20:51:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:51:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-indie-ui-irc
20:51:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:51:34 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:51:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:51:36 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
20:51:37 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:51:37 <trackbot> Date: 16 October 2013
20:52:09 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
20:52:09 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
20:52:09 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
20:52:09 <janina> agenda+ Calendar Review and Updates Through January 2014
20:52:09 <janina> agenda+ TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013
20:52:12 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Report
20:52:14 <janina> agenda+ Events Requirements Walkthrough http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
20:52:17 <janina> agenda+ Events Testing Update
20:52:20 <janina> agenda+ User Context Update; FPWD Criteria Discussion
20:52:22 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:52:25 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:52:28 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 30 October at 21:00Z)
20:52:31 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
20:58:11 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
20:58:12 <Zakim> +??P0
20:58:26 <janina>  zakim, ??P0 is me
20:58:26 <Zakim> +janina; got it
20:58:40 <janina> zakim, Janina_Sajka has me
20:58:40 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I do not recognize a party named 'Janina_Sajka'
20:58:54 <janina> zakim, janina has Janina_Sajka
20:58:54 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
20:59:38 <Zakim> +??P1
20:59:40 <Zakim> -??P1
20:59:40 <Zakim> +??P1
21:01:05 <andy> andy has joined #indie-ui
21:01:47 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #indie-ui
21:02:32 <jasonjgw> jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
21:02:37 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:02:53 <Zakim> +??P3
21:05:11 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
21:05:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:06:19 <Zakim> +??P4
21:06:43 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:06:51 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P1 is Andy_Heath
21:06:51 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
21:06:52 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P3 is Jason_White
21:06:52 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
21:07:06 <Zakim> +hober
21:08:03 <MichaelC> scribeNick: Ryladog
21:08:58 <Ryladog> JW: I want to not Andy's contribution on Use Cases
21:09:21 <Ryladog> JS: Michael should we delve in into the mechanical issues of Use Cases
21:09:35 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:09:38 <Zakim> +[Apple]
21:09:46 <Ryladog> MC: I had set upa seprerate wiki page...but we will need to merge those
21:09:48 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple has jcraig
21:09:48 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
21:09:59 <Ryladog> AH: I can add them
21:10:09 <jcraig> Zakim, who is on the phone?
21:10:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, Andy_Heath, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jason_White, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, hober, [Apple]
21:10:11 <Zakim> [Apple] has jcraig
21:10:11 <Zakim> janina has Janina_Sajka
21:10:11 <Ryladog> MC: You can worry about formatting later
21:10:54 <jcraig> Zakim, janina is Janina_Sajka
21:10:54 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
21:10:57 <Ryladog> MC: There is a larfe section for Scenarion Use Cases, and a sperate for requirments
21:11:32 <Ryladog> AH: I thought there was some kind of automated formatting of that
21:11:36 <Ryladog> MC: I wish
21:11:44 <Ryladog> AH: Tell me wherer to put it
21:11:50 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/User_Context/Requirements User Context Requirements
21:12:32 <Ryladog> AH: OK I wil do it manually. I will look at whether that will work
21:12:45 <Ryladog> MC: Wikis have constartints
21:12:58 <Ryladog> JS: WElcome James
21:13:02 <janina> zakim, next item
21:13:02 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Calendar Review and Updates Through January 2014" taken up [from janina]
21:13:37 <Ryladog> JS: Timelines and Calendaring - I want to make some suggestions
21:14:01 <Ryladog> JS: On the 30th Europe will have left - Andy you will be at a hour earlier
21:14:58 <Ryladog> JS: It is 5pm EASTERN Standard time....
