny_Zhung, Jeanne_Spellman
- 01:05:47 [Zakim]
- +Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Wu_Yinghua, Kenny_Zhung, Jeanne_Spellman; got it
- 01:06:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- can any of you hear us?
- 01:06:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- we are called in. James and I are both on
- 01:06:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- not a word
- 01:07:11 [Zakim]
- -Yellow_river_2
- 01:07:19 [Zakim]
- +Yellow_river_2
- 01:07:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- what is the call in passcode?
- 01:07:37 [jcraig]
- Zakim, passcode?
- 01:07:37 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 46343 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jcraig
- 01:07:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- is it different?
- 01:07:46 [richardschwerdtfeger]
- that is what we are dialed in on
- 01:08:00 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, off
- 04:41:50 [yinghua]
- yinghua has joined #indie-UI
- 04:46:23 [Zakim]
- -James_Craig
- 04:47:23 [Zakim]
- -Yellow_river_2
- 05:29:37 [andy]
- andy has joined #indie-ui
- 05:31:57 [andy]
- Hi
- 05:32:53 [andy]
- Enjoying the dim sums eh
- 05:40:47 [andy]
- Hmmmm - must be really good dim sums :-)
- 05:41:02 [andy]
- Saki ?
- 05:41:13 [andy]
- Rice wine ?
- 05:41:55 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 05:42:23 [andy]
- zakim, ??PS=Andy
- 05:42:23 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '??PS=Andy', andy
- 05:42:46 [andy]
- zakim, ??P1=Andy
- 05:42:46 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '??P1=Andy', andy
- 05:43:05 [andy]
- zakim, ??P1=me
- 05:43:05 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '??P1=me', andy
- 05:43:19 [Zakim]
- -??P5
- 05:52:19 [kenny]
- kenny has joined #indie-ui
- 05:53:26 [Zakim]
- -Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 05:53:28 [Zakim]
- WAI_Indie()7:00PM has ended
- 05:53:28 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, James_Craig, Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Wu_Yinghua, Kenny_Zhung, Jeanne_Spellman, Yellow_river_2,
- 05:53:28 [Zakim]
- ... Takashi_Kurosawa, Kenny_Zhang, Mary_Jo_Mueller, WuWei, Wu_Wei, Judy_Brewer, Boryung_Kim
- 05:54:56 [andy]
- Hi
- 05:56:34 [andy]
- anyone there ?
- 05:57:04 [andy]
- me too Katie
- 05:58:17 [andy]
- :-)
- 06:00:29 [kurosawa]
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- 06:01:37 [MichaelC]
- MichaelC has joined #indie-ui
- 06:02:09 [MichaelC]
- zakim, room for 5 for 240 minutes?
- 06:02:11 [Zakim]
- ok, MichaelC; conference Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z scheduled with code 46343 (INDIE) for 240 minutes until 1002Z
- 06:02:20 [Zakim]
- Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has now started
- 06:02:22 [Zakim]
- +Yellow_river_2
- 06:02:26 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 06:02:43 [MichaelC]
- zakim, ??P8 is Andy_Heath
- 06:02:43 [Zakim]
- +Andy_Heath; got it
- 06:03:53 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 06:04:34 [janina_]
- janina_ has joined #indie-ui
- 06:06:17 [jeanne]
- jeanne has joined #Indie-UI
- 06:06:31 [jcraig]
- jcraig has joined #indie-ui
- 06:06:50 [MichaelC]
- zakim, ipcaller is Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 06:06:50 [Zakim]
- +Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
- 06:06:52 [MichaelC]
- zakim, mute katie
- 06:06:52 [Zakim]
- Katie_Haritos-Shea should now be muted
- 06:07:27 [Zakim]
- +James_Craig
- 06:07:45 [jcraig]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 06:07:45 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Yellow_river_2, Andy_Heath, Katie_Haritos-Shea (muted), James_Craig
- 06:09:11 [Ryladog]
- yes
- 06:09:28 [Ryladog]
- scribe: Katie
- 06:09:52 [Ryladog]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 06:09:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
- 06:10:18 [Ryladog]
- TOPIC: User Context
- 06:10:35 [Ryladog]
- JS: Are you going to do a talk?
