15:40:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
15:40:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-irc
15:40:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:40:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #audio
15:40:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
15:40:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
15:40:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
15:40:34 <trackbot> Date: 29 August 2013
15:41:16 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/0585.html
15:53:26 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
15:58:47 <chrislowis> agenda+ Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
15:58:55 <chrislowis> agenda+ Review of action items
15:59:07 <chrislowis> agenda+ New Web Audio API editors
15:59:50 <chrislowis> agenda+ TPAC
15:59:59 <chrislowis> agenda+ Data races
16:00:05 <chrislowis> agenda+ AOB
16:00:07 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:00:14 <chrislowis> agenda+ Next Meeting
16:00:16 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
16:00:30 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aaaa
16:00:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:48 <chrislowis> Zakim, IPcaller is me
16:00:48 <Zakim> +chrislowis; got it
16:01:42 <Zakim> + +1.408.772.aabb
16:01:43 <chrislowis> Zakim, what's on the agenda?
16:01:43 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
16:01:43 <Zakim> 1. Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe [from chrislowis]
16:01:43 <Zakim> 2. Review of action items [from chrislowis]
16:01:43 <Zakim> 3. New Web Audio API editors [from chrislowis]
16:01:43 <Zakim> 4. TPAC [from chrislowis]
16:01:43 <Zakim> 5. Data races [from chrislowis]
16:01:43 <Zakim> 6. AOB [from chrislowis]
16:01:44 <Zakim> 7. Next Meeting [from chrislowis]
16:01:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:54 <jernoble> zakim, aabb is me
16:01:56 <olivier> zakim, IPcaller is me
16:01:57 <Zakim> +jernoble; got it
16:01:57 <Zakim> +olivier; got it
16:02:28 <cwilso> zakim, who is here?
16:02:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.650.214.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, chrislowis, jernoble, olivier
16:02:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see jernoble, Zakim, RRSAgent, ehsan, johnwbyrd, olivier, cwilso, trackbot, heath, mdjp, shepazu, paul___irish, rtoyg, chrislowis, toyoshim, padenot
16:02:36 <chrislowis> Chair: olivier
16:02:40 <cwilso> zakim, .aaaa is me
16:02:40 <Zakim> sorry, cwilso, I do not recognize a party named '.aaaa'
16:02:44 <cwilso> zakim, aaaa is me
16:02:44 <Zakim> +cwilso; got it
16:02:44 <chrislowis> Scribe: chrislowis
16:02:48 <chrislowis> ScribeNick: chrislowis
16:03:00 <Zakim> + +33.1.84.88.aacc
16:03:04 <padenot> Zakim, aacc is me
16:03:04 <Zakim> +padenot; got it
16:04:00 <ehsan> I'm trying to dial in...
16:04:43 <olivier> https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/
16:05:20 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
16:05:24 <chrislowis> Zakim, take up 2
16:05:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up 2', chrislowis
16:05:29 <chrislowis> Zakim, take up agendum 2
16:05:30 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Review of action items" taken up [from chrislowis]
16:05:51 <Zakim> +[Mozilla.a]
16:06:18 <chrislowis> olivier: Action 64 - who would like to take it up?
16:06:22 <chrislowis> padenot: I will.
16:06:48 <olivier> ACTION-66
16:06:48 <trackbot> ACTION-66 -- Chris Lowis to Look into what dezippering in webkit was based on -- due 2013-08-08 -- OPEN
16:06:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/66
16:07:06 <olivier> chrislowis: only mention I can find of dezippering on the web is in our spec
16:07:23 <olivier> ... will write things up in the bug
16:07:29 <olivier> ... and we can discuss
16:07:32 <cwilso> q+
16:07:36 <olivier> ack c
16:08:50 <olivier> cwilso: we still need to decide whether or not to bake it in at all
16:09:13 <olivier> ACTION-67
16:09:13 <trackbot> ACTION-67 -- Olivier Thereaux to Contact psig to ask for the best course of action re bug 22969 -- due 2013-08-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:09:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/67
16:09:22 <chrislowis> olivier: this one is on me to contact PSIG
16:09:55 <chrislowis> olivier: I did not end up contacting them but the issue should be considered losed as per my email of earlier this week.
16:10:28 <chrislowis> olivier: the Open AL website is only transiently available.
16:10:51 <chrislowis> Relevant thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/0576.html
16:11:43 <chrislowis> olivier: most of the references in our spec are nonnormative.
16:12:22 <olivier> CLOSE ACTION-67
16:12:22 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-67.
16:12:31 <chrislowis> olivier: they are a few examples of where our naming conventions and defaults are the same as or close to those of Open AL, but these are not in areas of the spec that could be considered derivative.
16:12:41 <chrislowis> olivier: Happy to close if there's no objections?
16:12:48 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 1
16:12:48 <Zakim> agendum 1, Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe, closed
16:12:49 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:12:49 <Zakim> 2. Review of action items [from chrislowis]
16:12:53 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:12:53 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Review of action items" taken up [from chrislowis]
16:12:59 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:12:59 <Zakim> agendum 3. "New Web Audio API editors" taken up [from chrislowis]
16:13:50 <chrislowis> olivier: as you've seen on the list, we've appointed Chris Wilson (cwilso) and Paul Adenot (padenot)
16:14:11 <olivier> agenda?
