14:53:59 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:53:59 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-irc
14:54:23 agenda+ Identify Scribe
14:54:51 agenda+ canvas issues Path objects and hit regions - concerns in regards to lack of implementations
14:55:30 paulc has joined #html-a11y
14:56:01 agenda+ Longdesc update
14:56:15 agenda+ Longdesc LC Comments: Process and Responses
14:56:36 zakim, what is the meeting code?
14:56:37 I don't understand your question, paulc.
14:56:42 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media
14:56:46 zakim, what is the code?
14:56:46 sorry, paulc, I don't know what conference this is
14:56:51 agenda+ Potential TF Participation at TPAC 2013?
14:56:55 trackbot, start meeting
14:56:57 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:58 SteveF has joined #html-a11y
14:56:59 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:56:59 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 57 minutes ago
14:57:00 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:57:00 Date: 19 September 2013
14:57:02 agenda+ HTML 5.1 Objectives -- Open Discussion
14:57:12 agenda+ Other Business
14:57:18 zakim, save agenda
14:57:24 ok, LJWatson, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-agenda.rdf
14:57:26 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:57:27 +[Microsoft]
14:57:27 aardrian has joined #html-a11y
14:57:33 rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:57:45 Meeting: HTML A11y TF telecon
14:57:45 Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:57:46 On the phone I see [Microsoft]
14:57:52 Chair: Steve Faulkner
14:57:54 zakim, [Microosft] is me
14:57:54 sorry, paulc, I do not recognize a party named '[Microosft]'
14:57:55 +[IPcaller]
14:57:59 rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
14:58:03 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
14:58:03 +paulc; got it
14:58:04 + +1.716.842.aaaa
14:58:18 +[IPcaller.a]
14:58:21 zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:58:21 +SteveF; got it
14:58:43 cabanier has joined #html-a11y
14:59:07 zakim, 1.716.842.aaaa is me
14:59:07 sorry, aardrian, I do not recognize a party named '1.716.842.aaaa'
14:59:41 zakim, +1.716.842.aaaa is me
14:59:41 +aardrian; got it
14:59:43 zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
14:59:43 +LJWatson; got it
15:00:09 +MarkS
15:00:17 +[IPcaller]
15:00:32 scribe: Léonie Watson
15:00:39 scribenick LJWatson
15:00:45 zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:00:45 +cabanier; got it
15:00:51 zakim, take up item 1
15:00:51 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from LJWatson]
15:00:58 zakim, close item 1
15:00:58 agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
15:00:59 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:00:59 2. canvas issues Path objects and hit regions - concerns in regards to lack of implementations [from LJWatson]
15:01:10 zakim,nxt item
15:01:10 I don't understand 'nxt item', LJWatson
15:01:18 zakim, next item
15:01:18 agendum 2. "canvas issues Path objects and hit regions - concerns in regards to lack of implementations" taken up [from LJWatson]
15:01:25 +Markku
15:01:41 +??P39
15:01:42 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:02:55 +Judy
15:03:20 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:03:20 On the phone I see paulc, SteveF, aardrian, LJWatson, MarkS, cabanier, Markku, ??P39, Judy
15:03:34 zakim, ??P39 is me
15:03:34 +janina; got it
15:04:26 agenda?
15:04:29 agenda+ Using ARIA in HTML heartbeat
15:04:41 mhakkinen has joined #html-a11y
15:05:48 zakim, close item 2
15:05:48 agendum 2, canvas issues Path objects and hit regions - concerns in regards to lack of implementations, closed
15:05:50 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:05:50 3. Longdesc update [from LJWatson]
15:05:56 zakim, next item
15:05:56 agendum 3. "Longdesc update" taken up [from LJWatson]
15:06:32 CMN: LCis closed.
15:06:38 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:06:48 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Longdesc-comments comments received and some proposed responses
15:06:53 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:07:13 CMN: We have comments. The above link tracks bugs and responses.
15:07:51 CMN: My expectation is we can discuss on this call. Each will need approval by the WG, so today is a good time to provide comments.
15:08:23 CMN: Expect to work on this today. Proposals should be wrapped up for CFC by tomorrow night.
15:08:44 rrsagent, make minutes
15:08:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:09:06 CMN: Would like CFC to be underway before next week's TF meeting.
15:09:33 JS: Looking to dispose of these by first week in October?
15:09:45 CMN: Yes, as soon as we reasonably can.
15:10:34 CMN: We'll then need to send responses back to commenters. We could end up in a cycle if commenters are still not satisfied, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.
15:11:08 MS: No further progress on testing.
15:11:45 CMN: If anyone is willing to stay on IRC after the meeting to look at testing that would be helpful.