- 06:10:50 [Ryladog]
- AH: Yes on the 20th if folks need me to do that
- 06:10:59 [Ryladog]
- JS: Good, please.
- 06:11:17 [Ryladog]
- AH: It is 4 hours from my house
- 06:11:44 [Ryladog]
- JS: We met with Web Apps and CSS WG earlier this week. Good outcomes
- 06:12:35 [Ryladog]
- JS: Web Apps additional attention from them and an guy from Google is interested in keyboard preferences. And do not oversell privacy
- 06:12:53 [MaryJo]
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- 06:13:30 [Ryladog]
- JS: CSS also went well they will look at our spec feature by feature. Overall they think our approach is good. Tad Adkins has provided some feedback. James ?
- 06:13:41 [jeanne]
- jeanne has joined #Indie-UI
- 06:14:23 [Ryladog]
- JC: Mostly postive and open to the general idea. They thought maybe mediaqueries is not the best approach - his idea is to use a JS query for pairs
- 06:14:33 [Judy]
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- 06:15:08 [Ryladog]
- JC: I think we could use a hybrid approach. MQ appraoc has been approved as well as the ket value pairs as well
- 06:15:13 [danielkim]
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- 06:15:20 [andy]
- q+
- 06:16:28 [Ryladog]
- AH: One big use case is around developing stuff on ePub 3 and eBooks and using metadata.
- 06:16:52 [andy]
- http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/
- 06:16:53 [Ryladog]
- AH: One spec I have mentioned, schema.org accessibility metadata
- 06:17:46 [Ryladog]
- AH: We thought it was final but more new changes have come along. It is close to final. The Access Feature is final.
- 06:17:57 [Ryladog]
- AH: Still worjing on AccessMode
- 06:18:43 [Ryladog]
- AH: This is the metadata that will be used and we should map to these elements
- 06:19:11 [Ryladog]
- JS: It would be a win if we could be the mechanism fot ePub 3
- 06:20:09 [Ryladog]
- AH: Yes. It just happened this week. Preferences that we have got partially map to this. Are we missing some of these. I need to map them.
- 06:20:25 [Ryladog]
- JS: How much work is this? We want to remail mean and lean
- 06:20:54 [Ryladog]
- AH: There are political reasons for doing this. What do others think?
- 06:21:29 [Ryladog]
- MC: Do you mean just documented in our requirements?
- 06:22:21 [jcraig]
- q+
- 06:22:39 [MichaelC]
- q+ to say requirements and implementations are a two way street
- 06:22:41 [MichaelC]
- ack a
- 06:22:49 [Ryladog]
- AH: They are not all different, in the ePub world that needs preferences for devices. It is not all authored, much is automatic. It is important for us to utilize
- 06:23:04 [Ryladog]
- AH: Selection of media, etc, in my view
- 06:23:42 [MichaelC]
- ack
- 06:23:44 [MichaelC]
- ack j
- 06:23:55 [Ryladog]
- JC: The Specification section, there is no explanation on how it is intended to be used. Who writes this spec? Can they join our call to explain the use
- 06:24:35 [Ryladog]
- AH: I should be able to do that. We change categorizations for Media....
- 06:25:20 [Ryladog]
- JC:Can you explain AccessMode? If we accessed this like a key value pair - give it that info....
- 06:25:36 [Ryladog]
- AH: This is content metadata
- 06:26:03 [Ryladog]
- AH: Preference might be captions, or text to visual
- 06:26:56 [Ryladog]
- AH: In general they are pais but they do not all exist. Color dependence - the content depends on info that is coded in color
- 06:28:27 [MichaelC]
- scribe: MichaelC
- 06:28:39 [MichaelC]
- ah: I might be able to do this, but others could also
- 06:28:51 [MichaelC]
- jc: what actions for this group?
- 06:28:56 [MichaelC]
- spec doesn't seem ready for group
- 06:29:02 [MichaelC]
- ah: not quite but not far off
- 06:29:07 [MichaelC]
- started for AccessForAll3
- 06:29:33 [jasonjgw]
- jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
- 06:29:36 [MichaelC]
- some of our use cases and requirements map to this, though there has been divergence
- 06:29:46 [janina_]
- q?
