15:49:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
15:49:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-irc
15:49:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:49:30 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #audio
15:49:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
15:49:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:49:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
15:49:33 <trackbot> Date: 17 October 2013
15:50:25 <olivier> Agenda+ finding a new home for webaudio sections about to be removed - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0055.html
15:50:34 <olivier> Agenda+ spec status
15:50:39 <olivier> Agenda+ review of action items
15:51:00 <olivier> Agenda+ TAG feedback processing
15:51:09 <olivier> Agenda+ unprefixing / best practices
15:51:27 <olivier> Chair: olivier
15:51:31 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
15:51:36 <olivier> Scribe: chrislowis
15:51:44 <olivier> Regrets: ehsan
15:56:11 <chrislowis> Zakim, what's the code
15:56:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'what's the code', chrislowis
15:56:14 <chrislowis> Zakim, what's the code?
15:56:14 <Zakim> the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chrislowis
15:56:27 <olivier> Agenda+ Next Meeting
15:56:39 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
15:56:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:56:52 <chrislowis> Zakim, IPcaller is me
15:56:52 <Zakim> +chrislowis; got it
15:58:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:58:56 <olivier> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:58:57 <Zakim> +olivier; got it
15:59:04 <olivier> zakim, I also have mdjp
15:59:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I also have mdjp', olivier
15:59:12 <olivier> zakim, olivier also has mdjp
15:59:12 <Zakim> +mdjp; got it
16:01:00 <Zakim> +??P12
16:01:14 <olivier> zakim, ??P12 is jernoble
16:01:14 <Zakim> +jernoble; got it
16:01:15 <jernoble> zakim, ??P12 is me
16:01:15 <Zakim> I already had ??P12 as jernoble, jernoble
16:01:20 <jernoble> J)
16:01:21 <jernoble> :)
16:01:54 <joe> joe has joined #audio
16:03:02 <olivier> Agenda?
16:03:06 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aaaa
16:03:06 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
16:03:09 <cwilso> zakim, aaa has cwilso, rtoyg
16:03:09 <Zakim> sorry, cwilso, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
16:03:14 <cwilso> zakim, aaaa has cwilso, rtoyg
16:03:15 <Zakim> +cwilso, rtoyg; got it
16:03:21 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #audio
16:03:21 <Zakim> +gmandyam
16:03:31 <Zakim> +padenot
16:03:43 <olivier> zakim, who is here?
16:03:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see chrislowis, olivier, jernoble, +1.650.214.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, gmandyam, padenot
16:03:45 <Zakim> olivier has olivier, mdjp
16:03:46 <Zakim> +1.650.214.aaaa has cwilso, rtoyg
16:03:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see gmandyam, joe, jernoble, Zakim, RRSAgent, colinbdclark, chrislowis, johnwbyrd1, kennyluck, shepazu, trackbot, olivier, heath, mdjp, cwilso, paul___irish, rtoyg,
16:03:46 <Zakim> ... padenot, toyoshim
16:03:59 <olivier> zakim, aaaa is cwilso
16:03:59 <Zakim> +cwilso; got it
16:04:08 <olivier> zakim, cwilso also has rtoyg
16:04:08 <Zakim> rtoyg was already listed in cwilso, olivier
16:04:36 <olivier> Agenda?
16:04:38 <chrislowis> olivier: let's get started
16:04:51 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:04:51 <Zakim> agendum 3. "review of action items" taken up [from olivier]
16:04:59 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda
16:05:07 <olivier> ACTION-78
16:05:07 <trackbot> ACTION-78 -- Doug Schepers to Make sure web platform docs has up to date doc on web audio -- due 2013-10-10 -- OPEN
16:05:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/78
16:05:14 <Zakim> + +1.617.871.aabb
16:05:17 <rtoyg_> rtoyg_ has joined #audio
16:05:22 <chrislowis> olivier: Action 78 - Doug what's the status of that?
