IRC log of indie-ui on 2013-10-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:51:32 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:51:32 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-indie-ui-irc
20:51:34 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:51:34 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:51:36 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:51:36 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
20:51:37 [trackbot]
Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:51:37 [trackbot]
Date: 16 October 2013
20:52:09 [janina]
Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
20:52:09 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
20:52:09 [janina]
agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
20:52:09 [janina]
agenda+ Calendar Review and Updates Through January 2014
20:52:09 [janina]
agenda+ TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013
20:52:12 [janina]
agenda+ Editor's Report
20:52:14 [janina]
agenda+ Events Requirements Walkthrough http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
20:52:17 [janina]
agenda+ Events Testing Update
20:52:20 [janina]
agenda+ User Context Update; FPWD Criteria Discussion
20:52:22 [janina]
agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:52:25 [janina]
agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:52:28 [janina]
agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 30 October at 21:00Z)
20:52:31 [janina]
agenda+ Be Done
20:58:11 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
20:58:12 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:58:26 [janina]
zakim, ??P0 is me
20:58:26 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
20:58:40 [janina]
zakim, Janina_Sajka has me
20:58:40 [Zakim]
sorry, janina, I do not recognize a party named 'Janina_Sajka'
20:58:54 [janina]
zakim, janina has Janina_Sajka
20:58:54 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
20:59:38 [Zakim]
+??P1
20:59:40 [Zakim]
-??P1
20:59:40 [Zakim]
+??P1
21:01:05 [andy]
andy has joined #indie-ui
21:01:47 [Ryladog]
Ryladog has joined #indie-ui
21:02:32 [jasonjgw]
jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
21:02:37 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:02:53 [Zakim]
+??P3
21:05:11 [janina]
zakim, take up item 1
21:05:11 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:06:19 [Zakim]
+??P4
21:06:43 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:06:51 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P1 is Andy_Heath
21:06:51 [Zakim]
+Andy_Heath; got it
21:06:52 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P3 is Jason_White
21:06:52 [Zakim]
+Jason_White; got it
21:07:06 [Zakim]
+hober
21:08:03 [MichaelC]
scribeNick: Ryladog
21:08:58 [Ryladog]
JW: I want to not Andy's contribution on Use Cases
21:09:21 [Ryladog]
JS: Michael should we delve in into the mechanical issues of Use Cases
21:09:35 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:09:38 [Zakim]
+[Apple]
21:09:46 [Ryladog]
MC: I had set upa seprerate wiki page...but we will need to merge those
21:09:48 [jcraig]
Zakim, Apple has jcraig
21:09:48 [Zakim]
+jcraig; got it
21:09:59 [Ryladog]
AH: I can add them
21:10:09 [jcraig]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
21:10:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, Andy_Heath, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jason_White, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, hober, [Apple]
21:10:11 [Zakim]
[Apple] has jcraig
21:10:11 [Zakim]
janina has Janina_Sajka
21:10:11 [Ryladog]
MC: You can worry about formatting later
21:10:54 [jcraig]
Zakim, janina is Janina_Sajka
21:10:54 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
21:10:57 [Ryladog]
MC: There is a larfe section for Scenarion Use Cases, and a sperate for requirments
21:11:32 [Ryladog]
AH: I thought there was some kind of automated formatting of that
21:11:36 [Ryladog]
MC: I wish
21:11:44 [Ryladog]
AH: Tell me wherer to put it
21:11:50 [MichaelC]
-> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/User_Context/Requirements User Context Requirements
21:12:32 [Ryladog]
AH: OK I wil do it manually. I will look at whether that will work
21:12:45 [Ryladog]
MC: Wikis have constartints
21:12:58 [Ryladog]
JS: WElcome James
21:13:02 [janina]
zakim, next item
21:13:02 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Calendar Review and Updates Through January 2014" taken up [from janina]
21:13:37 [Ryladog]
JS: Timelines and Calendaring - I want to make some suggestions
21:14:01 [Ryladog]
JS: On the 30th Europe will have left - Andy you will be at a hour earlier
21:14:58 [Ryladog]
JS: It is 5pm EASTERN Standard time....