- 06:30:46 [MichaelC]
- scribe: Ryladog
- 06:31:12 [Ryladog]
- JC: This is metadata that describes a content resources?
- 06:31:18 [Ryladog]
- AH: Yes
- 06:31:31 [Ryladog]
- JC: Would this be embedded in the webpage?
- 06:31:41 [jasonjgw]
- q+
- 06:31:47 [Ryladog]
- AH: yes there is a bindimg mecchanism but not CSS
- 06:32:00 [MichaelC]
- q- later
- 06:32:03 [jcraig]
- http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/examples/
- 06:32:03 [Ryladog]
- CG: I am unsure how
- 06:32:31 [Ryladog]
- AH: That WAS the suggested binding - I think that has changed
- 06:33:32 [jcraig]
- Reminds me of Dublin Core
- 06:33:47 [jcraig]
- http://dublincore.org/documents/dc-rdf/
- 06:34:03 [Ryladog]
- AH: The metadata world, including the IDPF uses HTML5 - the binding mechanism is separtae from the from the idea
- 06:34:52 [andy]
- q+
- 06:35:04 [Ryladog]
- JW: I was talking with Gerardo yesterday, we discussed the potetnail relevance of the schema work to IndieUI
- 06:36:05 [Ryladog]
- JW: IndieUI could work as a search tool to find schema,org using a query syntx. To automated the restriction ofn the search -wich would
- 06:36:18 [MichaelC]
- ack kj
- 06:36:21 [MichaelC]
- ack j
- 06:36:24 [MichaelC]
- q- later
- 06:36:52 [Ryladog]
- JS: Maybe we should talk with them, but I stray
- 06:37:35 [jcraig]
- For example, video search engine could detect via IndieUI preference for captions, and return more relevant results by increasing the relevance of videos that included captions/subtitles.
- 06:37:38 [Ryladog]
- AH: I think that is right Jason - Geraerdo has been working on this for some time, and I am new to it
- 06:38:19 [Ryladog]
- MC: Gerardo (from Benetec) and Markus
- 06:38:21 [jcraig]
- s/Geraerdo/Gerardo/
- 06:38:49 [jcraig]
- s/Benetec/Benetech/
- 06:39:01 [Ryladog]
- JS: A programmer that works out of San Fran who we added to PF, his name?
- 06:39:19 [Ryladog]
- JS: Looking for his name...
- 06:39:41 [janina_]
- Bryan Garaventa
- 06:40:07 [Ryladog]
- AH: Practice Guide for version 6 of this - but the spec is version 7
- 06:40:13 [MichaelC]
- ack a
- 06:40:37 [jcraig]
- Oh, yeah, I've met Bryan at some point in the past.
- 06:40:37 [jasonjgw]
- q+
- 06:40:51 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 06:40:51 [Zakim]
- MichaelC, you wanted to say requirements and implementations are a two way street
- 06:41:33 [Ryladog]
- MC: What requirements might make 2.0 or 3.0 - that might help us to add this in sooner
- 06:41:44 [MichaelC]
- ack j
- 06:41:49 [Ryladog]
- JS: We could create customers for our spec that way
- 06:42:34 [Ryladog]
- JW: The questions we have raised is are we going to harmonize our UNandP with the corresponding metadata - that goes to UC Reqs
- 06:42:56 [Ryladog]
- JW: That goes with what feature to include in the spec now
- 06:44:09 [Ryladog]
- JW: Whether the UC Props should be kept to UA or OS controls in implementation - but James argued that the Props are able in fact to be used by the UA or OS\
- 06:44:58 [jcraig]
- jcraig has joined #indie-ui
- 06:45:02 [Ryladog]
- JW: It is now clear that isnt enought to implement the API there must be some mechnaism (outside of IndieUI) with real data from somewhere which might be UAs
- 06:45:24 [Ryladog]
- MC: Gererdo can come to our call in about 45 minutes
- 06:45:45 [Ryladog]
- MC: for about 45 minutes now
- 06:47:10 [Ryladog]
- snoring stories
- 06:47:35 [Ryladog]
- JW: what needs to be supported?