16:05:29 <joe> Zakim, aabb is joe
16:05:29 <Zakim> +joe; got it
16:05:31 <kennyluck> kennyluck has left #audio
16:05:39 <olivier> ACTION-79
16:05:39 <trackbot> ACTION-79 -- Paul Adenot to Change editors names and editor's draft link in web-audio draft -- due 2013-10-10 -- OPEN
16:05:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/79
16:05:42 <chrislowis> shepazu: leave it open for now, I've looked at it but still some more to do.
16:06:00 <olivier> close ACTION-79
16:06:00 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-79.
16:06:02 <chrislowis> olivier: I think that has been done by me, cwilso and padenot.
16:06:22 <chrislowis> olivier: on a sub note this was part of the preparation for publishing a new working draft
16:06:45 <chrislowis> olivier: well done to the group for publishing! It's our first since Dec 2012, but we did it.
16:06:57 <olivier> ACTION-66
16:06:57 <trackbot> ACTION-66 -- Chris Lowis to Look into what dezippering in webkit was based on -- due 2013-10-17 -- OPEN
16:06:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/66
16:07:04 <chrislowis> olivier: and we should be faster/ought to be faster from now thanks to padenot's refactoring.
16:07:39 <olivier> ACTION-66 due in 2 weeks
16:07:39 <trackbot> Set ACTION-66 Look into what dezippering in webkit was based on due date to 2013-10-31.
16:07:43 <padenot> (the refactoring in question: http://padenot.github.io/web-audio-api/, basically porting the spec to ReSpec)
16:08:15 <olivier> ACTION-69 due in 2 weeks
16:08:15 <trackbot> Set ACTION-69 Tidy up "how to contribute" section in wiki due date to 2013-10-31.
16:08:37 <olivier> action-70 due in 2 weeks
16:08:37 <trackbot> Set action-70 Look into migrating all webaudio issues from bugzilla to github due date to 2013-10-31.
16:08:49 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 3
16:08:49 <Zakim> agendum 3, review of action items, closed
16:08:50 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:08:50 <Zakim> 1. finding a new home for webaudio sections about to be removed - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0055.html [from olivier]
16:09:00 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:09:00 <Zakim> agendum 2. "spec status" taken up [from olivier]
16:09:12 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/
16:09:36 <chrislowis> olivier: we have a new draft of web audio as I mentioned, I just wanted to gve the editors a chance to tell us where things are and if they need help.
16:09:55 <chrislowis> padenot: right now, I've been spending time refactoring the spec, and it is much easier to make changes now.
16:10:12 <chrislowis> padenot: we have a tool to generate webidl references, toc and so on.
16:10:30 <chrislowis> padenot: I've started looking at races in the api and I'll be sending an email out to see how to fix that.
16:10:50 <chrislowis> padenot: and the next big change is to integrate roc's api to fix the data race.
16:11:27 <chrislowis> olivier: I saw today that chrislowis opened a PR today, is that an ok way of working padenot, or better after you've done the refactoring.
16:11:53 <chrislowis> padenot: it should be pretty easy to refactor, so no problem. And issuing a PR when there's a non-trivial change is good practice.
16:13:33 <chrislowis> cwilso: it would be better to set up your hosted version to use pages so that changes can be seen without having to read through HTML.
16:14:00 <chrislowis> cwilso: I also wanted to get the WebMIDI spec updated so we can get commentary on it.
16:14:54 <chrislowis> olivier: there's a block on changes around TPAC, so we should be mindful of that.
16:15:14 <chrislowis> cwilso: I sent some changes to the list which should be the basis of the next public draft - did you get that?
16:15:23 <chrislowis> olivier: Yes, it seems the mail was sent.
16:15:28 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0050.html
16:16:04 <olivier> Agenda+ review webmidi changes
16:16:14 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 2
16:16:14 <Zakim> agendum 2, spec status, closed
16:16:15 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:16:15 <Zakim> 1. finding a new home for webaudio sections about to be removed - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0055.html [from olivier]
16:16:25 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:16:25 <Zakim> agendum 1. "finding a new home for webaudio sections about to be removed - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0055.html" taken up [from olivier]
16:17:05 <chrislowis> olivier: shepazu pointed out that there's some secitons in the spec that may have been useful originally, but don't belong now.