15:12:02 JS: RC2119 requirements are satisfied?
15:12:52 CMN: We've only run tests on two implementations, so we don't have two distinct implementations yet. We need more test results.
15:13:06 AR: I've committed to NVDA testing.
15:13:18 CMN: Help after this call to hammer through some testing would be good.
15:13:34 -> https://github.com/chaals/longdesc-tests links to tests
15:13:34 I'll hang out after call on IRC. I have maybe a half hour.
15:13:45 rrsagent, make minutes
15:13:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:14:11 JB: Question about a bug from last March and plan 2014.
15:14:50 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21341
15:14:59 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Sep/0044.html &
15:15:00 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Sep/0045.html
15:15:10 JB: The bug caused somedebtate about obsoleting longdesc. The bug related to the first PWD. Mark clarified this on list today, Robin has replied.
15:15:56 JB: The bug doesn't yet include a link to Mark's clarification. Mark can you take care of that/?
15:16:01 s/no/now
15:16:31 PC: Was mystified by your reference to emails from Mark and Robin. They haven't arrived to my inbox yet.
15:16:54 JB: Went to the public list.
15:17:15 zakim, take up item 2
15:17:15 agendum 2. "canvas issues Path objects and hit regions - concerns in regards to lack of implementations" taken up [from LJWatson]
15:17:16 s/public list/public admin list
15:17:36 rrsagent, make minutes
15:17:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:18:29 RS: Focus rings for custom and system have been implemented by Chrome canary for Mac and Windows.
15:18:44 RS: Also have implementations where you can pass a path to them.
15:19:12 RS: No other browsers have support.
15:19:44 s/rick/rik/
15:21:15 q+
15:21:22 RS: We don't have an implementation of those functions with the path object in Chrome. No browser has implemented the full path object spec.
15:21:26 RC: Agreed.
15:21:43 from Google: "I'm not as sure about drawCustomFocusRing. The spec says "If the user has
15:21:43 requested the use of particular focus rings", but I'm not aware of any
15:21:43 platform API we could use to query that. To the best of my knowledge,
15:21:43 assistive technology that draws its own focus rings, like ZoomText,
15:21:44 normally draws an additional focus ring with extra padding, rather than
15:21:44 replacing the system one."
15:22:00 RS: I sent a note to Frank Olivier at MS, and it has not been implemented in the beta of IE11.
15:22:01 from google: So, what we implemented in Chrome for drawCustomFocusRing is basically just
15:22:01 a function that notifies assistive technology of the bounding rect of the
15:22:01 focused region within the canvas
15:22:02 I presume that the Google implementation is in Blink code base and that Opera (based on Blink) would pick up the same implementation but that would not be a 2nd independent implementation.
15:22:26 RS: We have a defect open, a design spec written, and we're trying to get it prioritised.
15:22:57 RS: WillOpera pick up the focus ring implementations if they're available in Canary?
15:23:19 CMN: If they're Chrome specific, Opera won't get them, if they're Chromium they will.
15:23:28 rrsagent, make minutes
15:23:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:24:10 RS: Also sent a note to James Craig at Apple, for implementation in Webkit.
15:24:33 q+
15:24:46 PC: Canwe characterise this implementation in terms of the spec?
15:24:55 ack paulc
15:24:59 RS: They're in a bit of a blob in the spec.
15:25:15 PC: If you're talking about features at risk, the relevant spec sections need to be identified.
15:25:22 RS: We're talking about two APIs.
15:25:33 JS: Paul is referring to passing CR on the spec.
15:25:52 RS: Haven't identified all sections that relate to path. But the APIs that relate to path are at risk.
15:26:12 MC: No browser has this on by default. We have an experimental implementation at best.
15:26:29 JS: That's not relevant, it just needs to be agreed as implementable.
15:26:50 PC: Non shipping versions must have the feature for at least one month.
15:26:53 Permissive exit criteria: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Aug/0294.html
15:27:07 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:27:12 canvas 2d context editors draft http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/
15:27:18 MC: So we have one extra API. It may be we don't have to drop it.
15:27:27 RS: I don't think it needs to be dropped.
15:27:42 RS: It was just a couple of weeks work on Canary.
15:27:51 rrsagent, make minutes
15:27:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:28:15 Canvas interoperability document: http://dev.w3.org/html5/misc/canvas-implementation.html
15:29:05 PC: This is the interoperability document. It has path object in section 7 as not implemented, and focus rings in sections 12 d, e, and f.
15:29:14 PC: Which of these is there an implementation of?
15:29:36 RS: d and e of section 12. There are other aspects of the spec that relate to path objects not included here though.
15:30:02 PC: Why wasn't that pointed out?