- 06:48:06 [Ryladog]
- AH: It depends on what we take on...supporting...importing somehow
- 06:48:19 [Ryladog]
- AH: This is a preference in the data model
- 06:48:47 [jasonjgw]
- q+
- 06:48:50 [Ryladog]
- AH: I do not have any good idea of how to get preferences in.
- 06:48:57 [jcraig]
- q+ to mention some of the prefs that fit in media queries can be stored in a user style sheet, and system prefs don't need storage
- 06:49:47 [andy]
- q+
- 06:49:49 [Ryladog]
- JW: I think we have broad agreement that we didnt want to constrain how the pref were to be used on the UA - the discussion outcome - is using US conformance requirements
- 06:50:33 [Ryladog]
- JW: If thatis the case that that help define the scope if all UA provide a mechanism to use the API that we are using
- 06:51:12 [Ryladog]
- JW: That seems to fit well. And does help to define the scope of our work if we go with that model
- 06:51:15 [jcraig]
- q?
- 06:51:19 [jcraig]
- ack jas
- 06:51:30 [jcraig]
- ack me
- 06:51:30 [Zakim]
- jcraig, you wanted to mention some of the prefs that fit in media queries can be stored in a user style sheet, and system prefs don't need storage
- 06:51:47 [janina_]
- q?
- 06:52:40 [Ryladog]
- JC: One way is to store the prefiin CSS for a user sytle sheet that fits within MQ. Foe example - Not an override - but a particular font size
- 06:52:55 [MichaelC]
- zakim, Gerardo_Capiel has entered Yellow_River_2
- 06:52:55 [Zakim]
- +Gerardo_Capiel; got it
- 06:53:23 [Ryladog]
- JC: Subtitle etc would fit well in CSS - but others are not they are more OS type controls
- 06:53:38 [gcapiel]
- gcapiel has joined #indie-ui
- 06:54:05 [Ryladog]
- JC: Abstact stuff like auditory over visual - there does not seem to be a way with CSS to define this - that is an implemenetation detail
- 06:54:30 [Ryladog]
- MC: Gerardo has joined us
- 06:54:45 [Ryladog]
- JS: Brings Gererdo up to speed
- 06:55:09 [jcraig]
- s/that is an implemenetation detail/a storage format for that would be an implementation detail, and
- 06:55:09 [jcraig]
- outside the scope of the W3C/
- 06:55:19 [Ryladog]
- JS: A spec with a customer (schema.org) is better than a spec that is just a good idea
- 06:55:21 [jcraig]
- s/that is an implemenetation detail/a storage format for that would be an implementation detail, and outside the scope of the W3C/
- 06:55:29 [jcraig]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 06:55:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html jcraig
- 06:55:46 [jcraig]
- s/Gererdo/Gerardo/
- 06:56:32 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: ePub 3 is HTML5 and this - video etc. The challenge is implementers might not implement A11Y features of ePub 3
- 06:56:32 [jcraig]
- s/a storage format for that would be an implementation detail, and/a storage format for that would be an implementation detail, and outside the scope of the W3C/
- 06:57:10 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: Will be approved AccessFeature schema
- 06:57:32 [Ryladog]
- A11Y.org?
- 06:57:39 [andy]
- http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/
- 06:59:16 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: That will be accepted, Access Hazard, Access API (terms for ARIA, most A11Y APIs - maybe Indie UI), Access Controls
- 07:00:05 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: Terms and propertires come from Access for All 24751. AccessMode will not make it in as there is an overlap with some Schema props
- 07:00:16 [janina_]
- q?
- 07:01:03 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: The encoding format properies could be used
- 07:01:21 [jcraig]
- q+ to ask about how this metadate is intended to be bound to data, such as a video.
- 07:01:50 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: We have started some implementations...use Google Custom search engine
- 07:02:10 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: there is a sample search
- 07:02:12 [jcraig]
- q+ to mention "media feature" is a CSS term, so probably should not use it here to mean something else
- 07:02:33 [janina_]
- ack a
- 07:02:35 [jcraig]
- ack me
- 07:02:35 [Zakim]
- jcraig, you wanted to ask about how this metadate is intended to be bound to data, such as a video. and to mention "media feature" is a CSS term, so probably should not use it here
- 07:02:38 [Zakim]
- ... to mean something else
- 07:03:08 [Ryladog]
- JC: One note, MediaFeature means something in the W3C in CSS - we should not change or reuse it.