16:14:32 <chrislowis> olivier: so thank you to Google and Mozilla respectively for contributing to the effort to this group.
16:14:55 <chrislowis> olivier: I want to ask the floor if there's any questions to the two new editors. And if cwilso and padenot have anything to say.
16:15:51 <chrislowis> olivier: we discussed using Github for continued development of the spec, as we do with WebMIDI.
16:16:29 <chrislowis> olivier: good news: (thanks Doug and Mike Smith) we have notifications connected up to the ML, which was my main gripe. cwilso and padenot what would be your preference?
16:17:16 <chrislowis> cwilso: Personally, I'm somewhat ambivalent between bugzilla and github issues. I have a strong preference for github as I use it in many other things.
16:17:35 <chrislowis> q+
16:17:48 <olivier> ack c
16:18:08 <ehsan> q+
16:18:09 <olivier> chrislowis: web platform test repo also on github, being able to cross-ref could be useful
16:18:13 <olivier> ack ehsan
16:18:38 <chrislowis> ehsan: I'm fairly apposed to using github issues, as it's already fairly hard to find issues on the i
16:19:01 <chrislowis> ehsan: list and adding a third source would make it difficult.
16:19:32 <chrislowis> cwilso: we need a strong wiki for the group, with sources of all the issues etc.
16:19:40 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/Main_Page#How_we_work_.28and_how_you_can_contribute.29
16:19:47 <olivier> (obviously imperfect)
16:20:18 <chrislowis> q+
16:20:23 <olivier> ack c
16:20:57 <olivier> ACTION: chrislowis to tidy up "how to contribute" section in wiki
16:20:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Tidy up "how to contribute" section in wiki [on Chris Lowis - due 2013-09-05].
16:21:07 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
16:22:12 <cwilso> q+
16:22:41 <chrislowis> ehsan: I'm for github for VCS, but I'm not so happy about using github issues for Web Audio.
16:23:21 <chrislowis> shepazu: can you turn off the github issue tracker?
16:23:56 <chrislowis> padenot: we can disable the issue tracker.
16:24:00 <olivier> ack chrislowis
16:24:02 <cwilso> ack cwilso
16:24:19 <chrislowis> cwilso: a third option is to stop using bugzilla for issue tracking, and start using github issues.
16:24:41 <chrislowis> cwilso: that's what I assumed we'd do if we move across. We'd stop using bugzilla, and start using github.
16:24:49 <chrislowis> olivier: agreed, the idea is there'd only be one.
16:25:35 <chrislowis> ehsan: I really prefer there'd be only one place, but which one, I don't mind
16:25:58 <chrislowis> olivier: so can we live with moving to github issues, and migrating the issues from bugzilla to github?
16:26:42 <olivier> ACTION: olivier to look into migrating all webaudio issues from bugzilla to github
16:26:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-70 - Look into migrating all webaudio issues from bugzilla to github [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-09-05].
16:27:10 <chrislowis> olivier: could cwilso or padenot handle moving the spec itself to a new repo on github?
16:27:18 <chrislowis> cwilso: sure.
16:27:26 <olivier> ACTION: cwilso to create repository on github for webaudio
16:27:26 <trackbot> Error finding 'cwilso'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/users>.
16:27:57 <olivier> ACTION: Chris Wilson to create repository on github for webaudio
16:27:58 <trackbot> 'Chris' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., clilley, clowis, crogers, ChrisWilson).
16:28:07 <olivier> ACTION: ChrisWilson to create repository on github for webaudio
16:28:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-71 - Create repository on github for webaudio [on Chris Wilson - due 2013-09-05].
16:29:20 <chrislowis> olivier: It has been suggested that we have a "distributed face-to-face"
16:29:50 <chrislowis> olivier: think of it as a long meeting where we convene periodically on the phone, but spend the day working through issues and clarifying the spec.
16:30:38 <chrislowis> cwilso: I think that having a spec-bashing / bug-finding meeting might be a good thing to do.
16:31:04 <chrislowis> cwilso: I think I'd prefer it personally to not have it soon as padenot and I have some work to do immediately to triage the issues and work through them.
16:31:12 <chrislowis> cwilso: so maybe not in the next month or two.
16:31:33 <chrislowis> olivier: Let me suggest something. We have a slot at TPAC 11th - 15th November
16:31:56 <chrislowis> olivier: I know from earlier that we may not get too many people along to TPAC due to the time of year and the distance.
16:32:21 <chrislowis> olivier: but maybe we could find time in that event to have a distributed meeting?
16:32:27 <chrislowis> olivier: is that something we could explore?
16:32:43 <chrislowis> olivier: so that we'd give back the slot at TPAC, but do this instead?
16:33:14 <cwilso> q+ to say probably best not to have a distributed meeting at/during TPAC; actual FTF time is scarce.
