21:00:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
21:00:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/02-indie-ui-irc
21:00:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
21:00:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
21:00:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
21:00:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM already started
21:00:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
21:00:09 <trackbot> Date: 02 October 2013
21:00:27 <Zakim> + +1.212.261.aaaa
21:00:28 <Zakim> - +1.212.261.aaaa
21:00:28 <Zakim> + +1.212.261.aaaa
21:00:52 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
21:00:52 <Zakim> agenda cleared
21:00:57 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
21:00:57 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
21:00:57 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
21:00:57 <janina> agenda+ TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013
21:00:57 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Report
21:01:00 <janina> agenda+ Events Requirements Update http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
21:01:03 <janina> agenda+ Events Testing Update
21:01:05 <janina> agenda+ User Context Update; FPWD Criteria Discussion
21:01:08 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
21:01:11 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
21:01:14 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 2 October at 21:00Z)
21:01:16 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
21:01:21 <Zakim> +??P5
21:01:26 <jasonjgw> jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
21:01:30 <Zakim> +??P4
21:01:59 <andy> andy has joined #indie-ui
21:02:05 <rich_simpson> rich_simpson has joined #indie-ui
21:02:26 <janina>  zakim, who's on the phone?
21:02:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, +1.212.261.aaaa, ??P5, ??P4
21:03:04 <andy> zakim, ??P0
21:03:04 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P0', andy
21:03:29 <andy> zakim, ??P0 is me
21:03:29 <Zakim> +andy; got it
21:03:39 <Zakim> +??P8
21:03:41 <Zakim> -??P8
21:03:58 <Zakim> +??P8
21:04:10 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P5 is Jason_White
21:04:10 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
21:04:13 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
21:04:13 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
21:04:20 <jasonjgw> zakim, ??p4 is me
21:04:20 <Zakim> I already had ??P4 as Janina_Sajka, jasonjgw
21:04:29 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Rich_Simpson
21:04:29 <Zakim> +Rich_Simpson; got it
21:06:16 <jasonjgw> zakim, item 1
21:06:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'item 1', jasonjgw
21:06:29 <jasonjgw> zakim, take up item 1
21:06:29 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:07:43 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that times begin to shift, starting next week due to daylight saving changes in various countries. Be mindful of the time changes.
21:08:43 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:08:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013" taken up [from janina]
21:09:34 <jasonjgw> Janina: at least one night is fully booked at the hotel; nearby hotels are available however. Those who haven't booked a room should do so promptly.
21:10:52 <jasonjgw> Janina: visa requirements have changed in the last few months; take note.
21:12:13 <jasonjgw> Janina: a draft agenda should be posted before the next meeting, and will focus on IndieUI Events as it moves toward Last Call. Requirements for User Contexts are also to be considered.
21:13:24 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that phone participation is possible, but the time difference could be problematic for some participants.
21:15:00 <jasonjgw> Further, a conference phone is expected to be available.
21:15:16 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:15:16 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Editor's Report" taken up [from janina]
21:16:02 <andy> Editor not here so Jason doing a pull on the reposiroty
21:16:08 <andy> not updates
21:16:18 <andy> s/not/no/
21:16:34 <jasonjgw> Jason updates his checkout of the Mercurial repository and notes that there have been no changes since 22 August.
21:16:56 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that James has been occupied with other responsibilities.
21:17:12 <andy> s/reposiroty/repository/g
21:18:21 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:18:21 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Events Requirements Update http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements" taken up [from janina]
21:19:25 <jasonjgw> Michael: no updates to action items.
21:20:47 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that we need to publish requirements (in some form) before Last Call.
21:23:05 <jasonjgw> Michael ascertains that he has an open action to propose a structure for the requirements, but no actions affecting their content.
21:24:18 <jasonjgw> Action to all participants: read events requirements prior to the next meeting, in which they'll be reviewed in detail.
21:24:18 <trackbot> Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/users>.
21:25:13 <MichaelC> action-57 due 8 November
21:25:13 <trackbot> Set action-57 Consider helpfocusrequest and mainfocusrequest in addition to toolbarfocusrequest and palettefocusrequest due date to 2013-11-08.
21:25:31 <MichaelC> action-67 due 8 November
21:25:31 <trackbot> Set action-67 Make a proposal for formalizing indieui requirements due date to 2013-11-08.
21:25:31 <jasonjgw> It is suggested that the requirements should be published a month before Last Call (for Events). Suggested dates: early December and January respectively.
21:25:40 <MichaelC> action-57 due 27 June
21:25:40 <trackbot> Set action-57 Consider helpfocusrequest and mainfocusrequest in addition to toolbarfocusrequest and palettefocusrequest due date to 2013-06-27.
21:25:55 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:25:55 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Events Testing Update" taken up [from janina]
21:27:29 <jasonjgw> Testing is a topic for the TPAC meeting agenda, and aside from any preliminary work, much of the discussion will take place there regarding next steps.
21:27:43 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:27:43 <Zakim> agendum 6. "User Context Update; FPWD Criteria Discussion" taken up [from janina]
21:29:05 <jasonjgw> Janina notes Jason's posts to the list concerning requirements.
21:29:11 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/mid/20131002082353.GA14514@jdc.jasonjgw.net
21:29:21 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/mid/6BCD4AFE-AB3C-45E5-8B95-7059AC826E4E@apple.com
21:30:11 <andy> Jason taking the group through his approach
21:30:46 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:32:19 <andy> questions on criteria for inclusion of a preference in the spec
21:32:59 <Zakim> +[Apple]
21:33:16 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple has jcraig
21:33:16 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
21:34:14 <andy> questions are in the URI for Jason's email a few liens back
21:34:23 <andy> s/liens/lines/
21:35:07 <jcraig> q+
21:35:13 <jasonjgw> Janina asks whether this is a good set of questions. Is there anything missing?