- 07:03:33 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: We have changed it now to Access?
- 07:04:28 [Ryladog]
- JC: How is the metadata intended to be bound to real data? How would this be associated to not flash in a video? Embedded?
- 07:04:48 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: Micro data is the HTM that wraos around the element
- 07:04:55 [kurosawa]
- kurosawa has left #indie-ui
- 07:04:55 [gcapiel]
- http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/examples/#mlk
- 07:05:05 [kurosawa]
- kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
- 07:05:14 [Ryladog]
- JC: Embedded with the metadata as well
- 07:05:58 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: hasAdaptation will not make it in the spec
- 07:06:32 [Ryladog]
- JC: Seems to be metadata about the page? but you could confine it to a specific element
- 07:06:36 [andy]
- yes - in fact its necessarry
- 07:07:03 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: Yes, it should be in a span and not a body element
- 07:07:14 [Ryladog]
- JC: Inside the video tag?
- 07:07:16 [andy]
- q+
- 07:07:19 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: Correct
- 07:07:33 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: This is not a great example
- 07:07:58 [Ryladog]
- JC: Consumers would be search engines but maybe UAs as well?
- 07:08:08 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: yes, I think so
- 07:08:36 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: example: this page has 3 video but none of them are captioned
- 07:08:44 [MichaelC]
- ack a
- 07:08:50 [Ryladog]
- AH: There are practices to work out around searches
- 07:09:20 [Ryladog]
- AH: when you have multiple features that need metadata
- 07:09:37 [Ryladog]
- AH: this is hard but can be done I think
- 07:09:58 [andy]
- q+
- 07:10:38 [MichaelC]
- ack a
- 07:10:44 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: there are problems in some cases with search engines
- 07:11:13 [Ryladog]
- AH:The UA will addapt the indivuidual objects bo matter the doc type and device
- 07:11:51 [jcraig]
- q+ to mention Alex Russell's article, than most of you are going to hate, but deserves a read in the context of this metadata initiative http://infrequently.org/2013/11/long-term-web-semantics/
- 07:11:57 [jcraig]
- ack me
- 07:11:57 [Zakim]
- jcraig, you wanted to mention Alex Russell's article, than most of you are going to hate, but deserves a read in the context of this metadata initiative
- 07:11:59 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: is gcapiel
- 07:12:01 [Zakim]
- ... http://infrequently.org/2013/11/long-term-web-semantics/
- 07:12:08 [jcraig]
- http://infrequently.org/2013/11/long-term-web-semantics/
- 07:12:24 [Ryladog]
- JC: This is Alex Russel who is the author of DoJo
- 07:12:29 [jasonjgw]
- q+
- 07:12:35 [janina_]
- q?
- 07:13:04 [Ryladog]
- JC: One conclusion he makes the role of SEs is not to parse metadata
- 07:13:15 [andy]
- q+
- 07:13:33 [Ryladog]
- JC: He takes a hard stance against linked data
- 07:14:33 [Ryladog]
- JC: He asserts it is too complicated for web authors - he may have some valid points here
- 07:15:04 [MichaelC]
- ack
- 07:15:08 [MichaelC]
- ack j
- 07:15:29 [Ryladog]
- JW: That arguement that Alex makes is problematic - one could say that about markup in generral
- 07:16:38 [Ryladog]
- JW: We need to solve the underlying recognition problems - for now that appears to be authors.
- 07:17:18 [jcraig]
- s/He asserts it is too complicated for web authors/He asserts most web authors won't add linked metadata, so it is more useful for search engines to resolving their bugs in "decoding the soup" than to expect authors to include immaculate metadata in web pages./
- 07:17:56 [Ryladog]
- JW: My undertsnaing related to UC spe c could supply a NandP profile that would supplement hat the user provides a search query
- 07:18:39 [Ryladog]
- JW: Needs and Prefs on one side Content on the other
- 07:18:42 [MichaelC]
- ack a
- 07:19:29 [Ryladog]
- AH: Good Jason. I have been around metadata about 12 years now. That is a common question. The future is not to use metadata.