16:17:09 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#ExampleApplications
16:17:13 <chrislowis> olivier: in particular section 16 ^^
16:18:13 <chrislowis> olivier: I'd quite like to remove the mention of specific games and so on.
16:19:57 <chrislowis> olivier: there's a link to a post about the game, but it doesn't give too much detail.
16:20:03 <chrislowis> olivier: I'm happy for the editors to remove it.
16:21:01 <chrislowis> shepazu: I think removing most of it would be good, the mention of the studio set up for room effects was quite interesting and gave colour to the spec.
16:21:18 <chrislowis> olivier: but perhaps would be better in a blog post?
16:22:10 <chrislowis> olivier: could you take the action to remove it at some point?
16:22:36 <chrislowis> olivier: the example application section and the photos in section 12.
16:22:38 <chrislowis> cwilso: sure.
16:23:23 <olivier> ACTION: cwilso to remove webaudio section on example applications, photos from section on convolution, and salvage anything valuable - due in 4 weeks
16:23:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-80 - Remove webaudio section on example applications, photos from section on convolution, and salvage anything valuable [on Chris Wilson - due 2013-11-14].
16:23:38 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 1
16:23:38 <Zakim> agendum 1, finding a new home for webaudio sections about to be removed - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0055.html, closed
16:23:42 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:23:42 <Zakim> 4. TAG feedback processing [from olivier]
16:23:50 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 4
16:23:50 <Zakim> agendum 4. "TAG feedback processing" taken up [from olivier]
16:24:42 <chrislowis> olivier: chrislowis raised a few issues today that capture the TAG feedback.
16:24:57 <chrislowis> olivier: I wondered if we wanted to schedule a future call to address this feedback.
16:25:24 <chrislowis> olivier: people from the TAG have been in touch to say that they want the feedback to be more of a conversation.
16:25:36 <chrislowis> olivier: if there's no suggestion of how to do this, then we can put it on the agenda.
16:25:38 <chrislowis> q+
16:25:57 <olivier> ack chrislowis
16:26:12 <olivier> chrislowis: wanted to contact the TAG and point to the issues
16:26:35 <olivier> ACTION: olivier to contact TAG, point them to TAG issues in github, continue conversation there
16:26:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-81 - Contact tag, point them to tag issues in github, continue conversation there [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-10-24].
16:26:43 <chrislowis> cwilso: I think some of these issues have already been addressed, so we can just link the issues.
16:27:06 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 4
16:27:06 <Zakim> agendum 4, TAG feedback processing, closed
16:27:07 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:27:07 <Zakim> 5. unprefixing / best practices [from olivier]
16:27:17 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 5
16:27:17 <Zakim> agendum 5. "unprefixing / best practices" taken up [from olivier]
16:27:40 <olivier> https://github.com/WebAudio/demo-list
16:29:03 <cwilso> q+ to suggest that we should definitely figure out the connect() returning the node issue prior to anyone shipping unprefixed.
16:29:13 <olivier> ack cwilso
16:29:13 <Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to suggest that we should definitely figure out the connect() returning the node issue prior to anyone shipping unprefixed.
16:29:13 <chrislowis> olivier: does anyone know of any current effort looking at pushing "best practices" for web audio?
16:29:51 <chrislowis> cwilso: there are probably one or two issues in the TAG feedback that might have compatibility issues that we may want to address before un-prefixing.
16:29:53 <padenot> cwilso: hopefully fixed
16:30:13 <jernoble> q+ to ask about the "pause when disconnected" issue
16:30:23 <olivier> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/258?source=cc
16:30:32 <olivier> ack jernoble
16:30:32 <Zakim> jernoble, you wanted to ask about the "pause when disconnected" issue
16:30:40 <chrislowis> cwilso: it would be a good thing to, for example, return the node from calls to connect() as that would be a really nice convenience, and if we are going to do it it doesn't make sense to ship implementations without it.