21:15:32 [Ryladog]
JS: Looking at Nov and Dec
21:16:13 [Ryladog]
JS: 30th , then for the 13th meeting - half of us will be in Shenzshen = - we will not want to meet on the 13th
21:17:36 [Ryladog]
JS: So then meet on the 20th, I suggest because we will have plenty to report on. And then go every two week from there. 5th of Dec and then the 12th
21:17:58 [Ryladog]
JS: Our afternoon calls will be reasonable enough for Andy
21:18:20 [Ryladog]
JS: I will have a schedule for our meeting by the 30th
21:18:22 [janina]
zakim, next item
21:18:22 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013" taken up [from janina]
21:18:38 [MichaelC]
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20131113&p1=136&p2=1232
21:19:10 [Ryladog]
JS: Several are palnning to be there and will talk about on User REquirements
21:19:56 [Ryladog]
JS: There will be buses from HongKong Shenzen
21:20:27 [MichaelC]
-> http://www.w3.org/wiki/MeetingTaxis TPAC travel scheduling wiki
21:20:45 [Ryladog]
MC: You should let W3C know that you are interested - they need enough folks before they will actually get the buses
21:21:29 [Ryladog]
JS: Jason does not want to travel from HongKong to Shenzshen alone, can you help with that Michael
21:21:46 [Ryladog]
JW: I will arrive on Sunday morning
21:21:59 [Ryladog]
JS: We have time still
21:22:13 [Ryladog]
JW: I am waiting for h visa application to go through
21:22:55 [Ryladog]
JS: Noting that there are quite few WebApps people will be there - shoudl we try to get wider participation at TPAC
21:23:24 [Ryladog]
JC: I think there will be a conference line for both - and they are meeting on different days
21:23:58 [Ryladog]
JC: Let us set up something for tTHursday then - I am planning on basically working from hoe to be available for as many conference times as possible
21:24:15 [Ryladog]
JW: On the Wed are there events ?
21:24:41 [Ryladog]
JS: Most of Wed is not pres-scheduled - mwe would want to do something
21:25:43 [Ryladog]
JS: We will be participating in Lightening Talks - we could suggest one for our group to interest the Web Apps and other folks
21:26:02 [janina]
zakim, next item
21:26:02 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Editor's Report" taken up [from janina]
21:27:12 [Ryladog]
JS: Beefing up examples to be a little less accessibility geto-ized - W3C WAI agrees with that - we will have planty to tweek - and correct before TPAC
21:27:31 [Ryladog]
JC: I have been on vacationand sick since we last met - so not lot was done
21:28:11 [Ryladog]
JC: Media Queies typr proposal - start off easy with proposing High Contrast type mode wotk with MS and OS 10 - for media query
21:28:14 [andy]
q+
21:28:26 [Ryladog]
LC: One is not specific to accessibili
21:29:05 [Ryladog]
JC: We will do one off proposals so groups dont get put off and will help seperate and control issues
21:29:11 [janina]
q?
21:29:13 [Ryladog]
AH: thi sis a good idea
21:29:21 [janina]
ack a
21:29:44 [Ryladog]
AH: Micheal suggested we just keep a record of what is where in one list - that we see
21:30:02 [Ryladog]
AH: We will keep our stuff togther with pointers
21:30:43 [Ryladog]
JC: As a point of order do we - I think I sent the fornatted proposal to the IndieUi list sp I can send it to the CSS Working Group
21:30:50 [Ryladog]
JW: It does ring a bell
21:31:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
21:31:23 [Ryladog]
JC: I sent the Original so long ago - so I will repsond to the list with an update and then forward on to CCS WG
21:31:38 [Ryladog]
RS: What ever happened to black on white issues
21:32:00 [Ryladog]
JC: They proposed a vebdor prefoxed version
21:32:23 [Ryladog]
JC: we talked about an extended version - their vendor specific and one open
21:32:48 [Ryladog]
JC: I specifically included how MS Hogh Contrast mode would fit into the synrax
21:33:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]
s/Hogh/High/
21:33:16 [Ryladog]
JC: It looks like the Sept 27th I sent
21:33:23 [Ryladog]
thanks Rich
21:33:57 [Ryladog]
JC: having trouble finding IndieUI archive...
21:34:19 [jcraig]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Sep/0007.html
21:34:51 [Zakim]
-Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:34:57 [Ryladog]
JC: that is the email that was an update to Cynthia covers both MS High Contrast modes and easy switchers
21:35:30 [Ryladog]
JS: while we wait for Rich to come back - we will look at your email
21:35:51 [Ryladog]
JC: I will send out a new one today that will be formatted for the W3C CSS Working Group
21:36:18 [Ryladog]
MC: What ypu are going to send is for starting the converrsation?
21:36:48 [Ryladog]
JC: My plan is to send just one of them for the display colors inverted - here is the first one
21:37:05 [Ryladog]
JC: So the second one would be the High Contrast Mode
21:37:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
calling back in
21:37:37 [Ryladog]
MC: So we want to record/record as they build up? Can we start the tracking now?