21:15:32 <Ryladog> JS: Looking at Nov and Dec
21:16:13 <Ryladog> JS: 30th , then for the 13th meeting - half of us will be in Shenzshen =  - we will not want to meet on the 13th
21:17:36 <Ryladog> JS: So then meet on the 20th, I suggest because we will have plenty to report on. And then go every two week from there. 5th of Dec and then the 12th
21:17:58 <Ryladog> JS: Our afternoon calls will be reasonable enough for Andy
21:18:20 <Ryladog> JS: I will have a schedule for our meeting by the 30th
21:18:22 <janina> zakim, next item
21:18:22 <Zakim> agendum 3. "TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013" taken up [from janina]
21:18:38 <MichaelC> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20131113&p1=136&p2=1232
21:19:10 <Ryladog> JS: Several are palnning to be there and will talk about on User REquirements
21:19:56 <Ryladog> JS: There will be buses from HongKong Shenzen
21:20:27 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/MeetingTaxis TPAC travel scheduling wiki
21:20:45 <Ryladog> MC: You should let W3C know that you are interested - they need enough folks before they will actually get the buses
21:21:29 <Ryladog> JS: Jason does not want to travel from HongKong to Shenzshen alone, can you help with that Michael
21:21:46 <Ryladog> JW: I will arrive on Sunday morning
21:21:59 <Ryladog> JS: We have time still
21:22:13 <Ryladog> JW: I am waiting for h visa application to go through
21:22:55 <Ryladog> JS: Noting that there are quite few WebApps people will be there - shoudl we try to get wider participation at TPAC
21:23:24 <Ryladog> JC: I think there will be a conference line for both - and they are meeting on different days
21:23:58 <Ryladog> JC: Let us set up something for tTHursday then - I am planning on basically working from hoe to be available for as many conference times as possible
21:24:15 <Ryladog> JW: On the Wed are there events ?
21:24:41 <Ryladog> JS: Most of Wed is not pres-scheduled - mwe would want to do something
21:25:43 <Ryladog> JS: We will be participating in Lightening Talks - we could suggest one for our group to interest the Web Apps and other folks
21:26:02 <janina> zakim, next item
21:26:02 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Editor's Report" taken up [from janina]
21:27:12 <Ryladog> JS: Beefing up examples to be a little less accessibility geto-ized - W3C WAI agrees with that - we will have planty to tweek - and correct before TPAC
21:27:31 <Ryladog> JC: I have been on vacationand sick since we last met - so not lot was done
21:28:11 <Ryladog> JC: Media Queies typr proposal - start off easy with proposing High Contrast type mode wotk with MS and OS 10 - for media query
21:28:14 <andy> q+
21:28:26 <Ryladog> LC: One is not specific to accessibili
21:29:05 <Ryladog> JC: We will do one off proposals so groups dont get put off and will help seperate and control issues
21:29:11 <janina> q?
21:29:13 <Ryladog> AH: thi sis a good idea
21:29:21 <janina> ack a
21:29:44 <Ryladog> AH: Micheal suggested we just keep a record of what is where in one list - that we see
21:30:02 <Ryladog> AH: We will keep our stuff togther with pointers
21:30:43 <Ryladog> JC: As a point of order do we - I think I sent the fornatted proposal to the IndieUi list sp I can send it to the CSS Working Group
21:30:50 <Ryladog> JW: It does ring a bell
21:31:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
21:31:23 <Ryladog> JC: I sent the Original so long ago - so I will repsond to the list with an update and then forward on to CCS WG
21:31:38 <Ryladog> RS: What ever happened to black on white issues
21:32:00 <Ryladog> JC: They proposed a vebdor prefoxed version
21:32:23 <Ryladog> JC: we talked about an extended version - their vendor specific and one open
21:32:48 <Ryladog> JC: I specifically included how MS Hogh Contrast mode would fit into the synrax
21:33:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/Hogh/High/
21:33:16 <Ryladog> JC: It looks like the Sept 27th I sent
21:33:23 <Ryladog> thanks Rich
21:33:57 <Ryladog> JC: having trouble finding IndieUI archive...
21:34:19 <jcraig> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Sep/0007.html
21:34:51 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:34:57 <Ryladog> JC: that is the email that was an update to Cynthia covers both MS High Contrast modes and easy switchers
21:35:30 <Ryladog> JS: while we wait for Rich to come back - we will look at your email
21:35:51 <Ryladog> JC: I will send out a new one today that will be formatted for the W3C CSS Working Group
21:36:18 <Ryladog> MC: What ypu are going to send is for starting the converrsation?
21:36:48 <Ryladog> JC: My plan is to send just one of them for the display colors inverted - here is the first one
21:37:05 <Ryladog> JC: So the second one would be the High Contrast Mode
21:37:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> calling back in
21:37:37 <Ryladog> MC: So we want to record/record as they build up? Can we start the tracking now?