- 07:20:09 [Ryladog]
- AH: We are still in the old world. This is scaffolding, a way to go until we get to better automated processes
- 07:20:35 [janina_]
- q?
- 07:20:54 [Ryladog]
- AH: I work on preference - b/c the metadata scaffold for now - but in the future we will continue to define the prefrences
- 07:21:29 [andy]
- q+
- 07:21:58 [Ryladog]
- JC: The use case searching for video that Jason brought up - that idea is grand. If YouTube knows aboit there captions
- 07:22:38 [jcraig]
- s/the author of DoJo/the author of Dojo, and now works on Chrome/
- 07:22:40 [Ryladog]
- JC: There is a lot of talk
- 07:23:19 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: the eaasier we make it for authors the better. Plugin for Wordpress - let have the plugin insert the metadata
- 07:23:37 [andy]
- q-
- 07:23:49 [jcraig]
- s/If YouTube knows aboit there captions/If a video site knows about its captions and can sprinkle in that microdata, great. It may make for better search results./
- 07:24:04 [Ryladog]
- JS: Thank you to Gerardo, for coming. And your ideas
- 07:24:49 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: Brian G is a wizkid with A11Y for dynamic apps such as jQuery - as a developer he would be a good person to get info from
- 07:25:07 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: I will read up on IndeUI only a little bit
- 07:25:18 [Ryladog]
- JC: Please reads the User Context spec
- 07:25:52 [Ryladog]
- JC: example, Check to see if an author wants captions
- 07:26:17 [jcraig]
- s/There is a lot of talk/I just wanted to point out the article, b/c I see a lot of the same ideas get recycled in the groups working on large-scale metadata initiatives./
- 07:26:21 [andy]
- q+
- 07:26:28 [Ryladog]
- JS: We are trying for a first draft soonish and finding implementors
- 07:26:51 [Ryladog]
- JS: If you have something we can start talking ti UAs about that would be great
- 07:27:09 [Ryladog]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 07:27:09 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
- 07:27:29 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo:We will add this to our agenda
- 07:27:41 [janina_]
- q?
- 07:27:46 [janina_]
- ack a
- 07:28:21 [Ryladog]
- AH: We need to bring it up to 7 and a Best Practice Guide based on version 7
- 07:29:28 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: We need to update our guide, they should map to the IndieUI and A11Y metadata
- 07:29:49 [andy]
- q-
- 07:31:22 [Ryladog]
- JC: we are considering some of the UC fit into CSS, but other do not fit well. How were you thinking that a search engine would get information out for limited seach results
- 07:31:33 [andy]
- q+
- 07:31:58 [Ryladog]
- JC: How do we let the US know about it, for Search engines to find it
- 07:32:41 [Ryladog]
- JC: exampke, Simplified Interface - how would that best be specified?
- 07:33:01 [Ryladog]
- JC: Now or 2.0
- 07:33:12 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: that may be a privacy issue
- 07:33:18 [jasonjgw]
- q+
- 07:33:29 [Ryladog]
- JC: we have a good story for provacy I think
- 07:34:19 [Ryladog]
- Gerardo: query string will expose your preferences
- 07:34:33 [janina_]
- q?
- 07:34:47 [Ryladog]
- JC: That is a second step removed that Seach engines could abstract it
- 07:35:12 [janina_]
- ack a
- 07:35:27 [jeanne3]
- jeanne3 has joined #Indie-UI
- 07:35:39 [Ryladog]
- AH: It is not just the search case, it is the adaptaion on the delivery device and we need to think about how that get s in there. It is not just the browser. And goes back to conformance for UAs
- 07:36:57 [Ryladog]
- JW: I agree with Andy. how does the AU populate the prefs? There should be requirement on the UA - we have not tarted the details of that discussion
- 07:37:18 [andy]
- s/tarted/started/
- 07:37:37 [Ryladog]
- JW: How will UAa populate the profiles?