21:38:28 [Ryladog]
JC: whoever is managing medies queries can be applicable to CSS - whatever group ,manages the media querie for x
21:38:45 [Ryladog]
JS: we want to keep our requirments as our requirements
21:38:45 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:39:23 [Ryladog]
MC: I want to look our requirmenets when it goes off to these other entties and they keep it in their specs that wwe see is useful
21:39:37 [Ryladog]
JC: I cannot deternine if they actually have tracker
21:39:51 [Ryladog]
MC: They probably have one, but I am not sure what it is
21:40:36 [Ryladog]
JS: Well we will need to figure that out and that we will be monitoring (insert more PC language here) what is done with each requirment
21:40:47 [Ryladog]
JS: James I kope you feel better soon
21:41:04 [Ryladog]
JS: We will continue on the 30th
21:41:10 [Ryladog]
MC: Our Reqquirments
21:41:28 [Ryladog]
MC: Events Requirments - two views
21:41:33 [MichaelC]
-> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements Events Requirements
21:41:51 [Ryladog]
MC: What we have is Use Cases and SCenarios followed by Requirements
21:42:24 [Ryladog]
MC: So the first main question to ak is the list of Use Cases and Scenarios complete? Have we discribed thm all
21:42:52 [Ryladog]
MC: The seoncdd for each use case/scenaion are the requirments that it points to complete and documented?
21:43:06 [Ryladog]
MC: Then the reverse path -
21:43:25 [Ryladog]
MC: Look at the requirments and are they justifoed with an eixting Use Case
21:43:38 [Ryladog]
MC: those are the two veiws we need to take on these
21:43:45 [Ryladog]
MC: we only have 15 minutes
21:44:01 [Ryladog]
MC: A few months ago I combined these
21:44:07 [Ryladog]
MC: 1t Map
21:44:19 [Ryladog]
MC: 2nd Pop-up
21:44:36 [Ryladog]
MC: 3rd expand./coolaps
21:44:43 [Ryladog]
MC: 4th
21:44:52 [Ryladog]
5th is moving Focus around
21:45:06 [Ryladog]
MC: 6th Media Player Commands
21:45:11 [Ryladog]
MC: volumn
21:45:20 [Ryladog]
MC: Zoom seprate from Map
21:45:27 [Ryladog]
MC: Pan seperate from Map
21:45:37 [Ryladog]
MC: moving Point of Regard
21:45:48 [Ryladog]
MC: Continiuous and discontinuous
21:45:57 [Ryladog]
MC: Hiding and showing txt
21:46:02 [Ryladog]
MC: Neerness
21:46:18 [Ryladog]
MC: or gide additional text with out selection
21:46:29 [Ryladog]
MC: Summary details expanding
21:46:50 [Ryladog]
JC: So it is possible that it is going to be covered by expand /collapse
21:46:59 [Ryladog]
JW: It is a long list
21:47:07 [Ryladog]
MC: It is a long list
21:47:39 [Ryladog]
MC: towards the bottom there is not much descriptinf ro them
21:47:57 [Ryladog]
JS: We are not assuming that hese are all for 1.0 right
21:48:13 [Ryladog]
MC: Maybe we should agree hat that is what we are doing as well
21:48:26 [Ryladog]
MC: Almost all of them point to one requirements
21:49:04 [Ryladog]
MC: I cannot imagine that those are the only requirements couple of requirments
21:49:34 [Ryladog]
JW: I suppose one approach would be to ask people to review and have them suggest items are for 1.0 or a later version
21:49:47 [Ryladog]
JW: Collect Issues in other wrds
21:50:08 [Ryladog]
MC: Which of these might not be part of 1.0 just off hte top
21:50:41 [Ryladog]
JC: One that is outside the scope of 1 - is moving abojects /resizing object ona canvas as they are not that cpmmon
21:50:53 [Ryladog]
MC: Does tthat include th edrag and drop?
21:50:58 [Ryladog]
JC: No.
21:51:29 [Ryladog]
JC: Select something and perform some actipn on it - that is common enough i thinkw e should keep that
21:52:12 [Ryladog]
JC: We can already identify that we can split it into two diffeent different requirments
21:52:50 [Ryladog]
JC: Drag ad Drop - mark request - and then operate on marked item
21:53:23 [Ryladog]
MC: Ok you might find yourself needing to clarify the drag and drop scenarions and might need some clean up
21:53:48 [Ryladog]
MC: and there ther is a Move UI Object - mthose will need eith r combination or seperation
21:54:00 [Ryladog]
MC: Some were for pannoing and zooming
21:54:19 [Ryladog]
JC: that is on the fence - one is already in there for zooming on a map
21:55:05 [Ryladog]
JC: pan request and zoom request _ I wouldn't be broken up if we do have to move to 2.0
21:55:28 [Ryladog]
JC: Manipulation Request covers acombination or individual ones
21:55:40 [Ryladog]
MC: sound lie 1.0 scope
21:55:51 [Ryladog]
MC: Pop-up is that in 1.0mscope
21:56:16 [Ryladog]
JC: It depends on what people mean by Pop-Up MC:
21:56:39 [janina]
?
