20:40:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:40:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/12-indie-ui-irc
20:40:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:40:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:40:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:40:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
20:40:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:40:58 <trackbot> Date: 12 June 2013
20:41:14 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
20:41:14 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
20:41:14 <janina> agenda+ TPAC2013 https://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/
20:41:14 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Update [See Below]
20:41:14 <janina> agenda+ Coordination with other WAI WGs
20:41:17 <janina> agenda+ Requirement gathering for User Contexts: next steps http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0022.html
20:41:20 <janina> agenda+ User Contexts: identifying  AT [See Below]
20:41:22 <janina> agenda+ Spec Progress for Events vs User Context http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0041.html
20:41:25 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:41:28 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:41:31 <janina> agenda+ Renaming POR: Open Discussion
20:41:34 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 26 June at 21:00Z)
20:41:36 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
20:41:47 <janina>  zakim, save agenda
20:41:53 <Zakim> ok, janina, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/12-indie-ui-agenda.rdf
20:46:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
20:54:47 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:55:12 <janina> trackbot, start meeting
20:55:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:55:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:55:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:55:16 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM already started
20:55:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:55:17 <trackbot> Date: 12 June 2013
20:55:25 <janina> zakim, agenda?
20:55:25 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
20:55:45 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:55:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0
20:55:55 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is Janina_Sajka
20:55:55 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
20:56:22 <Zakim> +Rich
20:56:29 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
20:56:29 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
20:56:29 <janina> agenda+ TPAC2013 https://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/
20:56:29 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Update [See Below]
20:56:29 <janina> agenda+ Coordination with other WAI WGs
20:56:31 <janina> agenda+ Requirement gathering for User Contexts: next steps http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0022.html
20:56:34 <janina> agenda+ User Contexts: identifying  AT [See Below]
20:56:37 <janina> agenda+ Spec Progress for Events vs User Context http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0041.html
20:56:40 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:56:43 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:56:46 <janina> agenda+ Renaming POR: Open Discussion
20:56:48 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 26 June at 21:00Z)
20:56:51 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
20:59:13 <Zakim> +??P2
20:59:51 <andy> andy has joined #indie-ui
20:59:59 <jasonjgw> jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
21:00:29 <Zakim> + +1.412.624.aaaa
21:00:41 <Zakim> +??P4
21:01:27 <rich> rich has joined #indie-ui
21:01:28 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Rich_Simpson
21:01:28 <Zakim> +Rich_Simpson; got it
21:01:32 <Zakim> +??P5
21:01:32 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P4 is Jason_White
21:01:33 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
21:01:44 <andy> p5=andy I think
21:01:45 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P5 is Andy_Heath
21:01:45 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
21:02:07 <MichaelC> zakim, who is noisy?
21:02:18 <Zakim> MichaelC, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Janina_Sajka (72%), Rich (4%), Rich_Simpson (45%)
21:03:22 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:03:33 <MichaelC> scribe: rich
21:03:34 <janina>  zakim, agenda
21:03:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', janina
21:03:38 <MichaelC> agenda?
21:03:47 <janina> zakim, agenda?
21:03:47 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda:
21:03:48 <Zakim> 1. TPAC2013 https://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/ [from janina]
21:03:48 <Zakim> 2. Editor's Update [from See Below via janina]
21:03:48 <Zakim> 3. Coordination with other WAI WGs [from janina]
21:03:48 <Zakim> 4. Requirement gathering for User Contexts: next steps http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0022.html [from janina]
21:03:49 <Zakim> 5. User Contexts: identifying  AT [from See Below via janina]
21:03:50 <Zakim> 6. Spec Progress for Events vs User Context http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0041.html [from janina]
21:03:50 <Zakim> 7. User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3 [from janina]
21:03:50 <Zakim> 8. Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2 [from janina]
21:03:50 <Zakim> 9. Renaming POR: Open Discussion [from janina]
21:03:51 <Zakim> 10. Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 26 June at 21:00Z) [from janina]
21:03:53 <Zakim> 11. Be Done [from janina]
21:04:02 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
21:04:02 <Zakim> agendum 1. "TPAC2013 https://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/" taken up [from janina]
21:04:52 <rich> No news on TPAC2013. Should be news by next meeting.
