14:57:34 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:57:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/27-html-media-irc
14:57:35 RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:35 Zakim has joined #html-media
14:57:37 Zakim, this will be 63342
14:57:37 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:38 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:57:38 Date: 27 August 2013
14:57:47 zakim, this will be HTML
14:57:47 ok, glenn; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:58:28 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:35 +??P5
14:58:40 zakim, ??p5 is me
14:58:40 +glenn; got it
14:58:42 +[Microsoft]
14:59:06 paulc has joined #html-media
14:59:39 pal has joined #html-media
15:00:01 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Aug/0038.html
15:00:14 joesteele has joined #html-media
15:00:26 trackbot, start meeting
15:00:28 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:00:30 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:00:30 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:31 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:00:31 Date: 27 August 2013
15:00:37 BobLund has joined #html-media
15:00:43 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:43 I notice HTML_WG()11:00AM has restarted
15:00:45 On the phone I see glenn, [Microsoft]
15:00:48 +niels_thorwirth
15:00:54 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:00:55 +paulc; got it
15:00:58 markw has joined #html-media
15:01:10 +[Adobe]
15:01:10 davide has joined #html-media
15:01:20 Zakim, Adobe has joesteele
15:01:22 +joesteele; got it
15:01:30 +davide
15:01:50 +markw
15:01:54 Niels_VMX has joined #html-media
15:02:10 +pladd
15:02:17 JamilEllis has joined #html-media
15:02:22 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:22 On the phone I see glenn, paulc, niels_thorwirth, [Adobe], davide, markw, pladd
15:02:25 [Adobe] has joesteele
15:02:34 pladd has joined #html-media
15:03:14 +pal
15:03:23 ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:03:23 Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:23 On the phone I see glenn, paulc, niels_thorwirth, [Adobe], davide, markw, pladd, pal
15:03:25 [Adobe] has joesteele
15:03:32 scribenick: joesteele
15:04:10 +BobLund
15:04:20 +[Microsoft]
15:04:23 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:04:23 +adrianba; got it
15:04:32 Chair: paulc
15:04:46 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Aug/0038.html
15:04:46 Topic: Agenda
15:05:00 +ddorwin
15:05:11 paulc: not sure where to start on the bugs
15:05:22 Zakim, who is here?
15:05:22 On the phone I see glenn, paulc, niels_thorwirth, [Adobe], davide, markw, pladd, pal, BobLund, adrianba, ddorwin
15:05:24 [Adobe] has joesteele
15:05:24 On IRC I see ddorwin, pladd, JamilEllis, Niels_VMX, davide, markw, BobLund, joesteele, pal, paulc, Zakim, RRSAgent, adrianba, glenn, trackbot, wseltzer
15:05:33 Topic: Heartbeat Docs
15:05:53 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2013Aug/0023.html
15:06:14 paulc: last week looked like Adrian agreed to produce the stable doc - checked with Robin and had not seen a response from EME editors
15:06:34 adrianba: said last week we would do in two weeks, can't publish this week
15:06:54 paulc: saw reference to that - was that the consensus?
15:07:09 ... were there bugs we should look at and review?
15:07:52 adrianba: conclusion was that we did not need to wait for specific bugs, but felt that with planned work we would have more up to date spec next week
15:08:04 paulc: trying to have two weeks or ready this week?
15:08:05 jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:08:09 adrianba: not sure
15:08:26 +[Microsoft]
15:08:29 paulc: moratorium this week, some docs will be published next week, e.g. MSE Last Call
15:08:44 ... not obvious that we need to do a CFC at the working group
15:08:56 ... need a stable draft to do that
15:09:02 ... out of this meeting
15:09:35 ... can the participants today look at agenda today and decide which items we want to close today
15:09:35 I'm just completing ACTION-37 now
15:12:04 joesteele: not ready on bug#17673 yet (action-25) -- apologies
15:12:27 paulc: are you suggesting action-31 is moot now?
15:12:46 ddorwin: tried to resolve a couple of weeks ago, realized we had not made a decision yet
15:12:55 ... last comment refers to that
15:13:11 paulc: any other bugs we should focus on for candidate heartbeat?
15:13:14 q+
15:13:48 adrianba: did close ACTION-30 this morning
15:13:56 ... closing bug#20966
15:14:17 ... reason I had not done this till now was I wanted to add the privacy considerations spec
15:14:35 s/considerations spec/considerations language/
15:14:50 q-
15:14:55 Topic: Bug#18515
15:15:02 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c13
15:15:19 paulc: believe this is the comment to look at
15:15:53 adrianba: ACTION-36 on Gary and I to review the comments David had made and decide what we thought
15:16:09 ... at the point where playback locks because of a piece of encrypted media and no key is available
15:16:17 ... consensus is that playback should stall
15:16:27 ... should media state of the element actually change to reflect the stall
15:16:34 ... or should stall just be implicit?
