IRC log of mbui on 2013-06-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

09:57:55 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #mbui
09:57:55 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/14-mbui-irc
09:58:10 [dsr]: meeting: MBUI teleconference
09:58:18 [dsr]: chair: Fabio
09:59:50 [Zakim]: UW_MBUI()6:00AM has now started
09:59:58 [Zakim]: + +33.4.76.51.aaaa
10:00:08 [Zakim]: +Dsr
10:00:26 [joelle]: it seemsim the only one on the phone line
10:00:26 [dsr]: Present +Dave
10:00:47 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
10:00:51 [Zakim]: +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
10:01:06 [dsr]: Present +Paolo
10:01:16 [dsr]: Present +Jaroslav
10:01:34 [dsr]: Present: Dave, Joelle, Paolo, Jaroslav
10:02:33 [Zakim]: + +39.050.621.aabb
10:02:51 [dsr]: Jaroslav asks Joelle for an update
10:03:06 [dsr]: Joelle: platform and device for the glossary
10:03:08 [dsr]: Present+ Fabio
10:03:23 [dsr]: Joelle notes that ISTI were due to provide some definitions
10:04:27 [dsr]: Fabio: no many people have registered for the F2F -- currently only 6, is Jaroslav coming?
10:04:29 [Zakim]: +??P4
10:04:56 [dsr]: Jaroslav: I hope too, but am currently trying to get the funding for the trip
10:05:06 [dsr]: Present+ Davide
10:05:07 [dsr]: scribenick: dsr
10:05:26 [Zakim]: +??P5
10:05:35 [dsr]: Davide won't be going to the Munich F2F, but would like to participate via skype if that is possible.
10:05:49 [dsr]: Fabio: please ask Heiko
10:05:59 [Zakim]: + +30231125aacc
10:06:06 [dsr]: Present+ Cristina
10:06:13 [Nick_Kaklanis]: Nick_Kaklanis has joined #mbui
10:06:27 [dsr]: Cristina: we won't be present in person, but hope to join via skype
10:06:48 [dsr]: Present+ Nicos
10:07:08 [Nick_Kaklanis]: Present+ Nick_Kaklanis
10:07:20 [dsr]: Nicos plans to attend. Fabio asks him to add his name to the table on the wiki, see http://www.w3.org/wiki/MBUI_WG_Face_to_Face,_Munich,_2013
10:07:32 [dsr]: Topic: Glossary Document
10:07:53 [UCL]: UCL has joined #mbui
10:08:06 [dsr]: Fabio summarises where we are and notes that ISTI have done their home work.
10:08:45 [UCL]: UCL will be there in few seconds. Hello.
10:09:07 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller.a]
10:09:14 [dsr]: He notes that ISTI prefer the term Abstract Task and have defined that. We've also added Composite Abstract Task.
10:09:21 [Zakim]: -[IPcaller]
10:09:24 [davide_]: davide_ has joined #mbui
10:09:33 [davide_]: Present+ davide
10:09:44 [Zakim]: +??P1
10:09:44 [dsr]: We checked the definition of task and cleaned that up. Likewise for the term Category.
10:10:15 [dsr]: Joelle: I've looked at your definitions and think they are good!
10:10:15 [UCL]: We are on the air now
10:10:47 [dsr]: Paolo: I am not completely happy, but ...
10:11:06 [dsr]: Present+ UCL
10:11:18 [dsr]: Fabio asks if anyone from UCL is attending the Munich F2F.
10:11:41 [dsr]: Vivian: I will attend in person.
10:12:37 [dsr]: Joelle: the next difficult terms are Device and Platform. The meaning is very much dependent on the context.
10:14:27 [dsr]: There are plenty of attributes, e.g. screen size. A device is essentially something with a computer for our purposes.
10:15:11 [dsr]: Jaroslav: the term device is understood even if it is vague.
10:15:54 [dsr]: Joelle: right now a device is defined as a component of a platform. A platform is defined as a composition of hardware and software resources.
10:16:56 [dsr]: Platform is also an overloaded term with a meaning that varies.
10:17:27 [dsr]: Jaroslav: it may be better to focus on how a device is used rather than defining what it is.