21:56:42 [janina]
q?
21:56:48 [Ryladog]
MC: Pop-up menu is a select expand ad collpase - but if it is contexual there is a secondary action
21:57:16 [Ryladog]
JC: Promary action it happens to shpw a dialog - these threee different scenarions
21:57:46 [Ryladog]
RS: the pop-up comes from the OS lie functions. I like James simplified version of it
21:58:01 [Ryladog]
MC: Maaybe the dialog component neeed to nbe moved to another
21:58:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]
2 minutes
21:58:32 [Ryladog]
JC: We need to clarify the vocabularies we use
21:58:57 [Ryladog]
MC: Open or collapse tree view
21:59:15 [Ryladog]
JC: that is covered by exoand /collapse which is 1.0
21:59:26 [richardschwerdtfeger]
s/exoand/expand/
21:59:31 [Ryladog]
MCL next ?? include links and buttons
21:59:52 [Ryladog]
JW: click events
22:00:14 [Ryladog]
JC: you want a UI independent activation event
22:00:34 [Ryladog]
JC: a general tap event would not unlock it
22:00:56 [Ryladog]
JC: AT would/could activate it
22:01:12 [Ryladog]
JW: Mac Os would be express event
22:01:20 [Ryladog]
JS; good stopping point
22:02:20 [jcraig]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
22:02:21 [Ryladog]
MC: this discussion has helped me figure out some things we need to do - maybe we should continue
22:02:54 [Ryladog]
JC: we have an issue 3
22:02:55 [MichaelC]
issue-3?
22:02:55 [trackbot]
issue-3 -- SecondaryAction (aka "Context Menu") -- open
22:02:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/issues/3
22:02:57 [MichaelC]
action-53?
22:02:57 [trackbot]
action-53 -- James Craig to Add ~"activate request" event to augment default action trigger when "click" handlers are inappropriate. -- due 2013-05-10 -- OPEN
22:02:57 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/53
22:03:02 [Ryladog]
JC: action 53
22:03:19 [jcraig]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/53
22:03:29 [Ryladog]
JC: there is anote that authors should use click inmost scenarios
22:03:32 [jcraig]
ISSUE-3 and ACTION-53
22:03:43 [Zakim]
-hober
22:03:46 [Ryladog]
JW: Is it possible to solve both with the same UI method
22:03:53 [Ryladog]
JC: No I think they are different
22:04:11 [Ryladog]
JW: if you had one for an action...
22:04:22 [Ryladog]
JW: you would solve then all
22:04:48 [Ryladog]
JW: is it a get
22:05:05 [Ryladog]
JC: this coul ccause a performance hot on the AT
22:05:24 [Ryladog]
JC: the browswer diesnt have to do anything
22:05:44 [Ryladog]
JS: I thnk we want tto protect the declarative approach for authors
22:05:54 [Ryladog]
RS: is this going to confuse authors
22:06:06 [Ryladog]
JS: lts think about this some
22:06:54 [Ryladog]
AH: We are going to have to do some radical surgery to the User Context Requirments
22:07:08 [Ryladog]
AH: Does anyone mind if I do that?
22:07:30 [Ryladog]
MC: yes we were bascially it is time to go to the next step
22:07:50 [Ryladog]
JW: I just could supply the use case as I didnt know them well enough yet
22:08:04 [Ryladog]
JS: this is a useful exersoze, I think this is helpful all around
22:08:22 [Zakim]
-[Apple]
22:08:24 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:08:26 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
22:08:26 [Zakim]
-Janina_Sajka
22:08:29 [Zakim]
-Jason_White
22:08:33 [Zakim]
-Andy_Heath
22:08:36 [Zakim]
-Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:08:37 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:08:37 [Zakim]
Attendees were Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Andy_Heath, Jason_White, hober, jcraig
22:08:40 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:08:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
22:10:41 [MichaelC]
s|MC: Our Reqquirments|topic: Events Requirements Walkthrough http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements|
22:10:51 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Oct/0007.html
22:11:05 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:11:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
22:11:29 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, bye
22:11:29 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items