Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference -- 28 Oct 2013

<trackbot> Date: 28 October 2013

<scribe> scribe: tzviya

aacc is gcapiel

zakin, aaaa is jean kaplansky

madi opens the meeting

intro, admin

approval of last week's minutes
...https: //www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dpub/2013-10-21

approved

next item

new members?

madi: new members

laura fowler

Laura: work in enterprise architecture at educational testing serice
... with mark hakkinen and others

madi: ETS is already a member of W3C
... other new members?

thank, ivan

new use cases

madi: bert sent update from MathML WG, please summarize

Bert: was a UC about interactive use of mathematics
... MathML WG started writing note about interactivity, example: fill-in blank in math
... this was a note that never got published
... added to the comments of the use case
... uses <input> from HTML in MathML
... if anyone wants to follow up, happy to discuss
... see note in http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/MathML_UC#MathML_2

suzanne: new use case for a11y
... mirroring resources

<madi> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Mirror_Sources_UC

suzanne: important for accessible resource to match opther resources
... simple example is pagination
... audio transcripts have a similar issue

student must know which transcript s/he is responsible to study

scribe: this extends to markup as well
... if a resource is a bullet list in resource, must be bullet list in both, not alpha list in one and bullet list in another

tzviya: this will overlap the behavioral adaptive content group

madi: suzanne spoke about timed tests, anything to add?

suzanne: not now, but laura may have something to add once she reads

tpac agenda topics

madi: logistics for TPAC should be settled by now
... posted informal list by now
... one topic not on list was pagination, but that will be discussed
... pagination is on the agenda
... fonts and typography potential agenda item, but need to discuss with ???
... inforgraphics is a topic that was suggested by Tzviya

tzviya: this is not a topic I am qualified to lead

madi: behavioral adaptive content is another topic

tzviya: this is a topic to discuss, but I will not be at TPAC and was not able to work on this much last week (no computer)
... will call in to as much of TPAC as I can

Ivan: let me and markus know what availability is

BillK: typogaphy overlaps a lot with pagination and we may want to combine the two

dauwhe: keeping an open mind about what pagination means

ivan: is it correct that some of the issues are more related to HTML than CSS?

tzviya: yes

Ivan: we are trying to get reps from CSS so once we have your schedule we will try to synchronize with them

madi: another topic is security. sharad?

sharad: what would the group like to see? this will help to prepare
... I have experience and I will prepare based on expectations and requirements

ivan: discussion over last few days has shown that once someone provokes email discussion, the list wakes up

sharad: I will send a list of question related to ebooks and content distribution
... is it possible to talk to ivan off line as well?

ivan: yes, but not today

sharad: this may not take 3 hours

fjh: what is specific to ebooks vs HTML5? Are there any specific security concerns related to offline operation??

Sharad: this will be addressed

<fjh> what should we consider beyond same origin policies?

made: question for ivan: should we explore discussions from list at TPAC?
... such as spacing issue

ivan: this is in some sense a typographic issue
... we can pick them up in task forces and see where they go

billK: one observation: the most salient issue that came out of that discussion is the cultural differences
... not just language differences. This will avoid eliminating options

Dauwhe: this is a good topic for CSSWG
... because there was a text replacement option in CSS, would like to push to get that back into CSS

Ivan: I contacted Koji about this because he [provided information that I didn't know about
... I encouraged him to join this meeting, but there are time differences

madi: will koji be at TPAC?

