IRC log of pf on 2013-10-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-pf-irc

13:59:29 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs member

13:59:29 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #pf

13:59:31 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAI_PF

13:59:31 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML A11Y)9:00AM already started

13:59:32 [trackbot]

Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

13:59:32 [trackbot]

Date: 28 October 2013

13:59:50 [MichaelC]

zakim, this is 92473

13:59:50 [Zakim]

MichaelC, this was WAI_PFWG(HTML A11Y)9:00AM

13:59:50 [Zakim]

ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM

14:00:39 [MichaelC]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Oct/0077.html

14:00:41 [Zakim]

+[GVoice]

14:00:50 [clown]

zakim GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer

14:00:57 [clown]

zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer

14:00:57 [Zakim]

+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it

14:01:04 [clown]

zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer

14:01:04 [Zakim]

ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer

14:01:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]

chair: Rich

14:02:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]

meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

14:02:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]

RRSAgent, make log public

14:03:00 [Zakim]

+Rich_Schwerdtfeger

14:06:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Oct/0077.html

14:06:52 [Zakim]

+??P28

14:07:11 [MichaelC]

zakim, ??P28 is Janina_Sajka

14:07:11 [Zakim]

+Janina_Sajka; got it

14:09:47 [MichaelC]

scribe: MichaelC

14:10:04 [janina]

scribe: janina

14:10:13 [janina]

topic: UAIG Issues

14:10:18 [jongund_]

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14:10:38 [janina]

clown: What do I need done if we're to pub on the 5th?

14:10:49 [janina]

mc: All edits by Wednesday for PF resolution

14:10:52 [Zakim]

+Jon_Gunderson

14:11:00 [janina]

rs: So, if not now, it's moved to 1.1?

14:11:02 [janina]

clown: Yes

14:11:13 [janina]

clown: I'm done, sor tof ...

14:11:14 [clown]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10

14:12:13 [clown]

issue-616?

14:12:13 [trackbot]

issue-616 -- ISSUE: Review potentially at-risk statement "When the user triggers an element with a defined activation behavior in a manner other than clicking it, such as by pressing Enter, simulate a click on the element." -- closed

14:12:13 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/616

14:12:51 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex

14:14:00 [janina]

js: Cyns ws to have discussed this in email per UAIG minutes ...

14:14:01 [janina]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Oct/0007.html

14:15:16 [janina]

rs: I'm OK to mark it at risk

14:15:51 [janina]

clown: It gets tricky to turn this into "should," which also doesn't help

14:16:03 [janina]

clown: Only two bullets would be marked at risk

14:16:24 [janina]

clown: JC wants them removed, raised to issue to set them at risk

14:22:42 [janina]

mc: At risk may spur IE to implement

14:22:55 [janina]

mc: It doesn't hurt us to remove it later

14:26:02 [janina]

rs: I defer to Clown, who chairs UAIG

14:26:56 [clown]

s/defer to Clown/defer to Joseph/

14:30:40 [clown]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10

14:31:13 [janina]

clown: Some have admin actions, but most can be deferred, imo

14:31:24 [janina]

clown: 486

14:31:34 [janina]

clown: Change in text alt computation

14:32:02 [janina]

clown: moved to note, but uaig computation differs from spec. How could that happen?

14:32:25 [janina]

clown: Cn UAIG text computation differ slightly from spec?

14:32:38 [janina]

rs: Need to be the same if normative

14:32:58 [janina]

mc: Think we can adjust spec because not normative

14:34:04 [janina]

mc: Believe this is a nonissue

14:35:02 [janina]

mc: Agree it's a reasonable edit on the 1.0 spec

14:35:35 [janina]

mc: UAIG has additional sentence or two, but difference is not in normative language

14:35:46 [janina]

mc: We can leave alone, or harmonize, both are possible

14:38:08 [janina]

rs: 551 ...

14:38:46 [janina]

mc: This is re director questions, we have informal approval as we proposed. We cannot get formal approval until CR exit

14:39:28 [janina]

mc: Nothing we can do until CR on UAIG

14:40:48 [janina]

clown: 582

14:40:49 [clown]

issue-582?

14:40:49 [trackbot]

issue-582 -- We don't have an explicit mapping, for each platform, for the focusable state in the UAIG -- open

14:40:49 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/582

14:41:01 [janina]

clown: Can we close?

14:41:02 [janina]

mc: yes

14:41:15 [janina]

rs: specific to api, either it has, or it doesn't

14:41:20 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#focus_state_event_table

14:42:39 [janina]

rs: We can improve in 11, but close

14:42:44 [janina]

rs: Objections to closing?