- 07:38:22 [Ryladog]
- JS: Break until 4pm, I am going o HTML for 10 or 15 minutes
- 07:38:31 [andy]
- :-)@Katie
- 07:39:19 [Ryladog]
- JC: What is the HTML topic?
- 07:39:23 [Ryladog]
- JS: Bugs
- 07:40:07 [Ryladog]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 07:40:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
- 07:40:22 [Ryladog]
- BREAK
- 07:40:56 [Zakim]
- -Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 07:41:14 [Zakim]
- -James_Craig
- 07:41:21 [Zakim]
- -Yellow_river_2
- 08:02:06 [jcraig]
- jcraig has joined #indie-ui
- 08:07:17 [kurosawa]
- kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
- 08:10:48 [jcraig]
- Found it. #html-wg
- 08:11:00 [jcraig]
- s/Found it. #html-wg//
- 08:18:37 [MichaelC]
- MichaelC has joined #indie-ui
- 08:20:15 [andy]
- ok thanks Michael - let me know here please when I need to start again
- 08:26:09 [kurosawa_]
- kurosawa_ has joined #indie-ui
- 08:45:40 [MichaelC]
- MichaelC has joined #indie-ui
- 08:51:49 [andy]
- brb 5 mins, making tea
- 08:57:31 [MichaelC]
- MichaelC has joined #indie-ui
- 08:58:14 [Zakim]
- +Yellow_river_2
- 09:00:18 [andy]
- i didn't hear that at all its so bad
- 09:00:27 [andy]
- I'll ring off and try again
- 09:00:41 [Zakim]
- -Andy_Heath
- 09:00:54 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 09:02:46 [Zakim]
- -Yellow_river_2
- 09:02:57 [Zakim]
- +Yellow_river_2
- 09:03:40 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 09:03:40 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Yellow_river_2, ??P6
- 09:03:41 [Zakim]
- Yellow_river_2 has Gerardo_Capiel
- 09:03:41 [Zakim]
- -Yellow_river_2
- 09:04:10 [andy]
- no sound - should I disconnect and call in again ?
- 09:05:29 [andy]
- still there ?
- 09:06:25 [Zakim]
- +Yellow_river_2
- 09:06:45 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 09:06:45 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Yellow_river_2, ??P6
- 09:06:46 [Zakim]
- Yellow_river_2 has Gerardo_Capiel
- 09:06:54 [andy]
- no sound here
- 09:07:07 [Zakim]
- -Yellow_river_2
- 09:07:14 [andy]
- do you guys have normal sound on the phone?
- 09:07:27 [janina_]
- ack a
- 09:07:33 [andy]
- ok looks like you are having problems getting on
- 09:07:42 [janina_]
- Working on it ...
- 09:07:48 [Zakim]
- +Yellow_river_2
- 09:08:05 [Ryladog]
- Ryladog has joined #Indie-UI
- 09:08:28 [andy]
- is anyone else called in having problems or is it just me?
- 09:08:55 [andy]
- (now I know what I put you all through in the past ;-) )
- 09:09:23 [andy]
- can't hear
- 09:09:30 [andy]
- is anyone else called in or just me?
- 09:10:01 [andy]
- ok I'll restart a few things - the problem may be at my end
- 09:10:10 [andy]
- working on it
- 09:10:17 [Zakim]
- -??P6
- 09:10:49 [Zakim]
- -Yellow_river_2
- 09:10:50 [Zakim]
- Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has ended
- 09:10:50 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Yellow_river_2, Andy_Heath, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Craig, Gerardo_Capiel
- 09:11:27 [Zakim]
- Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has now started
- 09:11:35 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 09:11:49 [andy]
- It says I'm the first participant
- 09:11:56 [andy]
- in the conference
- 09:11:58 [Zakim]
- -??P3
- 09:12:00 [Zakim]
- Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has ended
- 09:12:00 [Zakim]
- Attendees were
- 09:12:12 [Zakim]
- Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has now started
- 09:12:18 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 09:12:29 [andy]
- Katie I don't think I have your Skype handle
- 09:12:39 [Ryladog]
- ryladog
- 09:12:40 [andy]
- andy_heath_
- 09:13:28 [andy]
- can you ok the contact request please Katie
- 09:13:38 [MichaelC]
- s/ryladog//
- 09:13:43 [MichaelC]
- s/andy_heath_//
- 09:14:51 [jasonjgw]
- jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
- 09:20:44 [MichaelC]
- Copying my notes from Events discussion this morning
- 09:20:49 [MichaelC]
- Events Requirements
- 09:20:49 [MichaelC]
- 1.2 Goals
- 09:20:49 [MichaelC]
- Provide an API layer to define user intended events that is agnostic of the specific input methodology and independent of a user's particular platform, hardware, locale, and preferences.