<Zakim> Bert, you wanted to ask how authors currently do (or do not) type the spaces.

ivan: yes Koji will be at CSS

bert: what is the input? What does it look like? where are spaces? This would inform CSS WG
... Does it differ across cultures/languages

madi: this would be very informative. Does such a thing exist

billK: this assumes author = writer
... a lot will depend on what is available on keyboard. Thin space and nbsp are not available to authors

ivan: true, but I see regular spaces before punctuation in french

BillK: practices often change

tzviya

tzviya: there are also differences across segments of the industry
... indentation of paragraphs is more common in trade
... non-indented paragraphs and extra space between paragraphs is more common in professional books

<ivan> Resolution: topics for TPAC: (1) Pagination, Dave (2) Infographics, but chair is needed (3) font/typography, Vlad (4) Behavioral adaption, Tzviya (5) Security, Sharad

metadata

Metadata task force?

madi: Bill, please introduce the topic

billK: do we need a Task Force on metadata or are the features of HTML and CSS sufficient?
... be mindful of the types of metadata: rights, subject, etc.
... publishers increasingly want to include this at a more granular level
... we have done this by adding <div class ="x">
... there is also microdata and RDFa
... is there a need to change W3C specs?
... we do not want to discuss individual vocabularies
... are there sufficient vocabularies?
... ivan asked would it be useful to create a clearing house for these vocabularies?

<gcapiel> +q

billK: for example, book publishers are usually aware of ONIX, but not aware of PRISM (used in magazines)
... neither magazines nor books are usually aware of MARC, TEI, etc

<azaroth> +q

billK: what is in scope? would it be helpful?

ivan: we have to be careful about terminology
... a WG would be separate from this IG (within W3C)
... it is a question about whether this group could answer with a yes/no
... let
... us define clearing house
... we could define each vocabulary and how they relate to one another

<ivan> http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/

ivan: this link is an example of linked vocabilaries
... the other possibility is to create formal mapping between these vocabularies
... should this be done by this IG or by organizations that host these vocabularies?

gcapiel: I've been working with Bill on enhancing vocabularies like schema.org, a search vocab

<ivan> somewhat similar work done at W3C in the past

gcapiel: it may be that what we need for publishing will not move fast enough
... schema.org will not address these issues in time
... this issue needs to be addressed

BillK: Gerardo's points are excellent
... this is not just metadata about the document, but metadata within the document

azaroth: love/hate relationship with metadata standards. We need to be careful not to disappear down a hole
... we should point to standards, not try to incorporate them all

<dauwhe> http://xkcd.com/927/

azaroth: should not try to provide crosswalks

fjh: please summarize what gerardo said

<azaroth> +1

billK: not only are there many standards, but they are constantly evolving

ivan: if we decide to set up a clearing house then we have to be conscious of the fact that the content is dynamic
... and the community has to be able to maintain it even after the WG is gone

fjh: I would be concerned about ongoing maintenance

gcapiel: i think there are a lot of metadata standards, and I'd hate to reinvent the wheel
... we need to make sure it's clear how to use existing standards within HTML
... in terms of ongoing maintenance, that is an issue if W3C takes on metadata work
... it might make sense to point to existing specs

BillK: perhaps the goal should be advising about how to make metadata specs interoperable

ivan: fully agree with gerardo that defining a metadata spec is not something that we want to do
... there is an intersection with annotations

<azaroth> I agree with Ivan :)

ivan: in that we have to a way define a URI, a way to uniquely identify something
... IDPF has a separate document on this, but not sure that it covers what we need

<fjh> is that a TAG discussion topic?

ivan: we may want to address this ourselves or ask W3C to address this

<azaroth> (Also agree that the IDPF work is currently insufficient for the DPUB IG's needs)

ivan: W3C is setting up a group to address best practices for publishing on the web
... this will include describing data
... and will be of interest for this group as well
... probably will begin in Dec

madi: conclusion seems to be that we don't need a task force

ivan: i don't agree
... I think we may need a task force, but it's different from other task forces

<gcapiel> I agree

<azaroth> Continue to agree with Ivan

ivan: this task force will research and recommend to W3C where to explore further

<fjh> thanks

BillK: makes sense

Madi: we defined what this task force will not do. Will continue to define what the task force will fo

<ivan> trackbot, stop telcon

<trackbot> Sorry, ivan, I don't understand 'trackbot, stop telcon'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

<ivan> trackbot, end telcon

- DRAFT -

Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

28 Oct 2013

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