21:04:54 <janina> zakim, take up item 2
21:04:54 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Editor's Update" taken up [from See Below via janina]
21:05:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/12-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
21:06:06 <janina> zakim, take up item 3
21:06:06 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Coordination with other WAI WGs" taken up [from janina]
21:06:07 <rich> No discussion on editor's email
21:06:17 <MichaelC> regrets: James_Craig, Ted_O´Connor
21:07:42 <andy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2013/user-modeling/
21:07:59 <andy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/User_modeling
21:08:55 <rich> Research WAI group document about user requirements
21:08:56 <rich> What kind of view should we be taking towards their work (re: user context module)
21:09:19 <andy> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2013AprJun/0230
21:09:20 <andy> [2] http://www.w3.org/WAI/#x20130515a
21:09:21 <andy> [3] http://www.w3.org/News/2013#entry-9823
21:09:22 <andy> [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Distribution_Table_for_UM4A
21:09:22 <rich> Andy: They have a symposium on user adaptation but failed to contact us
21:10:38 <rich> Andy: Should we get on their distribution list?
21:10:38 <rich> Janina: List is open, you're welcome to join it
21:10:39 <rich> Andy: Will attend symposium, but they should know about what we're doing
21:10:40 <rich> Janina: They are aware via WAI coordination group
21:12:19 <rich> Andy: Bigger issue is other groups beyond Research WAI who will be involved in symposium
21:12:20 <rich> Janina: Two issues - 1. They need to cast a wider net for participation; 2. What impact does their work have on what we're doing?
21:13:12 <rich> Janina: They do research, not specifications, so there is limited overlap with current standardization work
21:14:16 <rich> Michael: We could add to their wiki of things to work on.
21:14:48 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Research_Topics
21:16:52 <rich> Andy: We want to avoid fragmented/competing solutions
21:17:31 <rich> Michael: You can listen in to symposium even if you're not presenting
21:20:37 <janina> zakim, next item
21:20:37 <Zakim> agendum 1. "TPAC2013 https://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/" taken up [from janina]
21:20:47 <janina> zakim, close item 1
21:20:47 <Zakim> agendum 1, TPAC2013 https://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/, closed
21:20:48 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:20:48 <Zakim> 2. Editor's Update [from See Below via janina]
21:20:54 <janina> zakim, take up item 4
21:20:54 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Requirement gathering for User Contexts: next steps http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0022.html" taken up [from janina]
21:22:06 <rich> Jason: updated revisions to requirements document. we're in the collecting phase, we're not excluding anything right now
21:23:34 <rich> Jason: document needs to find a home (probably a wiki). what's the next step? wait for more comments? discuss at future meeting to establish exclusion criteria?
21:28:03 <rich> Consensus is we need input beyond our group on some things (e.g., privacy) before we start cutting things
21:34:04 <rich> Michael and Jason will work on mechanics of wiki
21:34:16 <janina> zakim, take up item 5
21:34:16 <Zakim> agendum 5. "User Contexts: identifying  AT" taken up [from See Below via janina]
21:35:36 <MichaelC> q+ to suggest pros / cons of various engineering proposals
21:36:13 <MichaelC> q+ to say and then take to stakeholders including the Privacy IG, will mean describing the full issue carefully
21:37:05 <andy> q+
21:37:19 <MichaelC> q+ to say probably we want a minimalist approach that meets use cases
21:37:41 <MichaelC> q+ to say we should look at how similar types of situations (e.g., location) are well or badly solved
21:37:45 <rich> Michael: number of people are concerned about disclosing AT being used, even with privacy controls. wants to see use cases for that information. it's not clear what the legitimate use cases, benefits and drawbacks would be for that information.
21:37:48 <janina> ack m
21:37:48 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to suggest pros / cons of various engineering proposals and to say and then take to stakeholders including the Privacy IG, will mean describing the full issue
21:37:51 <Zakim> ... carefully and to say probably we want a minimalist approach that meets use cases and to say we should look at how similar types of situations (e.g., location) are well or badly
21:37:51 <Zakim> ... solved
21:38:09 <MichaelC> s/Michael:/Jason:/
21:39:18 <janina> q+ to ask whetehr we should agree on the approach we want before we ask the wider community?