21:38:28 <Ryladog> JC: whoever is managing medies queries can be applicable to CSS - whatever group ,manages the media querie for x
21:38:45 <Ryladog> JS: we want to keep our requirments as our requirements
21:38:45 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:39:23 <Ryladog> MC: I want to look our requirmenets when it goes off to these other entties and they keep it in their specs that wwe see is useful
21:39:37 <Ryladog> JC: I cannot deternine if they actually have tracker
21:39:51 <Ryladog> MC: They probably have one, but I am not sure what it is
21:40:36 <Ryladog> JS: Well we will need to figure that out and that we will be monitoring (insert more PC language here) what is done with each requirment
21:40:47 <Ryladog> JS: James I kope you feel better soon
21:41:04 <Ryladog> JS: We will continue on the 30th
21:41:10 <Ryladog> MC: Our Reqquirments
21:41:28 <Ryladog> MC: Events Requirments - two views
21:41:33 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements Events Requirements
21:41:51 <Ryladog> MC: What we have is Use Cases and SCenarios followed by Requirements
21:42:24 <Ryladog> MC: So the first main question to ak is the list of Use Cases and Scenarios complete? Have we discribed thm all
21:42:52 <Ryladog> MC: The seoncdd for each use case/scenaion are the requirments that it points to complete and documented?
21:43:06 <Ryladog> MC: Then the reverse path -
21:43:25 <Ryladog> MC: Look at the requirments and are they justifoed with an eixting Use Case
21:43:38 <Ryladog> MC: those are the two veiws we need to take on these
21:43:45 <Ryladog> MC: we only have 15 minutes
21:44:01 <Ryladog> MC: A few months ago I combined these
21:44:07 <Ryladog> MC: 1t Map
21:44:19 <Ryladog> MC: 2nd Pop-up
21:44:36 <Ryladog> MC: 3rd expand./coolaps
21:44:43 <Ryladog> MC: 4th
21:44:52 <Ryladog> 5th is moving Focus around
21:45:06 <Ryladog> MC: 6th Media Player Commands
21:45:11 <Ryladog> MC: volumn
21:45:20 <Ryladog> MC: Zoom seprate from Map
21:45:27 <Ryladog> MC: Pan seperate from Map
21:45:37 <Ryladog> MC: moving Point of Regard
21:45:48 <Ryladog> MC: Continiuous and discontinuous
21:45:57 <Ryladog> MC: Hiding and showing txt
21:46:02 <Ryladog> MC: Neerness
21:46:18 <Ryladog> MC: or gide additional text with out selection
21:46:29 <Ryladog> MC: Summary details expanding
21:46:50 <Ryladog> JC: So it is possible that it is going to be covered by expand /collapse
21:46:59 <Ryladog> JW: It is a long list
21:47:07 <Ryladog> MC: It is a long list
21:47:39 <Ryladog> MC: towards the bottom there is not much descriptinf ro them
21:47:57 <Ryladog> JS: We are not assuming that hese are all for 1.0 right
21:48:13 <Ryladog> MC: Maybe we should agree hat that is what we are doing as well
21:48:26 <Ryladog> MC: Almost all of them point to one requirements
21:49:04 <Ryladog> MC: I cannot imagine that those are the only requirements couple of requirments
21:49:34 <Ryladog> JW: I suppose one approach would be to ask people to review and have them suggest items are for 1.0 or a later version
21:49:47 <Ryladog> JW: Collect Issues in other wrds
21:50:08 <Ryladog> MC: Which of these might not be part of 1.0 just off hte top
21:50:41 <Ryladog> JC: One that is outside the scope of 1 - is moving abojects /resizing object ona canvas as they are not that cpmmon
21:50:53 <Ryladog> MC: Does tthat include th edrag and drop?
21:50:58 <Ryladog> JC: No.
21:51:29 <Ryladog> JC: Select something and perform some actipn on it - that is common enough i  thinkw e should keep that
21:52:12 <Ryladog> JC: We can already identify that we can split it into two diffeent different requirments
21:52:50 <Ryladog> JC: Drag ad Drop - mark request - and then operate on marked item
21:53:23 <Ryladog> MC: Ok you might find yourself needing to clarify the drag and drop scenarions and might need some clean up
21:53:48 <Ryladog> MC: and there ther is a Move UI Object - mthose will need eith r combination or seperation
21:54:00 <Ryladog> MC: Some were for pannoing and zooming
21:54:19 <Ryladog> JC: that is on the fence - one is already in there for zooming on a map
21:55:05 <Ryladog> JC: pan request and zoom request _ I wouldn't be broken up if we do have to move to 2.0
21:55:28 <Ryladog> JC: Manipulation Request covers acombination or individual ones
21:55:40 <Ryladog> MC: sound lie 1.0 scope
21:55:51 <Ryladog> MC: Pop-up is that in 1.0mscope
21:56:16 <Ryladog> JC: It  depends on what people mean by Pop-Up MC:
21:56:39 <janina> ?
