IRC log of aapi on 2013-07-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:00:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aapi
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-irc
19:00:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
19:00:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #aapi
19:00:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
19:00:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start now
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Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
19:00:26 [trackbot]
Date: 23 July 2013
19:00:37 [clown]
trackbot, make log public
19:00:37 [trackbot]
Sorry, clown, I don't understand 'trackbot, make log public'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
19:00:44 [clown]
trackbot, make logs public
19:00:44 [trackbot]
Sorry, clown, I don't understand 'trackbot, make logs public'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
19:01:24 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
19:02:36 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
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+[GVoice]
19:02:54 [clown]
zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:02:54 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:03:01 [Zakim]
+??P4
19:03:19 [clown]
zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:19 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:04:51 [clown]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Jul/0009.html
19:04:59 [clown]
scribenick: clown
19:05:11 [clown]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:05:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:05:11 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
19:05:41 [cyns]
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19:06:34 [clown]
Topic: Cynthia and RIch's meeting.
19:06:41 [clown]
CS: Met with Rich
19:07:00 [clown]
CS: went over tests, got some passing, made recommedations for changes.
19:07:07 [clown]
CS: Joseph has made the changes.
19:07:09 [clown]
JS: Yes.
19:07:20 [clown]
CS: I need to got back and redo some of the tests.
19:08:11 [clown]
CS: I"m also setting up a Windows 8 machine in the hope that ones that fail in IE10 might pass in IE11.
19:08:26 [clown]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Jul/0009.html
19:08:39 [clown]
Topic: aria-checked is undefined.
19:08:48 [clown]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_state-property_table
19:09:37 [clown]
JS: in the states/properites table, I think apple is the only one correct.
19:09:53 [clown]
CS: if this is a checkbox, it has to be checkable and unchecked.
19:10:16 [clown]
JS: but this the general case.
19:10:39 [clown]
JS: What should it say if not a check box?
19:11:25 [clown]
CS: the way it's described here is for a checkable object.
19:11:45 [clown]
JS: I think it should state for a non-checkable object.
19:12:19 [clown]
CS: Then it should be "Not mapped".
19:12:23 [clown]
JS: Like apple?
19:12:56 [clown]
JS: I think we could add to the lef column "treat as false if checkbable item", where it lists checkbox, radio, etc.
19:13:07 [clown]
CS: There is a list of the ones that require a checkable state.
19:16:34 [clown]
JS: this will allow me to finiish a test case for aria-checked.
19:16:54 [clown]
Topic: ISSUE-583
19:16:58 [clown]
ISSUE-583?
19:16:58 [trackbot]
ISSUE-583 -- Elements that are descendants of an element having aria-activedescendant should not all be focusable -- open
19:16:58 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/583
19:17:46 [clown]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013JulSep/0118.html
19:17:57 [clown]
CS: I disagree.
19:18:18 [clown]
CS: We had giant discussion about this, and we finally reached a compromise.
19:18:28 [clown]
CS: I do not want to re-open the topic.
19:20:42 [clown]
JS: he says that the ID might not been assigned until just before it becomes focussed.
19:20:57 [clown]
CS: I would like to see an example of a page that works that way.
19:22:15 [clown]
JS: another one of his complaints is that many children have a role and an ID for styling, but won't be active descendatns.
19:22:32 [clown]
CS: That doesn't mean it needs to become an active descendant.
19:22:53 [clown]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_aria-activedescendant
19:23:12 [clown]
"For any element with an ID attribute, where the element is a descendant of an element with the aria-activedescendant attribute, apply the following accessibility API states to the target to ensure the object is accessible:"
19:23:36 [clown]
"Focusable, if the element also has a WAI-ARIA http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#def_role"
19:24:34 [clown]
CS: Right, but that doesn't mean it has to be a target. If the author doesn't make it an active descedant, it won't become one.
19:26:08 [clown]
JS: Consider an AT asking how many focusable elements are there in the container, there would be extra elements counted (if they had an ID and a role).
19:26:20 [clown]
CS: I think this is the only way it would work in Windows.
19:26:38 [clown]
CS: Again, we had a long discusssion about this, and this is what we could agree on.