21:35:15 <andy> IS it a useful set of questions ?
21:35:36 <jasonjgw> Michael considers it's a good set of questions but his response to item 1 would result in the addition of questions to the list.
21:35:45 <andy> Michael - may need additional questions to narrow down for 1.0
21:35:58 <jcraig> Zakim, who is on the call?
21:35:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see andy, Rich_Simpson, Jason_White, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, [Apple]
21:36:00 <Zakim> [Apple] has jcraig
21:36:44 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/mid/20130918233138.GA8059@jdc.jasonjgw.net
21:37:29 <MichaelC> q+ to speak to question 1
21:37:36 <andy> Jason's earlier post (see URI) is the general criteria
21:37:57 <andy> the questions recently posted are just about getting preferences in and out
21:38:12 <jcraig> q?
21:38:26 <janina> q?
21:38:28 <jcraig> ack me
21:38:46 <andy> will process the most recent email then return to the general post
21:39:57 <andy> James: we are not getting feedback from external groups because we are no longer associated with another group and may need to be associated with web-apps or css
21:40:18 <andy> james some of the preferences may be better dealt with as media queries
21:41:18 <jasonjgw> James would like to encourage other associated working groups to work jointly with us in this area. He notes the relevance, for example, of CSS media queries. Many of the items could be moved to Media Queries, leaving the role of User Contexts as that of providing an API and a means of access control. If any of this were to happen, it would transform the scope of User Context discussions.
21:41:18 <andy> james: doing it that way we can separate the prefs that have privacy implications from ones that dont
21:41:28 <MichaelC> q+ to speak about group structure
21:42:38 <jasonjgw> He notes that there is currently a media query for monochrome that can reflect operating system preferences.
21:43:12 <andy> james: many of the prefs could map to media queries
21:43:55 <andy> michael: overlap between what we might define and what those groups (web apps and media queires) might define
21:44:16 <jasonjgw> Michael acknowledges potential overlap with Media Queries, and also the work of the Web Applications wg. We should collaborate; this need not require a formally constituted joint taskforce with those groups.
21:44:48 <andy> q+
21:44:56 <jasonjgw> Janina notes the importance of shared ownership of the resulting technology.
21:45:12 <jasonjgw> Michael concurs.
21:45:23 <MichaelC> q- later
21:45:38 <MichaelC> ack a
21:46:19 <jasonjgw> Andy emphasizes the importance of interoperability with other work in the needs/preferences area.
21:46:28 <andy> q+
21:46:57 <jasonjgw> Janina indicates that the features of 1.0 can be expected to be constrained, but implementation of them opens the way to a very robust 2.0 version.
21:47:38 <MichaelC> ack a
21:48:04 <jasonjgw> Andy is concerned about interoperability with what search engines are starting to provide for resource discovery.
21:49:06 <jasonjgw> He again emphasizes the importance of interoperability among the various efforts in this area.
21:49:24 <jasonjgw> Janina notes the importance of this issue.
21:49:32 <janina> q?
21:50:50 <jasonjgw> Michael notes that CSS and Web Applications are meeting at TPAC, hence collaboration could be discussed at the meeting.
21:51:08 <jasonjgw> James proposes to start the discussion (e.g., with CSS) before TPAC.
21:51:47 <jasonjgw> He proposes to start discussing media query proposals individually.
21:53:19 <jasonjgw> Michael notes that if some of the needs/preferences are integrated into different APIs/CSS features, we'll need to track them all carefully.
21:54:25 <andy> q+
21:55:13 <jasonjgw> Jason's question 1: James would answer yes, because we need two interoperable implementations and it would be a mistake to enter CR before these implementations are in place.
21:55:17 <MichaelC> ack me
21:55:17 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to speak to question 1 and to speak about group structure
21:55:19 <andy> q-
21:55:52 <jasonjgw> Michael generally agrees, while noting that the implementations can be completed at the CR stage; features can be declared as at risk.
21:55:58 <janina> q?
21:56:40 <jasonjgw> There is a risk (in the process) that a spec would need to be returned to Last Call.
21:57:15 <jasonjgw> Janina: if there is assurance of implementation by Last Call then that may/should? be sufficient.
21:57:58 <janina> q?
21:58:57 <jasonjgw> Question 2: it seems we should answer it similarly to question 1.
21:59:02 <janina> q?
22:00:48 <jasonjgw> Michael notes the need for two implementations and that consensus (as to what user agents are doing by way of implementation) is also very relevant.
22:01:42 <jasonjgw> James suggests that adding features to Media Queries (which are already implemented by UAs) is a convenient and effective path to interoperable implementations.
22:02:33 <jasonjgw> Michael notes that we can have a comprehensive set of requirements, some of which can be met by external specs (provides these are tracked appropriately).
22:04:30 <jasonjgw> zakim, list participants
22:04:30 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.212.261.aaaa, andy, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Janina_Sajka, Rich_Simpson, jcraig
22:04:46 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, make minutes
22:04:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/02-indie-ui-minutes.html jasonjgw
22:05:28 <Zakim> -[Apple]
22:05:29 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:05:29 <Zakim> -Rich_Simpson
22:05:31 <Zakim> -andy
22:05:33 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
22:06:30 <Zakim> -Jason_White
22:06:32 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:06:32 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.212.261.aaaa, andy, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Janina_Sajka, Rich_Simpson, jcraig
22:08:05 <jcraig> jcraig has left #indie-ui