20:57:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:57:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-indie-ui-irc
20:57:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:57:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:57:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:57:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
20:57:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:57:22 <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2013
20:57:37 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
20:57:37 <Zakim> agenda cleared
20:57:42 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
20:57:42 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
20:57:42 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
20:57:42 <janina> agenda+ TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013
20:57:42 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Report
20:57:45 <janina> agenda+ Events Requirements Update http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
20:57:48 <janina> agenda+ Events Testing Update
20:57:50 <janina> agenda+ User Context Update
20:57:53 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:57:55 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
20:57:57 <Zakim> +??P0
20:57:58 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:57:59 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 18 September at 21:00Z)
20:58:01 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
20:58:16 <jasonjgw> jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
20:58:38 <Zakim> +??P1
20:58:40 <Zakim> -??P1
20:58:40 <Zakim> +??P1
20:59:29 <janina>  zakim, who's on the phone?
20:59:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, ??P1
20:59:39 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is me
20:59:39 <Zakim> +janina; got it
20:59:42 <jasonjgw> zakim, ??P1 is jasonjgw
20:59:42 <Zakim> +jasonjgw; got it
21:00:27 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:01:32 <janina> OK, Ted, thanks!
21:01:39 <Zakim> +??P2
21:04:36 <Zakim> +[Apple]
21:05:06 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple has jcraig
21:05:06 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
21:05:42 <MichaelC> regrets: Andy_Heath
21:05:52 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Sep/0000.html
21:09:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
21:09:22 <jcraig> q+ to mention edits since last meeting. rewrote feature detection section based on feedback from DOM WG. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/ https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-events.html#feature-detection
21:10:13 <jasonjgw> Two new staff members have joined W3C/WAI, based at MIT and Beihang University respectively.
21:12:17 <jcraig> q-
21:12:40 <MichaelC> zakim, take up item 1
21:12:40 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:12:46 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
21:12:46 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
21:12:48 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:12:48 <Zakim> 2. TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013 [from janina]
21:12:49 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
21:12:49 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013" taken up [from janina]
21:12:56 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
21:12:56 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
21:12:57 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:12:57 <Zakim> 3. Editor's Report [from janina]
21:13:02 <jcraig> rewrote feature detection section based on feedback from DOM WG. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/
21:13:06 <jcraig> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-events.html#feature-detection
21:13:34 <janina> zakim, next item
21:13:34 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Editor's Report" taken up [from janina]
21:13:43 <jcraig> rewrote feature detection section based on feedback from DOM WG. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/
21:13:50 <jcraig> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-events.html#feature-detection
21:14:49 <jasonjgw> The only edits since the last meeting relate to feature detection in the Events module, based on comments from the Web Applications wg. Object detection is now used.
21:15:32 <jcraig> https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
21:15:59 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:17:16 <ryladog> ryladog has joined #indie-ui
21:19:11 <jasonjgw> James reviews the issues list: secondary/contextual menu is the main feature noted as required for 1.0; media issues; mark request; various editorial issues; issue about activate requests, focus etc. 9 actions and 3 issues over-all.
21:19:25 <jasonjgw> Everything else can, he thinks, be postponed beyond 1.0.
21:20:39 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that we need to determine which features should be included in 1.0. We also need a second implementation.
21:21:35 <janina> action: Janina to check with Mozilla and Blink re plans to implement IndieUI Events for CR exit timeline
21:21:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Check with mozilla and blink re plans to implement indieui events for cr exit timeline [on Janina Sajka - due 2013-09-11].
21:23:38 <jasonjgw> James thinks the remaining features mentioned above in the issues list should be on the agenda for 1.0, but there may be additional missing features - he proposes a call for additional features so that the requirements for 1.0 can be finalized.
21:24:14 <jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to inform IndieUI list of remaining issues/actions for Events 1.0 and ask others to speak up if they need to add more.
21:24:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Inform indieui list of remaining issues/actions for events 1.0 and ask others to speak up if they need to add more. [on James Craig - due 2013-09-11].
21:25:51 <janina> q?
21:26:28 <jasonjgw> James raises the concern that some of the announcements associated with IndieUI are insufficiently specific about how the standards would work and how it would be implemented.
21:27:01 <Zakim> + +1.860.667.aaaa
21:27:24 <jcraig> zakim, aaaa is Rich
21:27:24 <Zakim> +Rich; got it
21:27:41 <jasonjgw> Some organizations, he notes, have expressed concerns about "accessibility-only" technologies and have a misimpression that IndieUI is such a technology; he notes that our work should not be so regarded and the documents need to reflect the broad benefits of the technologies.
21:29:58 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that we need to engage people whose engineering concerns are not related to accessibility. One way to address this would be in usage examples mentioned in announcements and other publicity related to the working group's activities.
21:30:41 <jcraig> The W3C Announcement was worded in lay terms: "For example, if a user wants to scroll down a page, they might use their finger on a touch screen, or click a scroll bar with a mouse, or use a scroll wheel, or say 'scroll down' with a voice command. With IndieUI, these are all sent to the Web app as simply: scroll down."
21:31:00 <jasonjgw> Rich notes that the new Events module makes applications more portable across platforms, and makes it easier to write code that moves responsibility for low-level event handling out of the Web application.
21:31:29 <jcraig> My argument is that this is a technical audience, so we need to reduce the implication that this is too "magical." I suggested the text, "For example, if a user wants to scroll down a page, they might use their finger on a touch screen, or click a scroll bar with a mouse, or use a scroll wheel, or say 'scroll down' with a voice command. When a web developer registers for an IndieUI scroll request event, these are all sent to the web app as a single type of
21:31:29 <jcraig> "scroll request" event that includes contextual information such as X/Y delta values."