19:27:01 [clown]
CS: Even if James is right, I would want to not reopen this until ARIA 1.1.
19:28:45 [clown]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2013AprJun/0476.html
19:28:57 [clown]
James Craig's first email about the topic ^
19:30:52 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
19:31:04 [clown]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:31:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:31:44 [clown]
Topic; Testing.
19:32:04 [clown]
MC: Like to deal with some issues prior to next Mon's call.
19:32:34 [MichaelC]
UAIG test suite: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=2
19:32:55 [MichaelC]
UAIG tests from a year ago: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA/Tests/Testable_Statements#User_Agent_Implementation_Guide_Testable_Statements
19:33:13 [clown]
JS: 165 more tests.
19:33:33 [clown]
MC: are we testing these on the same platforms as ARIA.
19:33:40 [clown]
MC: I assume so.
19:34:02 [clown]
MC: Some tests are not platform specific.
19:34:24 [clown]
MC: Some of the tables don't have IA2.
19:34:31 [clown]
MC: I'm not sure what that means.
19:34:45 [clown]
JS: Can I have an example?
19:35:58 [clown]
JS: Test case 6 might be a duplicate.
19:36:13 [MichaelC]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=111
19:36:36 [clown]
MC: this test didn't come from the UAIG, and it only has three platforms in the wiki.
19:36:46 [MichaelC]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=155
19:37:09 [clown]
MC: and this one: there is no column for IA2.
19:38:45 [clown]
JS: It's MSAA that's applicable.
19:42:07 [clown]
JS: IA2 is not really separate from MSAA.
19:42:45 [clown]
JS: IA2 assumes MSAA roles, states, events, etc. but then adds more where information is needed.
19:43:07 [clown]
JS: IA2 is an extenstion of MSAA.
19:43:40 [clown]
MC: We need to inform the director about this in the right way so that all bases are covered.
19:47:01 [clown]
MC: I think that answers my questions on platform.
19:47:18 [clown]
MC: Next, review these test cases, and make sure they are still accurate.
19:47:36 [clown]
MC: there are places in the testable statements where there were ...
19:48:48 [clown]
MC: I made a note: "note the following need AAPI representations of the expected results wrt posinset and setsize"
19:49:11 [clown]
MC: there are things like this peppered about the wiki testable statements.
19:49:27 [clown]
MC: we need to got through and flesh these out.
19:50:05 [clown]
JS: there are a quite a few of those.
19:50:18 [clown]
MC: some will be simple; some will be more involved.
19:50:26 [clown]
JS: when is this due?
19:50:48 [clown]
MC: want to good head start on the test suite as we enter last call.
19:51:02 [clown]
MC: want to begin the testing to verify the testing methodology.
19:51:52 [clown]
MC: ideally, enough testing on at least one user agent so we are relatively sure of the test suite by the time we enter last call.
19:52:37 [clown]
MC: sometimes this is error correction.
19:54:02 [clown]
MC: we also want to get to last call failry soon.
19:54:24 [clown]
MC: the UAIG becomes more of a bottleneck as the ARIA testing is completed.
19:55:15 [clown]
MC: If we want ARIA out by Dec of this year, we can't do last call less than three months from that — Sep.
19:55:26 [clown]
JS: yes, it is a challenge.
20:03:57 [clown]
MC: we've had our chat; we can continue to use this time for UAIG test case discussion.
20:04:10 [clown]
MC: Should do in Mon call as well.
20:04:30 [clown]
MC: and, we need to assign people to plug these gaps, so that we can declare the test sutie good.
20:04:49 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
20:04:58 [clown]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:04:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:06:55 [Zakim]
-Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:06:57 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has ended
20:06:57 [Zakim]
Attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper, Cynthia_Shelly
20:07:23 [clown]
chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:07:32 [clown]
regrets: David_Bolter
20:07:37 [clown]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:07:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:08:18 [clown]
s/sutie/suite/
20:08:23 [clown]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:08:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:12:23 [clown]
s/complaints/points/
20:12:26 [clown]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:12:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/23-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:16:52 [clown]
RRSagent, please part
20:16:52 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items