15:30:17 RS: Ddn't realise I had to do that.
15:30:23 JS: So path is not at risk?
15:30:29 RS: Path objects are at risk.
15:30:46 PC: The CR says Path objects.
15:31:06 PC: So all variants that use Path objects are at risk too?
15:31:09 RS: Yes.
15:31:20 PC: Hit regions (section 14) are also at risk?
15:31:31 RS: Yes, thought it had been agreed to move it out to the next version of canvas.
15:31:36 +David_MacDonald
15:31:54 PC: Don't believe there is official agreement on that.
15:32:11 David_ has joined #html-a11y
15:32:38 RS: At the F2F in Lyon I Met with Philipe and Rick, and we discussed moving it to the next version of Canvas. They wanted to consider using something other than Path.
15:32:41 q-
15:32:58 RC: We have to give that more time.
15:33:10 MC: We did discuss this though.
15:33:50 RS: We won't get any implementations. December 2014?
15:34:01 PC: I wouldn't assume a date. Leave that to the chairs.
15:34:08 rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:34:50 PC: Pink indicates no implementation.
15:35:01 12. Drawing paths to the canvasInteroperable
15:35:16 d. drawSystemFocusRing() e. drawCustomFocusRing()
15:35:26 RS: We do have implementations for section 12 D and E.
15:35:52 MC: 12 E is implemented, but it isn't a correct implementation.
15:36:05 MC: It uses a shortcut to draw the focus ring.
15:36:16 I will note as well that we don't have tests for these features.
15:36:37 PC: Red indicates no implementations and no tests.
15:37:04 RS: I sent tests to Mark.
15:37:12 MS: I'll take care of that.
15:37:27 PC: We have no evidence about the status of Path objects?
15:37:33 MC: They're not implemented.
15:38:05 PC: Rich, you're suggesting hit region being removed from the spec, providing it returned (possibly in a change format) in a later version?
15:38:15 RS: Yes.
15:38:49 PC: Would you be ok to doing the same with Path objects?
15:38:53 RS: Yes.
15:39:06 rrsagent, makeminutes
15:39:06 I'm logging. I don't understand 'makeminutes', LJWatson. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:39:14 rrsagent, make minutes
15:39:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:39:26 zakim, next item
15:39:26 agendum 3. "Longdesc update" taken up [from LJWatson]
15:39:30 -cabanier
15:39:33 zakim, close item 3
15:39:33 agendum 3, Longdesc update, closed
15:39:35 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:39:35 4. Longdesc LC Comments: Process and Responses [from LJWatson]
15:39:39 zakim, next item
15:39:39 agendum 4. "Longdesc LC Comments: Process and Responses" taken up [from LJWatson]
15:39:51 zakim, close item 4
15:39:51 agendum 4, Longdesc LC Comments: Process and Responses, closed
15:39:52 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:39:52 5. Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media [from LJWatson]
15:39:57 zakim, next item
15:39:57 agendum 5. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media" taken up [from LJWatson]
15:40:43 LW: no new bugs that require task force to follow. focusing on longdesc testing.
15:41:34 SF: API mapping. We've been looking at the scope of the document.
15:42:11 -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:42:19 q+
15:42:19 zakim, next item
15:42:20 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LJWatson
15:42:50 PC: The API mapping document. It's been published as a heartbeat?
15:42:53 SF: Yes.
15:43:09 PC: Thought the TF wanted a hand in publishing that document?
15:43:12 JB: Yes.
15:43:18 PC: Did someone open a bug on that doc?
15:43:49 JB: It was a misfire. I don't know whether there is a bug on each one.
15:44:12 PC: We're talking about two documents. ARIA in HTML is in the hands of the WG and on today's agenda.
15:44:34 PC: For the API mapping doc I have a recollection that the TF wanted to be part of the publication process.
15:45:04 JB: It's listed as a TF document, so should be jointly managed. This wasn't properly referenced before.
15:46:11 zakim, next item
15:46:12 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LJWatson
15:46:19 ack p
15:46:21 zakim, next item
15:46:21 agendum 6. "Potential TF Participation at TPAC 2013?" taken up [from LJWatson]
15:46:48 q+
15:46:52 q+
15:46:55 MS: We spoke about discussing longdesc at TPAC.
15:47:26 ack chaals
15:47:30 CMN: May be able to attend the Test the Web Forward event.
15:47:36 ack judy
15:47:59 JB: We wanted to clear all longdesc LC comments before we bring to the WG.
15:48:26 JB: Discussion today would be premature.
15:48:53 PC: Are you presuming you can get integrated before it goes into TR?
15:48:58 -Cynthia_Shelly
15:49:07 JB: No. We're going through the process that's described though.
15:49:28