10:17:33 [dsr]: Present: Jean
10:17:53 [dsr]: s/Present:/Present+/
10:18:31 [dsr]: Jean: a device is a hardware resource and as such is a component of a platform
10:19:06 [dsr]: It is interesting to refer to the Internet of Things where a device is a piece of hardware.
10:19:29 [dsr]: Paolo: we should be consistent with how device is used at W3C
10:20:55 [UCL]: http://www.w3.org/TR/di-gloss/
10:22:41 [dsr]: Joelle notes that a phone has many sensors. You don't interact with a sensor. A screen is an output device that you interact with by viewing the screen.
10:23:16 [dsr]: Jaroslav: a user needs to perceive a device in order to interact with it. A sensor is not perceivable and therefore is not a device
10:23:56 [dsr]: Joelle: if you don't like the current definition, please make a proposal
10:24:46 [dsr]: Paolo: I made a proposal 2 weeks ago (see the comments)
10:25:46 [dsr]: Paolo: An apparatus through which a user can perceive and interact with an interactive system.
10:26:40 [dsr]: Jaroslav: projected keyboards show that a device can be virtual
10:27:10 [dsr]: We used to have the term peripheral, but it has gone.
10:27:48 [dsr]: Joelle: no, it is still there
10:28:06 [dsr]: we need a notion of an input and output device
10:29:30 [dsr]: Joelle: I see that the definition of modality has completely changed, okay.
10:30:30 [dsr]: Agree with removing entries for input and output device.
10:32:31 [dsr]: Jean: the use of "physical" is misleading for the definition of peripheral, e.g. consider a projected keyboard
10:32:48 [dsr]: Paolo: okay, we can remove the word "physical"
10:33:35 [dsr]: Present+ Carmen
10:35:19 [dsr]: Fabio: we need to consider the level of abstraction, e.g. the iPhone 5 is a particular device, whereas a smart phone is a class of devices.
10:35:36 [dsr]: s/particular/particular kind of/
10:36:54 [dsr]: Joelle: there are two kinds of platforms, ones which cannot be composed and others which can
10:37:38 [dsr]: Jean: a multi device platform is a widely used term, and hence we should include that
10:38:57 [dsr]: Joelle: I think we need to work on this offline and come back for discussion.
10:41:08 [dsr]: Paolo cites the wikipedia definition
10:42:18 [dsr]: Joelle: a platform is a thing rather than a model of a thing
10:43:47 [dsr]: Paolo: but a platform is a model, that is the point...
10:45:11 [dsr]: Fabio asks Paolo for a proposal in time for next week's call. [he says okay]
10:45:54 [dsr]: Fabio: can we remove some of the terms, it is currently huge
10:45:58 [dsr]: Paolo: I agree
10:47:12 [dsr]: Joelle: browsability should be crossed (i.e. we should retain it)
10:50:40 [dsr]: Jaroslav argues for adding explorability
10:51:14 [dsr]: Joelle: don't think we really need it
10:51:38 [dsr]: Fabio: the point is to reduce the number of terms to a core set
10:54:17 [dsr]: Some discussion about "observability". Jaroslav suggests a simpler definition would be clearer to the target audience
10:59:48 [dsr]: rrsagent, set logs public
11:00:11 [dsr]: we run out of time for discussions ...
11:00:30 [Zakim]: -??P5
11:00:31 [Zakim]: - +33.4.76.51.aaaa
11:00:31 [Zakim]: -[IPcaller.a]
11:00:33 [Zakim]: - +30231125aacc
11:00:33 [Zakim]: -Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
11:00:35 [dsr]: Fabio: we have some more work to do, and can deal with subtle issues when we are face to face.
11:00:36 [Zakim]: -??P4
11:00:37 [Zakim]: - +39.050.621.aabb
11:00:39 [Zakim]: -Dsr
11:00:43 [dsr]: Until next week's call!
11:00:53 [dsr]: rrsagent, make minutes
11:00:53 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/14-mbui-minutes.html dsr
11:05:39 [Zakim]: disconnecting the lone participant, ??P1, in UW_MBUI()6:00AM
11:05:41 [Zakim]: UW_MBUI()6:00AM has ended
11:05:41 [Zakim]: Attendees were +33.4.76.51.aaaa, Dsr, [IPcaller], Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, +39.050.621.aabb, +30231125aacc
11:40:53 [UCL]: UCL has left #mbui
12:54:09 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #mbui