- 09:20:49 [MichaelC]
- Allow the API to support user commands without requiring specific physical events.
- 09:20:50 [MichaelC]
- 1.3 Scope
- 09:20:51 [MichaelC]
- Do not require specific physical user interactions (keyboard combinations, gestures, speech, etc.) to trigger particular IndieUI events.
- 09:20:54 [MichaelC]
- 1.5 Backwards Compatibility
- 09:20:56 [MichaelC]
- Structure the events such that they are only triggered if the application registers an interest in them, to optimize performance and allow backwards compatibility.
- 09:20:59 [MichaelC]
- Provide a way for applications to communicate that a given event request was or was not handled so the host OS or UA can attempt fallback behaviour.
- 09:21:02 [MichaelC]
- Do not block standard events when listening for IndieUI events. ISSUE-15 may impact this.
- 09:21:04 [MichaelC]
- Provide a way to "reset" ui-actions on descendant node. ISSUE-15 may impact this.
- 09:21:08 [MichaelC]
- 2. UI Actions
- 09:21:09 [jasonjgw]
- q+
- 09:21:10 [MichaelC]
- Allow event delegation without affecting performance and scoping of events. ISSUE-16 impacts this.
- 09:21:12 [MichaelC]
- <possibly other requirements after we clarify implications of this structure>
- 09:21:14 [MichaelC]
- 3. UI Request Events
- 09:21:16 [MichaelC]
- There will be a requirement for how IndieUI events fit in with the order of other events ISSUE-15
- 09:21:18 [MichaelC]
- Might need a requirement to be able to associate an IndieUI event with other related physical events ISSUE-15
- 09:21:21 [MichaelC]
- 3.1 UIRequestEvent
- 09:21:23 [MichaelC]
- IndieUI Events must extend UIEvents unless the IndieUI requirements are met directly in UI Events.
- 09:21:25 [MichaelC]
- IndieUI must support the following functions unless supported by other technologies: undo, redo, expand, collapse, dismiss, delete, move, pan, rotation, scroll, valuechange, zoom
- 09:21:28 [MichaelC]
- Support linear navigation for first, previous, next, and last.
- 09:21:30 [MichaelC]
- Support directional navigation for (8 cardinal direction).
- 09:21:32 [MichaelC]
- Provide a mechanism for users to move focus non-linearly to other sections of the document such as toolbar, palette, and windows.
- 09:21:37 [MichaelC]
- Provide a way to navigate amongst landmark regions. This may be at risk in 1.0 and could be pushed to future version. Might be a11y specific.
- 09:21:40 [MichaelC]
- Provide a way for users to return to their previous point of regard, like emacs and vid and IDEs support. This does not have consensus yet. Need to determine if it is just keyboard or others as well. Could be pushed to future version. Seems to have general use cases.
- 09:24:46 [janina_]
- q?
- 09:24:52 [janina_]
- ack j
- 09:25:32 [andy]
- q+
- 09:27:11 [janina_]
- ack a
- 09:31:40 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 09:31:40 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
- 09:32:47 [jasonjgw]
- q+
- 09:38:08 [MichaelC]
- q-
- 09:38:16 [MichaelC]
- ack j
- 09:40:01 [janina]
- janina has joined #indie-ui
- 09:48:43 [Zakim]
- -??P3
- 09:48:44 [Zakim]
- Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has ended
- 09:48:44 [Zakim]
- Attendees were
- 10:21:02 [MichaelC]
- MichaelC has joined #indie-ui
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- Zakim has left #indie-ui
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- smaug has joined #indie-ui
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- Judy has joined #indie-ui