16:33:31 <chrislowis> shepazu: in terms of having a distributed meeting, I think it would be challenging. We'd need a phone line, which may not be too hard, but it is 14hr time zone difference to the east coast US.
16:33:39 <olivier> ack cwilso
16:33:39 <Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to say probably best not to have a distributed meeting at/during TPAC; actual FTF time is scarce.
16:34:16 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 4
16:34:16 <Zakim> agendum 4. "TPAC" taken up [from chrislowis]
16:35:21 <chrislowis> olivier: I'm leaning to officially having a f2f but acknowledge that not everyone will be there.
16:36:29 <chrislowis> shepazu: we (the W3C) encourage people to attend the f2f.
16:36:49 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/
16:37:10 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/#GroupSchedule
16:37:43 <chrislowis> cwilso: thurs-fri has the audio slot.
16:38:09 <chrislowis> shepazu: ehsan, would you be able to attend.
16:38:32 <chrislowis> ehsan: I'm looking into it, but due to other travel commitments, I might have to travel around the world!
16:38:43 <chrislowis> ehsan: I may attend, no promises yet.
16:40:09 <chrislowis> olivier: we have one co-editor and one spec editor with conflicts.
16:42:01 <chrislowis> shepazu: if we're not going to have a f2f it would be good to have some presence for the Audio WG. Even though the timing might not work out for a full meeting, we at least have some people there.
16:42:38 <chrislowis> olivier: I'll take a note of this and relay that to the organisers by email.
16:42:53 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 5
16:42:53 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Data races" taken up [from chrislowis]
16:43:36 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
16:44:21 <cwilso> can't live with what, precisely?  ROC's last proposal?
16:44:52 <ehsan> cwilso: https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Roc/AudioBufferProposal
16:44:57 <chrislowis> olivier: I'm asking the question how much consensus or "can't live with it" we have around Roc's proposal.
16:45:16 <chrislowis> ehsan: stating the obvious, I'm in favour of the proposal!
16:46:21 <chrislowis> cwilso: The broad response is that in short although I think this proposal has some associated costs, I think that Google can live with the proposal (thanks to Roc for the email back-and-forth to clarify it).
16:46:49 <chrislowis> cwilso: My primary concern has always been to users who need to use our API. And I think it's not too bad.
16:47:09 <chrislowis> cwilso: narrowly, there's some details around the CopyChannelDataTo
16:47:14 <jernoble> q+
16:47:18 <olivier> ack j
16:47:27 <chrislowis> olivier: any more opinions, I will take silence as "can live with it".
16:48:12 <chrislowis> jernoble: I need to study this a bit more to really understand it. In general I am not in favour of anything that requires data neutering by default, but I will get back soon with a definitive opinion.
16:48:52 <chrislowis> olivier: what I'll do then is send out a "call for consensus" on the ML tomorrow, and ask for responses within 1 week.
16:49:11 <chrislowis> olivier: and if we don't hear strong objections, we can work together to continue to improve it.
16:49:19 <olivier> ACTION: olivier to send CFC on ROC's audiobuffer data races proposal with ETA in a week
16:49:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Send cfc on roc's audiobuffer data races proposal with eta in a week [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2013-09-05].
16:49:36 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 6
16:49:36 <Zakim> agendum 6. "AOB" taken up [from chrislowis]
16:50:14 <chrislowis> shepazu: just to say: welcome to the new editors!
16:50:36 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 7
16:50:36 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Next Meeting" taken up [from chrislowis]
16:51:07 <chrislowis> olivier: next meeting is scheduled for the 12th September.
16:51:28 <chrislowis> shepazu: I may be travelling.
16:51:36 <chrislowis> ehsan: me too. I'm not quite sure yet though.
16:52:45 <chrislowis> cwilso: next week contains a holiday in the US, so it will be a shorter week.
16:53:31 <chrislowis> olivier: tentatively then, we'll meet next week same time as usual.
16:53:44 <chrislowis> olivier: meeting adjurned.
16:54:10 <Zakim> -jernoble
16:54:12 <Zakim> -olivier
16:54:13 <Zakim> -chrislowis
16:54:14 <Zakim> -cwilso
16:54:15 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
16:56:14 <chrislowis> rrsagent, generate the minutes
16:56:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-minutes.html chrislowis
16:56:56 <chrislowis> RRSAgent, make logs visible
16:57:03 <chrislowis> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:58:31 <chrislowis> rrsagent, bye
16:58:31 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-actions.rdf :
16:58:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chrislowis to tidy up "how to contribute" section in wiki [1]
16:58:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-irc#T16-20-57
16:58:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: olivier to look into migrating all webaudio issues from bugzilla to github [2]
16:58:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-irc#T16-26-42
16:58:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cwilso to create repository on github for webaudio [3]
16:58:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-irc#T16-27-26
16:58:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Chris Wilson to create repository on github for webaudio [4]
16:58:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-irc#T16-27-57
16:58:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ChrisWilson to create repository on github for webaudio [5]
16:58:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-irc#T16-28-07
16:58:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: olivier to send CFC on ROC's audiobuffer data races proposal with ETA in a week [6]
16:58:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/29-audio-irc#T16-49-19