14:43:46 [richardschwerdtfeger]

RESOLUTION: Close Issue 582

14:44:13 [janina]

rs: 583

14:44:16 [clown]

issue-583?

14:44:16 [trackbot]

issue-583 -- Elements that are descendants of an element having aria-activedescendant should not all be focusable -- open

14:44:16 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583

14:44:40 [janina]

clown: Agreement that UAIG is sufficient

14:44:52 [janina]

rs: And if it's a focusable html element?

14:45:06 [janina]

clown: Has role, does it have ID

14:45:52 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_aria-activedescendant

14:47:04 [janina]

rs: Guess we can close ...

14:49:50 [richardschwerdtfeger]

Resolution: move Issue 583 to UAIG 1.1 as this will be a 1.1 issue having to deal with native host language semantics

14:50:00 [janina]

rs: 584

14:50:02 [clown]

issu3-584?

14:50:09 [clown]

issue-584?

14:50:09 [trackbot]

issue-584 -- Firefox has introduce a role mapping of grouping for rowgroup (should this be consistent across platforms) -- open

14:50:09 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/584

14:50:47 [janina]

clown: Need to update MSAA / IA2

14:52:06 [janina]

clown: Think it came from AT as a result of testing

14:52:11 [janina]

rs: so what to do?

14:52:28 [janina]

jg: Do we need do anything?

14:55:24 [clown]

issue-585?

14:55:24 [trackbot]

issue-585 -- What to do with role=rowgroup? -- open

14:55:24 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/585

14:56:53 [janina]

rs: put it in as role system-group, leave the rest alone as they're not mapped

14:57:36 [janina]

clown: did i run at-spi test? can you tell?

14:58:14 [janina]

rs: yes

14:58:40 [janina]

RESOLUTION: Close 584

14:58:48 [janina]

clown 585

14:58:56 [clown]

issue-585?

14:58:56 [trackbot]

issue-585 -- What to do with role=rowgroup? -- open

14:58:56 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/585

14:59:06 [janina]

clown: appears the same as 584 to me

14:59:15 [janina]

rs: close

14:59:28 [janina]

RESOLUTION: Close 585

14:59:34 [janina]

rs: 598

14:59:42 [janina]

clown: believe it's done

15:00:12 [janina]

RESOLUTION: close 598

15:00:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]

issue 598 was completed by action 1257

15:00:33 [janina]

close by action 1257

15:00:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]

Rich: issue 598 was completed by action 1257

15:00:53 [janina]

rs: 600

15:01:05 [clown]

issue-600?

15:01:05 [trackbot]

issue-600 -- For IE Internet explorer exposes aria posinset in the ARIA Properties -- open

15:01:05 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/600

15:02:08 [janina]

mc: believe we can close

15:02:29 [janina]

mc: would have to be msaa + uia

15:03:24 [janina]

rs: aria properties attrib needs to be mapped -- change table

15:03:37 [janina]

rs: worked once, not any longer. so older ie it worked

15:04:55 [clown]

Action: Joseph to change the MSAA+UIA and UIA mappings of aria-posinset to (word smith): expose in AriaProperties.

15:04:55 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1286 - Change the msaa+uia and uia mappings of aria-posinset to (word smith): expose in ariaproperties. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2013-11-04].

15:05:31 [janina]

rs: aria-busy

15:05:34 [janina]

clown multiline

15:06:35 [MichaelC]

trackbot, associate action-1286 with issue-600

15:06:35 [trackbot]

action-1286 (Change the msaa+uia and uia mappings of aria-posinset to (word smith): expose in ariaproperties.) associated with issue-600.

15:06:55 [janina]

clown: 621

15:06:56 [clown]

issue-621?

15:06:56 [trackbot]

issue-621 -- Spec conflict: UAIG needs to not require UAs to fire selection change events unless aria-selected is changed -- open

15:06:56 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/621

15:07:06 [janina]

clown: made the change for jc, need confirmation

15:07:36 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_selection

15:07:55 [janina]

clown: "in the single selection case ..."

15:08:44 [janina]

RESOLUTION: Close 621

15:09:04 [janina]

clown: 591

15:09:09 [clown]

issue-591?

15:09:09 [trackbot]

issue-591 -- mapping of article to document role seems wrong -- raised

15:09:09 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/591

15:09:15 [janina]

clown: rs and sf discussing

15:10:35 [janina]

rs: there's also aria xml role attrib that will say "article"

15:10:48 [janina]

clown: table says exposed as document frame

15:11:02 [janina]

clown: and in msaa/ia2 it's role system document

15:11:15 [janina]

rs: but also the xml role

15:11:19 [janina]

clown: but not in the table

15:11:22 [janina]

rs: fix the table?