15:16:44 ... our position is to not change the ready state
15:16:49 zakim, who's noisy?
15:16:59 ... reason is that is you are using MSE and EME together
15:17:02 glenn, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: paulc (92%), adrianba (75%)
15:17:16 ... using playback code for adaptive streaming
15:17:37 ... changing the ready state might change the playback code and trigger downloading more data
15:17:43 ... proboably not the right thing to do
15:18:56 q+
15:18:57 q+
15:19:00 s/proboably/probably/
15:19:06 q+
15:19:07 joesteele: ok
15:19:07 ack dd
15:19:23 ddorwin: still need to figure out the wording - any suggestions?
15:19:28 q- later
15:20:12 markw: proposal is that the media element could still be playing, and the fact that we are waiting for a key is represented on the key session?
15:20:21 +[Microsoft.a]
15:20:23 -paulc
15:20:34 ... isn't that strange that the media element cannot play although it indicates it can?
15:20:35 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:20:35 +paulc; got it
15:20:51 (swapping phones to avoid the air flow noise in my office)
15:21:00 adrianba: if you have a counterproposal that can handle the adaptive case, we should consider that
15:21:20 markw: need to check but let's go ahead
15:21:28 q+ to say that I'm fine not changing readyState, but any state should be reflected in HTMLMediaElement
15:21:32 q?
15:21:41 ack markw
15:21:58 adrianba: comment that we still have action-31 to define some text
15:22:06 ... does David still want to own that action?
15:22:22 paulc: so action-31 not covered by your proposal?
15:22:27 ack ad
15:22:45 adrianba: action-31 was the proposal text, our action-36 was to review the question which we have done
15:22:58 ... sounds like we have consensus on how to resolve, just need the text now
15:23:13 paulc: david, was that your point?
15:23:33 ddorwin: yes, we have mostly consensus on what to change
15:23:43 ... just not how to reflect it
15:23:51 ... should not change the media session to reflect it
15:24:01 ... maybe in the media element or not at all
15:24:02 q+
15:24:07 ack dd
15:24:07 ddorwin, you wanted to say that I'm fine not changing readyState, but any state should be reflected in HTMLMediaElement
15:24:10 ... just have a pseudo-state like it is currently
15:24:23 ack ad
15:24:44 adrianba: I think it was clear that you would have a session in a pending state to get into this situation
15:24:58 ... but it is possible that you have a needKey but have not created the session yet
15:25:16 ... don't think I have a problem with adding something to the media element that indicates that
15:25:34 ddorwin: what would that be? event, attribute
15:25:58 adrianba: maybe an attribute, parallel to media element, like an enum
15:26:13 ... think we get events already that lead to this
15:26:22 ... may not need ot know the point at which it stalled
15:26:29 ... what would the app do with the event?
15:26:31 q+
15:26:40 ddorwin: not sure we need to reflect it
15:27:08 ... we could add text about what the UA should do
15:27:15 ... not about what we provide to the app
15:27:26 ... not sure what the app would do
15:27:47 adrianba: could add it but not sure if it would be useful
15:28:12 ... maybe start with just being clear in the spec that you are supposed to stall waiting for the key
15:28:24 ... if we find some gaps implementing then we can look at adding it
15:28:33 ddorwin: that sounds good to me
15:28:56 ... cpoy "future data or not future data from the spec" or I can seach around
15:29:01 ack joe
15:29:59 joesteele: not worth adding until we have implementation experience or specific need
15:30:15 somewhere on this page: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html
15:30:15 paulc: can we point to that text directly?
15:30:36 paulc: section 4.8?
15:31:38 what about 4.8.10.7 "Ready states"?
15:31:48 Maybe we should fire |waiting|: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#event-media-waiting
15:31:49 for text I mean
15:32:00 There is a definition of a blocked media element: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#blocked-media-element
15:33:01 ddorwin: we are asking for existing text that could reflect when we are waiting for a key
15:33:08 ... nothing exact right now
15:33:19 ... about what "should happen" in that state
15:33:32 ... probably have to make it up
15:33:44 paulc: should we resolve now or assign to the editors?
15:34:00 ... or could leave ACTION-31 open until David can propose some text?
