16:01:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:01:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/07-html-a11y-irc
16:01:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:01:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
16:01:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
16:01:27 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:01:27 <trackbot> Date: 07 November 2013
16:02:09 <chaals> zakim, who is here?
16:02:09 <Zakim> I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has restarted
16:02:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
16:02:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, aardrian, chaals, davidb, MarkS, janina, trackbot, Zakim
16:02:42 <chaals> Present: Chaals, David, Aardrian
16:02:57 <chaals> agenda+ canvas
16:03:08 <chaals> zakim, clear agenda
16:03:08 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:03:16 <David> David has joined #html-a11y
16:03:17 <chaals> agenda+ canvas
16:03:55 <chaals> agenda+ longdesc comments
16:09:28 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
16:13:05 <chaals> scribe: chaals
16:13:14 <chaals> Topic: Whoops no agenda
16:13:33 <chaals> CN: SOrry, no access to mail so no agenda sent. May mean we don't get the people we wanted here...
16:13:38 <chaals> Topic: canvas
16:13:52 <chaals> CN: I'm fine with the CfC, nothing to really say...
16:14:02 <chaals> CS: Think the Microsoft position is clear
16:14:13 <chaals> Present+ Cynthia, Leonie
16:14:37 <chaals> DM: Think FocusRing stuff is good.
16:14:49 <chaals> CN: Hope it makes the timing...
16:15:01 <chaals> CS: May only be in 5.1 ...
16:15:17 <chaals> CN: Let's wait for results of CfC.
16:15:54 <chaals> ACTION: chaals to talk to HTML chairs about canvas CfC.
16:15:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-214 - Talk to html chairs about canvas cfc. [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2013-11-14].
16:16:55 <chaals> Topic: longdesc review
16:17:22 <chaals> CN: Matt argues that search engines don't need longdesc - don't know where he gets that idea, given that I work for one, and we would like it.
16:19:42 <MarkS> just sent an email to TF with link and instructions to canvas focusRing demos
16:21:30 <MarkS> do we need to address matts comments in this context? the CfC?
16:21:47 <chaals> DM: Mat says "No implementor has added support for universal access to longdesc, and Firefox won't..."
16:22:01 <chaals> … "Spec should be updated to reflect reality"
16:22:10 <chaals> LW: Reality is that it works for poeple who need it.
16:22:22 <chaals> AA: Don't understand qwhat he wants
16:23:07 <chaals> CN: My proposed response is that a. He is incorrect, browsers and extensions and AT have implemented universal discuovery, and b. his request to "match reality" isn't actionable.
16:23:21 <chaals> … (Since he fails to deomnstrate what "reality" is)
16:24:24 <chaals> DM: Jan has some comments on editorial stuff.
16:26:31 <chaals> … Matt says discoverability is solved by normal links. No use case has been provided requiring description to be different from a normal link.
16:27:25 <chaals> CN: Proposed response is a. that doesn't work if the image is inside a link that isn't a description, b. use case has been presented (search).
16:27:41 <chaals> DM: Also says spec should say when a longdesc should and shouldn't be used.
16:28:12 <chaals> LW: There's a matter of programmatic association if you have a separate image, so cannot programmatically associate the two.
16:28:33 <chaals> … cannot find a designer willing to stick every image into a link to a descritpion.
16:29:05 <chaals> DW: And will confuse people who believe links from images are "normal" (e.g. navigation icon) and when it is a description.
16:29:17 <chaals> CN: Agree, and that should be part of the response.
16:29:28 <chaals> CS: We could provide more authoring guidance in WCAG.
16:29:46 <chaals> AA: Said the spec needs to define the conditions. Authoring guidance is the only thing we need to address his concern.
16:30:21 <chaals> CN: I think his concern is not valid. As David says, adding a link to every image that needs description, with no differentiation between "normal" and descrition links, is a terrible idea.
16:30:34 <LJWatson> +1
16:30:59 <chaals> DM: Has anyone ever seen a *request* to have images linked to descripitions on their own?
16:31:07 <chaals> LW: Have met it before, Not in a good way...
16:31:45 <chaals> CN: When I get access to mail agin ( probably next week :( ) I'll write the proposed responses and set up a CfC.
16:32:00 <chaals> … It would also be useful to get more people replying to the original, so we may re-open it.
16:33:01 <MarkS> +1 for reopening
16:33:47 <chaals> AA: Will anyone be available for HTML WG call today?
16:33:51 <chaals> CN: Not me :(
16:34:13 <chaals> i/AA: Will anyone/Topic: Someone for HTML WG call today?
16:35:08 <chaals> DM: Could do it - just lookign for someone to listen?
16:35:15 <chaals> CN: And report this meeting.
16:35:34 <chaals> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:35:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/07-html-a11y-minutes.html chaals
16:37:40 <chaals> [Meeting Adjourned]
16:37:50 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:37:52 <Zakim> Attendees were
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