21:31:35 <jasonjgw> Rich also notes benefits for automated testing of Web applications when IndieUI Events are implemented.
21:33:24 <jasonjgw> James notes issues with announcements and how minor changes could clarify the purpose of the work for potential implementors.
21:34:56 <jasonjgw> Janina suggests a discussion with Shawn Henry and EO.
21:36:30 <jasonjgw> James acknowledges that a few features may be perceived as assistive technology-related, notably point of regard focus.
21:37:36 <jasonjgw> Rich characterizes this as the platform's having a known location where it directs its operation - the point of regard can be used not just by keyboard interfaces but also eye-tracking software for example.
21:39:07 <jasonjgw> Janina summarizes: it's a common feature that arises in different types of interface, and this should be acknowledged.
21:39:42 <janina> action: Janina to follow up with Shawn re edits to the way IndieUI is discussed in W3C materials
21:39:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-70 - Follow up with shawn re edits to the way indieui is discussed in w3c materials [on Janina Sajka - due 2013-09-11].
21:40:12 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:40:12 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Events Requirements Update http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements" taken up [from janina]
21:41:37 <jasonjgw> Michael has consolidated the requirements and use cases, now separated in the document.
21:42:50 <jasonjgw> He notes that there are additional requirements inherent in the scenarios/use cases that should be documented (as requirements).
21:42:59 <Zakim> -Rich
21:43:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
21:44:02 <jasonjgw> Action for everyone: review the requirements and use cases to identify additional requirements. Some requirements can be shared among the use cases.
21:44:02 <trackbot> Error finding 'for'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/users>.
21:44:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:44:33 <MichaelC> zakim, mute ipcaller
21:44:33 <Zakim> [IPcaller] should now be muted
21:44:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, +[IPCaller is Rich
21:44:39 <Zakim> sorry, richardschwerdtfeger, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPCaller'
21:44:48 <jasonjgw> Janina observes the importance of requirements at the CR stage, where the need for each feature has to be documented and clearly articulated.
21:44:49 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Rich
21:44:49 <Zakim> +Rich; got it
21:45:12 <janina> q?
21:45:54 <janina> jason: We need to make sure all our events are noted as issues have associated requirements and are covered by scenarios and use cases, especially any that might be considered controversial
21:46:40 <jasonjgw> Michael concurs that events should be associated with requirements and use cases.
21:47:00 <jasonjgw> Janina observes that the requirements need to be ready by Last Call.
21:47:20 <jasonjgw> Michael accordingly suggests publishing a first public draft of requirements prior to Events last call.
21:47:49 <jasonjgw> This entails, Janina notes, publishing the requirements draft ahead of TPAC.
21:48:00 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:48:00 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Events Testing Update" taken up [from janina]
21:48:43 <janina> jason: Michael and I are in conversation about how to synthesize events for testing purposes
21:49:07 <janina> jason: Dialog continues, though Michael much occupied by ARIA and by WCAG2ICT the past two weeks
21:50:04 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:50:04 <Zakim> agendum 6. "User Context Update" taken up [from janina]
21:51:06 <janina> jason: Looked at ISO 24751 and note that many items there not currently covered in our reqs don't seem all that germane to use
21:51:16 <janina> jason: There are a few we might extract
21:51:31 <janina> jason: How does the wg wich to proceed?
21:52:08 <janina> jason: e.g. a weighting for context preferences
21:53:58 <janina> james: Is Apple a member? Think I should be able to get the doc? Can we point the group?
21:54:47 <janina> janina: Unaware of a publically referencable copy of 24751
21:55:01 <janina> jason: Also untagged PDF
21:56:16 <janina> janina: Don't believe we'll be looking to make any references to 24751, certainly not normative ones
21:56:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
21:57:01 <jcraig> Just to be clear, this would be related to IndieUI User Context, not IndieUI Events.
21:58:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> michael please unmute me
21:58:13 <jcraig> s/Is Apple a member? Think I should be able to get the doc? Can we point the group?/I should be able to get the doc, but can we point the group to a public copy of this, or is it always locked behind the paywall?/
21:58:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> Michael, please unmute me
21:58:53 <jasonjgw> Janina notes the main concern is to coordinate vocabulary (in the need/preference profiles).
21:58:53 <janina> janina: Main concern will be to use terms consistently
21:59:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> I am not unmuted
21:59:19 <jcraig> s/wich to/wish to/
21:59:50 <MichaelC> zakim, unmute rich
21:59:50 <Zakim> Rich should no longer be muted
21:59:55 <jcraig> janina, unmute Rich
22:01:18 <jasonjgw> Rich notes a proposal to establish a community group to foster the necessary coordination. There are additional items (for profile vocabularies) arising from educational communities.
22:02:47 <Zakim> -[Apple]
22:02:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.imsglobal.org/apip/index.html
22:03:11 <jasonjgw> zakim, list participants
22:03:11 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, jasonjgw, Michael_Cooper, jcraig, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.860.667.aaaa, Rich
22:03:14 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:03:16 <jcraig> jcraig has left #indie-ui
22:03:22 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, make minutes
22:03:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-indie-ui-minutes.html jasonjgw
22:03:27 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:03:40 <Zakim> -Rich
22:09:47 <Zakim> -janina
22:09:49 <Zakim> -jasonjgw
22:09:49 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:09:49 <Zakim> Attendees were janina, jasonjgw, Michael_Cooper, jcraig, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.860.667.aaaa, Rich