21:56:42 <janina> q?
21:56:48 <Ryladog> MC: Pop-up menu is a select expand ad collpase - but if it is contexual there is a secondary action
21:57:16 <Ryladog> JC: Promary action it happens to shpw a dialog - these threee different scenarions
21:57:46 <Ryladog> RS: the pop-up comes from the OS lie functions. I like James simplified version of it
21:58:01 <Ryladog> MC: Maaybe the dialog component neeed to nbe moved to another
21:58:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> 2 minutes
21:58:32 <Ryladog> JC: We need to clarify the vocabularies we use
21:58:57 <Ryladog> MC: Open or collapse tree view
21:59:15 <Ryladog> JC: that is covered by exoand /collapse which is 1.0
21:59:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/exoand/expand/
21:59:31 <Ryladog> MCL next ?? include links and buttons
21:59:52 <Ryladog> JW: click events
22:00:14 <Ryladog> JC: you want a UI independent activation event
22:00:34 <Ryladog> JC: a general tap event would not unlock it
22:00:56 <Ryladog> JC: AT would/could activate it
22:01:12 <Ryladog> JW: Mac Os would be express event
22:01:20 <Ryladog> JS; good stopping point
22:02:20 <jcraig> https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
22:02:21 <Ryladog> MC: this discussion has helped me figure out some things we need to do - maybe we should continue
22:02:54 <Ryladog> JC: we have an issue 3
22:02:55 <MichaelC> issue-3?
22:02:55 <trackbot> issue-3 -- SecondaryAction (aka "Context Menu") -- open
22:02:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/issues/3
22:02:57 <MichaelC> action-53?
22:02:57 <trackbot> action-53 -- James Craig to Add ~"activate request" event to augment default action trigger when "click" handlers are inappropriate. -- due 2013-05-10 -- OPEN
22:02:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/53
22:03:02 <Ryladog> JC: action 53
22:03:19 <jcraig> https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/53
22:03:29 <Ryladog> JC: there is anote that authors should use click inmost scenarios
22:03:32 <jcraig> ISSUE-3 and ACTION-53
22:03:43 <Zakim> -hober
22:03:46 <Ryladog> JW: Is it possible to solve both with the same UI method
22:03:53 <Ryladog> JC: No I think they are different
22:04:11 <Ryladog> JW: if you had one for an action...
22:04:22 <Ryladog> JW: you would solve then all
22:04:48 <Ryladog> JW: is it a get
22:05:05 <Ryladog> JC: this coul ccause a performance hot on the AT
22:05:24 <Ryladog> JC: the browswer diesnt have to do anything
22:05:44 <Ryladog> JS: I thnk we want tto protect the declarative approach for authors
22:05:54 <Ryladog> RS: is this going to confuse authors
22:06:06 <Ryladog> JS: lts think about this some
22:06:54 <Ryladog> AH: We are going to have to do some radical surgery to the User Context Requirments
22:07:08 <Ryladog> AH: Does anyone mind if I do that?
22:07:30 <Ryladog> MC: yes we were bascially it is time to go to the next step
22:07:50 <Ryladog> JW: I just could supply the use case as I didnt know them well enough yet
22:08:04 <Ryladog> JS: this is a useful exersoze, I think this is helpful all around
22:08:22 <Zakim> -[Apple]
22:08:24 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:08:26 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:08:26 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
22:08:29 <Zakim> -Jason_White
22:08:33 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
22:08:36 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:08:37 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:08:37 <Zakim> Attendees were Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Andy_Heath, Jason_White, hober, jcraig
22:08:40 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
22:08:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
22:10:41 <MichaelC> s|MC: Our Reqquirments|topic: Events Requirements Walkthrough http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements|
22:10:51 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Oct/0007.html
22:11:05 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
22:11:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
22:11:29 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
22:11:29 <RRSAgent> I see no action items