15:11:26 [janina]

clown OK

15:11:35 [janina]

rs: can do a test case to check

15:14:38 [janina]

Good!

15:15:11 [janina]

rs: can tweak expected results

15:15:18 [janina]

clown: and tweak uaig

15:15:26 [janina]

rs: also test, but will pass

15:15:33 [janina]

rs: put it in

15:16:51 [clown]

action: Joseph to add to the role mapping of 'article' for MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI that the 'article' is also exposed in object attributes xml-roles:article.

15:16:52 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1287 - Add to the role mapping of 'article' for msaa+ia2 and atk/at-spi that the 'article' is also exposed in object attributes xml-roles:article. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2013-11-04].

15:17:34 [clown]

trackbot, associate action-1287 with issue-591

15:17:34 [trackbot]

action-1287 (Add to the role mapping of 'article' for msaa+ia2 and atk/at-spi that the 'article' is also exposed in object attributes xml-roles:article.) associated with issue-591.

15:20:00 [janina]

rs: 600

15:20:01 [clown]

action: mark the UIA columns as "at risk".

15:20:02 [trackbot]

Error finding 'mark'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.

15:20:15 [janina]

js: we did it

15:20:26 [janina]

rs: 608

15:20:30 [clown]

issue-608?

15:20:30 [trackbot]

issue-608 -- aria-checked is undefined (state) can be false or not mapped -- raised

15:20:30 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/608

15:20:56 [janina]

jg: believe we agreed it's just how it's going to be

15:21:08 [janina]

rs: so nothing to do

15:21:17 [janina]

RESOLUTION: Close 608

15:21:46 [clown]

action-1263?

15:21:46 [trackbot]

action-1263 -- James Craig to AXARIABusy is probably going to change to something less ARIA-specific, like AXBusy or AXElementBusy -- due 2013-09-23 -- OPEN

15:21:46 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1263

15:22:21 [clown]

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121442

15:22:31 [janina]

clown: marked fixed, so changed in webkit

15:22:35 [janina]

rs: so we're ok

15:23:10 [janina]

mc: should ask jc, but presume he wants it reflect in uaig

15:23:53 [janina]

mc: seems test not updated

15:24:00 [janina]

rs: were they failing?

15:25:04 [janina]

mc: test 76 jg passed it

15:25:24 [janina]

mc: suggest it's aria-1.1 when we update

15:25:43 [janina]

js: for today we're ok

15:26:05 [clown]

action-1273?

15:26:05 [trackbot]

action-1273 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add rfc2119 should statements to uaig #mapping_events_selection regard event arrangement -- due 2013-10-21 -- OPEN

15:26:05 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1273

15:26:50 [clown]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_selection

15:27:38 [janina]

clown: ff thinks order shouldn't be specified

15:27:45 [janina]

mc: believe we agreed this is a should

15:27:50 [janina]

mc so no test

15:28:20 [janina]

mc: think we can tweak tuesday, if need be

15:29:17 [janina]

rs: agree to remove ordering

15:29:35 [janina]

clown agree

15:30:13 [clown]

action-1283?

15:30:13 [trackbot]

action-1283 -- Michael Cooper to Add aria spec live region tests to the aria implementation guide tests, and run those test cases for mac -- due 2013-10-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW

15:30:13 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1283

15:31:02 [janina]

mc: will do

15:33:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=2

15:35:17 [janina]

clown: tweaked the uaig, and the test is now obe

15:36:24 [janina]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:36:24 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-pf-minutes.html janina

15:36:57 [Zakim]

-Janina_Sajka

15:38:01 [Zakim]

-Jon_Gunderson

15:44:08 [clown]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=31

15:49:00 [clown]

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA-UAIG/1.0/tests/test-files/test31.html

15:55:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA-UAIG/1.0/tests/test-files/test40.html#

15:59:21 [MichaelC]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:59:21 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-pf-minutes.html MichaelC

15:59:24 [Zakim]

-Joseph_Scheuhammer

15:59:40 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

15:59:45 [Zakim]

-Rich_Schwerdtfeger

15:59:46 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM has ended

15:59:46 [Zakim]

Attendees were Michael_Cooper, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina_Sajka, Jon_Gunderson

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16:16:49 [MichaelC]

meeting: ARIA

16:16:53 [MichaelC]

chair: Rich_Schwerdtfeger

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scribeOptions: -final

16:17:12 [MichaelC]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:17:12 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-pf-minutes.html MichaelC

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