16:31:12 <chrislowis> jernoble: if we are going to un-prefix, we should decide what to do when you disconnect a node, blink/webkit have a different implementation to mozilla.
16:31:18 <chrislowis> cwilso: yep, we should sort that out too.
16:32:30 <olivier> related issue to the disconnect (?) https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/43?source=cc
16:33:13 <olivier> ACTION: olivier to check whether we are tracking issue for disconnect behaviour
16:33:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Check whether we are tracking issue for disconnect behaviour [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-10-24].
16:33:31 <mdjp> q+
16:34:24 <chrislowis> olivier: on the wider subject of education/best practices, anything else you know is happening? shepazu - any on your radar for web platform docs?
16:35:21 <olivier> ack mdjp
16:35:39 <chrislowis> shepazu: I might be able to find someone to work on the docs.
16:36:33 <chrislowis> mdjp: there's quite a lot of demos out there, would it be a good idea for the group to try and put together some best practices?
16:37:36 <chrislowis> olivier: would anyone else like to work on docs around best practices, and secondly, how would we go about hosting/building this?
16:38:35 <chrislowis> shepazu: I have found many examples of how to create an oscillator, but I haven't found many examples of how to work with the rest of the spec.
16:39:01 <marcosc> marcosc has joined #audio
16:39:17 <chrislowis> shepazu: I have found quite a lot of docs about scheduling and play back of pre-recorded sounds, and some on creating oscillators. But I looked for examples of using the panner node, and couldn't find any.
16:39:57 <cwilso> q+
16:40:23 <olivier> ack cwilso
16:41:22 <chrislowis> cwilso: There's some examples on HTML5 Rocks about the panner node, for example, but it's old and may not be up-to-date with changes to the spec.
16:42:12 <chrislowis> cwilso: I don't have enough time to do this, and if I could come up with some tech writing help, I still may not be able to make a dent in it.
16:42:28 <chrislowis> cwilso: I think having a set of how-to-do documents would be really helpful.
16:42:33 <joe> q+
16:42:40 <chrislowis> cwilso: something like "here's how to do chorus" would be good too.
16:42:46 <olivier> q+
16:42:49 <olivier> ack joe
16:43:27 <shepazu> q+
16:43:54 <marcosc_> marcosc_ has joined #audio
16:44:00 <chrislowis> joe: I think there's so much to this API that it's beyond one person to document it all.
16:44:02 <olivier> q- later
16:44:12 <olivier> ack shepazu
16:44:25 <chrislowis> cwilso: I agree, and I think we just need to help people level-up.
16:44:42 <joe> s/so much to this API/so many different ways to present this API/
16:44:57 <chrislowis> joe: thanks Joe.
16:45:25 <chrislowis> shepazu: I think there's a set of people who want to use the API who don't know anything about audio, that's the audience I'd like to help.
16:46:02 <chrislowis> shepazu: I've been reading a lot about different kinds of synthesis, for example, but how-to-get-started with audio, as well as how to use the API would give us a lot of bang for the buck,
16:46:27 <chrislowis> shepazu: as I think the API has been designed for those coming with a digital audio background.
16:46:31 <olivier> ack me
16:47:45 <chrislowis> olivier: two things: I hear some consensus that we want to give good examples to people, but that we don't have time yet. But perhaps we could start an effort to collect good examples (and documentations) and point people towards that?
16:48:11 <chrislowis> olivier: can I have a volunteer to get started on that?
16:48:24 <chrislowis> shepazu: if it's around web platform docs, I'm happy to get that started.
16:48:36 <chrislowis> (http://www.webplatform.org/)
16:49:28 <chrislowis> shepazu: would a good start be to take a survey of what's out there?
16:49:36 <chrislowis> olivier: sounds like a good idea.
16:50:28 <chrislowis> olivier: if you're happy to get it started on webplatform docs, that would get us started.
16:50:44 <chrislowis> olivier: here's an action item:
16:51:17 <olivier> action: shepazu to get started with a space on WPD to survey docs on good practice for webaudio
16:51:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-83 - Get started with a space on wpd to survey docs on good practice for webaudio [on Doug Schepers - due 2013-10-24].
