13:57:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pf
13:57:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/14-pf-irc
13:57:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
13:57:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pf
13:57:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
13:57:59 <Zakim> "WAI_PF" matches WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM, and WAI_PFWG(HTML A11Y)9:00AM, trackbot
13:58:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
13:58:00 <trackbot> Date: 14 October 2013
13:58:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: make log public
13:58:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent: make log public
13:58:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
13:58:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
13:59:59 <MichaelC> zakim, this is aria
13:59:59 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM
14:01:01 <Zakim> +??P24
14:01:43 <janina> zakim, ??P24 is me
14:01:43 <Zakim> +janina; got it
14:02:03 <MichaelC> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
14:02:18 <Zakim> +??P2
14:02:50 <MichaelC> zakim, ipcaller is Rich_Schwerdtfeger
14:02:50 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger; got it
14:04:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Oct/0015.html
14:04:12 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Oct/0015.html
14:04:40 <MichaelC> regrets: Jon_Gunderson
14:07:18 <janina> scribe: janina
14:07:34 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
14:07:34 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:07:46 <janina> topic: UAIG
14:08:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=2
14:09:03 <janina> rich: Saw event sequencing problems with tests 85, 86 & 87
14:09:19 <janina> rich: Suggest we move these to "should"
14:09:42 <janina> michael: Were these tests where James wanted Safari excluded?
14:10:01 <janina> rich: State changes follows selection change on these
14:10:14 <janina> s/changes/change/
14:11:42 <janina> rich: And on 69 we have owns of an owns, etc
14:11:50 <janina> rich: Not real world
14:12:41 <janina> rich: 69 & 71
14:12:56 <janina> rich: 70 passes
14:15:36 <janina> michael: 71 seems contrived; 69 is similar conceptual to another
14:18:03 <janina> michael: Does seem to reflect how we expected ARIA-Owns to work
14:19:12 <janina> michael: A strange abstraction ...
14:19:51 <janina> michael: So, we're testing pos and set ...
14:20:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> If all items in a set are present in the document structure, it is not necessary to set this attribute, as the user agent can automatically calculate the set size and position for each item. However, if only a portion of the set is present in the document structure at a given moment, this property is needed to provide an explicit indication of an element's position.
14:20:42 <MichaelC> s/pos and set/posinset/
14:22:39 <janina> michael: So, if in doc only via ARIA-Owns, its not part of the structure?
14:22:41 <janina> rich: yes
14:27:10 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
14:27:50 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/2013/10/08-aapi-minutes#item01
14:30:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> EVENT_OBJECT_STATECHANGE on newly focused item, but arrange events so state change does not occur on focused item, to avoid extra selection change announcements
14:30:44 <janina> rich: Instead, say:
14:30:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> EVENT_OBJECT_STATECHANGE on newly focused item. User agents SHOULD arrange events so state change does not occur on focused item, to avoid extra selection change announcements
14:31:44 <janina> rich: Above msaa, here's at-spi
14:31:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> ATK/ATSPI currently:
14:31:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> object::selection_changed but arrange events so state change does not occur on focused item, to avoid extra selection change announcement
14:32:06 <janina> rich: could be
14:32:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> object::selection_changed. User agents SHOULD arrange events so state change does not occur on focused item, to avoid extra selection change announcement
14:33:06 <janina> michael: I'm OK
14:34:00 <MichaelC> action: clown to Add RFC2119 SHOULD statements to UAIG #mapping_events_selection regard event arrangement
14:34:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1273 - Add rfc2119 should statements to uaig #mapping_events_selection regard event arrangement [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2013-10-21].
14:34:31 <MichaelC> action-1273: For example, ¨EVENT_OBJECT_STATECHANGE on newly focused item, but arrange events so state change does not occur on focused item, to avoid extra selection change announcements¨ becomes ¨EVENT_OBJECT_STATECHANGE on newly focused item. User agents SHOULD arrange events so state change does not occur on focused item, to avoid extra selection change announcements¨
14:34:31 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1273 Add rfc2119 should statements to uaig #mapping_events_selection regard event arrangement.
14:35:11 <MichaelC> action-1273: For example, ¨object::selection_changed but arrange events so state change does not occur on focused item, to avoid extra selection change announcement¨ becomes ¨object::selection_changed. User agents SHOULD arrange events so state change does not occur on focused item, to avoid extra selection change announcement¨
14:35:11 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1273 Add rfc2119 should statements to uaig #mapping_events_selection regard event arrangement.
14:35:41 <MichaelC> action-1273: note that the wording is confusing because conditions against the action are explained after the action rather than before
14:35:41 <trackbot> Error adding a comment to: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
14:35:57 <MichaelC> action-1273: note that the wording is confusing because conditions against the action are explained after the action rather than before
14:35:57 <trackbot> Error adding a comment to: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
14:36:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTION then EVENT_OBJECT_STATECHANGE on newly focused item.
14:36:11 <MichaelC> action-1273: note that the wording is confusing because conditions against the action are explained after the action rather than before
14:36:11 <trackbot> Error adding a comment to: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
14:36:56 <MichaelC> action-1273: note that the wording is confusing because conditions against the action are explained after the action rather than before
14:36:56 <trackbot> Error adding a comment to: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
14:38:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> object::selection_changed then object:state-changed
14:39:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Accessibility/AT-APIs/AT-SPI/Events
14:39:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> object:selection-changed
14:40:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> object:selection-changed then object:state-changed
14:40:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/atspi/adoc/atspi-events.html
14:41:53 <MichaelC> action-1273: note that the wording is confusing because conditions against the action are explained after the action rather than before
14:41:53 <trackbot> Error adding a comment to: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
14:45:31 <janina> topic: incomplete test cases
14:45:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=2
14:47:07 <janina> michael: still 19 cases without test files
14:47:28 <janina> michael: jg was to fill in additional testable statements
14:47:41 <janina> michael: jg's unable to do soon, i looked at these friday
14:47:48 <janina> michael: see fewer gaps than i thought
14:48:23 <janina> michael Suggest we walk this through UAIG call Tuesday
14:49:58 <janina> michael: 40 & 41 are ones I didn't know what to do re test files
14:50:50 <janina> rich: just to tab-index = 0, -1, etc
14:55:12 <janina> michael: test case creation we should move to uaig call group ...
14:55:20 <janina> michael: starting email to clown
15:02:12 <MichaelC> Testable statements still needed for UAIG: look for @@ in http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA/Tests/Testable_Statements#User_Agent_Implementation_Guide_Testable_Statements
15:03:54 <MichaelC> some of the @@ are information we need to fill in based on work done in UAIG since these were written
15:04:23 <MichaelC> some are cross references to existing tests that just need to be linked
15:05:05 <MichaelC> MC to change those to ## so they´re not confused with the ones that need to be examined
15:14:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:14:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/14-pf-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
15:15:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, bye
15:15:50 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were janina, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:15:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pf
15:15:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:15:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/14-pf-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
15:49:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #pf