14:59:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:59:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/21-forms-irc
14:59:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:59:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
14:59:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:07 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:59:07 <trackbot> Date: 21 August 2013
14:59:15 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:59:46 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0011
14:59:55 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0011
15:00:06 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
15:00:29 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
15:00:36 <Zakim> +??P3
15:00:37 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
15:00:38 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
15:02:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:40 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:02:40 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:03:42 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:04:18 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:05:14 <Steven> "Nick: I will be away the first three weeks of September"
15:10:18 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek has joined #forms
15:10:54 <nvdbleek> zaki, code?
15:11:00 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
15:11:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
15:11:43 <Zakim> +nvdbleek
15:12:12 <Steven> Topic: Formulas for summing values, done right
15:12:12 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0005.html
15:12:48 <Steven> Erik: People have trouble working out how to do this. It is hard in many languages.
15:13:18 <Steven> ... hadnling currencies for instance should be in decimal
15:13:24 <Steven> s/dn/nd/
15:14:19 <Steven> Topic: Orbeon Forms 4.3
15:14:19 <Steven> http://blog.orbeon.com/2013/08/orbeon-forms-43.html
15:14:41 <Steven> Steven: Anything particular worth mentioning?
15:14:58 <Steven> Erik: Extensions that might be worth bringing to XForms sometime
15:15:10 <Steven> ... dealing with multiple constraints
15:15:21 <Steven> ... different alert messages for different constraints
15:15:49 <Steven> ... and BetterForms have something similar
15:15:55 <Steven> ... we went a little further
15:16:17 <Steven> ... and have warnings as well as errors
15:17:31 <Steven> Topic: XForms in 2013
15:17:31 <Steven> http://dubinko.info/blog/2013/08/10/xforms-in-2013/
15:17:35 <Steven> Steven: For the record
15:17:54 <Steven> Topic: XSLTForms Gets AVTs!!!!!
15:17:54 <Steven> http://kurtcagle.tumblr.com/post/18517790086/xsltforms-gets-avts
15:18:15 <Steven> Steven: Advertising the benefits of AVTs in XForms
15:18:23 <Steven> Topic: FYI: Average Income per Programming Language
15:18:23 <Steven> http://bpodgursky.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/average-income-per-programming-language/
15:18:58 <Steven> Steven: An interesting analysis, not sure how true.
15:19:17 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-1954 - Add the bind() function
15:19:17 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0009.html
15:19:27 <Steven> Steven: Looked fine to me
15:19:40 <Steven> ... everyone else OK?
15:19:47 <Steven> Erik: We had discussed earlier
15:20:20 <Steven> ... John Boyer had said "it would be nice if..." with some extra features, but they aren't in there.
15:20:43 <Steven> ... issues with the dependency graph.
15:21:04 <Steven> ... Would need more work to deal with that.
15:21:57 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-1896 - Send a e-mail to Michael Kay about providing type
15:21:57 <Steven> information to the nodes in instances
15:21:57 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Aug/0007.html
15:22:35 <Steven> Nick: We never came to a conclusion with this. It sort of fizzled out.
15:23:29 <Steven> Erik: I had it on my list, I realised recently looking at the expressions (see above), that it needed to be done.
15:23:59 <Steven> ... the problem is that any expression that deals with data in the model, involves types.
15:24:10 <Steven> ... numbers and dates particularly
15:25:28 <Steven> ... it makes perfect sense that expressions use information about the types without using csts
15:25:33 <Steven> s/csts/casts/
15:26:06 <Steven> Steven: So you derive types from the model and pass them on?
15:26:30 <Steven> Erik: XPath engines can support this.
15:27:15 <Steven> ... Xpath 2 supports using type information (e.g. in a+b) if available.
15:27:45 <Steven> Steven: Is it as if you are supplying invisible casts?
15:27:48 <Steven> Erik: Yes.
15:28:19 <Steven> ... Xpath 2 supports it in the API
15:28:36 <Steven> ... I had an action item to ask Mike Kay
15:29:37 <Steven> ... XForms can't guarantee that at runtime the value has the right type.
15:30:47 <Steven> ... Mike Kay was a bit puzzled, and was surprised about what I told him, probably because he is not at home with XForms
15:31:16 <Steven> ... but he said he would expect an implementation would provide types
15:32:11 <Steven> Steven: So you proposed writing some text.
15:32:22 <Steven> Erik: Yes. I don't think it is too hard to specify.
15:34:17 <Steven> ... Kay suggested that the results of the calculations should be used for coercions.
15:34:30 <Steven> ... I haven't considered that yet.
15:34:40 <Zakim> -ebruchez
15:35:00 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:36:26 <Steven> Nick: If you have a bind to a schema type, some Xpath engines don't necessarily support it.
15:36:32 <Steven> ... so it can't be required.
15:36:46 <Steven> Erik: Right.
15:37:16 <Steven> ... but having support for the simple types is already useful.
15:37:20 <Steven> Nick: I agree.
15:38:00 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to write text for type information for XPath expressions
15:38:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1955 - Write text for type information for xpath expressions [on Erik Bruchez - due 2013-08-28].
15:38:23 <Steven> Topic: Progress to LC
15:39:04 <Steven> Steven: Nick is about to go away. I shall be unavailable for two calls.
15:40:20 <Steven> Steven: So let's try for a call for the 18th September, but up to then we are on hold.
15:40:45 <Steven> Nick: I won't be able to do preparatory work for that call.
15:40:59 <Steven> Steven: No problem, we can use the call to schedule the progress.
15:41:15 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:41:20 <Steven> Steven: ?
15:41:25 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
15:41:30 <Zakim> -Steven
15:41:31 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:41:33 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
15:41:34 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
15:41:34 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven, [IPcaller], ebruchez, nvdbleek
15:41:53 <alain> alain has left #forms
15:41:57 <Steven> Present+Alain
15:42:02 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:42:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/21-forms-minutes.html Steven
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