16:51:26 <olivier> action-83 due in 4 weeks
16:51:26 <trackbot> Set action-83 Get started with a space on wpd to survey docs on good practice for webaudio due date to 2013-11-14.
16:51:40 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 5
16:51:40 <Zakim> agendum 5, unprefixing / best practices, closed
16:51:41 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:51:41 <Zakim> 6. Next Meeting [from olivier]
16:52:43 <chrislowis> olivier: we're fairly stable at this time, which is good. But I'm not available on that date.
16:53:11 <chrislowis> olivier: it's also halloween so let's aim for 7th November.
16:53:25 <chrislowis> shepazu: your assignment is to make spooky sounds!
16:53:32 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 6
16:53:32 <Zakim> agendum 6, Next Meeting, closed
16:53:33 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:53:33 <Zakim> 7. review webmidi changes [from olivier]
16:54:01 <cwilso> http://cwilso.github.io/web-midi-api/
16:54:16 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 7
16:54:16 <Zakim> agendum 7. "review webmidi changes" taken up [from olivier]
16:55:13 <chrislowis> cwilso: now there's a map of inputs and outputs, which is a new change.
16:55:29 <chrislowis> cwilso: e.g. http://cwilso.github.io/web-midi-api/#midioutputmap-interface
16:55:47 <chrislowis> cwilso: section 13 gives some examples of using foreach http://cwilso.github.io/web-midi-api/#examples-of-web-midi-api-usage-in-javascript
16:56:07 <Zakim> -gmandyam
16:56:12 <chrislowis> cwilso: and you can also index them with a number, which is a little odd.
16:57:38 <chrislowis> cwilso: I also inserted into the spec an example of a midi synth that uses web audio to show how the two can work together.
16:57:48 <chrislowis> cwilso: it's a couple of hundred lines or so.
16:58:12 <cwilso> s/a little odd/mildly discouraged [since they can come and go]
16:58:36 <chrislowis> shepazu: do you think there's much more work to do on this spec?
16:59:21 <chrislowis> cwilso: no, I don't think so. There's more pressure on me now to get this api out there, since blink will be disabling np-api support that will break my polyfill.
16:59:22 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
16:59:56 <chrislowis> cwilso: there's some open issues. 3 are addressed by this proposal, 1 is a v2 issue, and one is a "won't fix for now" but we want to track it.
17:00:25 <chrislowis> cwilso: we're going to start work on a windows implementation which might give us more clarity on that issue.
17:01:26 <olivier> Topic: AOB
17:02:22 <chrislowis> olivier: we're at the top of the hour, so let's adjourn. We'll meet in 3 weeks!
17:02:23 <Zakim> -jernoble
17:02:27 <Zakim> -cwilso
17:02:30 <Zakim> -joe
17:02:31 <Zakim> -olivier
17:02:31 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
17:02:35 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:02:40 <Zakim> -chrislowis
17:03:33 <olivier> Present: chrislowis, olivier, shepazu, jernoble, joe, gmandyam, padenot, cwilso, mdjp, rtoyg_
17:03:38 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:03:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:04:24 <olivier> zakim, bye
17:04:24 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were chrislowis, olivier, mdjp, jernoble, Doug_Schepers, cwilso, rtoyg, gmandyam, padenot, +1.617.871.aabb, joe
17:04:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #audio
17:04:42 <olivier> rrsagent, bye
17:04:42 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-actions.rdf :
17:04:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cwilso to remove webaudio section on example applications, photos from section on convolution, and salvage anything valuable - due in 4 weeks [1]
17:04:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-irc#T16-23-23
17:04:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: olivier to contact TAG, point them to TAG issues in github, continue conversation there [2]
17:04:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-irc#T16-26-35
17:04:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: olivier to check whether we are tracking issue for disconnect behaviour [3]
17:04:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-irc#T16-33-13
17:04:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: shepazu to get started with a space on WPD to survey docs on good practice for webaudio [4]
17:04:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-audio-irc#T16-51-17