15:34:11 ddorwin: don't need to block the heartbeat on this one
15:34:16 ... has some existing text
15:34:37 paulc: reopened ACTION-31 at original state
15:34:47 ... David you still have this action
15:34:47 close ACTION-36
15:34:47 Closed ACTION-36.
15:35:02 ACTION-31?
15:35:02 ACTION-31 -- David Dorwin to Propose text to resolve bug 18515 -- due 2013-09-10 -- OPEN
15:35:02 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/31
15:35:36 RESOLVED: David will attend the ACTION-31 with text proposed by ACTION-36
15:35:46 s/attend the/attend to/
15:35:54 Topic: Bug#20966
15:36:04 paulc: you closed ACTION-30?
15:36:07 ACTION-30?
15:36:07 ACTION-30 -- Adrian Bateman to Implement closing 20966 -- due 2013-08-27 -- CLOSED
15:36:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/30
15:36:40 paulc: referred to comment #9 that it was resolved pointing to August 6th minutes
15:36:41 See https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20966#c9
15:37:02 adrianba: this bug has been around for awhile and reopened without specific information
15:37:18 ... just realized that I need to remove the note in the document about the state of this bug
15:37:44 ... bug#20965 is the main placeholder for privacy issues
15:38:07 glenn: 22909 is the generic bug I would recommend to handle this
15:38:41 paulc: if this bug depends on bug#22909 how do we resolve?
15:38:54 adrianba: looks like we have duplicate bugs
15:39:13 ... 20966 is a dup of 20965 unless there is more information
15:39:28 ... I resolved that adding the privacy condierations section later today
15:39:36 ... should resolve the other also
15:39:57 Security considerations? https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22909#c1
15:39:59 paulc: if you add this security considerations section - that is from this comment
15:40:04 ... ?
15:40:21 adrianba: we have ended up with lots of bugs that say the same thing
15:40:39 ... original plan was to add this section with a placeholder
15:40:57 ... added the text from 22910 verbatim from Glenns proposal without review
15:41:01 ... needs review
15:41:14 ... bit more discussion on the security considerations
15:41:23 ... on whether the right suggestions are being made
15:41:24 Privacy considerations are proposed in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22910#c1
15:41:42 ... still recommend keeping the master bug open
15:41:56 ... from prior to FPWD
15:42:32 paulc: so 20966 is resolved as NEEDSINFO
15:42:55 ... what do we do with the dependcey on bug#22909?
15:43:05 s/dependcey/dependency/
15:43:16 adrianba: remove it
15:43:23 ddorwin: think it is useful as a reference
15:44:03 glenn: 20966 has been closed and ir makred as dependant -- dependency can continue to exist
15:44:21 s/makred/marked.
15:44:23 s/makred/marked/
15:45:08 paulc: adrian you were proposing to add a security section as per bug#22909 and privacy section from bug#22910
15:45:12 ... does that resolve?
15:45:17 adrianba: I believe so
15:45:20 Security section from https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22909#c2
15:45:36 Privacy section from tps://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22910#c1
15:45:49 That can resolve 22909 and 22910 leaving open 20965
15:45:52 paulc: this can resolve these bugs, leaving open 20965
15:46:01 adrianba: yes
15:46:58 paulc: so bug#20965 will remain open as the master bug
15:47:01 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965
15:47:06 -BobLund
15:47:57 RESOLVED bug#22909, bug#22910, bug#20966 will be closed and bug#20965 will remain open
15:48:22 paulc: other candidate bug#17673 was mentioned but joe said is not done
15:48:28 ... any other items we can look at?
15:49:23 ... ACTION-35 was on me -- still need to do it
15:49:33 ... putting in heartbeat means this is slightly changed
15:49:56 ACTION-37?
15:49:56 ACTION-37 -- Mark Watson to Update wiki provided for bug 20944 to cover the case where the drm is supporting by the os -- due 2013-08-20 -- CLOSED
15:49:56 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/37
15:50:04 markw: did that this morning
15:50:16 Topic: Bug#20944
15:50:47 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944
15:50:52 s/ tps:\/\//https:\/\//
15:51:00 What is the status with this bug given ACTION-37 is closed.
15:51:03 ACTION-37?
15:51:03 ACTION-37 -- Mark Watson to Update wiki provided for bug 20944 to cover the case where the drm is supporting by the os -- due 2013-08-20 -- CLOSED
15:51:03 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/37
15:51:20 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944#c30
15:51:57 glenn: I can implement the change to the registry text as suggested
15:52:21 paulc: on Feb 13th we added a note to the abstract that this was an open issue
15:52:32