21:39:28 <andy> q-
21:41:42 <rich> Andy: wants clarification on what kinds of devices are in our scope (mobile, desktop...)
21:41:42 <rich> Michael: scope is deliberately not restricted. initial focus is mobile devices but that's not our limit.
21:43:28 <MichaelC> q+ to say if we think privacy is controversial, we might want to provide a couple well-formed alternate options for stakeholders to consider
21:43:32 <MichaelC> ack jan
21:43:32 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask whetehr we should agree on the approach we want before we ask the wider community?
21:43:45 <smaug> smaug has joined #indie-ui
21:43:50 <andy> janina - if we can agree on
21:44:02 <rich> Janina: we should hash out an engineering approach internally before going to wider community. that would get us better feedback than a more amorphous proposal
21:44:02 <janina> ack jan
21:44:05 <janina> ack jas
21:46:19 <MichaelC> ack me
21:46:19 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say if we think privacy is controversial, we might want to provide a couple well-formed alternate options for stakeholders to consider
21:46:58 <andy> q+
21:47:06 <janina> ack a
21:47:59 <andy> q+
21:49:18 <janina> ack a
21:49:29 <rich> I need to hop off the call soon
21:50:11 <MichaelC> s/I need to hop off the call soon//
21:50:40 <MichaelC> scribe: jasonjgw
21:50:47 <janina> zakim, tak up item 6
21:50:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'tak up item 6', janina
21:50:55 <janina> zakim, take up item 6
21:50:55 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Spec Progress for Events vs User Context http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0041.html" taken up [from janina]
21:51:42 <Zakim> -Rich_Simpson
21:52:19 <MichaelC> q+ to say I would like to see a FPWD of user context, then go back to events
21:53:21 <jasonjgw> Rich elucidates his comments to the list regarding an immediate need for IndieUI Events in mobile environments and there should be a strategy of completing Events first, potentially with smaller releases with incremental updates.
21:53:33 <MichaelC> ack me
21:53:33 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say I would like to see a FPWD of user context, then go back to events
21:53:33 <janina> ack m
21:53:59 <jasonjgw> Michael acknowledges the desire for the faster timeline but maintains the need for a first public working draft of User Contexts.
21:55:48 <jasonjgw> Janina clarifies that we need to establish what work remains to be done regarding Events.
21:56:07 <jasonjgw> There is discussion of possibly releasing a further working draft based on the current editor's draft.
21:56:45 <jasonjgw> Rich highlights the pragmatic needs arising in mobile environments and the importance of making progress on this (while still working on User Contexts).
21:57:48 <jasonjgw> Janina echos this and acknowledges the unexpected difficulties of User Contexts, which affected the time-line (first draft of User Contexts was originally scheduled for early in the year, shortly after Events).
21:58:19 <jasonjgw> Michael notes that the Events requirements need to be further elucidated.
21:58:42 <jasonjgw> Janina proposes we look at remaining actions to see how far we are from Last Call.
21:59:08 <jasonjgw> Michael notes the necessity of a further public working draft prior to any discussion of Last Call.
22:00:05 <MichaelC> q+ to talk about testing
22:00:50 <jasonjgw> Rich notes difficulties in mobile environments (a lack of key events for instance), as the motivation for accelerating progress on the Events module.
22:00:50 <MichaelC> ack me
22:00:50 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to talk about testing
22:01:38 <jasonjgw> Michael highlights the importance of testing and the need to carry it out prior to Last Call, as Aria experience demonstrates. We need to develop a test plan expeditiously.
22:01:51 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:02:02 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
22:02:03 <Zakim> -Rich
22:02:08 <jasonjgw> zakim, list participants
22:02:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Janina_Sajka, Rich, Michael_Cooper, +1.412.624.aaaa, Rich_Simpson, Jason_White, Andy_Heath
22:02:24 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, make minutes
22:02:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/12-indie-ui-minutes.html jasonjgw
22:03:46 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
22:03:47 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:03:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Janina_Sajka, Rich, Michael_Cooper, +1.412.624.aaaa, Rich_Simpson, Jason_White, Andy_Heath